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Law firm exploring class action suit over iPhone 4 reception issues

post #1 of 317
Thread Starter 
A California law firm has asked iPhone 4 customers to share their experiences with reception on Apple's new handset, laying the groundwork for a potential class-action lawsuit.

Kershaw, Cutter & Ratinoff LLP posted word of a new "consumer investigation" on its website this week. The firm has asked iPhone 4 owners with reception issues to speak with them.

"KCR is currently investigating potential problems with the release of iPhone 4," the law firm, dubbed "injury attorneys on their website, wrote. "If you recently purchased the new iPhone and have experienced poor reception quality, dropped calls and weak signals, we would like to hear from you. Please call us toll free at (888) 285-3333, click "live chat" above to immediately speak with a KCR representative, or email us for more details."

The same law firm also filed a suit last November against Facebook for what it has argued are misleading advertisements found in games like Mafia Wars and FarmVille from Zynga. That federal class-action suit was filed in a district court in Northern California, and alleges that some ads found in the online games trick customers into signing up for recurring text messages with monthly fees, or mail-order products tied to a subscription.

Reports that Apple's latest handset can lose reception when gripped wit the left hand began to gain traction last week. On some devices, covering or even just touching the point on the metal perimeter antennas meet on the bottom left corner of the phone can cause loss of signal and even dropped calls.

When Apple announced the iPhone 4 earlier this month, the company revealed that the metal band around the outside of the device has breaks in it to allow the multiple antennas inside the device -- for cellular service, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and more -- to establish connections. The larger metal piece on the right side of the phone serves as the GSM/UMTS cellular antenna, and the smaller portion on the left side is responsible for Bluetooth, Wi-Fi and GPS.

Apple publicly responded to reports and said that any mobile phone has reception issues when held improperly. The company suggested that customers avoid gripping the handset in the lower left corner, or use "one of many available cases" to prevent one's skin from touching the metal band.

This week, rival handset maker Nokia even attempted to poke fun at the publicity over iPhone 4 reception, asking customers to share how they hold their Nokia. But evidence of Nokia's own reception issues when some handsets are held has also surfaced, demonstrating the issue lies in many phones beyond the iPhone 4.
post #2 of 317
Maybe we should give them a rev to fix the issues before suing them. Yes, having a few issues, but still the best phone I have ever used overall.

I wonder what new invention out there won't make it to market because the inventor is scared of getting sued back into the stone age.
post #3 of 317
Yep have to love it, technology ambulance chasers.....
post #4 of 317
As many people have pointed out, this affects all phones, and even further, radio devices.

So are they doing a class action against every manufacturer of radio equipment which doesn't get 100% reception everywhere and under every circulstance?

Phil
post #5 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by womble2k2 View Post

As many people have pointed out, this affects all phones, and even further, radio devices.

So are they doing a class action against every manufacturer of radio equipment which doesn't get 100% reception everywhere and under every circulstance?

Phil

Nope, they're just going to sue Apple because being anti-Apple is the new fad. But then again, I wouldn't trust them to hit the broad side of a barn with a bulldozer, what with them suing Facebook for Zynga's ads.
post #6 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by womble2k2 View Post

As many people have pointed out, this affects all phones, and even further, radio devices.

So are they doing a class action against every manufacturer of radio equipment which doesn't get 100% reception everywhere and under every circulstance?

Phil

While I think the lawsuit is ridiculous, there IS a problem for quite a few people. Holding my iPhone 4 normally in my left hand results in 1 bar or "No Service" within 30 seconds and I can't make calls or connect to the internet. I don't even have to do a tight "death grip" on it, I just merely need to place it slightly cupped in my hand.

If I do this with my wife's 3GS, I might see one bar drop, but I can still make calls and the download/upload 3G speeds are barely affected.

Now, those are just my results. Other people have mentioned similar findings -- so instead of everyone blindly defending Apple, can some of you at least acknowledge that something is going on that is not the fault of the customer?
post #7 of 317
Looks like the leeches are out to make a fast buck. In the end the lawyers get millions, and the members of the class action each get a $10 coupon.
post #8 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

While I think the lawsuit is ridiculous, there IS a problem for quite a few people. Holding my iPhone 4 normally in my left hand results in 1 bar or "No Service" within 30 seconds and I can't make calls or connect to the internet. I don't even have to do a tight "death grip" on it, I just merely need to place it slightly cupped in my hand.

If I do this with my wife's 3GS, I might see one bar drop, but I can still make calls and the download/upload 3G speeds are barely affected.

Now, those are just my results. Other people have mentioned similar findings -- so instead of everyone blindly defending Apple, can some of you at least acknowledge that something is going on that is not the fault of the customer?

Take a moment and read the first comment, it does just that.
post #9 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by womble2k2 View Post

As many people have pointed out, this affects all phones, and even further, radio devices.

So are they doing a class action against every manufacturer of radio equipment which doesn't get 100% reception everywhere and under every circulstance?

Phil

Name one phone that can have its communications disabled with a single finger touch to the external case? Other than the iPhone 4 that is!
post #10 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

Maybe we should give them a rev to fix the issues before suing them. Yes, having a few issues, but still the best phone I have ever used overall.

I wonder what new invention out there won't make it to market because the inventor is scared of getting sued back into the stone age.

The only thing is Iphone 4 is not a new invention and a reception issue has always been its flaw. If the reception is worse than in the 3Gs that going backwards not forward...

Also I would say this lawsuit would be ridiculous if not for Jobs comment on the issues and the fact they selling an accessory to correct the issue making a profit off something they had to know about beforehand.
post #11 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

Take a moment and read the first comment, it does just that.

Then look at the next three comments
post #12 of 317
Sam Oliver is one of the better writers here, but I hate to break it to you Sam but the issue with the iPhone 4 isn't signal attenuation, but rather a 'shorting' of the two antennae, as it's called. The other issue you refer to is common in phones, but this issue is different.

But the when Ireland points out this round here he's labeled a troll. I'm glad Arn over at Macrumors sticks up for me, no such luck from the mods round here.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #13 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

While I think the lawsuit is ridiculous, there IS a problem for quite a few people. Holding my iPhone 4 normally in my left hand results in 1 bar or "No Service" within 30 seconds and I can't make calls or connect to the internet. I don't even have to do a tight "death grip" on it, I just merely need to place it slightly cupped in my hand.

If I do this with my wife's 3GS, I might see one bar drop, but I can still make calls and the download/upload 3G speeds are barely affected.

Now, those are just my results. Other people have mentioned similar findings -- so instead of everyone blindly defending Apple, can some of you at least acknowledge that something is going on that is not the fault of the customer?

Only someone who hates Apple would say this. I see you've joined that fad. You used to be cool, but now you're just a hater. We want the old 'Mazda3' back.

This is the type of reply I expect you to get. What is it with people living in denial round here. It definitely puts a spot-light on the fruit loops.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #14 of 317
I usually just sigh when I hear about a lawsuit against Apple, but in this case there is actually a grounding for the case.

I've checked 3 different iPhone 4's from friends, I know the US has a shit network (AT&T) but O2 and Orange both have excellent reception where I am, all 3 phones went from 5 bars to 1/no bars when the phone was cupped in th left hand.

This is a BIG issue, Apple has dropped the ball on this one, if it's simply a software fix thats needed and I hope it is, then great if not Apple deserves to get sued and need to pay out.
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post #15 of 317
An informative article explaining the differences between attenuation and detuning. The issue with the iPhone 4 is detuning due to the flawed design of holding it and shorting out two antennas. A first for a cell phone.

http://www.antennasys.com/antennasys...like-this.html
post #16 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by kresh View Post

Name one phone that can have its communications disabled with a single finger touch to the external case? Other than the iPhone 4 that is!

You just said something negative against Apple so it must be false. lol
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #17 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

I usually just sigh when I hear about a lawsuit against Apple, but in this case there is actually a grounding for the case.

I've checked 3 different iPhone 4's from friends, I know the US has a shit network (AT&T) but O2 and Orange both have excellent reception where I am, all 3 phones went from 5 bars to 1/no bars when the phone was cupped in th left hand.

This is a BIG issue, Apple has dropped the ball on this one, if it's simply a software fix thats needed and I hope it is, then great if not Apple deserves to get sued and need to pay out.

While the Class Action lawsuits in the US are really just ambulance chasing, one can only hope that the EU will get involved and take a really large bite out of Apple over this fiasco!

It is up to you Apple, admit it and fix it or get the hammer!
post #18 of 317
The level of denial here is amazing. How much would Apple have to screw up before you all stop defending them?

For two years I have had terrible audio quality and dropped calls on my 3G. Yet the iPhone flies off the shelves and the community here makes excuse after excuse for Apple and ATT. "We don't need to make phone calls. We don't need Verizon."

Now that everyone is dropping calls (granted for different reasons) all of a sudden this is so unacceptable we're going to get lawyers. Yeah, it IS maddening when you keep dropping calls, isn't it?

I'm glad the Kool Aid has finally worn off for others as it did for me when I was stranded on the side of the road with no signal on my shiny pretty iPhone.

I have asked it before and will continue to ask: What good is a smartphone that can't make phone calls?
post #19 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by rattlertech View Post

The only thing is Iphone 4 is not a new invention and a reception issue has always been its flaw. If the reception is worse than in the 3Gs that going backwards not forward...

Also I would say this lawsuit would be ridiculous if not for Jobs comment on the issues and the fact they selling an accessory to correct the issue making a profit off something they had to know about beforehand.

Yeah, Jobs' response pretty much dictated the cases these guys have with their case. Apple may have walked into it.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #20 of 317
Pardon me for being dumb, but couldn't Apple just give out a new iphone 4 to people with defective iphone 4's?

If so, what is the lawsuit about?

Pain and suffering?
post #21 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

The level of denial here is amazing. How much would Apple have to screw up before you all stop defending them?

For two years I have had terrible audio quality and dropped calls on my 3G. Yet the iPhone flies off the shelves and the community here makes excuse after excuse for Apple and ATT. "We don't need to make phone calls. We don't need Verizon."

Now that everyone is dropping calls (granted for different reasons) all of a sudden this is so unacceptable we're going to get lawyers. Yeah, it IS maddening when you keep dropping calls, isn't it?

I'm glad the Kool Aid has finally worn off for others as it did for me when I was stranded on the side of the road with no signal on my shiny pretty iPhone.

I have asked it before and will continue to ask: What good is a smartphone that can't make phone calls?

To be fair, your issue sounds like you live in a bad coverage area. And not simple because you touch the phone in the wrong spot or hold the phone.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #22 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

The level of denial here is amazing. How much would Apple have to screw up before you all stop defending them?

For two years I have had terrible audio quality and dropped calls on my 3G. Yet the iPhone flies off the shelves and the community here makes excuse after excuse for Apple and ATT. "We don't need to make phone calls. We don't need Verizon."

Now that everyone is dropping calls (granted for different reasons) all of a sudden this is so unacceptable we're going to get lawyers. Yeah, it IS maddening when you keep dropping calls, isn't it?

I'm glad the Kool Aid has finally worn off for others as it did for me when I was stranded on the side of the road with no signal on my shiny pretty iPhone.

I have asked it before and will continue to ask: What good is a smartphone that can't make phone calls?

To be fair a lot of the reception issues do seem to be due to the rather crap AT&T, on a visit to the US I was amazed at how bad the call quality, reception and network performance was and decided to never complain about O2 again!
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post #23 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katonah View Post

what is the lawsuit about?

It is about Steve Jobs saying "There is no reception issue". In other words lying to the customer to conceal a defect forcing the customer to seek remediation from the courts.
post #24 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katonah View Post

Pardon me for being dumb, but couldn't Apple just give out a new iphone 4 to people with defective iphone 4's?

If so, what is the lawsuit about?

Pain and suffering?

That's what the suit is about, Apple said your holding it wrong or buy a case. The never said if you have the issue we'll give you a new phone. That would have been acceptable.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #25 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katonah View Post

Pardon me for being dumb, but couldn't Apple just give out a new iphone 4 to people with defective iphone 4's?

If so, what is the lawsuit about?

Pain and suffering?

Apple could very well do this, and should do it, if it is truly a hardware flaw. But this will be very costly and time consuming to design a fix to this issue and replace all the phones. While their sales suffer after they finally admit the issue. Will Apple do this on their own, or do they need to be forced to do it ? So far, all we have heard from Apple is denial.
post #26 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by kresh View Post

While the Class Action lawsuits in the US are really just ambulance chasing, one can only hope that the EU will get involved and take a really large bite out of Apple over this fiasco!

It is up to you Apple, admit it and fix it or get the hammer!

If you are not happy then take the iPhone back and get your money back.
No need for a lawsuit!!
post #27 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

I usually just sigh when I hear about a lawsuit against Apple, but in this case there is actually a grounding for the case.

I've checked 3 different iPhone 4's from friends, I know the US has a shit network (AT&T) but O2 and Orange both have excellent reception where I am, all 3 phones went from 5 bars to 1/no bars when the phone was cupped in th left hand.

This is a BIG issue, Apple has dropped the ball on this one, if it's simply a software fix thats needed and I hope it is, then great if not Apple deserves to get sued and need to pay out.

I agree that if it effects you, this is no doubt a right royal pain in the arse, but does it really merit a lawsuit? Surely if it doesn't work for you the options are:
  1. Take it back.
  2. Trust Apple to provide a fix.

This is a flaw in the American system which hampers creativity and the economy in general. If something happens you don't like, call the lawyers.
post #28 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

While I think the lawsuit is ridiculous, there IS a problem for quite a few people. Holding my iPhone 4 normally in my left hand results in 1 bar or "No Service" within 30 seconds and I can't make calls or connect to the internet. I don't even have to do a tight "death grip" on it, I just merely need to place it slightly cupped in my hand.

If I do this with my wife's 3GS, I might see one bar drop, but I can still make calls and the download/upload 3G speeds are barely affected.

Now, those are just my results. Other people have mentioned similar findings -- so instead of everyone blindly defending Apple, can some of you at least acknowledge that something is going on that is not the fault of the customer?

I agree...I am in the same boat as you. I don't really agree with a class action suit yet. Lets give Apple a chance to fix the issue. But the response so far from Apple has not been encouraging. If we hold our phone in a normal fashion we should have a reasonable expectation that it should work.
If I hold my 4G in the same way I help my 3GS I had for the last year then I get "No Service" within 30 seconds.
I demonstrated this to a Apple store a manger and he is ordering me a replacement.
They ran it through a battery of test and could find nothing wrong with the phone other than loss of service when being held in my hand!
they said an update might fix the way the phone reports the signal but..........it seems the phone I have has issues and would rather have one that reports the signal correctly...without an update....
Thats just my experiences. I am told the phones with the signal issues are small.

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post #29 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

That's what the suit is about, Apple said your holding it wrong or buy a case. The never said if you have the issue we'll give you a new phone. That would have been acceptable.

Just take it back. If Apple see a boatload of these things being returned you can bet they will provide a fix pretty damn quickly.

Of course if they only see one or two coming back because this is another example of a small problem being blown out of proportion on the Internet, that'll be different.
post #30 of 317
Unbelievable! Not really. The iPhone has been out a week. Some users are reporting reception problems. More users are reporting how much they like the iPhone. And there is already talk of a law suit? Business must be slow.
post #31 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

To be fair, your issue sounds like you live in a bad coverage area. And not simple because you touch the phone in the wrong spot or hold the phone.

I admitted as much in my post. But the end result is the same so I think it's fair.
post #32 of 317
Makes me wonder what the criteria are for a class acton lawsuit are. A case such as Toyota's runaway acceleration resulting in injury, property damage etc - I can see that - even if only to cover the cost of proactive - preemptive corrective action.

But in the case of the iPhone - except for Apple's denial that it is a problem - wouldn't it at least be useful to find out just how many units are affected - or whether it is a hardware or software or network issue.

I understand that inability to make calls or dropped calls etc could have a financial impact on users - unable to conduct business or even just paying for service you are not in fact able to use - but as previously posted - it seems that giving them a reasonable amount of time to figure out just what is going on and come up with a solution seems prudent. Its not like we have documented evidence of a known issue 6 months ago that has deliberately been covered up.

From everything I have read - it does seem that there is a legitimate issue affecting at least a portion of units and users - and needs to be addressed by Apple and or AT&T.

The only thing - so far - that really concerns me - is that (according to reports) Apple has either dismissed the concerns as user error or inherent to all cell phones - and that the concern is not being seriously investigated by Apple.

If anything - at this point - I would think - that the ONLY thing that dissatisfied users should be entitled to is a return policy including a full refund with no penalty if they should choose to return the phone and terminate their contract (or replace it with a different model with new contract).

Maybe the seeking user info phase of the process is just to send Apple a wake up call that they cannot ignore this. oh i know - its a plot by Apple to sell all 10 million of the Verizon compatible iPhones they have stock piled in the first two days of its release any day now...
post #33 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Apple could very well do this, and should do it, if it is truly a hardware flaw. But this will be very costly and time consuming to design a fix to this issue and replace all the phones. While their sales suffer after they finally admit the issue. Will Apple do this on their own, or do they need to be forced to do it ? So far, all we have heard from Apple is denial.

I agree...the problem is Apple is denying the whole issue.
If I hold the phone like Steve did in his keynote presentation then I get "No Service" within 30 seconds.
But he should not tell everyone "your holding the phone wrong" or "non issue".....
That just sparks lawsuits like this one.....
BUT I think suing at this point is extremely premature. Apple hasn't had a chance to formally address or fix the issue yet......
They did say they would replace my phone when they get more phones in my local Apple store.

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post #34 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCMacUser View Post

Yep have to love it, technology ambulance chasers.....

Yep have to love it, forum commenter ignorance ...
post #35 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonder View Post

If you are not happy then take the iPhone back and get your money back.
No need for a lawsuit!!

I did take mine back, now what do I do with the several hundred iOS only apps that I bought? Live with my 3GS? Just bite the bullet and move on to a different platform? Blindly praise Apple? Just what exactly?
post #36 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCMacUser View Post

Yep have to love it, technology ambulance chasers.....

Couldn't agree more.

If Apple doesn't fix the issue, I think we can all agree that there is a reason to bring in the lawyers, but it's only been ~4 days.
post #37 of 317
If anyone needs to be taken to court over this, it is the sly FCC, not Apple. The regulatory hand of the US government is what really limits your reception, folks.
post #38 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A California law firm has asked iPhone 4 customers to share their experiences with reception on Apple's new handset, laying the groundwork for a potential class-action lawsuit.

OK. So those having problems with their new iPhones quit the rhetoric and call them toll free: 1-888-285-333.

Kershaw, Cutter & Ratinoff are what we call, true ambulance chasers http://www.kcrlegal.com/

Heck, as previously suggested, everybody call them. Surely they would love to hear every potential complaint or for that matter from all those who aren't having problems.

And heck, why not get a special Skype account as well to do so. Your call will be free in any case for US callers, although for the law firm, it won't be. And for the foreign callers it's like 2 cents/minute. Perhaps they will open up some international offices.

Flood them with emails. In the meantime, Apple, in true form, will resolve the issue one way or another. Except, however, for the trollers who will continue to complain, never seeing the product, let alone owning it, who will never be happy as long as Apple is successful.
post #39 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

The level of denial here is amazing. How much would Apple have to screw up before you all stop defending them?

For two years I have had terrible audio quality and dropped calls on my 3G. Yet the iPhone flies off the shelves and the community here makes excuse after excuse for Apple and ATT. "We don't need to make phone calls. We don't need Verizon."

Now that everyone is dropping calls (granted for different reasons) all of a sudden this is so unacceptable we're going to get lawyers. Yeah, it IS maddening when you keep dropping calls, isn't it?

I'm glad the Kool Aid has finally worn off for others as it did for me when I was stranded on the side of the road with no signal on my shiny pretty iPhone.

I have asked it before and will continue to ask: What good is a smartphone that can't make phone calls?

Umm... I never had a problem with my reception or service until now. So yes, for the past 2 years with my iPhone 3G, I couldn't complain about the network or the service. Now, my iPhone 4 won't load a simple web page if I'm holding it comfortably. That's what we're complaining about. Not some freak accident dropped calls.
post #40 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by womble2k2 View Post

As many people have pointed out, this affects all phones, and even further, radio devices. So are they doing a class action against every manufacturer of radio equipment which doesn't get 100% reception everywhere and under every circulstance?

Phil

We should also include satellite TV in this, which gets worse reception when the weather is bad.
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