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Death Grip hysteria may end Monday with iOS 4.01 - Page 11

post #401 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Wow! So you're still saying that 5 bars equates to the maximum Decibel level one can achieve on the device and not simply a more powerful signal than less bars. Fricken amazing!

Pro Tip: You could get some respect by letting go your hubris and simply staing...

"My bad,

Park Seward. I was looking at it in a completely diffferent way. You're right, there is no way to tell what full strength is based on the bars shown, all we deduce is 5 bars represents a more powerful signal than less than 5 bars." Instead you're just reinforce what everyone already thinks about you. If you can't admit being wrong online how can you do it in your every day life. Not good, g3pro, not good.

If we all live in bizarro world, then yes, 1 bar is better for signal strength than 5 bars.

Hey solipsism, you are the one who is wrong about claiming 1 bar is better than 5 bars for signal strength. You are a hypocrite.
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post #402 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by thespaz View Post

I said this earlier... it also depends on where you are. In my home area, I can reproduce the problem with covering the antenna gap, but at my parents house, I can cover the gap all day long and still get a perfectly good signal and fast loading web pages.

Also, in Portland Maine, I saw no issues with covering the antenna.

Both were done with 3G on and Wifi off.

Maybe the people who aren't having the problem do not have "flawless" phones, but instead live in an area that is like my parent's area.

There is definitely something weird going on, but I think it may be possible to fix with a software update. Perhaps there's an integer screwed up somewhere that is telling the phone to do what it shouldn't be. I'm not a software engineer, so I'm only making guesses here. I'm also not saying that my results are the definitive answer either. It's just an observation.

Has anyone else experienced this on their iPhone 4?

That looks more and more like a TriQuint chip issue if it really is just a 3G issue and with a certain operating band or bands.

I can't verify what operating bands I was on these last couple days or other specific information relative to a tower, but I have traveled quite a bit in my area (even going into areas with GPRS of all things) that I think it's likely I have moved into 3G spectrum that is causing yours and other people's issues.

For that reason, I would have the device replaced. Production issues are not uncommon with CE or any other mass produced item but that doesn't mean you have to deal with the issues.


PS: While I doubt it, perhaps the Chicken Littles can now cool it with it being a devastating design flaw.
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post #403 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

And how do we know he's not an android fan faking the results? It's youtube, not a reputable source.

Oh give me a break.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #404 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillin View Post

Ah, yes, I thank you, I see it now. The iPhone 4 is not defective. It merely has inferior reception. Well, I see now why everyone is pissed off at Apple.

You need help.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #405 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

If we all live in bizarro world, then yes, 1 bar is better for signal strength than 5 bars.

Hey solipsism, you are the one who is wrong about claiming 1 bar is better than 5 bars for signal strength. You are a hypocrite.

It's like you don't even realize there is a history of everything we've written.

Your comment...
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

... you don't need to be under a tower to know you have full strength on the phone. That's what 5 bars means on an iPhone 4...

His reply which you didn't understand...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Park Seward View Post

From the iPhone manual, "The more bars, the stronger the signal."

Where did you read that five bars means "full strength"?

So, asking Park Seward's question yet again, where did you read that 5 bars means full strength? Do I really need to post every signal time you've tried to backpedal out of your comment?
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post #406 of 604
The science of this is fairly easy to understand. When you touch a naked antenna you change its impedance (its natural resistance to the flow of electrons) and resonant frequency (think tuning fork). This can have unpredictable results. This is why almost all consumer electronics have insulated antennas. The insulation protects the tuning of the antenna. In some radio systems, under specific conditions touching the antenna can cause the radio to stop working completely and can even eventually damage the receiver.

Apple just made things a little difficult for themselves by designing an antenna that you normally touch.

In the case of the iPhone 4, the gradual drop in signal can be explained by the digital tuners inability, (through reasons of hardware or software) to correctly adjust to the change caused by making physical contact with a particular part of the antenna.

When you touch an antenna, you create a shift in impedance at the point of contact. This creates standing waves. Think of a river rapid where the river changes in shape. large, permanent waves can form around boulders or anything else that resists the flow of water. Your finger has a different resistance than the antenna on the iPhone, therefore it creates a point of electrical resistance where standing waves can form, and this can seriously mess with the iPhones tuning.

Basically, these standing waves cause electrical energy to be reflected back into the transmitter, and prevent electrical energy from reaching the receiver. This also changes the resonant frequency of the antenna and causes a slight shift in tuning.

Radios tune by filtering out all other frequencies. iPhones are designed to work on several frequencies (850, 900, 1800, 1900, 2100) MHz. Touching the antenna will affect it differently at different frequencies which explains why some people see the problem go away when disabling 3g or when they can't replicate the problem at all.

Different people will have different electrical properties so the problem may affect some more than others. Another factor is the iPhone itself. No two objects are the same. A slight difference in the antenna's natural resonance and impedance could explain why some phones are affected more than others.
post #407 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

His reply which you didn't understand...

So, asking Park Seward's question yet again, where did you read that 5 bars means full strength?

Let me spell it out for you.

1) More bars means stronger signal (more signal strength)

2) 2 bars is more than 1 bar. 3 is more than 2 or 1. 4 is more than 3 or 2 or 1. 5 is more than 4 or 3 or 2 or 1.

3) There is a maximum display of 5 bars. There is no 6th bar. Or 7th or 8th or 9th or 10th bar. It stops at 5 bars.

4) There is a minimum display of zero bars. There is no negative 1 bar or negative 2 bars, etc.

5) Maximum is the point at which the number is greatest. Minimum is the point at which the number is least.



Ergo, the maximum signal strength displayed on the iPhone is 5 bars.

This is a definition. This is self-evident. This is so plainly simple.

Do you understand what is written above?
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post #408 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brawnr View Post

If you search for "iPhone 4" in Google News search the first article I get is from the Daily Mail in the UK.

It leads to a dead link but the preview in Google says this...

Apple iPhone 4 may be recalled, says Steve Jobs
Daily Mail - 4 hours ago
The much-vaunted new iPhone 4 may be recalled, Apple boss Steve Jobs revealed last night. Posting a message on the social networking site ...

We need links please.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #409 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBR View Post

No, I don't think Apple is going to do anything about it. They have a long history of not doing anything about defective devices...

...Apple has a long history of (mis)behaving this way.

Sorry. If I am proven wrong, please remind me. Nothing would please me more.

If your assessment was correct, Apple wouldn't consistently for several years now lead all computer manufacturers for customer service in things like Consumer Reports. The surveys don't lie. It's not even close.

Not to mention, I've had a few issues over the years and never had anything close to a lack of response. In fact, a close friend of mine had a Macbook that was 6 months out of warranty but started having issues with the screen going dim. I looked up and found that others with her model had some similar issues, so she called Apple. Even though there wasn't a recall and she was well out of the warranty period, they sent her a prepaid postage box, she shipped it back to them and a week later they returned the laptop to her fixed. The logic board was bad and they replaced it for her free.

So no, Apple does not have a "long history of behaving this way."
post #410 of 604
Interesting, I just did a little experiment with my 3GS.

When I handle the phone without my case on (incase slider) the signal strength drops 2-3 bars quite quickly. But if i pick it up exactly the same with the case on its unaffected. The results were 100% repeatable.

Very interesting... Even touching the bezel on the 3GS has such a dramatic effect. Clearly, Apple isn't insulating their antennas properly. This could explain a lot of the issues people are having with iPhone reception in general. By using lots of metal and glass parts in the construction of their phones, Apple's phones clearly have different characteristics when compared to other plastic phones.

It makes perfect sense because they field test their phones with protective cases on to hide their appearance. This would have the unintended consequence of insulating the antenna and protecting it from things like standing waves and other tuning/impedance issues. They probably have no real world data for this because they never test their phones naked.
post #411 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Let me spell it out for you.

1) More bars means stronger signal (more signal strength)

2) 2 bars is more than 1 bar. 3 is more than 2 or 1. 4 is more than 3 or 2 or 1. 5 is more than 4 or 3 or 2 or 1.

3) There is a maximum display of 5 bars. There is no 6th bar. Or 7th or 8th or 9th or 10th bar. It stops at 5 bars.

4) There is a minimum display of zero bars. There is no negative 1 bar or negative 2 bars, etc.

5) Maximum is the point at which the number is greatest. Minimum is the point at which the number is least.

Ergo, the maximum signal strength displayed on the iPhone is 5 bars.

This is a definition. This is self-evident. This is so plainly simple.

Do you understand what is written above?

You're almost there. Now show us where Park Seward is wrong and where 5 bars, as you stated, means full strength instead of merely stronger than x or for once admit you made a mistake.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

We need links please.

If there is a recall or SW fix will you man up admit there is no design flaw and that you been acting like a bunny these last few days. It would be at least a little understandable if you actually waited in lines for hours hut to receive a dud unit, bit you don't even own one. Have you even seen one in person yet?
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post #412 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You're almost there. Now show us where Park Seward is wrong and where 5 bars, as you stated, means full strength instead of merely stronger than x or for once admit you made a mistake.

You didn't read it if you're asking that question.

5 bars is MAXIMUM STRENGTH aka FULL STRENGTH aka THE BEST RELATIVE STRENGTH FOR THE PHONE.



This is not difficult to understand.
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post #413 of 604
Not sure if this had been made clear, the bars don't seem to be linked to the quality of the call. I was all caught up on the bars meaning something, but in the end they are just a representation of what is going on in the phone, which might be a faulty indication.

To test, I made a series of calls and triggered the bar loss effect with my finger. In all of the trials, the call quality did not reduce any noticeable amount.

Based on this, I suspect that if the phone is adapting to a new signal configuration, that the signal strength bar might not be switching to the new configuration. (Guessing here). If this turns out to be true, this might be a software issue after all.

Now, I am having the proximity sensor issue as well, sure there will be a thread on this soon as well.

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/...ning-properly/
post #414 of 604
I'm convinced its a design flaw, one that effects previous iPhone models as well. After doing a little research its quite clear what happening.

Apple can use a software fix to try an improve the phone's tuning and hide the problem a little bit but they can't change the laws of physics. When you touch a naked antenna it screws with the reception. This is a universally understood concept and thats why antennas are usually insulated.
post #415 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

Not sure if this had been made clear, the bars don't seem to be linked to the quality of the call. I was all caught up on the bars meaning something, but in the end they are just a representation of what is going on in the phone, which might be a faulty indication.

To test, I made a series of calls and triggered the bar loss effect with my finger. In all of the trials, the call quality did not reduce any noticeable amount.

Based on this, I suspect that if the phone is adapting to a new signal configuration, that the signal strength bar might not be switching to the new configuration. (Guessing here). If this turns out to be true, this might be a software issue after all.

Now, I am having the proximity sensor issue as well, sure there will be a thread on this soon as well.

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/...ning-properly/

The signal is digital. This means that the call quality will not change, as long as there is enough gain. The only time the call quality will change is when touching the antenna has a strong enough effect that the gain will drop below acceptable levels.
post #416 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDBLACK View Post

Interesting, I just did a little experiment with my 3GS.

When I handle the phone without my case on (incase slider) the signal strength drops 2-3 bars quite quickly. But if i pick it up exactly the same with the case on its unaffected. The results were 100% repeatable.

Very interesting... Even touching the bezel on the 3GS has such a dramatic effect. Clearly, Apple isn't insulating their antennas properly. This could explain a lot of the issues people are having with iPhone reception in general. By using lots of metal and glass parts in the construction of their phones, Apple's phones clearly have different characteristics when compared to other plastic phones.

All this is reasonable.

Quote:
It makes perfect sense because they field test their phones with protective cases on to hide their appearance. This would have the unintended consequence of insulating the antenna and protecting it from things like standing waves and other tuning/impedance issues. They probably have no real world data for this because they never test their phones naked.

This, not so much. Because a phone was found with a case on it is no indication that every iPhone was tested with a case on it. If it's an insulation issue then wouldn't this affect anything that uses the antenna? If it's a design flaw as you imply it would then affect every iPhone 4 since insulation won't change between signal strength and operating bands.

Even if a variance doesn't cause a 5 bar to No Service drop you'd expect some noticeable attenuation do to this antenna insulation design flaw. There appears to be none so your theory doesn't seem likely to me.

You've ignored everyone using the phone at Cupertino without a casing or in a vehicle around parts of the state or country under the watchful eye of Apple employees before giving them to trusted personnel in a more general real world test to vet SW bugs. You've also discounted every single engineer working on the design to not understand a damn thing about how RF works. Does any of that really seem likely?

How about a production issue affecting only a subset of the units sold? Does that seem at all possible?
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post #417 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

All this is reasonable.


This, not so much. Because a phone was found with a case on it is no indication that every iPhone was tested with a case on it. If it's an insulation issue then wouldn't this affect anything that uses the antenna? If it's a design flaw as you imply it would then affect every iPhone 4 since insulation won't change between signal strength and operating bands.

Even if a variance doesn't cause a 5 bar to No Service drop you'd expect some noticeable attenuation do to this antenna insulation design flaw. There appears to be none so your theory doesn't seem likely to me.

You've ignored everyone using the phone at Cupertino without a casing or in a vehicle around parts of the state or country under the watchful eye of Apple employees before giving them to trusted personnel in a more general real world test to vet SW bugs. You've also discounted every single engineer working on the design to not understand a damn thing about how RF works. Does any of that really seem likely?

How about a production issue affecting only a subset of the units sold? Does that seem at all possible?

No it would not effect all phones, because no two antennas would be identical, therefore the effect of touching it would vary from phone to phone. Also, the signal at apple's campus could be very strong, which would make the effect less noticeable. Also, I simply implied that the use of protective cases would be an issue during apple's testing, because Apple likely would not let a naked iPhone out into the wild because of the attention it would attract. The one iPhone 4 that was discovered in the wild had a protective case. Im sure there is a reason and policy for this.
post #418 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

You didn't read it if you're asking that question.

5 bars is MAXIMUM STRENGTH aka FULL STRENGTH aka THE BEST RELATIVE STRENGTH FOR THE PHONE.



This is not difficult to understand.

Okay, I've been watching you spew on and on about how 5 bars equals maximum strength.

According to you... if the phone drops by one bar, the signal drops by 20%? I doubt it.

I think that the tallest bar on the iPhone could mean anywhere between 81%-100% of a signal.

0 bars = 0%
1 bar = 1%-20%
2 bars = 21%-40%
3 bars = 41%-60%
4 bars = 61%-80%
5 bars = 81%-100%

You see... 5 bars could mean only an 81% signal.

For a similar test, turn off the battery percentage meter on your iPhone. Do you really think that you're at 100% until the first row of pixels is missing? Going from 100% to 90%?... no, it doesn't. It goes from 100, 99, 98, 97, 96, 95, 94, 93, 92, and 91 first and at 90%, the first pixel is removed.

That's what we're trying to say. 5 bars does not mean MAXIMUM signal. It just means that the signal is within the 81%-100% threshold.
post #419 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDBLACK View Post

No it would not effect all phones, because no two antennas would be identical, therefore the effect of touching it would vary from phone to phone. Also, the signal at apple's campus could be very strong, which would make the effect less noticeable. Also, I simply implied that the use of protective cases would be an issue during apple's testing, because Apple likely would not let a naked iPhone out into the wild because of the attention it would attract. The one iPhone 4 that was discovered in the wild had a protective case. Im sure there is a reason and policy for this.

Nothing is truly identical but I think a CNC milled frame is about close as you can get for CE.

I think the premise that no iPhone 4 was ever out of the 3GS casing is shortsighted, at best. Besides the fact that thd lost phone was found well after thd design process was compketed, do you honestly think all iPhone 4s were tested in bars? Do you not think that perhaps they could be tested in the real world but still in relative isolation like driving California's highways where they could test it along a wide range of conditions without using a case because it would not be their personal phone for testing? it seems unlikely to me that they wouldn't do this.
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post #420 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDBLACK View Post

I'm convinced its a design flaw, one that effects previous iPhone models as well. After doing a little research its quite clear what happening.

Apple can use a software fix to try an improve the phone's tuning and hide the problem a little bit but they can't change the laws of physics. When you touch a naked antenna it screws with the reception. This is a universally understood concept and thats why antennas are usually insulated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDBLACK View Post

Another factor is the iPhone itself. No two objects are the same. A slight difference in the antenna's natural resonance and impedance could explain why some phones are affected more than others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Nothing is truly identical but I think a CNC milled frame is about close as you can get for CE.

Apple said they made "an entirely new alloy" or something like that for the steel-alloy frame. While the machining may be precise, could there be some variability in alloy composition, however small, that causes some variability in signal reception across different phones.

It looks like Apple was doing a lot of new things here, from the design, to the alloy, to the software, etc. They've taken big, big risks in making the next great iPhone.

At the end of the day, is there a design flaw? Or simply dud phones where the alloy/ coating/ whatever is out of regular specification? We'll see.
post #421 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by thespaz View Post

Okay, I've been watching you spew on and on about how 5 bars equals maximum strength.

According to you... if the phone drops by one bar, the signal drops by 20%? I doubt it.

I think that the tallest bar on the iPhone could mean anywhere between 81%-100% of a signal.

0 bars = 0%
1 bar = 1%-20%
2 bars = 21%-40%
3 bars = 41%-60%
4 bars = 61%-80%
5 bars = 81%-100%

You see... 5 bars could mean only an 81% signal.

For a similar test, turn off the battery percentage meter on your iPhone. Do you really think that you're at 100% until the first row of pixels is missing? Going from 100% to 90%?... no, it doesn't. It goes from 100, 99, 98, 97, 96, 95, 94, 93, 92, and 91 first and at 90%, the first pixel is removed.

That's what we're trying to say. 5 bars does not mean MAXIMUM signal. It just means that the signal is within the 81%-100% threshold.


I know that's what you're trying to say, but the fact remains that the battery indicator will show MORE battery available for use when there are MORE pixels in the battery meter. With signal, there is no gradation between 100% and 99% since they are both 5 bars. However, there is a definite difference between 5 bars and 4 bars as represented on the iPhone 4 just as there is a definite difference between 500 battery pixels versus 450 battery pixels.


Getting back to the original point, the people who are losing their signal on their iPhone 4 do so from 5 bars which represents the maximum signal strength REPRESENTED by the phone. You can't say that it's not the maximum strength, because you do not know what the maximum strength is apart from the fact that it is at 5 bars which is the graphical representation of maximum strength.


It would be understandable if they were at 2 bars, or 3 bars, or 4 bars and posters like you and solipsism would say that signal attenuation to zero bars is understandable because the strength is sub-maximum. However, with the bars fully at 5 going completely to 0 bars indicates a more serious problem involved than the typical attenuation predicted.


You can get all hot and bothered about how you can be at 5 bars and sit under a tower which is better strength than being at 5 bars and being 100 meters away from a tower and still at 5 bars, but is that really much of a difference when it comes to touching an antenna and making the signal decrease from 5 bars to 0 bars?

You can not have a very weak signal starting out and still be at 5 bars as a way of explaining away Apple's signal problem.
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post #422 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by thespaz View Post

Okay, I've been watching you spew on and on about how 5 bars equals maximum strength.

You see... 5 bars could mean only an 81% signal.

For a similar test, turn off the battery percentage meter on your iPhone. Do you really think that you're at 100% until the first row of pixels is missing? Going from 100% to 90%?... no, it doesn't. It goes from 100, 99, 98, 97, 96, 95, 94, 93, 92, and 91 first and at 90%, the first pixel is removed.

That's what we're trying to say. 5 bars does not mean MAXIMUM signal. It just means that the signal is within the 81%-100% threshold.

It all depends on the operating level that is set by the phone manufacturer. For example, if 5 bars only means full strength, I would have to climb on a cell tower and hold the phone next to an antenna to get 5 bars. The RF level drops in half as you double the distance.

The five bars may mean a rating of bit error rate (BER). That is, no errors in the signal give you five bars. It may not be a rating of signal strength at all. As the correctible errors increase, the bars go down.

In radio transmissions, the term "five by five" means perfect transmission. It is a signal quality rating. You can hear and the other person can hear you correctly. So the five bars may mean that transmission is working properly and has no discernible errors.

If it is just showing RF strength then it would show a more rapid change when you short the antenna. But it seems that is takes time to lower the bars. Perhaps the phone is making calculations on the error rate and that is why it slowly goes down. And remember that in digital transmission, you can correct errors until they get so large that you start hearing glitches and the phone can no longer keep the connection.

Sometimes in electronics (and in life) the obvious is not necessarily true. Just because five bars light up, you can't assume what it is showing if you don't know the circuitry and the algorithms.

But then, they may be no more than eye candy,

"They don't mean much of anything, it turns out.

I don't know what they're displaying for GSM, but probably what they're displaying is the signal strength. For CDMA (which is what I know about) that's what they display, but in CDMA the signal strength is highly deceptive because it doesn't inform you of what the noise floor is.

The technical term is "EC/I0" (pronounced "ee-see-over-eye-naught") and it refers to the amount of the signal which is usable. In CDMA you can have strong signal (4 bars) and lousy EC/I0 and not be able to carry a call, and you can have low signal (zero bars) and excellent EC/I0 and carry a call fine. But they can't display EC/I0 because it fluctuates wildly (it could go from zero to four bars and back to zero again in just a few seconds) and would terrify users, so they display the signal strength, which at least has the virtue of being stable, though it doesn't really mean much.

Even worse... there is no industry standard for what "one bar" or "two bars" means. None. Everyone just sort of sets some thresholds, and even from the same manufacturer it can change from phone model to phone model.

Extrapolating from my CDMA experience, I would guess that in GSM they're displaying the signal strength of the paging channel, with an uncalibrated display not driven by industry standards."


http://ask.metafilter.com/60227/What...tion-bars-mean
post #423 of 604
Whoops, looks like fake Steve Jobs says Apple is going to recall the iPhone 4.
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post #424 of 604
.....
post #425 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

If there is a recall or SW fix will you man up admit there is no design flaw and that you been acting like a bunny these last few days.

The definition of a recall is a design flaw. Acting like a bunny? You so crazy.

A software fix is different. If you look back at what I said I've stated a few times that it doesn't look like something that's software fixable, and I doubt it'll come out Monday or Tuesday, but if it does then I won't complain. I have made comments along these lines already, but you have skimmed over them, haven't you?

That all said, it doesn't change that Steve told someone to hold their phone differently, or buy a case to cover the problem, and that it's a non issue. Steve didn't instead say to that guy, a software fix is coming. And the only proof we have that it is is this mysteriously disappearing here-say thread article from AI itself. Written by none other than "The Prince". Color me cautious. And Apple's statement to Walt about a software fix was about the cosmetic bar-signal display bug, not the other tangible, reproducible, speed-reducing, call-dropping issue.

The question is: what are you going to say if Apple does admit there's an issue, after you stating there wasn't. I don't expect anything.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #426 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

At the end of the day, is there a design flaw? Or simply dud phones where the alloy/ coating/ whatever is out of regular specification? We'll see.

Yeah, but that would be reasonable, and would negate the ability to call lots of people trolls.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #427 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walney View Post

One of the criticisms voiced throughout many of the posts is that we don't know if it's a design flaw or just a small issue caused by manufacturing variability.

Macrumors has organised a poll: http://polldaddy.com/poll/3395888/?view=results

From this it would appear that over 50% of respondents have seen the issue.

73% actually.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #428 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Whoops, looks like fake Steve Jobs says Apple is going to recall the iPhone 4.

Source? Or just BS?
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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post #429 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

The definition of a recall is a design flaw. Acting like a bunny? You so crazy.

It only means there is an issue with a device. A recall doesn't mean the design is flawed, only the finished product. If less than 100% of iPhone 4s are recalled or they issue a protective Bumper for every iPhone 4 because the exposed antenna is a faulty concept then it's a production issue, not a design issue. Understanding the differences and admitting you overacted would go a long way.

Quote:
The question is: what are you going to say if Apple does admit there's an issue, after you stating there wasn't. I don't expect anything.

Perhaps you should comprehend what you read instead of getting emotional over the trivial. I've stated from the start that there will be issues with the iPhone 4 and with all mass produced CE. Regardless of the quality control, the fact that there is quality control means there is an inherent level of potential issues that can and will arise from time to time. That is life, deal with it.

I even stated an anecdote, from the get go, about a friend who received an iPhone 4 that was DOA and asked you if that means that all iPhone 4s are therefore DOA to show you the logical fallacy of your implication that all iPhone 4s were having signal issues because some were. HE returned it to the store, they gave him a new one, they made sure it worked in the store (even testing FaceTime) and he hasn't had an issue sense. That's how a reasonable person should deal with a faulty product.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #430 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Source? Or just BS?

http://twitter.com/ceoSteveJobs/status/17124017895
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #431 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Yeah, but that would be reasonable, and would negate the ability to call lots of people trolls.

Regardless of the outcome, you were (paste tense) still trolling here for couple days.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #432 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It only means there is an issue with a device. A recall doesn't mean the design is flawed, only the finished product.

If could mean either one, actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

If less than 100% of iPhone 4s are recalled or they issue a protective Bumper for every iPhone 4 because the exposed antenna is a faulty concept then it's a production issue, not a design issue.

Faulty concept? Are you actually mad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Understanding the differences and admitting you overacted would go a long way.

Yes, and we're all simply trolls, right?
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #433 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

erhaps you should comprehend what you read instead of getting emotional over the trivial. I've stated from the start that there will be issues with the iPhone 4 and with all mass produced CE. Regardless of the quality control, the fact that there is quality control means there is an inherent level of potential issues that can and will arise from time to time. That is life, deal with it.

I'm not talking about quality control.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #434 of 604
Quote:

You may have shown a link as a source, but it's still BS.
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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post #435 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Yes, and we're all simply trolls, right?

Well, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck?
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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post #436 of 604
Maybe if the prototype iPhone wasn't stolen by some asshole in a bar the guy who wrote the baseband software could have fixed this problem before it came to market instead of becoming part of the circus.
post #437 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Whoops, looks like fake Steve Jobs says Apple is going to recall the iPhone 4.

Actually, more like Apple is going to recall Fake Steve Jobs.
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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post #438 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

If could mean either one, actually.

No, it really can't. It either affects ALL phones and therefore in fault with the initial HW design or the fault lies with some production issue along the way limits the issue to a subset of all iPhone 4s sold.

Quote:
Faulty concept? Are you actually mad.

So you are still on the exposed antenna being a design flaw and therefore affecting all iPhone 4s despite the issue not being universal? Sheesh, and I thought you had learned something this weekend.

Quote:
Yes, and we're all simply trolls, right?

Only when you were posting "inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion." You have to understand, Ireland, I don't care about you, i only care about accuracy and truth. Everything else in this discussion is inconsequential to me which is why I have absolutely no emotional stake in the issue at hand. I don't expect you to mirror my actions or to even understand how I can't be upset by the typical production issues that all vendors face, but you should at least give try to be objective in a technical discussion.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #439 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

Well, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck?

It's a duck, not a troll.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #440 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

Actually, more like Apple is going to recall Fake Steve Jobs.

You're funny.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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