Law firm exploring class action suit over iPhone 4 reception issues - Page 5

Apple is claiming there is no reception issue. That is why this issue is escalating. Why would Apple fix something they claim is not broken ?

So we should all shut up - until YOUR contract ends? You must think pretty highly of yourself.

Me, I'm out a early termination fee from Verizon - because I believed the iPhone G4 would actually function as a cell phone. If I get my money back from Apple for the G4, I'm still out the money I paid to Verizon to leave - under the assumption that Apple could deliver a G4 phone that functioned at least as well as thier earlier products.

Meanwhile, I have a cell phone that does not function at my place of work. Verizon managed to service this area without issue. This is NOT a desolate area - yet my Apple phone cannot maintain connectivity with the AT&T towers.

My whole point is that your claim of only affecting 1% of Apple's iPhone customers could be very far from a possible much higher true percentage. Your 1% claim is not based on facts that will give an accurate picture.

You forgot the "Stay tuned" part following that statement.

To me that means that they'll issue an update or come with an explanation soon.

I'm not so sure that you couldn't do a better job. If you've ever hired a lawyer for a civil matter, I think you would agree. Most of them just look at procedures and case history and copy it. The work they have to do is just get people's stories (like we have here) and their info. Then we file a complaint that alleges that Apple knowingly sold this product with defects and list the users as co-plaintiffs as a class action. Apple responds denying all allegations and then we set a trial date. Which could take YEARS. In the meantime, enjoy your phone.

It would be faster to involve the attorney generals office of all the states in where we live. That way it gets resolved faster. Plus, since all of our states are cash-strapped, they see $$ for their state coming from Apple in the way of fines and punitive damages.

That is exactly what came to my mind!

Lawsuits like this concern one thing and one thing only... money for the lawfirm. In a class-action the people eager to jump on board with hopes of collecting some kind of jackpot (also known as the "something for nothing" gambit) will ultimately collect a few pennies, while the legal firm collects millions. If you either like Apple's products or are a shareholder, you'd be better served by simply taking your complaint directly to Apple to resolve your issue(s). At worst, you'll get your money back, although if the problem is as they've claimed, a software update will iron things out. Don't believe for a second you'll be doing anyone other than the lawyers a favor by responding to these lawyers. Also, AI... WTF? We're you paid by this law firm to publish their contact information? That's a new low even for you guys.

True, but the point is made to reflect how easy it is to brush off a class action. Plus we don't know how much the lawyers made and we get a freakin rubber case, not a new nano.

You are barking up the wrong tree my friend. This forum is not going to listen to anything slightest in the direction of a potential problem. They will ask you, the consumer, who paid $299 and committed to a 2 year contract, to bow to insults from this forum, indifference from Apple and ATT, but just be quiet and not say a word.

Exactly!!! LOL I stated that same fact in all of my posts. I claimed nothing as official.
But the same doubts can be cast on any point you are trying make as well.
We all do not have anything official....we are all commentating on our on experiences.
Do you have a 4G phone?

Stay tuned to a fix ? Possible ? But then why did he prefix that statement with 'There is no reception issue' ? And did this statement truly come from Apple. That has not been completely proven.

The only thing we really know with certainty at this point is that we know nothing with certainty. We have the accounts of people who believe they are experiencing some kind of problem. We also have accounts of people who say they are having no problem at all. There are no hard numbers and nothing approaching rigorous, lab-based, double-blind, controlled, scientific testing. Who do we give more credence to, satisfied customers or dissatisfied ones? What are the ratios between them? We really don't know. We can only guess.

Apple knows more about this phone than anyone--they designed and built it (or had it built for them for you sticklers out there). If anyone can get to the bottom of this, it is they who will. Watchful waiting is the correct posture. Others may say that all this kerfuffle is useful because it creates pressure on Apple to do the right thing. They may be right.

So have your say, everyone. Just try to keep it all in perspective. And don't be nasty with each other.

Ok ok, let's move on.

That is exactly what is happening. No reply means guilty. People want answers right now dammit!!! Well, maybe they don't have the exact answer right now. Do you want them to pull a BP and guess? Or, would you rather give them a reasonable amount of time to figure out what the exact issues are and then address them.

It's all in the timing.

That particular e-mail didn't have header that Arnold Kim could verify. All the other related previous e-mails did.

But you where the one spitting out facts that it only affects a small percentage. You even gave it a number. You said it only affects 1%. Why make claims that are very possibly completely inaccurate, and could be a much higher percentage ? Maybe even affecting *most* customers. That's why I had to call you on your claim.

No, I do not have an iPhone 4. I have an iPhone 3GS. I was going to wait in line the 1st day to get an iPhone 4, but when the issue started appearing Wed night, I decided to wait. Late last week, I went to the Apple store and tested several different iPhone 4's. I was able to duplicate the issue on every one of them. And I have seen very compelling videos of the issue being duplicated. And read articles from reputable authors reporting the issue. And I'm very disappointed in Apple's response to this issue so far. So, I'm in a holding pattern to see if this issue gets resolved soon.

Nah, you're screwed. Apple makes no promise on network availability. Neither does ATT or Verizon for that matter. Read the toilet paper they call a contract and see. You are not eligible to get any damages for what you are claiming. You can only get out of your contract with AT&T and return your phone. You will be liable for the phone calls you have made and you wont be getting back your activation fee.

They didn't even kiss you first. Welcome to OZ.

Well Steve also said in an email to "stay tuned" and Mossberg said that Apple told him it would be fixed in a software update. To be honest, I don't know if a software update will fix it and I remain skeptical. I'm not willing to act like I know what the problem is and to assume I know more than Apple does about their phone.


It's comments like these I'm referring to. The issue you are describing seems to be a problem with AT&T, not Apple. The iPhone 4 actually has better reception from all reviews and secondhand stories. The issue seems to be a dropping signal when held in a certain way (blocking the antenna).

If you think it is the iPhone:
1. Why can't you wait two weeks in which there will be a software update?
2. Did you buy a bumper?
3.If the bumper doesn't work, and from all reports/videos it does, then you can always return it. I can't help you with the early termination fee but it's the price you pay when you're an early adopter without reading any reviews.

For me, the issue is not that one can reproduce the phenomenon of making the bars do tricks by manipulating the phone, but rather, what does that mean? Does it change actual performance meaningfully? Some report it does, others report it doesn't. No, I don't have my 4 yet. It is on order. But I did fondle one at an Apple Store last week. It turned me on. I know because my bar went up.

For my testing, it did affect performance. It greatly slowed the data download rate.

Ding, ding, ding, ding. We have a winner here!!

I believe you. But I also believe those for whom performance was not effected. Eventually we'll find out why both are right.

If you re-read Mossberg's review, Apple told him the software update will fix a supposed inaccurate display of bars on the phone. Apple claimed the lower bars did not affect the actual performance of the phone. But yet Mossberg later said in his review that he did experience performance issues. As other people are reporting.

Castrate the liars !

you either don't know how to read or just don't care to. I'll give you another chance to carefully read what i wrote.

There is an apparent contradiction in your post and it proves my point. We really don't know what the issue. None of us worked on the iPhone. If Steve says to "stay tuned" I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Apple has been fairly good to its users over the years. That being said, Apple has had a real communication issue over the past week.

This is of course not including inherent design flaws in the Cube and Mighty Mouse.

I'm definitely on the side of "this is a major issue". But in my opinion, this class action suit is not morally justified.

Give Apple a chance to make good or provide a refund. If they refuse to provide a refund for defective devices, then perhaps legal action is merited.

Where is my contradiction ? Apple has claimed there is no reception issue. And we just need to hold the phone differently, or get case. So what are we staying tuned for ? Apple is the one contradicting itself.

i'm not debating your point, i'm agreeing with it. I'll give you another chance to actually address what i've said about the validity of e-communications as evidence.

1. Because the iPhone G4 WAS tested and reviewed prior to release.

Now, a rational person would assume that Apple, having made several millions of phones, would be capable of making a G4 phone that met, or exceeded the cell phone functionality of previous generations.

If you bought a Honda/Toyota that arbitrarily stopped if you held the steering wheel a 'certain way' - would you accept that? Very likely you would be outraged - yet you tell us that actually have, and depend on a cell phone to 'cool off'. Seems a bit hypocritical, doesn't it? A cell phone is NOT a toy - it's a vital communications device.

We are not complaining that Angry Birds doesn't work on the G4 (however Dragon's Lair fails to show either the sword button or joystick icons). We are stating that the basic and most fundamental part of our device does not work as it should. We are further stating that the most basic testing should have reveiled this design flaw.

2. Did you buy a bumper?

Have you bothered to look at the backlog on bumpers? Here's a hint, order today and it MAY be shipped in late July. Yup, you can't buy a bumper today if your life depended on it - however there are several cases available through Amazon. Still, this is a work-around for a design flaw, and in now way fixes the design flaw.

3. Return the iPhone .... eat the costs

Unacceptable. Hi, sorry about that Honda/Toyota leaving you stranded in the boonies becuse you touched the steering wheel in the 'wrong way'. Sorry about the towing and maintenance costs ... but we will give you another car - however you are going to eat any problems you encountered due to the car leaving you stranded.

You would NEVER accept that from Toyota/Honda - why would you make a special allowance for Apple? Fanboi? A defect, is a defect. Apple knows this, that's why instead of being a 'man' and taking ownership of the problem, it takes a Class Action lawsuit to force them to do the right thing. Unfortunately, Apple is not alone in this behavior.

You can take Steve's off the cuff email for what it's worth. But I don't see it as the final and definitive response from Apple Corp on this matter.

Oops! Misread your last two sentences. You're right that Apple has claimed no reception issue. I'm not defending the way Apple has handled this publicly but one can assume that "stay tuned" means that there is a fix coming. I can't guess as to whether it'll work but neither can anyone else.

As for getting a case, that might be a necessity after seeing how fragile the glass back actually is. There is something vastly different between the front and back in resistance to shattering.

But the longer they wait to officially address this issue in some fashion other then blaming the customer, the more this issue escalates.

Google is your friend. Why do you suppose that Gov't entities spend millions preserving emails? Why do companies have email policies? Yup, email can, and has been subpeonaed as evidence.

What do you think brought down the Global Warming hoax? (Hint: emails). Why do companies like Intel have corporate policies of destroying emails afte 6 months? What do you think was the evidence the linked Intel kickbacks that barred AMD from competing in Europe?

Hint: emails have traceability, and the logs that substanciate the origion of emails are routinely called into the courts.

Don't believe me? Go to work, write a letter threatening a Gov't official, and see what happens. If you are right, why you have nothing to fear. If I'm right, you'll be fired, tried and imprisoned.

Since we are talking about a lawsuit here, I would expect a judge would ask you just how many of your "several hundred iOS only apps" were bought after you upgraded to the 4? I can pretty much guarantee that you aren't going to be getting much judicial sympathy for have to "live with your 3GS".

I would agree with most of the other reasonable posts here. The phone has been out for less than a week. How about we give Apple a little time to devise a fix for the problem? Whether replacement units for those that might be defective, or free bumpers, or a software fix I don't see any reason to doubt that Apple will have some kind of fix shortly. This isn't some fanboi statement, just a matter of looking at Apple's history in dealing with product issues.

As I see it, the lawsuit grows exponentially. First off, the number of customers impacted by an upcoming (potential) re-call grows with every sale.

Secondly, and most importantly is the penalty phase. If Apple was made aware of a problem, yet persisted in selling products known to be defective - the penalty could be much higher than the cost of fixing the origional component.

No argument. As others have said, just a "We're working on it" might be more satisfying than "Stay tuned." But I don't think it would quiet all complainers.

No one wants a half-baked response that is rushed in order to get out ahead of critics.

Thinking practically, in a class action suit, each of the participants in the lawsuit (think individual iphone owners) eventually (after 12-24 months) would receive an amount between $0.75 and $5.25 in a lump sum. But the law firm would receive millions, literally millions. That is why these lawsuits exist...not to promote fairness, but to promote income to firms which specialize in class action lawsuits.

And although I believe that there are some owners who do experience problems (new technology always has problems), experience with Apple indicates that if enough of us simply complain to Apple, the glitches will be fixed in a reasonable length of time.

Golly...it is still the best phone on the market...unless you just want to hate Apple.

Hint: avoid letting irrelevant and controversial personal beliefs undercut your credibility on the argument at hand.