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iPhone 4 Review: 2 - the Phone & FaceTime - Page 2

post #41 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyperson View Post

I have never before felt the need to complain about an article in the venerable Appleinsider. However, the paragraph above got my goat. It is true that I do not understand quite how signal bars work, but what I can assure you is that this is not just an issue of bars, as my signal goes from 5 bars to nil in about 15 seconds, but most significantly of all there is a concomitant drop of the phone call or a total failure of download of data, whichever is appropriate.

Not scientific, I grant you, but this isn't simply a matter of false reporting by the OS (via bars), rather it is a genuine issue, I'm surprised that neither you nor your colleagues appear to be able to replicate it.

Regards,

R.

Well said. I share your pain. eBay is your friend!
post #42 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

And, yet, in spite of your claim of scientific knowledge, the concept of determining how many people are having the problem never occurred to you. The thought of proper controls never occurred to you. The thought of independent verification of the claims never occurred to you. The thought of allowing someone with all the proper equipment to determine the scope of the problem and a solution never occurred to you.

Sorry, but anyone saying "I have a problem so Apple sucks' can't event pretend to have scientific knowledge. Well, they can pretend, but no one in their right mind would believe it.

Thank you.. I appreciate your great insight! I wish world is full of such insight!
post #43 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by vrkiran View Post

Well, firstly, the article undermines a real problem faced by real users who happen to be real apple fans. So regardless of the term "scientific", the article is one-sided.

Secondly, if you think everyone else is a dumb, you are mistaken. I have (and still am) working for major cellular equipment manufacturers and directly participated in and contributed to 3GPP and LTE standardization. I know what diagnostics to check and how the signal behaves at my home. I know exactly where the ATT towers are and I have participated in large scale operator RF planning and testing so I know what the bars actually mean and how to verify if the CSQ and CQI is good at my home. So it'd be nice if you stop assuming that people complain for no good reason and without "scientific" knowledge!!

I think you're missing the point of the article and what was meant by "unscientific." No one is saying that you're not having issues or that you're unable to properly identify & report such issues with your handset. What's being said at this very early point in the life of the iPhone 4, is no one knows the extent of the issue or the exact cause(s). What can't be said with any certainty is that because you have a problem with your iPhone 4 then all iPhone 4s are defective and/or have a design flaw. No more than it can be said that because I haven't had the issue that no issue exists.

If the iPhone 3G experience is anything to go by, it'll take a month or so for AT&T and Apple to collect data (dropped calls, user reports, field tests), isolate the issue, and prepare and test a fix. In the interim, many people will act as if the sky is falling and declare Apple the most evil empire ever known the man.
post #44 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by vrkiran View Post

Everyone is welcome to the club! Do you still have your 3GS?

We can always get back to iPhone 4 when rev.2 comes along with modified antenna. I love the Facetime!

I'm not clever enough to figure this out. Let me see if I understand. You signed a 2 year contract when you got your iPhone 4. Now you are back to using the 3GS on that same contract. What contract do you use if you want to get a new iPhone 4 in a few months?

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post #45 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I'm not clever enough to figure this out. Let me see if I understand. You signed a 2 year contract when you got your iPhone 4. Now you are back to using the 3GS on that same contract. What contract do you use if you want to get a new iPhone 4 in a few months?

You use some old phone and you pay for your iPhone 4 in full of the Upgrade Ineligible price. Just tell AT&T you broke it. Either way, you make out with some extra money.
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post #46 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I'm not clever enough to figure this out. Let me see if I understand. You signed a 2 year contract when you got your iPhone 4. Now you are back to using the 3GS on that same contract. What contract do you use if you want to get a new iPhone 4 in a few months?

It's called money!!

Sorry :-) I did not mean to come across as a jerk. If you sell your phone, you can get about $600 or so easily (eBay says so), if not more. And that should be enough to get a new phone contract-free later on and you can continue with your existing contract.

Returning to apple/att has a major catch that you will lose not only your phone, but also the "upgrade credit" you received. They may not allow you to upgrade at discounted price again for 2 years. Of course, you can argue your way out, but I rather not.
post #47 of 92
I can not imagine there will be a rev two of the iPhone 4 because of an antenna issue that can be fixed with any case, a piece of tape or any non conductive coating like clear nail polish. Yes, I have an iPhone 4, Yes I can recreate the problem if I take it out of the case, and No I do not see this issue being anything more than a minor bug and a lot of overblown hype.

Cover the antenna and the reception is better than the 3G and 3Gs. If you insist on leaving it bare, hold it different. If you are too stubborn to cover it or change your hold, you should return the iPhone 4 and spend the refund money on therapy.
post #48 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by vrkiran View Post

It's called money!!

Sorry :-) I did not mean to come across as a jerk. If you sell your phone, you can get about $600 or so easily (eBay says so), if not more. And that should be enough to get a new phone contract-free later on and you can continue with your existing contract.

Returning to apple/att has a major catch that you will lose not only your phone, but also the "upgrade credit" you received. They may not allow you to upgrade at discounted price again for 2 years. Of course, you can argue your way out, but I rather not.

Ok I guess you come out slightly ahead, but it sounds like a lot of gaming the system to me. I'm glad I don't have to worry about things like that since my company picks up the tab. I haven't decided to get a new phone yet, however a girl in the office did so I've had a chance to play with it quite a bit. I might wait and get the white one just for a change. I'm not in a rush.

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post #49 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post

Can you actually do stuff when it says "No Service"?

I haven't ever achieved that feat, but then again, I've never pulled the phone away from my face during a conversation and looked to see what my signal strength was... at least not until after having lost a call.

Thompson

Well, there are time when I've legitimately gotten "No Service," if I'm in an actual dead spot. But when I cover the antenna with my hand and the service bars show there being only one or even "No Service," I can still make and receive calls just fine.

So, yeah, I do think it's a software glitch that 4.0.1 should take care of.
post #50 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Ok I guess you come out slightly ahead, but it sounds like a lot of gaming the system to me.

Well, I respectfully disagree. I bought the phone for the price apple/att asked, I can sell it or do whatever else I want to do with it, as long as I am not violating any law. At the same time, I am not breaking my 2 year contract, so apple/att is not losing 1 cent due to whatever I am doing.

Some people microwave it an post youtube videos, I am at least not doing that. I am selling it to someone who loves it more than I do.

Thanks for your opinion, though.
post #51 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by vrkiran View Post

Well, I respectfully disagree. I bought the phone for the price apple/att asked, I can sell it or do whatever else I want to do with it, as long as I am not violating any law. At the same time, I am not breaking my 2 year contract, so apple/att is not losing 1 cent due to whatever I am doing.

Some people microwave it an post youtube videos, I am at least not doing that. I am selling it to someone who loves it more than I do.

Thanks for your opinion, though.

Sorry I didn't mean that in a bad way, I meant it sounds like a lot of effort and risk for very little reward. Not worth it in my opinion, legal as it may be. If I had decided that I did not like the phone I would just return it and forget about it. I don't have time to mess around with ebay and trying to buy a no contract phone. No way.

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post #52 of 92
Since Dilger questions the death grip problem because he's never encountered it himself, the other iPhone issues he cites must be real or more significant because he doesn't deny having them./sarcasm

The death grip is so easy to reproduce, I'm surprised Dilger doesn't have at least one personal, trustworthy contact who has witnessed the phenomenon.
post #53 of 92
I'm still a bit confused about what 'releasing Face Time as an open standard' means.

If Skype wants to use the front facing camera on the iPhone 4, does it need to 'use FaceTime', and exactly what does that mean.
I've seen articles indicating that Skype doesn't want to 'use FaceTime', but I don't see how that precludes them using the front facing camera for video Skyping.

And if the FaceTime APIs are the only way to access the front facing camera, why would Skype NOT want to use them?

I await enlightenment.
post #54 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

I'm still a bit confused about what 'releasing Face Time as an open standard' means.

If Skype wants to use the front facing camera on the iPhone 4, does it need to 'use FaceTime', and exactly what does that mean.
I've seen articles indicating that Skype doesn't want to 'use FaceTime', but I don't see how that precludes them using the front facing camera for video Skyping.

And if the FaceTime APIs are the only way to access the front facing camera, why would Skype NOT want to use them?

I await enlightenment.

Skype can add FaceTime to their app on any platform, but accessing the front-facing camera on the iPhone 4 is a different issue. I would assume they would allow it.
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post #55 of 92
The author is intentionally conflating two separate issues in order to downplay the problem with (a subset of?) the iPhone 4 devices.

As has been repeated a thousand times, all cellular phones --- and all RF devices --- will have their signal strength attenuated to some degree if you cover their antennae with your hands or other body parts. Consequently, many, if not most cell phones will show an increased signal strength when you set it down on a table. No one is disputing this.
In fact, this should also happen with the iPhone 4 to some degree, depending on how much you are covering the antennae portion.

On the other hand, at least some of the iPhone 4 units are experiencing a different phenomenon which is far more disruptive and can lead to a complete loss of signal. This phenomenon only occurs when the antennae is covered in a specific fashion, namely when it is held in a left-hand orientation. Based on all the reports, it almost assuredly is related to the fact that two different external antennae come together on the bottom-left corner of the device. These antennae are electrically separated by a small piece of rubber which keeps them from contacting each other. It appears that when someone holds the iPhone 4 in their left hand --- with their skin contacting both antennae --- they can act as a conductor and short the antennae together. This probably depends on local conditions, skin conductivity, etc, but appears to be widespread.

Some of the questions that immediately come up when this is discussed are:

1) How would Apple's engineers miss such a basic engineering flaw?
2) Why does this only affect certain people and not others?

Additionally, there was a rumor going around that a customer service representative told a customer that there was a manufacturing defect related to some "iPhones not receiving a coating"...

With this information, I think the most rational explanation is that the iPhone 4 was indeed designed to receive a special non-conductive, perhaps anti-corrosive, coating on the stainless-steel antennae during the manufacturing process -- and something went wrong on at least some of the assembly lines

This would easily explain the problem with how Apple's engineers wouldn't see a basic engineering problem. Similarly, coupled with the fact that signal strength is highly variable based upon local conditions/radio frequency/topography, this would also explain why many people are unable to replicate this problem. Their device may not have the manufacturing defect, or perhaps their signal strength is very high and so less affected by the antennae shorting than a device with a lower signal to begin with.

The only part of this situation that is still confusing is Apple's varied responses. I'm beginning to think that once Apple figured out how widespread this manufacturing defect could be, and in order to avoid a costly recall, they decided to downplay the issue and act like the antennae issue is normal behavior.

What do you guys think?
post #56 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

The author is intentionally conflating two separate issues in order to downplay the problem with (a subset of?) the iPhone 4 devices.

As has been repeated a thousand times, all cellular phones --- and all RF devices --- will have their signal strength attenuated to some degree if you cover their antennae with your hands or other body parts. Consequently, many, if not most cell phones will show an increased signal strength when you set it down on a table. No one is disputing this.
In fact, this should also happen with the iPhone 4 to some degree, depending on how much you are covering the antennae portion.

On the other hand, at least some of the iPhone 4 units are experiencing a different phenomenon which is far more disruptive and can lead to a complete loss of signal. This phenomenon only occurs when the antennae is covered in a specific fashion, namely when it is held in a left-hand orientation. Based on all the reports, it almost assuredly is related to the fact that two different external antennae come together on the bottom-left corner of the device. These antennae are electrically separated by a small piece of rubber which keeps them from contacting each other. It appears that when someone holds the iPhone 4 in their left hand --- with their skin contacting both antennae --- they can act as a conductor and short the antennae together. This probably depends on local conditions, skin conductivity, etc, but appears to be widespread.

Some of the questions that immediately come up when this is discussed are:

1) How would Apple's engineers miss such a basic engineering flaw?
2) Why does this only affect certain people and not others?

Additionally, there was a rumor going around that a customer service representative told a customer that there was a manufacturing defect related to some "iPhones not receiving a coating"...

With this information, I think the most rational explanation is that the iPhone 4 was indeed designed to receive a special non-conductive, perhaps anti-corrosive, coating on the stainless-steel antennae during the manufacturing process -- and something went wrong on at least some of the assembly lines

This would easily explain the problem with how Apple's engineers wouldn't see a basic engineering problem. Similarly, coupled with the fact that signal strength is highly variable based upon local conditions/radio frequency/topography, this would also explain why many people are unable to replicate this problem. Their device may not have the manufacturing defect, or perhaps their signal strength is very high and so less affected by the antennae shorting than a device with a lower signal to begin with.

The only part of this situation that is still confusing is Apple's varied responses. I'm beginning to think that once Apple figured out how widespread this manufacturing defect could be, and in order to avoid a costly recall, they decided to downplay the issue and act like the antennae issue is normal behavior.

What do you guys think?

Most rational mail on this forum so far. It couldn't be said better.

Yes, I do believe that Apple is strategically underplaying the issue. I also believe that this escaped the QA process due to varied reasons, including the ones you mentioned above. 1) Very few test engieers at Apple have the actual access to a physical final assembled device. Their testing would be focused on specific aspects of the device, which itself could be quite complex given short development cycles. 2) Even the few testers that did have full access probably had to cover it up for security reasons like the one that was found in the bar. 3) From my personal experience of such testing, most of it happens with a lab-only, full-strength network. Hard to catch problems like this. 4) When the fading tests are conducted, with different cross fade scenarios, reflection scenarios, testing is usually automated and hands-off. Making it hard to encounter this specific issue.
post #57 of 92
Well, if this is a real hardware issue and Apple tries to fob it off as a standard limitation of all smartphones, it won't be the first time Apple has tried this. While I love their products and customer support, Apple has a penchant for trying to gloss over problems with defective equipment. What really irks me is when their support people lie and claim ignorance about a particular problem that has been reported in great numbers on their own forum and in the tech press.

Eventually Apple almost always does the right thing, but, it often requires many months of frustrating correspondence.
post #58 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

The author is intentionally conflating two separate issues in order to downplay the problem with (a subset of?) the iPhone 4 devices.

As has been repeated a thousand times, all cellular phones --- and all RF devices --- will have their signal strength attenuated to some degree if you cover their antennae with your hands or other body parts. Consequently, many, if not most cell phones will show an increased signal strength when you set it down on a table. No one is disputing this.
In fact, this should also happen with the iPhone 4 to some degree, depending on how much you are covering the antennae portion.

On the other hand, at least some of the iPhone 4 units are experiencing a different phenomenon which is far more disruptive and can lead to a complete loss of signal. This phenomenon only occurs when the antennae is covered in a specific fashion, namely when it is held in a left-hand orientation. Based on all the reports, it almost assuredly is related to the fact that two different external antennae come together on the bottom-left corner of the device. These antennae are electrically separated by a small piece of rubber which keeps them from contacting each other. It appears that when someone holds the iPhone 4 in their left hand --- with their skin contacting both antennae --- they can act as a conductor and short the antennae together. This probably depends on local conditions, skin conductivity, etc, but appears to be widespread.

Some of the questions that immediately come up when this is discussed are:

1) How would Apple's engineers miss such a basic engineering flaw?
2) Why does this only affect certain people and not others?

Additionally, there was a rumor going around that a customer service representative told a customer that there was a manufacturing defect related to some "iPhones not receiving a coating"...

With this information, I think the most rational explanation is that the iPhone 4 was indeed designed to receive a special non-conductive, perhaps anti-corrosive, coating on the stainless-steel antennae during the manufacturing process -- and something went wrong on at least some of the assembly lines

This would easily explain the problem with how Apple's engineers wouldn't see a basic engineering problem. Similarly, coupled with the fact that signal strength is highly variable based upon local conditions/radio frequency/topography, this would also explain why many people are unable to replicate this problem. Their device may not have the manufacturing defect, or perhaps their signal strength is very high and so less affected by the antennae shorting than a device with a lower signal to begin with.

The only part of this situation that is still confusing is Apple's varied responses. I'm beginning to think that once Apple figured out how widespread this manufacturing defect could be, and in order to avoid a costly recall, they decided to downplay the issue and act like the antennae issue is normal behavior.

What do you guys think?

You are correct that there are two distinct problems.

There are several problems with your analysis with the 'dropping bars' problem. The main one is that Apple told Mossberg that the 'dropping bars' problem was a software problem and would be fixed. So much for all the conspiracy theories.
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post #59 of 92
The amount of faith being placed in "information" from rumors, and the chains of assumptions upon which peoples "beliefs" about the nature and extent of this issue is staggering. Kind of recapitulates the birth of religions.
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post #60 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBeat View Post

The information regarding the MicroCell is incorrect. I bought two of them. I set up one at my home and one at my office without issue. Although it wasn't necessary for my space, you can also set up more than 1 at a single location in order to cover an area larger than 5,000 sq. feet.

I agree with everyone who thinks it's B.S. to have to pay $150 for something AT&T should be providing as part of your usual cell phone bill. However, if you can swallow your pride and get past the initial fee, the microcell is a wonderful device. I now have 5 bars and great voice quality in two places where I used to have all kinds of issues with AT&Ts service.

It would sit a lot better with me if they reduced the "cost" of the minutes using the MicroCell, without having to pay more for that plan that gives you unlimited MicroCell minutes. Since they don't have the major infrastructure expense supporting a MicroCell user, maybe a minute on MicroCell is billed at half a minute? At least, I recall it being an all-or-nothing proposition on the usage. However, if my current non-ATT branded cellular repeater dies, I might look into it if the long term user impressions remain good.

Quote:
FWIW, I've been unable to reproduce reception any issues with my iPhone 4 and its antenna. No matter how I place my hands I get strong signals and no problems with calls. Additionally, I can now get a signal and make calls in a place where I used to get nothing but a "no service" message with my last phone. So for me the iPhone 4 antenna is a huge improvement.

That's good. It's possible that there is an oversensitivity in the algorithm used to indicate signal strength, where you get usable signal but the screen reports no signal. But if calls are dropped, then there may be an issue. I also wonder if it might be partly a regional problem. Heat and humidity imparting a mild moisture in the hand that might alter the antenna's functioning. Without a good survey, it would be hard to know that. However, I think it's very odd that using the bumper or even a piece of cellophane tape over the lower left gap drastically alters the indicated signal strength and call reliability, that tells me that it's not just the skin and bones absorbing the signal but the skin altering the signal propagation properties of the antenna.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AIaddict View Post

"Despite its fancy hardware, the core feature that is getting people into the Apple Store for iPhone 4 is FaceTime. "

This is a total crock of shit! I doubt there was anyone in line at my Apple store who would not have also been there without Facetime. People were there for a better screen, faster processor, better camera and yes the front facing camera, but if there was no facetime and just support for Skype, we all would have been there. Facetime is a great example of media buying into marketing without questioning it, and then perpetuationg its own feedback loop without regard to reality.

How many people have actually made more that a few novelty Facetime calls. Once you tried it to see what it was all about, has it REALLY become part of your daily routine?

IMHO, the screen and camera are the killer pieces of hardware and if there is a big app hit in this iteration it will be iMovie. After using iMovie for the first time I see myself and others using it all the time. After using Facetalk for the first time, I was wondering if I would ever bother to use it a second time.

I agree, though only time will tell, sometimes it takes time for a new system to settle in, a true measure of a technology uptake is not the first week of availability, but three months later and beyond. I don't know how it will really take, but I expect that even regular FT users would only use it with members of the immediate family and close friends. However, it might be useful business tool for me for remote diagnostics, somebody has a question or problem, I can see what they're doing or give a quick live demonstration.
post #61 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

There are several problems with your analysis with the 'dropping bars' problem. The main one is that Apple told Mossberg that the 'dropping bars' problem was a software problem and would be fixed. So much for all the conspiracy theories.

Dropping bars, and dropping calls and slowing data rates are different. You need to go back and read Mossberg's review. Apple made it appear that it's only a issue with the display reporting the wrong number of bars. We all know that is false. The issue affects call quality, causes drop calls, and causes slow or no data flow. Below is a quote from Mossberg's review and Apple's lie.

Mossberg -
Quote:
Yet, in some places where the signal was relatively weak, the iPhone 4 showed no bars, or fewer bars than its predecessor. Apple says that this is a bug it plans to fix, and that it has to do with the way the bars are presented, not the actual ability to make a call. And, in fact, in nearly all of these cases, the iPhone 4 was able to place calls despite the lack of bars.

However, on at least six occasions during my tests, the new iPhone was either reporting “no service” or searching for a network while the old one, held in my other hand, was showing at least a couple of bars. Neither Apple nor AT&T could explain this. The iPhone 4 quickly recovered in these situations, showing service after a few seconds, but it was still troubling.

http://ptech.allthingsd.com/20100622...phone4-review/
post #62 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Dropping bars, and dropping calls and slowing data rates are different. You need to go back and read Mossberg's review. Apple made it appear that it's only a issue with the display reporting the wrong number of bars. We all know that is false. The issue affects call quality, causes drop calls, and causes slow or no data flow. Below is a quote from Mossberg's review and Apple's lie.

We don't know that - that's just the story from people who don't understand the difference between anecdotal stories and facts.

Here's a question for you:

What is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone in the 'death grip' and what is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone away from the antennae?

Until you can answer that question with statistically valid data, you're simply blowing smoke.
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post #63 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

This would easily explain the problem with how Apple's engineers wouldn't see a basic engineering problem. Similarly, coupled with the fact that signal strength is highly variable based upon local conditions/radio frequency/topography, this would also explain why many people are unable to replicate this problem. Their device may not have the manufacturing defect, or perhaps their signal strength is very high and so less affected by the antennae shorting than a device with a lower signal to begin with.

Many of us were hoping that the missing coating was the explanation. We wanted to blame it on Foxcon. How could Apple engineers ever have made such a mistake. It makes no sense. If that turns out to be the problem, then it only confirms what others have been saying for some time. Apple needs to bring assembly back to the States where they can supervise it properly.

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post #64 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Here's a question for you:

What is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone in the 'death grip' and what is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone away from the antennae?

Until you can answer that question with statistically valid data, you're simply blowing smoke.

Uhh...no death grip needed. A simple touch of one finger tip in one small spot does it on the iPhone 4. Tell me how many phones you know is affected with such drastic consequences with a simple touch of one finger tip in one small spot. A small spot that many people naturally touch when holding the phone. As previously posted and talked about many times, this is not antenna attenuation, as much as Apple wants us to believe. This is a detuning of the antenna because the user is touching both antennas. A first for a cell phone. Due to a flawed design. Please read the below informative article.

http://www.antennasys.com/antennasys...like-this.html
post #65 of 92
Yikes... So glad to be on Sprint and have my Evo. No work arounds to make a phone call.

Disclaimer: Writing this on a Macbook Pro, former 3G and 3GS user who got tired of the same old UI and of course, AT&T.
post #66 of 92
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post #67 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Uhh...no death grip needed. A simple touch of one finger tip in one small spot does it on the iPhone 4. Tell me how many phones you know is affected with such drastic consequences with a simple touch of one finger tip in one small spot. A small spot that many people naturally touch when holding the phone. As previously posted and talked about many times, this is not antenna attenuation, as much as Apple wants us to believe. This is a detuning of the antenna because the user is touching both antennas. A first for a cell phone. Due to a flawed design. Please read the below informative article.

http://www.antennasys.com/antennasys...like-this.html

That's nice. So change 'death grip' to 'magical delicate touch at the joint'. Now, please answer my question:

"What is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone in the 'death grip' and what is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone away from the antennae?"

Until you can answer that question with statistically valid data, you're simply blowing smoke.
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post #68 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

We don't know that - that's just the story from people who don't understand the difference between anecdotal stories and facts.

Here's a question for you:

What is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone in the 'death grip' and what is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone away from the antennae?

Until you can answer that question with statistically valid data, you're simply blowing smoke.

Yawn.. Please why dont you blow it out the other end? And unlike your question (do you just cut & paste this pompous stock response on all threads?), that's not rhetorical. Regard it as encouraging you to take a course of action that you and others might find helpful.

Few dispute that the "antenna issue" is real and impacts some phones. CNET, Engadget, Trusted Reviews have all had iPhones in the posession that exhibited the problem.
post #69 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan View Post

Yawn.. Please why dont you blow it out the other end? And unlike your question (do you just cut & paste this pompous stock response on all threads?), that's not rhetorical. Regard it as encouraging you to take a course of action that you and others might find helpful.

Few dispute that the "antenna issue" is real and impacts some phones. CNET, Engadget, Trusted Reviews have all had iPhones in the posession that exhibited the problem.

I see. So the answer is that you don't have any evidence to back your claim. Got it.

I never said that the antenna issue didn't exist. I'm asking for evidence that it leads to a massive increase in dropped calls - as some of the Apple-basher are claiming. So far, they seem to think that "billy-joe-bob at the corner drugstore says he had a problem" is real evidence.
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Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #70 of 92
Yup, all of this is the U.S.' AT&T problem. I've used every version of the iPhone (purchased in countries where it is sold unlocked) with local carriers of different countries, and the only call problem I ever had was with the first gen iPhone, which often wouldn't receive my calls and would later give me missed call notifications for calls that never rang.

After I got the iPhone 3G, never again I had trouble. Orange in France, TIM in Italy, T-Mob in Germany, Smartone Vodafone in Hong Kong, America Movil in South America... never a dropped call, never bad call quality. I've already got the iPhone 4 unlocked in Europe. I can't even replicate the death grip thing, reception's so good.

There was a time when, if you loved Apple, it used to suck not being in the U.S.... I guess the times, they are a' changing...
post #71 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I see. So the answer is that you don't have any evidence to back your claim. Got it.

One thing I see is that you're not expecting Apple to present its findings as thoroughly. If we want to talk about having scientific standards, even those that have a good reputation are supposed to present their data.
post #72 of 92
jragosta fails logic
Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
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Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
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post #73 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That's nice. So change 'death grip' to 'magical delicate touch at the joint'. Now, please answer my question:

"What is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone in the 'death grip' and what is the percentage of dropped calls when holding the phone away from the antennae?"

Until you can answer that question with statistically valid data, you're simply blowing smoke.

It's not just dropped calls, those are extreme cases. But very common and reproducible nevertheless. There are also many times where the call does not drop, but the voice quality goes down. Or where the data download rate takes a nosedive. I reproduced the issue on several different iPhone 4's. All with a simple finger tip press on one small spot on the phone. And I have seen compelling video proof from countless other people. There will always be doubters like you. And that's fine. Proving something to you will not fix the issue. Only Apple can fix the issue. And I'm sure Apple knows by now they have an issue. But the fix might be costly. Its blogs like these that will keep the issue alive and push Apple into fixing this issue if enough of their customer base experience and complain about it (or don't buy their flawed product). And, by the way, you still haven't answered my question. How many phones do you know will drop calls, or cause nosedive data download rates, by simply touching the phone with a finger tip in one small spot ?
post #74 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by AIaddict View Post

I can not imagine there will be a rev two of the iPhone 4 because of an antenna issue that can be fixed with any case, a piece of tape or any non conductive coating like clear nail polish.

I cannot imagine spending that much money on a beautiful phone that has a defect and that I have to fix by myself with a piece of tape or put nail polish on it. Seriously? I'm not putting tape or nail polish on my phone.
post #75 of 92
Isn't FaceTime utilizing some kind of h264? And if so, isn't there a small license fee involved, even thought FaceTime is an open specification?
post #76 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranchogirl View Post

I cannot imagine spending that much money on a beautiful phone that has a defect and that I have to fix by myself with a piece of tape or put nail polish on it. Seriously? I'm not putting tape or nail polish on my phone.

OK, go get an EVO that has far more significant flaws if that will make you feel better.

This reception thing is so blown out of proportion it is just plain silly. The poor notification system in iOS is a much bigger problem than the death grip. The lack of wifi tethering is a bigger issue than the death grip. I could go on.
post #77 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by AIaddict View Post

OK, go get an EVO that has far more significant flaws if that will make you feel better. .

Kind of like how the Apple boys like to dismiss the iPhone issues as "overblown" and "I don't experience it on my iPhone". I'd like to say the same about my Evo. Do not experience any of the "overblown" blog posts on Evo issues. Battery life is excellent, I have no screen seperation, etc, etc.

Like you said, I do love Wi-Fi tethering and unobtrusive notifications, and the ability to have a custom homescreen with my information quickly at my fingertips (oh yea, and holding my phone in my right AND left hand and making a call). Not a grid of icons or "apps", i.e. glorified mobile websites.
post #78 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

This will eventually change, as there's no way Apple can not add this killer feature to both the upcoming iPod touch 4 and to the company's iChat AV product on the Mac, particularly given the company's openness in working to get other mobile makers in on the same standards-based protocol for video chats. For now however, setting up a FaceTime conversation depends upon the mobile phone network, meaning you can not use the feature in places where you have WiFi but no cellular service. That's pretty disappointing given how easy it is to find holes in AT&T's service.


I'm sorry but I must dissagree here. For you see, I bought the iPhone 4 on opening morning in Santa Monica, CA and I left for my two month vacation to France. I activated Airplane mode and re-enabled Wifi. Now I'm able to call my dad using just that. Without connecting to any cell provider in Toulouse, I'm able to activate Facetime.
Please explain that to me...
post #79 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabizou View Post

I'm sorry but I must dissagree here. For you see, I bought the iPhone 4 on opening morning in Santa Monica, CA and I left for my two month vacation to France. I activated Airplane mode and re-enabled Wifi. Now I'm able to call my dad using just that. Without connecting to any cell provider in Toulouse, I'm able to activate Facetime.
Please explain that to me...

I'll be getting my iPhone 4 on this Saturday. And I'll test thoroughly what you're talking about; actually, it's looking stunning to me.
True, you can activate WiFi in Airplane mode, but until iPhone 4 you could not use MobilePhone application in airplane mode. At all.

Thanks, anyway, for yet another perfect demonstration of what this board actually is.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #80 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by palegolas View Post

Isn't FaceTime utilizing some kind of h264? And if so, isn't there a small license fee involved, even thought FaceTime is an open specification?

Remember that H.264 is the only video codec that is viable for mobiles. It's HW accelerated on the silicon. FaceTime specification is free. The phone's OS will be responsible for connecting with the camera to record and encode and then to decode on the other end. All FaceTime is doing is transmitting this data efficiently. Besides H.264 being free until at least 2014 the user will never have to worry about any fee, ever.

But you do bring up an interesting point about the specification. Is it like HTML5 which allows for any video or audio codec to be used or does it specific that video is certain profile of H.264 and the audio is a certain profile on AAC. I'd have to think it's the latter because it's the only way to make it interoperable across all machines, for many reasons.
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