Law firm exploring class action suit over iPhone 4 reception issues - Page 4

yes, unless i haven't been keeping up with current laws regarding "e"-communitcations, i don't believe that emails are admissable as evidence, since tracking a source to email is quite difficult to associate to a single user.

Assuming you have the new iPhone and are not a fanboi - let's show you exactly how to replicate this problem.

First, if you are in an area with a strong signal - you likely will NOT be able to replicate the issue.

Travel to an area with 1-3 bars when the iPhone is sitting on a chair, or is in a case. Now, take the iPhone out of the case, and try to make a phone call. If you are in an area with poor coverage (shouldn't be too difficult to find in the USA - we are talking about AT&T); chances are very good that you will either drop down to 1 bar, or lose AT&T entirely.

I work in a building in an area that has poor coverage, and without the iPhone case; my phone is practically useless as a phone.

If they won the lawsuit, and every iPhone owner could get a new iPhone according to a new Apple press release, some people around here will still be living in denial. I can just picture the comments:

"Just 'cause they gave everyone a new phone doesn't make it a real issue; it's just a reflection of how bad the legal system in the US is."

Doesn't disable mine. I can reduce the indicated signal strength. Can't disable it. Have had fewer dropped calls (one in five days) than with my 3GS. Signal strength is routinely higher than it was on the previous phone, location-for-location, compared to the 3GS. Upload and download speeds blow away the 3GS. I've read many reports of people being able to reduce indicated signal strength, and a much smaller number of reports of people who can induce a dropped call but even then only in a small geographic area.

Your hyperbole makes your post pointless.

You might have said--more honestly--that some people are having some problems. That it's a problem that when it occurs, occurs in what's a pretty common grip. It needs to be fixed for them. And you might have said Steve's response of, "you're holding it wrong," is sort of insulting or at least embarrassing, as much as i like the man and his inclination to respond pithily to the company's customers.

btw, I wrote the law firm and told them that although i can replicate the drop in signal strength, i am unable to induce a dropped call, and get better reception (more bars, fewer dropped calls) than with my former phone. Maybe if a lot of people (on both sides of the issue) reported their results to the company--NOT just those with problems--the lawyers would have to acknowledge that in their court proceedings.

I have Iphone 4 and I live in Fremont , CA . I do not have any issues with reception or dropping calls or proximity sensor .. It is my third Iphone and best of all three.. Battery has improved and while i use GPS for Bike ride and turn by turn direction, Battery last much longer than before... I tried with my friends at work to hold it every which way to have drop bars and we were not successful ... May be we are not doing it right... .
One thing I LIKE to point out is , if everyone likes to be the first , you have to be ready to be first for good and bad ...Otherwise wait till bugs are fixed and by then plenty are available and I have moved on to buy the next upgrade...

Apple's official stance was "There is NO problem with the iPhone G4". For Apple to admit a problem, will mean that they will be fiscally responsible for several million dollars worth of faulty equipment. If Apple continues to follow the "No problem with the iPhone tract"; then the only way to force them to the table to address the issue, is legal means.

The smart response would be to neither confirm, nor deny an issue. Simply state that "Apple is looking into this". Then use this delay time to produce a iOS patch that corrects the issue (plus the issue of the face detection not working, such that you can easily turn on the speakerphone, mute function or hang up on your call if the phone touches your cheek during a call).

Very few products are launched without a single errata that is later corrected with an update.

How do you know this issue only affects a very small percentage ? And how do you all iPhone 4's are not affected ? It could just depend on the user's location (frequency band used/ signal strength, etc). There are a lot of assumptions on your part.

The problem I see is that ANY type of class action usually results in the customer getting some "crappy" sort of resolution while the lawyer gets millions. I agree that Apple does need to do something to resolve this issue, but I don't think a lawyer would help us Apple users. Unless, there was a user who was a lawyer, who just wanted the problem fixed and not make a ton of money on suing Apple. All a class action would do in the end for the users is get them a rubber bumper. I think we would like the problem fixed, not band-aided while a law firm that could give 2 sh@ts about us makes a ton of money off our issues.

Your asking to be called a troll, I hope you know. And you don't need to have between 1-3 bars. I've seen it happen with 5 bars. The issue may be dependent on a several complex factors, all stemming from a bad design conception. Some people claim the issue is fixable with software, and that the software to fix this is due out yesterday or today. The reality is: Apple didn't even claim that. Apple even said it was a non issue. We've yet to see Apple actually admit there's a problem with the phone.

i said it before and i'll say it again. I'm from Argentina, i had the iphone edge, and now my 3G for more than a year (i'm waiting for the 4). I Never, i repeat it, Never had a problem with my iphones, not a dropped call, always ok. The best thing is that we are a "third world" country, so our cell networks are supposed to be really crappy (compared to the US ones). My point with all this is: stop complaining about the iphone or apple and all those reception issues or dropped calls, the problem is AT&T, not the phone. My friends have iphones too and never heard them saying something about that.
I'm sure that the left hand reception problem will be fixed soon with a firmware update, but apple doesn't have all the fault.

:-)

I doubt that if they won every iPhone user would get a new phone. More likely a free rubber bumper. My issue is that it's too premature to talk about a class action, and I think any type of class action should be taken on by Apple users who are lawyers and not someone looking to cash in on somebody else's issues with a product.

I'll just have to assume that you have descended into madness.

I don't see users only getting a rubber bumper, 'cause Apple would be forced to answer some tough questions. I don't love lawyers or class action suits, but as of now Apple don't feel obliged to treat is users with respect by giving them a decent response. Apple may be selling a lot of iPhones now, but as word spreads I see this issue affecting their sales compared to if they didn't have the issue. It personally put me off buying the phone, and I know of others it has put off too. Theses are people who like the iPhone, like myself, though if you were to listen to some people around here you'd think I hated the iPhone as a device. This is FUD. No, Apple isn't doomed, but if you think this won't affect Apple in any way you've (not you personally) your head in the clouds.

I disagree. With such a high profile company, a high profile product, and a high profile issue, threating a lawsuit and exposing this issue further may help force the hand of Apple to fix the issue before it ever gets close to going to court. But if people let this major issue slide, Apple might just sweep this under the carpet.

You can assume what you like.

Actually I am stuck with my 3g for a few more weeks, then I will be a free agent. And while it may be off topic, may I say that updating to iOS4 has made my 3G as useless in every way as it is for making phone calls. An inglorious end to my first iPhone experience.

I went to the Apple store in Wayne NJ sunday and beheld the new iPhone 4. I compared the screen to mine and it was quite a blow away experience. It is with great regret that I cannot continue with an iPhone in my family of Mac products. I have everything Apple makes in my home and love the integration and all that.

As tempted as I might be to stick it out and hope for an ATT miracle by the end of summer (as Jobs hinted at during D8) reading about all these reception issues you all are having tells me what I have to do. Stay away from the iPhone.

I had better get off before Ireland finds out I am still babbling. I don't want to get in anymore trouble than I already am.

Apple is doomed, let's kill flash, spot on, totally agree.

Yeah, come on Ireland. I like you, but you're kind of stepping in it here. Read between the lines and don't worry about being right on this one.

That's not the issue with the iPhone 4. That's not the issue with the iPhone 4.

Most of the people complaining about the iPhone 4 had great reception on their older iPhones. The issue is the hardware, and the fact that your hand touches the antennae. And it affects every country who's gotten the iPhone 4. You talking about bad coverage, that's not the issue here.

This is why I believe Steve's off-the-cuff emails will be the source of a growing rift between himself and the BoD, again.

There is a lot that I don't know about this issue. I know that I can reproduce the signal loss in ANY location with my new phone. I also know that while talking to the Apple store manager on saturday I could show him the exact issue and reproduce it for him. I know for a fact that 4 other 4G phone owners that were in the store could NOT produce the same error. I know for a fact that the only Apple representative I talked to was the store manager. His assesment was about 1% of the 4G owers were having this issue. So not everyone is having this issue. We need more data and time to really see what the issue is.
Also his representation was not official. It was just his opinion based on what he saw in his store.
I can only base my assumptions on my experiences.
I upgraded from a 3GS that had no issues. I could hold it anyway I wanted and make calls without getting dropped. I had no problem with AT&T service before my new 4G phone.
So what are your experiences with your 4G?

Being right? Give me a break.

Apple is not doomed, that joke is getting old. I told you you were babbling 'cause you response looked like you didn't even read my comment.

I have been put off too, but I remember the scratching incident with the iPod Nano. There was a class action and Apple settled and gave everyone a free case. Apple wouldn't be forced to answer anything as they can refute the motion as trade secrets and the Judge would seal any type of communication on the technical aspect of what is going on with these phones. Thus, the public would never know and Apple would, without admitting fault, give the users a free bumper to compensate for the issue, and would replace the phones that would not be resolved by a free bumper. They would instruct the Geniuses to blame all of the problems on not having the bumper and very few users would get a new phone unless they made a scene at the store or on the phone with Applecare.

This scenario could happen WITHOUT a class action suit. My point is that Apple NEVER feels obligated UNLESS we get together ourselves and document the issue and present a united front to Apple.

Apple might be dragging it's feet, or they might be seriously working on fixing the problem. You have to give them more time. I agree that saying nothing is bad, but Apple rarely says they screwed up right away.

I agree about the threat, but don't mistake the lawyers motive for the threat. They want money and could care less about your issue. It's already in the press about the phone and there are a ton of people who are waiting to get it fixed or will buy something else.

Nokia and others are already taking pot shots at Apple. It's only a matter of time when Verizon makes a new commercial about left handed cellphone users.

My 3GS has done the same thing as this since day one, I always wondered why the signal would mysteriously drop out at times, I thought maybe it was something to do with interference when the wifi is switched on. Since everyone started talking about this problem with iPhone 4 I tried holding it in the way described in my left hand and sure enough it causes the signal to drop out within a few seconds.

It seems like the problem is worse when the signal is not strong to begin with.

At least I know what causes it now.

Glass is not a conductor. The issue here is either the antenna itself, or some combination of the antenna and software, and possibly body chemistry. The variable in the analysis seems to be that it's not affecting everyone or all phones, although, that may be mistaken since it's not clear that everyone has actually attempted the experiment where they intentionally "short" the antenna with a finger, or found someone who can short it and applied them to phones that don't short for some.

As I said earlier:
1. How do you know the manager is being truthful ?
2. How do you know the percentage of customers that are contacting Apple support directly and not the store ?
3. How do you know the percentage of people that have not had the time to experience the issue yet ?
4. How do you know the percentage of people that are just waiting for a fix without reporting the issue ?
5. How do you know the percentage of people that have not had time yet in their busy schedule to report the issue ?
6. If this only affects a certain frequency band, how do you know if maybe most of the area around this particular store is not serviced with the affected frequency band.

There are a lot variables that prevent you from coming up with your claim of only affecting 1% of Apple's iPhone 4 customers.

It doesn't seem to affect every iPhone 4, we know this. Arnold Kim said it happens in some areas and not in others.

Damn, that's funny!

That's a slightly different matter, to be fair.

I think this is the first time I've heard of a class action suit against a product that has been out for so short of a time that EVERYONE CAN RETURN IT. Normally, I feel like class action suits are for people "stuck" with a product that has a well-known defect that was never recalled. People are not stuck in this case; they can still return it, right???

Once upon a time, when someone would bring me their "stupid" horse to train, I would tell them that the base of the problem was at the other end of the lead line.

Oh I agree the lawyers are doing it for the money. That's their job. No question. But, their work will be a much bigger hand then just you or me alone getting this issue resolved.

Exactly how much time do you have?

I don't think Stevie will get in much trouble. He's no idiot; he'll do the logical thing - issue a patch to the software that also fine tunes the face detection and maybe saves a bit of power.

Then issue the patch, telling how this give the iPhone greater battery time and other miscellaneous software fixes - and ignore the entire antennae issue.

Personally, as an engineer - I do not know why Apple didn't clearcoat the metal bezel, or have it annodized with a non-conductive coating. This could be a Foxconn screw up - where a vital process was by-passed during the assembly process.

What I do find amazing, is that the 'fanbois' (who deserve riducule) call people who point out a design flaw as 'trolls'. They are brain-dead; I paid $200 and signed a 2 yr contract for a cell phone that doesn't work as advertized. I gave up an inferior phone from Verizon that had fantastic coverage, for a fantastic phone that can't make or make cell calls from my place of work.

To a intellectually degenerate fanboi - that's being a 'troll'. To a rational human, that's complaining about a product that does not work as promised. The iPhone G4 has 2 areas where improvement is necessary.

1) Antennae issue - I'd suggest a re-call and replace conductive bezel iPhones with iPhones with non-conductive coatings on the metal bezel

2.) Proximity detector - phone switches to Speakerphone, or Mute or even hangs up during a phone call. All you have to do is let your cheek touch the phone. This is the entire purpose of the iPhone proximity detector - this is simply a software patch.

Wow. Did they get like t-shirts, buttons, a membership card and a secret handshake?

Wait a minute! Someone tells that joke every day and someone always posts a smiley face and says it made their day. When I tell it I bomb!

Is it my delivery??

Both sides of this matter need to take a deep breath and chill. We don't really know what the problem is. Only Apple would know. If it is software, which it could conceivably be, then it can get fix. If the upcoming software update doesn't fix it then other then people can complain heartily and Apple will probably be forced to replace the iPhone through upcoming lawsuits like this one.

I'm content to wait until the end of July when my contract ends to weigh my options.

I'm not a lawyer; but this could be a case of false advertizing. I paid a penalty to leave Verizon (early temination) to switch to what a rational person would presume to be a fully functional cell phone. I now have a cell phone that does not function as a cell phone at my place of business - whereas my Verizon phone functioned perfectly.

Thus, my damages not only include missed phone and missed business opportunties, but my early termination fees (which I cannot recover) from Verizon. So, simply giving me my money back still leaves me financially punished. Hence, class action lawsuit.

You bring up some resonable doubt...but then you take it too far. You can't question everything and cast doubt or deciet on it. That leads to no where.
1) I have no reason to doubt the store manager. he was an average Joe just trying to help.
2, 3 4 5) I don't know the percentage of people that are in the process of discovering this issue or reporting it or waiting for a fix.
6) I can repoduce the signal loss at home, work, apple store and everywhere I went over the weekend in the Phoenix area where I live.
I know that I have restored the phone to factory defaults from itunes several times at the suggestion from Apple personnel. I know that the manager re provissioned my phone and changed/reset every setting he could to try to reslove the issue for me. I have no reason to doubt him.