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Nokia pokes at iPhone 4 death grip, gets called on it

post #1 of 168
Thread Starter 
Nokia's official blog has jumped on the iPhone 4 "death grip" bandwagon in a posting that suggests the company's mobiles don't share the same issues related to blocking a phone's antenna, despite having earlier published instructions that tell users to avoid holding its phones in a way that might block the antenna.

Today's Official Nokia Blog post drying asked, "How do you hold your Nokia?" It posts a variety of pictures of a Nokia phone being cupped by a user's left hand, the same thing that is reported to cause a drop in reported signal (although not necessarily in call performance) on iPhone 4.

"The key function on any Nokia device is its ability to make phone calls," the company's official blog posting says. "Providing a wide range of methods and grips for people to hold their phones, without interfering with the antennae, has been an essential feature of every device Nokia has built."

It concludes, "Of course, feel free to ignore all of the above because realistically, youre free to hold your Nokia device any way you like. And you wont suffer any signal loss. Cool, huh?"

Grasped by its own Death Grip

Users immediately commented on the posting with links to YouTube videos showing a variety of mobile phones experiencing a lost or degraded signal when held in the user's hand, including videos of a Nokia E71 (shown below), Nokia 6230, and Nokia 6720, as well as phones from other makers: the HTC Droid Incredible and the Google branded HTC Nexus One



Another Nokia customer posted the official user instructions from his Nokia 2320, which depict the phone with a graphical "do not" swipe across the bottom antenna section of the device, and explicit instructions to "avoid touching the antenna area unnecessarily while the antenna is transmitting or receiving."

Nearly identical wording appears in Nokia's printed manuals for its other phones, including the E71, as reader Mark McCormack sent in (pictured below). That's the same model Nokia appears to be presenting in its blog page, where it asserts there is no way to reduce signal by holding the phone in a different way. Nokia's manuals say otherwise: "Contact with antennas affects the communication quality and may cause the device to operate at a higher power level than otherwise needed and my reduce the battery life."

post #2 of 168
Wow, you guys must have nothing else to write about if your blog mentions the Nokia 2320.
post #3 of 168
I love the smell of pwnage in the morning
post #4 of 168
Slow day on Appleinsider is See

Sorry guys, the jokes on you. Nokia are taking the piss out of the whole iphone death grip situation. If you think that finding nokia phones that suffers the same issues is going to backfire on this blog.... you have completely missed this piss take.

Did you guys also believe the daily mail article about Jobs recalling the iphone?
post #5 of 168
I fell over laughing when he said he didn't want to belabor the point but he was getting it on film!!!!!!
post #6 of 168
Oh please. I would expect something like this to appear on some Nokia fanboy's blog, but, not Nokia's official company blog. Poor.

What's that saying about people who live in glass houses??
post #7 of 168
is there a justification from all iphone users, that if Nokia phones also have antenna issues, then there is no failure on part of iPhone antenna
post #8 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

From Daring Fireball:

http://funsizebytes.com/post/7457211...h-boil-down-to

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amPG52DVQuk

Anyone want to guess just how many other phones have problems like these?

While I don't care for the way Jobs responded via email (or that he does respond at all) it looks like he was accurate.
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post #9 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by MH01 View Post

Sorry guys, the jokes on you. Nokia are taking the piss out of the whole iphone death grip situation. If you think that finding nokia phones that suffers the same issues is going to backfire on this blog.... you have completely missed this piss take.

Yeah? Is that why the link to the article on Nokia's blog now shows a 505 error? Seems like they decided to take it back.

EDIT: Never mind. It's accessible now. Don't know what the issue was. (shrug)
post #10 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky_ozone View Post

is there a justification from all iphone users, that if Nokia phones also have antenna issues, then there is no failure on part of iPhone antenna

There are at least a couple different issues here. One is the "death grip" at the base of the phone deliberately trying to attenuate the signal by holding it in an unusual way. The other is simply bridging the gap between the two antennas on the lefthand side and having the signal drop from 5 bars to No Signal within a few seconds. One is silly , the other is something users should be concerned about. Nokia's blog is attacking the former even though they have the same issue and even warn against it.
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post #11 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

While I don't care for the way Jobs responded via email (or that he does respond at all) it looks like he was accurate.

I would take the iPhone 4 with all its signal issues over Nokia's unusable UI.
post #12 of 168
All Nokia has to offer these days is jumping on the Anti-Apple bandwagon?
post #13 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky_ozone View Post

is there a justification from all iphone users, that if Nokia phones also have antenna issues, then there is no failure on part of iPhone antenna

Some android phones have the same problem - and their manual specifically says not to hold the phone near the bottom.
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post #14 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky_ozone View Post

is there a justification from all iphone users, that if Nokia phones also have antenna issues, then there is no failure on part of iPhone antenna

It's not a failure, it's a limitation that all smartphones share to some extent.
post #15 of 168
Though after years of get a mac ads, Apple cannot complain if another company has a go at them.
post #16 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phone-UI-Guy View Post

All Nokia has to offer these days is jumping on the Anti-Apple bandwagon?

They are in the process of selling wine with all the sour grapes they have.
post #17 of 168
Any antenna will see signal degradation when covered up. But I have yet to see a Nokia completely lose service from a normal grip.
post #18 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by MH01 View Post

Though after years of get a mac ads, Apple cannot complain if another company has a go at them.

X2!! And the fanbois are sour! But seriously though, why the heck does AI even post this kind of junk? Definitely a slow news day, ey!
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post #19 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

Oh please. I would expect something like this to appear on some Nokia fanboy's blog, but, not Nokia's official company blog. Poor.

What's that saying about people who live in glass houses??

It will be funny when they hear from Apple's attorneys and Apple demands a public apology or a multibillion dollar lawsuit.

There is plenty of evidence that Nokia and other phones have the same problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MH01 View Post

Though after years of get a mac ads, Apple cannot complain if another company has a go at them.

The difference, of course, is that Apple's ads didn't make outright false statements.
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post #20 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

I would take the iPhone 4 with all its signal issues over Nokia's unusable UI.

LOL I forgot about that. I hear they improved it considerably in an update, but that isn't saying much considering how bad it was to begin with.
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post #21 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky_ozone View Post

is there a justification from all iphone users, that if Nokia phones also have antenna issues, then there is no failure on part of iPhone antenna

No, its a simple recognition of the fact that touching antennas affect their functionality.
The hypocrites are those shouting 'Fail' at Apple for an issue that affects all phones.

I'll take the demonstrably superior reception on my iPhone 4 any day over the ability to squeeze it like a grip exerciser.
post #22 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Nokia's manual adds, "Contact with antennas affects the communication quality and may cause the device to operate at a higher power level than otherwise needed and my reduce the battery life."

And to be fair, there's no mention of the Nokia dropping calls at all in the instructions. There's something to be said for hiding the antenna in the device housing rather than exposing it to the physical environment and the added unknowns that come with it, such as the 'death grip'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism

One is the "death grip" at the base of the phone deliberately trying to attenuate the signal by holding it in an unusual way

BTW, there's no 'unusual' way to hold a phone and certainly what's described as the death grip is not that unusual at all. Have a look around you. I hold my phone exactly they way the iphone issue is said to arise. Other's don't.

Is there a compendium of standard smart phone gripping techniques which I have somehow missed?
post #23 of 168
I switched from a Nokia as they did not repair it because it supposedly got water damage.

Now, what did I do to that Nokia phone? I went skiing with it, something I have done with each an every one of my 4 previous phones and the iPhone 3GS which replaced that crappy Nokia, no water damage whatsoever. Truth is, Nokia is a cheap and low class phone company that makes terrible and unusable phones, yeah the replaceable battery and 10 other moving parts on the phone make it vulnerable to humidity and physical damage, I lost CHF 400 on that shitty Nokia, and I hope they go down because at that time, I really did not have money to buy a phone, luckily my operator was much more professional and asked if I'd be interested in the iPhone 3GS at a reduced price, between the iPhone, Google phones and Blackberry I chose the one that looked like it would give me the least headaches and would have the lowest chance to deceive me, I was right.

Screw Nokia, their phones suck. I'm no fanboy, I looked around before I bought an iPhone, what I hate about Nokia is that they're jealous and pick at defaults of a new product, I'm sure I can find a new Nokia phone launch that was an epic failure.
post #24 of 168
Right now nokia is feeling like McCain during the campaign. Damn itnets!!!
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post #25 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It will be funny when they hear from Apple's attorneys and Apple demands a public apology or a multibillion dollar lawsuit.

I don't think the article mentions the iphone at all? Mere coincidence? Yes, I am being asinine but there's nothing for apple to latch onto in that blog post at all.
post #26 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It will be funny when they hear from Apple's attorneys and Apple demands a public apology or a multibillion dollar lawsuit.

Sure hope so, that's what they should get for being rude and stupid. They could spend the time to post such BS improving their ill-conceived phones.
post #27 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

The difference, of course, is that Apple's ads didn't make outright false statements.

Owww come on, get a Mac ads were a parody and humorous , they were not based on facts, clever marketing based on stereotypes . The statements about pcs and viruses were blow out. So nokia is showing u how to hold a phone, what are you going to sue them over??
post #28 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

While I don't care for the way Jobs responded via email (or that he does respond at all) it looks like he was accurate.

Yeah, or just don't buy it that way.
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post #29 of 168
Similar to the article about the antennae issue from Price Mclean, this one misses the point and (I feel) is intentionally conflating two separate issues in order to downplay the problem with (a subset of?) the iPhone 4 devices.

As has been repeated a thousand times, all cellular phones --- and all RF devices --- will have their signal strength attenuated to some degree if you cover their antennae with your hands or other body parts. Consequently, many, if not most cell phones will show an increased signal strength when you set it down on a table. No one is disputing this.
In fact, this should also happen with the iPhone 4 to some degree, depending on how much you are covering the antennae portion.

On the other hand, at least some of the iPhone 4 units are experiencing a different phenomenon which is far more disruptive and can lead to a complete loss of signal. This phenomenon only occurs when the antennae is covered in a specific fashion, namely when it is held in a left-hand orientation. Based on all the reports, it almost assuredly is related to the fact that two different external antennae come together on the bottom-left corner of the device. These antennae are electrically separated by a small piece of rubber which keeps them from contacting each other. It appears that when someone holds the iPhone 4 in their left hand --- with their skin contacting both antennae --- they can act as a conductor and short the antennae together. This probably depends on local conditions, skin conductivity, etc, but appears to be widespread.

Some of the questions that immediately come up when this is discussed are:

1) How would Apple's engineers miss such a basic engineering flaw?
2) Why does this only affect certain people and not others?

Additionally, there was a rumor going around that a customer service representative told a customer that there was a manufacturing defect related to some "iPhones not receiving a coating"...

With this information, I think the most rational explanation is that the iPhone 4 was indeed designed to receive a special non-conductive, perhaps anti-corrosive, coating on the stainless-steel antennae during the manufacturing process -- and something went wrong on at least some of the assembly lines

This would easily explain the problem with how Apple's engineers wouldn't see a basic engineering problem. Similarly, coupled with the fact that signal strength is highly variable based upon local conditions/radio frequency/topography, this would also explain why many people are unable to replicate this problem. Their device may not have the manufacturing defect, or perhaps their signal strength is very high and so less affected by the antennae shorting than a device with a lower signal to begin with.

The only part of this situation that is still confusing is Apple's varied responses. I'm beginning to think that once Apple figured out how widespread this manufacturing defect could be, and in order to avoid a costly recall, they decided to downplay the issue and act like the antennae issue is normal behavior.

What do you guys think?
post #30 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Yeah, or just don't buy it that way.

Don't buy it with an antenna or don't buy it with a government regulation on where the antenna can be placed and how powerful it can be?
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post #31 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Don't buy it with an antenna or don't buy it with a government regulation on where the antenna can be placed and how powerful it can be?

No, if this antenna issue cannot be fixed with software and then Apple doesn't change the hardware on some level to address this, just don't buy it that way.

The FFC says you need to have the antenna at the bottom, they never said the antenna should be on the outside of the phone where 'your hand touches it'.

You're talking about antenna attenuation, I'm taking about bridging the antenna. Different issue. Now, if they can fix this with software then it's not a big deal. If that is the case however, Steve confused a lot of people by telling a user to not hold it in that way, rather than saying a software fix is coming.
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post #32 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

Similar to the article about the antennae issue from Price Mclean, this one misses the point and (I feel) is intentionally conflating two separate issues in order to downplay the problem with (a subset of?) the iPhone 4 devices.

As has been repeated a thousand times, all cellular phones --- and all RF devices --- will have their signal strength attenuated to some degree if you cover their antennae with your hands or other body parts. Consequently, many, if not most cell phones will show an increased signal strength when you set it down on a table. No one is disputing this.
In fact, this should also happen with the iPhone 4 to some degree, depending on how much you are covering the antennae portion.

On the other hand, at least some of the iPhone 4 units are experiencing a different phenomenon which is far more disruptive and can lead to a complete loss of signal. This phenomenon only occurs when the antennae is covered in a specific fashion, namely when it is held in a left-hand orientation. Based on all the reports, it almost assuredly is related to the fact that two different external antennae come together on the bottom-left corner of the device. These antennae are electrically separated by a small piece of rubber which keeps them from contacting each other. It appears that when someone holds the iPhone 4 in their left hand --- with their skin contacting both antennae --- they can act as a conductor and short the antennae together. This probably depends on local conditions, skin conductivity, etc, but appears to be widespread.

Some of the questions that immediately come up when this is discussed are:

1) How would Apple's engineers miss such a basic engineering flaw?
2) Why does this only affect certain people and not others?

Additionally, there was a rumor going around that a customer service representative told a customer that there was a manufacturing defect related to some "iPhones not receiving a coating"...

With this information, I think the most rational explanation is that the iPhone 4 was indeed designed to receive a special non-conductive, perhaps anti-corrosive, coating on the stainless-steel antennae during the manufacturing process -- and something went wrong on at least some of the assembly lines

This would easily explain the problem with how Apple's engineers wouldn't see a basic engineering problem. Similarly, coupled with the fact that signal strength is highly variable based upon local conditions/radio frequency/topography, this would also explain why many people are unable to replicate this problem. Their device may not have the manufacturing defect, or perhaps their signal strength is very high and so less affected by the antennae shorting than a device with a lower signal to begin with.

The only part of this situation that is still confusing is Apple's varied responses. I'm beginning to think that once Apple figured out how widespread this manufacturing defect could be, and in order to avoid a costly recall, they decided to downplay the issue and act like the antennae issue is normal behavior.

What do you guys think?

I think that's an amazing post.
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post #33 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by MH01 View Post

Though after years of get a mac ads, Apple cannot complain if another company has a go at them.

Please don't confuse Apple with AppleInsider. AFAIK Apple has not responded, and probably will not respond, seeing as they were not directly mentioned. Besides, it seems like Nokia users have responded appropriately...
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post #34 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

I would take the iPhone 4 with all its signal issues over Nokia's unusable UI.

Are you still posting that crap from last year, the N97 might be a failure of a device in your viewpoint, but they have had firmware updates since then

And don't forget, Apple had an ad banned in the UK for misrepresentation
post #35 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It will be funny when they hear from Apple's attorneys and Apple demands a public apology or a multibillion dollar lawsuit.

I imagine it will be around the same time Nokia complains to Apple for using their "Connecting People" phrase, oh thats right, they didn't complain, did they!?!?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

There is plenty of evidence that Nokia and other phones have the same problem.

All devices with an aerial will lose signal if you cover them, the difference in this case is Apple has placed the aerial where people hold the device and then blame the users for holding it wrong. Maybe they should tell people upfront, then there wouldn't be an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

The difference, of course, is that Apple's ads didn't make outright false statements.

Yet they had an ad in the UK banned...
post #36 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

I would take the iPhone 4 with all its signal issues over Nokia's unusable UI.

a phone makes phone calls.
post #37 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Dawkins View Post

a phone makes phone calls.

And the iPhone is more than just a phone.
post #38 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Dawkins View Post

a phone makes phone calls.

I like turtles?
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post #39 of 168
It's funny how immature and idiotic companies are on their blogs.

I looked but can't find the URL to Apple's blog. Can someone post it? I did find Steve Jobs' personal blog. Hilarious!
post #40 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Yet they had an ad in the UK banned...


An ad in a country? How many ads does Apple show in how many countries in a typical year?
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