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Nokia pokes at iPhone 4 death grip, gets called on it - Page 4

post #121 of 168
I really hope Nokia pull themselves out of it.

Before smartphones came along they were pretty much the phone of choice for most people I knew, particularly when I was selling mobile phones a while back.

The best thing about Nokias used to be the the menu system was simple and worked the same across a wide range of phones - if you could master one you could get almost any Nokia phone up and running quickly.
The same with the power cords - everyone had a Nokia power cord which you could borrow if you happened to run out of juice somewhere which wasn't often as the battery life was generally pretty good.

I think Nokia started to go wrong when they changed the menu system around so it was different for lots of different models, and this ran through to the change in power charger connections. It just became so counter intuitive and hard to work. I think it has mirrored the culture at Nokia quite accurately, it just took a while to become obvious to all.

Of course smartphones are a different kettle of fish. Maybe Nokia need to cosy up to Android more and dump Ovi or even Symbian?
..... the greatest fame comes from adding to human knowledge, not winning battles.
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post #122 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

Just don't get caught.

Why? Is it embarrassing to go to Vodafone and get an iPhone on contract free?
post #123 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostkiwi View Post

Of course smartphones are a different kettle of fish. Maybe Nokia need to cosy up to Android more and dump Ovi or even Symbian?

That is something that I would never see happening, they won't dump Symbian or MeeGo, they will not drop platforms they have control over to get something they will have very little control over.
post #124 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

You call me a parrot, yet you are the one constantly spouting the same thing over and over again.

I know Nokia has problems, I'm not sure why you claim I don't want to admit that, but Apple have serious issues as well, they just released a phone that lacked serious testing, and then blamed their users for the way they were using it.



You can post as many links you want, I will even read them, but please make sure you don't post those US centric ones, the world is very different in other regions and a lot of them don't mean much.

Or is it Fanning the Flamer?

Relax.
post #125 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by John E C View Post

Or is it Fanning the Flamer?

No, are you John the Flusher?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John E C View Post

Relax.

I am, thanks for asking.
post #126 of 168
the thing is with : NO BODY CARE ABOUT NOKIAAA PHONE, and Nokia is no longer connecting people, but connecting people to SH*T

NOKIA : you can shit away
post #127 of 168
Nokia's time has come and gone.
post #128 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Implying that digital camera will not work with PC (or has difficulties) is, in my book, a lie. I still have operational Canon A40 camera that was released without Mac support (was not compatible with OSX Image Capture or something like that). Canon released Mac version of camera's software later on, but it is hardly a secret in early 2000's it was much easier to find camera/printer/... not working with Mac than with PC, and people were using some of those devices when above mentioned "Get a Mac" add was released. My brother, for example, is still using old HP 4L laser printer. It does the job for him. It has parallel printer port.

The only problem with your diatribe is that Apple never claimed that digital cameras wouldn't work with PCs - or even implied it.

That's the problem with you Apple haters - you see things that aren't there and then pretend that Apple is evil based on the things you imagine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Can't argue on this since I didn't have a chance to work on Mac yet. That little impression I picked up in Apple shops didn't make me realise OSX is any easier than W7, in fact it felt much more alien to me... but like I said, it wasn't experience long enough to really count.

So we've now established that your opinion on the subject is worthless. Please feel free to post again if you ever use a Mac and have some factual basis for discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

I'd like to know why all the phone manufacturers decided to stop putting antennas on the top of the phone. Is there really a good scientific reason for putting it on the bottom where it's shielded by the user's hand and head?

Heck, if it gave me better reception I'd gladly go back to having one of those little pull out antennas that cell phones used to have.

FCC rules. There's an article in one of the earlier threads on this subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Don't forget that Apple was nearly backrupt a couple of years ago, things change.

A couple of years ago? Nearly bankrupt? This is the kind of delusion that the Apple haters seem to thrive on.

Yes, Apple was down to its last BILLION dollars in cash something like 15 years ago. Hardly 'nearly bankrupt' and hardly 'a few years ago'. Here's an idea - why not stick to reality rather than fabricated 'facts'?
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #129 of 168
Nokia... Lame attempt to fool the consumers. Fix the E75 issues, esp. the mysterious 3G/3.5G data connections (no apps running, unable to trace what data connections/activities) which cause calls to drop.

Nokia... Now you have seal the fate of losing 1 customer who has been using Nokia phones for a decade.
post #130 of 168
Let's see...someone suggested that other companies draw attention to this. Check.
I pointed out that if they're going to do that they should first make sure their phones don't have the same problem. Check.
Nokia does this without checking first. Oops. Busted.
post #131 of 168
One thing got missed in media and i'm not sure exactly why. Do you people know that by becoming antenna for Iphone 4, you are actually taking part of radiation that the phone emits. This definitely is not good.
Also, the fact is that the phone uses just as much power as needed to send the data to the cell tower. Now, with signal lower, it will have to raise the signal output to necessary level. That could cause an issue with additional SAR levels.
I for one, have problems since i changed my nokia to HTC with headaches if talking for longer period since SAR level is 3 times higher on my new phone. Now, i don't have conversation longer than 5 minutes if i don't have it on my parrot or headset.

Another thing is i'm not sure how can anyone claim that this is not a hw issue. It might be partially circumvented by sw, but the bare fact that you touch part of phone and it behaves differently, proves the hw flaw point of view.
I'm not a troll though i am new one as poster on this forum
post #132 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

A couple of years ago? Nearly bankrupt? This is the kind of delusion that the Apple haters seem to thrive on.

Yes, Apple was down to its last BILLION dollars in cash something like 15 years ago. Hardly 'nearly bankrupt' and hardly 'a few years ago'. Here's an idea - why not stick to reality rather than fabricated 'facts'?

What good is a billion in the bank when no one is purchasing your products? It was a known fact that Apple was on their death bed in the mid 90's, this is a fact that I am sticking with, get over your misguided pride and just realise how poor things were for them then. The Apple today is nothing like the Apple then.
post #133 of 168
So summing up...

Nokia is doomed?

post #134 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

No it doesn't, you said



Again I ask you, what is the difference between a smartphone and a "REAL" smartphone (your words, not mine)

Now you're acting childish. It was in response to your insistence that S40 is a smartphone OS. My remark was to indicate that it wasn't a smartphone despite that you were insisting it was. Some people, such as yourself insist that feature phones are smartphones. While they have SOME features of smartphones, they aren't "real" smartphones, just imitations.
post #135 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

You call me a parrot, yet you are the one constantly spouting the same thing over and over again.

I know Nokia has problems, I'm not sure why you claim I don't want to admit that, but Apple have serious issues as well, they just released a phone that lacked serious testing, and then blamed their users for the way they were using it.

You are a parrot. You kept repeating what I said. That's a parrot.

This is the first time you've admitted that Nokia has problems. Otherwise, you just keep saying that they're the biggest in the world, which means little as they are declining.

Apple has at most, very minor problems.

Quote:
You can post as many links you want, I will even read them, but please make sure you don't post those US centric ones, the world is very different in other regions and a lot of them don't mean much.

I'll post whatever's relevant.

If you can find links that say Nokia is doing better than ever, then do so, no matter where they come from.
post #136 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

That is something that I would never see happening, they won't dump Symbian or MeeGo, they will not drop platforms they have control over to get something they will have very little control over.

It was also thought that Maemo was the "future" for them, as they had said when it first came out.

Now It's MeeGo. If that doesn't work out, what will they do next?

Realistically, companies must try to find ways to survive. There can't be a line in the sand about it.

Apple bought Next when Copeland failed. When Longhorn failed, MS had to go to their server software an modify that. Still it was year before they could come out with Vista, which was a failure. But the position MS is in in that part of the industry kept them going until "7" came out. If MeeGo fails, Nokia will have to figure something out. They will be more like the old Apple than like MS.

Going to Android might not be palatable to them, because then they will lose their "soul" in high end and likely mid range smartphones. They will be subject to Google as is every other phone manufacturer using Android. I'm not sure Nokia wants that, and I'm not sure it would be good for them. Possibly they should have purchased Palm as a hedge as so many in the industry thought they should.
post #137 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post

One thing got missed in media and i'm not sure exactly why. Do you people know that by becoming antenna for Iphone 4, you are actually taking part of radiation that the phone emits. This definitely is not good.
Also, the fact is that the phone uses just as much power as needed to send the data to the cell tower. Now, with signal lower, it will have to raise the signal output to necessary level. That could cause an issue with additional SAR levels.
I for one, have problems since i changed my nokia to HTC with headaches if talking for longer period since SAR level is 3 times higher on my new phone. Now, i don't have conversation longer than 5 minutes if i don't have it on my parrot or headset.

Another thing is i'm not sure how can anyone claim that this is not a hw issue. It might be partially circumvented by sw, but the bare fact that you touch part of phone and it behaves differently, proves the hw flaw point of view.
I'm not a troll though i am new one as poster on this forum

All cell phones have their signal drop, both incoming and outgoing when the hand is placed over where the antenna is located. Apple's occasional problems are related to the antenna being located outside, where a hand that sweats can short the antenna out. When that happens NO signal may move. There is no more radiation than otherwise. In addition. There has never been any proof from any properly done study that has shown that cell radiation is harmful. So far, that's just a bogy man. The FCC is just being careful in its rules.
post #138 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

What good is a billion in the bank when no one is purchasing your products? It was a known fact that Apple was on their death bed in the mid 90's, this is a fact that I am sticking with, get over your misguided pride and just realise how poor things were for them then. The Apple today is nothing like the Apple then.

Their products were being purchased. Their main problems had come from the problem with Copeland, not sales per se. The other problem had come from the clones. Apple had not set that up properly. While the Mac OS share was actually rising slightly because of it, it took some sales away from Apple. By buying Next, and ending clones, Apple righted itself, and the iMac began the climb to where it is today. which will be about $60 billion in sales this year.

It's true that if those two problems hadn't been addressed properly, Apple would have been bought out by someone else. But that's a long time ago. Nokia's problems are current. We don't have the advantage of history to see how that will go.

Will they make the right decisions, or won't they? So far, it's been considered that they haven't. They stuck their head in the sand for years. Is it too late? I hope not, but it's not just Apple they have to worry about now.
post #139 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It was also thought that Maemo was the "future" for them, as they had said when it first came out.

It's not that I don't believe you, as Nokia has been planning to use Maemo for a number of years, but can you please produce a quote from 2005 showing them saying this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Now It's MeeGo. If that doesn't work out, what will they do next?

Actually Meego is carrying on exacting where Maemo left off, they are focusing on QT
post #140 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Now you're acting childish. It was in response to your insistence that S40 is a smartphone OS. My remark was to indicate that it wasn't a smartphone despite that you were insisting it was. Some people, such as yourself insist that feature phones are smartphones. While they have SOME features of smartphones, they aren't "real" smartphones, just imitations.

I'm not acting childish, you are now trying to fix the mistake you made in the first place. I wasn't insisting it was, maybe you should read who posted the message in the first place, you may notice it wasn't me. And in saying that, the message that Jody responded to questioned who would line up for a Nokia phone, and they said no one would, and Jody proved them wrong. But for some reason you guys here don't like getting proved wrong in any discussion, so who is acting childish?
post #141 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You are a parrot. You kept repeating what I said. That's a parrot.

No, I haven't been.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

This is the first time you've admitted that Nokia has problems. Otherwise, you just keep saying that they're the biggest in the world, which means little as they are declining.

Market share has been decreasing (actually staying the same), but in units they have grown quite a bit. Targets are just that, targets, yes they will be disappointed with not meeting them, maybe Nokias problem is they are more open with their data than Apple is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Apple has at most, very minor problems.

I think the very topic we are discussing is a prime example that you are wrong.
post #142 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

It's not that I don't believe you, as Nokia has been planning to use Maemo for a number of years, but can you please produce a quote from 2005 showing them saying this?

I don't know if I have the time to search for something from 2005, but here are comments about Maemo by Nokia officials. As I said, no company can put a line in the sand. What their thinking was in 2005 is irrelevant now. What their thinking now isn't, but might be a year from now. We can only go by what is happening around our own time.

http://www.itpro.co.uk/614452/nokia-...will-run-maemo

I think that it's interesting that the company isn't speaking with one voice. The Maemo team obviously was privy of what was current thinking, but shouldn't have made public statements the company then had to qualify, though not actually deny. By the way, I've already said in previous posts that Nokia would likely keep Symbian for medium level smartphones while going to Maemo, now MeeGo, for its highest end models, whatever they may want to call them. i still believe that, as it's becoming obvious. But over time, more will leave the Symbian OS.

http://gigaom.com/2009/11/18/nokia-t...ture-on-maemo/

And now it's Meego:

http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/No...wlc=1277867823

Quote:
Actually Meego is carrying on exacting where Maemo left off, they are focusing on QT

Not exactly, as Meego is a combination of Intel's OS and theirs. The QT development continuance is a lucky and good thing though.
post #143 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

I'm not acting childish, you are now trying to fix the mistake you made in the first place. I wasn't insisting it was, maybe you should read who posted the message in the first place, you may notice it wasn't me. And in saying that, the message that Jody responded to questioned who would line up for a Nokia phone, and they said no one would, and Jody proved them wrong. But for some reason you guys here don't like getting proved wrong in any discussion, so who is acting childish?

I'm responding to you, and those comments were childish, or perhaps I should instead have said petulant, as childish went a bit further than I mean to.

You always jump in on any discussion of Nokia to defend it. Mostly, you say that "they're the biggest, that means they are the best", or something to that effect.
post #144 of 168
Once again: When was the last time anyone lined up for a new Nokia phone?
post #145 of 168
Lol, fail at apple bashing.
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post #146 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

No, I haven't been.

You did it twice. Check your posts.

Quote:
Market share has been decreasing (actually staying the same), but in units they have grown quite a bit. Targets are just that, targets, yes they will be disappointed with not meeting them, maybe Nokias problem is they are more open with their data than Apple is...

Ther units have not kept up with the market as a whole.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=18749

You keep talking about outside the States:

http://dialytechbuzz.com/blog/2010/0...e-falls-local/

Quote:
I think the very topic we are discussing is a prime example that you are wrong.

Nope! Nokia's had, and has problems as well. but let's see how they're doing some more.

Worldwide smartphone sales from the end of 2007 right after the iPhone came out, until the end of Q4 2009:

http://gigaom.com/2010/02/23/the-smartphone-market/


This page shows on top mobile OS sales 2008 and 2009, and then total cell sales 2008 and 2009, not just smartphone sales, so Apple isn't there. Note that both Symbian and Nokia's total sales and marketshares have dropped.

http://techcrunch.com/2010/02/23/sma...-2009-gartner/

Another table from 2009:

http://www.edibleapple.com/nokia-sti...pressive-rate/

Let's go back to Q3 2008:

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/...-profits-down/

Here's a Nokia stock history chart:
http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Nokia_(NOK)/WikiChart

Here's another, with better numbers, also going back five years. Notice what happened in late 2008? I wonder why?:

http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=NOK
post #147 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I don't know if I have the time to search for something from 2005, but here are comments about Maemo by Nokia officials. As I said, no company can put a line in the sand. What their thinking was in 2005 is irrelevant now. What their thinking now isn't, but might be a year from now. We can only go by what is happening around our own time.

You constantly chastise me for my comments, and yet you throw around a statement, and won't even come up with something to back it up?

Maemo was released in 2005, your words were

Quote:
It was also thought that Maemo was the "future" for them, as they had said when it first came out.

2005 isn't irrelevant, you were the one who brought it up in the first place.
post #148 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

Once again: When was the last time anyone lined up for a new Nokia phone?

You have already been given an example.
post #149 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I'm responding to you, and those comments were childish, or perhaps I should instead have said petulant, as childish went a bit further than I mean to.

You always jump in on any discussion of Nokia to defend it. Mostly, you say that "they're the biggest, that means they are the best", or something to that effect.

Or something to that effect? You always jump any discussion and defend Apple, no matter how bad they have been, or how dumb they have been. The fact that they sell an expensive phone, that requires an expensive monthly fee, and they place the aerial where people hold the damn thing, and you just defend them like normal. Then if you get proved wrong you jump in and say "but apple makes more money than everyone else".

Get over it, the majority of the comments made about Nokia are childish, and pathetic, and the only issue is someone is willing to correct people when they post such rubbish.
post #150 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

You constantly chastise me for my comments, and yet you throw around a statement, and won't even come up with something to back it up?

Maemo was released in 2005, your words were



2005 isn't irrelevant, you were the one who brought it up in the first place.

I said that I don't know if I'll have time to find something that far back, and yes, while they did say that around that time, what matters more, is what they're saying today. I did mention that as well.

You have no answer to any of my arguments, or to any of my links, so you resort to semantics, trying to catch little irrelevant things that don't affect the argument as a whole.
post #151 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Or something to that effect? You always jump any discussion and defend Apple, no matter how bad they have been, or how dumb they have been. The fact that they sell an expensive phone, that requires an expensive monthly fee, and they place the aerial where people hold the damn thing, and you just defend them like normal. Then if you get proved wrong you jump in and say "but apple makes more money than everyone else".

Get over it, the majority of the comments made about Nokia are childish, and pathetic, and the only issue is someone is willing to correct people when they post such rubbish.

Now, you're totally making things up. Ask anyone around here if I always defend Apple. I most surely do not. And if you came on more threads, instead of just popping up in those about Nokia in some way, you'd know that.

If you could post something useful for once, I would agree.

Prove one thing I said or linked to about Nokia that isn't true? You can't do that. You just resort to innuendo, as you always do.

I asked you to post some links about Nokia the proves otherwise, but you haven't even acknowledged any of the ones I've posted last time, much less posted anything showing what you state to be the truth.

We all know Apple's having some problems here. But, with about 2 million phones sold, the problems are apparently only affecting a small number of people in weak signal areas. We've been discussing that. The sensor is also apparently too sensitive, and needs an adjustment. Happy now? Should I post all the links about Nokia models with problems? Would that make you any happier?
post #152 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

All cell phones have their signal drop, both incoming and outgoing when the hand is placed over where the antenna is located. Apple's occasional problems are related to the antenna being located outside, where a hand that sweats can short the antenna out. When that happens NO signal may move. There is no more radiation than otherwise. In addition. There has never been any proof from any properly done study that has shown that cell radiation is harmful. So far, that's just a bogy man. The FCC is just being careful in its rules.

Yes.. but it's a difference if a signal drops for 10 or 50 decibels. That means that the phone will have to emit more mwatts.
As for cell radiation, i agree that there is no definite proof with radiation of this strength, there are so many studies that claim one or another. It is though definite that (much) more powerful microwave radiation causes life threatening issues. That's why it's forbidden to get close to big radar antennas.
What is for sure is that i get a headache after talking on cell for some time so this might probably be an issue for me.
post #153 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Now, you're totally making things up. Ask anyone around here if I always defend Apple. I most surely do not. And if you came on more threads, instead of just popping up in those about Nokia in some way, you'd know that.

I am not making things up, I read a lot of threads here, I only "pop" in, as you say, when someone is saying something wrong, and it needs correcting.
post #154 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I said that I don't know if I'll have time to find something that far back, and yes, while they did say that around that time, what matters more, is what they're saying today. I did mention that as well.

You have no answer to any of my arguments, or to any of my links, so you resort to semantics, trying to catch little irrelevant things that don't affect the argument as a whole.

I might try that one as well shall I??

You have no answer to any of my arguments, or to any of my links, so you resort to semantics, trying to catch little irrelevant things that don't affect the argument as a whole.
post #155 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post

Yes.. but it's a difference if a signal drops for 10 or 50 decibels. That means that the phone will have to emit more mwatts.
As for cell radiation, i agree that there is no definite proof with radiation of this strength, there are so many studies that claim one or another. It is though definite that (much) more powerful microwave radiation causes life threatening issues. That's why it's forbidden to get close to big radar antennas.
What is for sure is that i get a headache after talking on cell for some time so this might probably be an issue for me.

It's the antenna that causes the radiation. If it's shorted out, it's not really radiating properly. It's the water in our bodies that causes most of the problem, and water is difficult for radio signals to penetrate.
post #156 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

I am not making things up, I read a lot of threads here, I only "pop" in, as you say, when someone is saying something wrong, and it needs correcting.

So far, you haven't shown that I said a single thing that's wrong. It's not enough that YOU say so, because it's controversial until proof is given. I've given a lot of links to prove what I've been saying, and asked you to do the same, but you totally ignore that. You know, other people are reading this, they see that as well.

So if you want to say I'm wrong, fine, but prove it.
post #157 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

I might try that one as well shall I??

You have no answer to any of my arguments, or to any of my links, so you resort to semantics, trying to catch little irrelevant things that don't affect the argument as a whole.

You see? now you're parroting again. You're not saying anything useful, and you know it. You haven't supplied links to refute anything. The one you did supply didn't say anything that proved that what I said was wrong.

Really, if this is the best you can do, then don't bother. You may as well not post at all.

And if you think you're getting me frustrated, and you're getting excited at that thought, it's not happening. It's just boring.
post #158 of 168
I use a Nokia 6300 -- nice little phone, does the job, no one gets hurt.

Anyway, the manual clearly states that the top part of the phone should not be held, as this is where the antenna is placed and it may interfere with reception.

People who live in glass houses...
post #159 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

So far, you haven't shown that I said a single thing that's wrong. It's not enough that YOU say so, because it's controversial until proof is given. I've given a lot of links to prove what I've been saying, and asked you to do the same, but you totally ignore that. You know, other people are reading this, they see that as well.

So if you want to say I'm wrong, fine, but prove it.

I already have, but for whatever reason, you won't accept it. I have finished discussing this topic, I can see you are too childish to accept a simple mistake you have made, that is a characteristic that a lot of people on this site exhibit.
post #160 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

You have already been given an example.

Where? Can't find anything in this thread.
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