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Nokia pokes at iPhone 4 death grip, gets called on it - Page 2

post #41 of 168
News Just In:

Holding your hand over the screen prevents normal function of the Retina Display

Holding your hand over the microphone makes it harder for the other person to hear you

Holding your hand over the aerial makes it harder for the phone to receive a signal



PS iPhone 4 owner here...not a single issue so far, even when trying to reproduce some of them..
post #42 of 168
Reproducible issue on some phones. Based on this video I'd say it's leaning toward an issue that can be fixed with a SW update.

http://vimeo.com/12864890
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post #43 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Reproducible issue on some phones. Based on this video I'd say it's leaning toward an issue that can be fixed with a SW update.
http://vimeo.com/12864890

Speaking of which, has the SW fix arrived yet?
post #44 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Nokia's official blog has jumped on the iPhone 4 "death grip" bandwagon in a posting that suggests the company's mobiles don't share the same issues related to blocking a phone's antenna, despite having earlier published instructions that tell users to avoid holding its phones in a way that might block the antenna.


How does one hold a Nokia?

With a barge pole. Nokia phones are nothing but pure unadulterated crap. They are cheap badly assembled and break at the slightest hint of anything.

Nokia should go back to being a company that manufactures wood chips.
post #45 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

News Just In:

Holding your hand over the screen prevents normal function of the Retina Display

Holding your hand over the microphone makes it harder for the other person to hear you

Holding your hand over the aerial makes it harder for the phone to receive a signal



PS iPhone 4 owner here...not a single issue so far, even when trying to reproduce some of them..

Same thing not a single problem.It works as advertised and I love it.

JDS
post #46 of 168
Seems like ya'll are pretty defensive lashing at Nokia because they lashed at Apple.
Pretty hillarious really, get a little older and that thinking that the product you buy is the only good product will wear away....

Where are the launch day articles of this issue for Nokia devices?
post #47 of 168
I guess we simply aren't grasping (pun intended) the nuances of Finnish humor. Is there an equivalent to April Fool's day in June in Finland?

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post #48 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


An ad in a country? How many ads does Apple show in how many countries in a typical year?

I don't care how many they show, I replied to this statement, which is incorrect...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

The difference, of course, is that Apple's ads didn't make outright false statements.

If they weren't making any false statements why was the ad banned?
post #49 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerofTruth View Post

They are in the process of selling wine with all the sour grapes they have.

exactly!


Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

...

And don't forget, Apple had an ad banned in the UK for misrepresentation

Which one if I may ask? If you are referring to the apps and apps store, the last time I read, the ASA (Advertising Standard Agency) sided and agree with Apple with their claim that Apple have apps that can do everything and can only be found in iPhone. Did you even read until until the end?
post #50 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

I don't care how many they show, I replied to this statement, which is incorrect...

If they weren't making any false statements why was the ad banned?

The fact that you don't care 'how many they show' tells me that you have no clue as to how to sensibly interpret data.

If thousands and thousands of ads are being shown across the world and one of them, the same one as that shown in other countries, was found to contain 'false statements' in one country, it could quite likely be the mistake of the regulator as well. That could be equally a valid reason for why the ad was banned. No one else seemed to have a problem with it (not even the rest of the EU, to which the UK belongs).
post #51 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHOBIZ View Post

Seems like ya'll are pretty defensive lashing at Nokia because they lashed at Apple.
Pretty hillarious really, get a little older and that thinking that the product you buy is the only good product will wear away....

Where are the launch day articles of this issue for Nokia devices?

Not too many people seem to care much about Nokia launch days. That's not just here. Maybe in Europe somewhere.
post #52 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash-reverse View Post

Which one if I may ask? If you are referring to the apps and apps store, the last time I read, the ASA (Advertising Standard Agency) sided and agree with Apple with their claim that Apple have apps that can do everything and can only be found in iPhone. Did you even read until until the end?

Thanks (if true). It's amazing how some of these urban myths persist and propagate.
post #53 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky_ozone View Post

is there a justification from all iphone users, that if Nokia phones also have antenna issues, then there is no failure on part of iPhone antenna

the joke isn't that the iphone lacks this issue. It's that Nokia tried to make a big todo out of 'you can hold your nokia however you want' when their own instructions say other wise.

so they should have kept their mouths shut.
post #54 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

I don't care how many they show, I replied to this statement, which is incorrect...



If they weren't making any false statements why was the ad banned?

Ads in the UK, as in some other countries of the Eu are not allowed to say a number of things, truthful or not. For example, you're not allowed to compare your product to a competitors. You're not allowed to use generalities the way we can here, where people understand it's not meant to be literal. They're very paternalistic over there.

You don't have to be saying something that's untrue.
post #55 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash-reverse View Post

Which one if I may ask? If you are referring to the apps and apps store, the last time I read, the ASA (Advertising Standard Agency) sided and agree with Apple with their claim that Apple have apps that can do everything and can only be found in iPhone. Did you even read until until the end?

Well there was an ad for the G5 being the world's fastest personal computer which was taken off air in the UK because Apple couldn't substantiate the claim. 2003 if memory serves.
post #56 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper View Post

Well there was an ad for the G5 being the world's fastest personal computer which was taken off air in the UK because Apple couldn't substantiate the claim. 2003 if memory serves.

The thing is, it was at the time, according to comparison tests done by various sites here.

But, as these things go, that wasn't for long.
post #57 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The thing is, it was at the time, according to comparison tests done by various sites here.

But, as these things go, that wasn't for long.

The disagreement was over the compilers used, Apple's favoring the G5 and Intel's favoring the PC, with both sides having what they believed to be valid points. But heck, let's not open that can of worms again.

My point was that there was at least one case I can remember that supported the poster's contention. For all I know, perhaps there are more, but that's conjecture.

Actually you're mistaken about comparative advertising in the UK. I worked there for a while and saw examples of it from time to time, mostly in retail ads. So they are allowed, as the following illustrates:

The Directive requires that the advert:

1. must not be misleading;

2. must objectively compare goods or services meeting the same needs or intended for the same purpose;

3. must objectively compare features of the goods including prices;

4. must not discredit or denigrate the trade marks or other activities or services of the competitor;

5. where it relates to products with a designation of origin, relates only to products with the same designation;

6. must not take unfair advantage of the competitors trade mark or its reputation;

7. must not present the goods or services as imitations or replicas of those bearing the trade mark; and

8. must not create confusion between the advertiser and trade mark owner.

Don't know about the rest of Europe though. Just clarifying so we can move on.
post #58 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Are you still posting that crap from last year, the N97 might be a failure of a device in your viewpoint, but they have had firmware updates since then

And don't forget, Apple had an ad banned in the UK for misrepresentation


And I will keep posting it whenever I want. You have problem with that? I suggest you post something that prove the update fixed the problems. Saying they release an update doesn't help you view point. The N97 UI is crap.
post #59 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

The difference, of course, is that Apple's ads didn't make outright false statements.

Like that add with cute Japanese girl (camera?) happily chitchatting with Mac guy while PC guy was standing clueless.

And we all know that PCs have much more limited support for 3rd party hardware and appliances than Macs.
post #60 of 168
when i touch the antenna on my car, the reception changes.

should i bring back the car or should i bring back the radio?
post #61 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Like that add with cute Japanese girl (camera?) happily chitchatting with Mac guy while PC guy was standing clueless.

And we all know that PCs have much more limited support for 3rd party hardware and appliances than Macs.

Please state a specific lie that Apple told.

The reality is that Macs are much easier to use than PCs. I know a LOT of Windows PC users who aren't able to take advantage of any of that wide range of hardware and software because of the complexity. The same people who seem to be able to use Macs without any difficulty.

There's a difference between having access to something and having it be usable.
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post #62 of 168
When was the last time anyone lined up to get the latest Nokia phone?
post #63 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

Similar to the article about the antennae issue from Price Mclean, this one misses the point and (I feel) is intentionally conflating two separate issues in order to downplay the problem with (a subset of?) the iPhone 4 devices.

As has been repeated a thousand times, all cellular phones --- and all RF devices --- will have their signal strength attenuated to some degree if you cover their antennae with your hands or other body parts. Consequently, many, if not most cell phones will show an increased signal strength when you set it down on a table. No one is disputing this.
In fact, this should also happen with the iPhone 4 to some degree, depending on how much you are covering the antennae portion.

On the other hand, at least some of the iPhone 4 units are experiencing a different phenomenon which is far more disruptive and can lead to a complete loss of signal. This phenomenon only occurs when the antennae is covered in a specific fashion, namely when it is held in a left-hand orientation. Based on all the reports, it almost assuredly is related to the fact that two different external antennae come together on the bottom-left corner of the device. These antennae are electrically separated by a small piece of rubber which keeps them from contacting each other. It appears that when someone holds the iPhone 4 in their left hand --- with their skin contacting both antennae --- they can act as a conductor and short the antennae together. This probably depends on local conditions, skin conductivity, etc, but appears to be widespread.

Some of the questions that immediately come up when this is discussed are:

1) How would Apple's engineers miss such a basic engineering flaw?
2) Why does this only affect certain people and not others?

Additionally, there was a rumor going around that a customer service representative told a customer that there was a manufacturing defect related to some "iPhones not receiving a coating"...

With this information, I think the most rational explanation is that the iPhone 4 was indeed designed to receive a special non-conductive, perhaps anti-corrosive, coating on the stainless-steel antennae during the manufacturing process -- and something went wrong on at least some of the assembly lines

This would easily explain the problem with how Apple's engineers wouldn't see a basic engineering problem. Similarly, coupled with the fact that signal strength is highly variable based upon local conditions/radio frequency/topography, this would also explain why many people are unable to replicate this problem. Their device may not have the manufacturing defect, or perhaps their signal strength is very high and so less affected by the antennae shorting than a device with a lower signal to begin with.

The only part of this situation that is still confusing is Apple's varied responses. I'm beginning to think that once Apple figured out how widespread this manufacturing defect could be, and in order to avoid a costly recall, they decided to downplay the issue and act like the antennae issue is normal behavior.

What do you guys think?

This conclusion definitely explains a lot better than testers only had the phone in a case.

My phone had the issue immediately. My data would download slower and slower. I am on wifi most of the time so the issue hasn't been too bothersome. I took my first call three days after getting the phone and the signal broke up but did not cut out. Probably because I have a cell tower very close to me. I normally use headphones so I don't touch the phone. I will wait three weeks and see what the solution may be and if there isn't one try and exchange my phone at the Apple store. Show them the issue and go from there. My phone does it quickly.

I didn't like Jobs response because I thought he could have said they are aware some issues have been reported then led into could be caused by the antenna, holding etc. and they will continue to review the issues. Instead he dismissed what is a serious issue for some, we didn't buy an iPod touch 4.
post #64 of 168
oh, snap!
post #65 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiwan View Post

This conclusion definitely explains a lot better than testers only had the phone in a case.

My phone had the issue immediately. My data would download slower and slower. I am on wifi most of the time so the issue hasn't been too bothersome. I took my first call three days after getting the phone and the signal broke up but did not cut out. Probably because I have a cell tower very close to me. I normally use headphones so I don't touch the phone. I will wait three weeks and see what the solution may be and if there isn't one try and exchange my phone at the Apple store. Show them the issue and go from there. My phone does it quickly.

I didn't like Jobs response because I thought he could have said they are aware some issues have been reported then led into could be caused by the antenna, holding etc. and they will continue to review the issues. Instead he dismissed what is a serious issue for some, we didn't buy an iPod touch 4.

I'm not convinced it's an "engineering flaw" at all, much less a basic one.

From what I've seen and heard, it's more of a software issue. I suspect what remains of it after that's addressed will be no more or less than any device with antennae for broadcast/reception... wrap a hand around it, the signal will diminish.

Apple has sold nearly 2 million of them in a week. I'd say the ratio of "problem units" is pretty tiny, and well within acceptable limits. It sucks to have problems when you want perfect (and isn't it interesting how we've come to expect 'perfect' from Apple), but in my experience they've always been good at sorting those out quickly (and taking care of their customers).

The fact there have been no major, universal problems is actually a testament to their engineering, design and quality control...

Let's see where things stand in a couple of weeks. I think most of the early issues (screen spots, reception, proximity sensor) will be things of the past... minor launch hiccups.
post #66 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

If they weren't making any false statements why was the ad banned?

Well, there was the thing about "all parts of the Internet."
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10026842-37.html

They said that the iPhone showed you "all parts of the Internet," but since it doesn't support Flash and Java (and presumably many less popular data formats) this claim was deemed unsubstantiated. I can sort of see why, but it seems kind of ridiculous. Whether or not their statement was "false" seems kind of a subjective call. Maybe Budweiser isn't really the "King of Beers" either. Heck, in one sense, Budweiser® isn't even literally Budweiser, since "Budweiser" means from Budweis (the German name for the Czech town of České Budějovice).

I wonder if they will be able to run the ad in a few years if Flash and Java decline in Internet use.
post #67 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsonice View Post

How does one hold a Nokia?

With a barge pole. Nokia phones are nothing but pure unadulterated crap. They are cheap badly assembled and break at the slightest hint of anything.

Nokia should go back to being a company that manufactures wood chips.

I tend to disagree.

My company phone is "crappy" Nokia E63. Plastic thing with (comparably) small display, horrible menu and no 150000 applications available.

However, since I'm carrying it around every workday 9-5, I did notice more than couple of spots around Auckland NZ where my iPhone 3Gs would give me 1 bar at best, "No Service" at worst, where Nokia would work happily ever after, loosing not more than 2 out of 7 signal bars. Both on local Vodafone 3G network.

Initially I worried there is issue with my 3Gs, but I noticed same behaviour with my wife's, my colleague's and one of our client's 3Gs... so I accepted something that is for me simple fact - 3Gs has very mediocre radio built in. I'm actually wondering if in US AT&T isn't being accused for iPhone's shortcomings.

Would I swap my 3Gs for E63 as my personal phone? No way. I'm not too demanding on calls, but I do use my 3Gs as ebook reader, YouTube viewer, browser, Facebook portal... so concept of multifunctional gadget works fine for me, even with modest phone functionality. But still, for 1/3 of a price E63 is better PHONE with efficient (albeit not as elegant) calendar and texting, and basic emailing (text only). For people who require call reliability above anything else, I can't say I could recommend iPhone over such Nokia.
post #68 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash-reverse View Post

Which one if I may ask? If you are referring to the apps and apps store, the last time I read, the ASA (Advertising Standard Agency) sided and agree with Apple with their claim that Apple have apps that can do everything and can only be found in iPhone. Did you even read until until the end?

No I didn't read to the end of that one, because that isn't the one I am talking about.

It was the one where they misled people in regard to the speed of the iPhone 3G.

http://www.asa.org.uk/Complaints-and...ADJ_45381.aspx
post #69 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

The fact that you don't care 'how many they show' tells me that you have no clue as to how to sensibly interpret data.

If thousands and thousands of ads are being shown across the world and one of them, the same one as that shown in other countries, was found to contain 'false statements' in one country, it could quite likely be the mistake of the regulator as well. That could be equally a valid reason for why the ad was banned. No one else seemed to have a problem with it (not even the rest of the EU, to which the UK belongs).

Now if I get this right, it is ok to mislead people, only if you do it in a low percentage to the number of ads you do?
post #70 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Not too many people seem to care much about Nokia launch days. That's not just here. Maybe in Europe somewhere.

I'm afraid that is just your myopic view of the world.
post #71 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

I tend to disagree.

However, since I'm carrying it around every workday 9-5, I did notice more than couple of spots around Auckland NZ where my iPhone 3Gs would give me 1 bar at best, "No Service" at worst, where Nokia would work happily ever after, loosing not more than 2 out of 7 signal bars. Both on local Vodafone 3G network.

Initially I worried there is issue with my 3Gs, but I noticed same behaviour with my wife's, my colleague's and one of our client's 3Gs... so I accepted something that is for me simple fact - 3Gs has very mediocre radio built in. I'm actually wondering if in US AT&T isn't being accused for iPhone's shortcomings.

Do you find there's a Vodafone "black hole" around Tamaki Drive near Okahu Bay? I regularly drop calls on my E63 in that area although it seems bulletproof pretty much every place else in Ork. Goes without saying I suppose that the wife's iPhone drops out there as well.
post #72 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Thanks (if true). It's amazing how some of these urban myths persist and propagate.

Yes here is another example, he is referring to the wrong ad.
post #73 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

And I will keep posting it whenever I want. You have problem with that? I suggest you post something that prove the update fixed the problems. Saying they release an update doesn't help you view point. The N97 UI is crap.

Yes I do have a problem with that. It makes as much sense as me saying the iPhone isn't a smartphone because you couldn't install apps on the original software, things have changed, maybe your limited viewpoint should change as well.
post #74 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Now if I get this right, it is ok to mislead people, only if you do it in a low percentage to the number of ads you do?

You don't get this right.

Give up, and stop embarrassing yourself.
post #75 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

You don't get this right.

Give up, and stop embarrassing yourself.

He seems to enjoy it. Seems a bit masochistic to me.
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post #76 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post

when i touch the antenna on my car, the reception changes.

should i bring back the car or should i bring back the radio?

Do you touch the antenna while driving? (you can't)

Can you bridge the iPhone 4 two antennas while holding it normally with your left hand? (you can)
post #77 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Yes I do have a problem with that. It makes as much sense as me saying the iPhone isn't a smartphone because you couldn't install apps on the original software, things have changed, maybe your limited viewpoint should change as well.

The difference is that I can show you that the original iPhone can install apps sine 2008. Can you show me how Nokia solved the crappy N97 UI?!
post #78 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiwan View Post

This conclusion definitely explains a lot better than testers only had the phone in a case.

My phone had the issue immediately. My data would download slower and slower. I am on wifi most of the time so the issue hasn't been too bothersome. I took my first call three days after getting the phone and the signal broke up but did not cut out. Probably because I have a cell tower very close to me. I normally use headphones so I don't touch the phone. I will wait three weeks and see what the solution may be and if there isn't one try and exchange my phone at the Apple store. Show them the issue and go from there. My phone does it quickly.

I didn't like Jobs response because I thought he could have said they are aware some issues have been reported then led into could be caused by the antenna, holding etc. and they will continue to review the issues. Instead he dismissed what is a serious issue for some, we didn't buy an iPod touch 4.

I'm not so sure about that. I do a lot of work with SS. None of those coatings are non conductive. If Apple were going to coat the SS, it would have to be with some sort of varnish. Varnish can be plastic or otherwise. But it would be obvious when looked at and felt. I'm now curious about how these phones are doing overall. It wouldn't be possible for 1.7 million phones to have missed this supposed coating. When I handled one in an Apple store here, there was no obvious coating on the metal. I'll have to look more carefully.
post #79 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post

when i touch the antenna on my car, the reception changes.

should i bring back the car or should i bring back the radio?

If they'd built the antenna into the steering wheel and hadn't told me that it might negatively affect the reception of my radio then I believe I'd take the car back, unless they could guarantee a simple software fix could resolve my reception problem and it would be done by this Monday. Or guarantee that it was a bad batch and they'd offer a free hardware fix.

I don't think I'd accept a day-glo jelly-plastic steeringwheel cover though.

But I speculate, not owning the hypothetical car with the antenna in the steering wheel. So my answer doesn't count.
post #80 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

I'm afraid that is just your myopic view of the world.

Of interest to you then;

http://www.thebestdigital.com/nokias...-pressure.html

They are are the way down even their home market. All they post is poor guidance, and their stock is a fraction of what it was a few years ago. o one really cares about what they do. They're flailing about with OS's for their top phones, because nothing is helping.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/2105...m?source=email
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