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Law firm exploring class action suit over iPhone 4 reception issues - Page 5

post #161 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

Both sides of this matter need to take a deep breath and chill. We don't really know what the problem is. Only Apple would know. If it is software, which it could conceivably be, then it can get fix. If the upcoming software update doesn't fix it then other then people can complain heartily and Apple will probably be forced to replace the iPhone through upcoming lawsuits like this one.

I'm content to wait until the end of July when my contract ends to weigh my options.

Apple is claiming there is no reception issue. That is why this issue is escalating. Why would Apple fix something they claim is not broken ?
post #162 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

Both sides of this matter need to take a deep breath and chill. We don't really know what the problem is. Only Apple would know. If it is software, which it could conceivably be, then it can get fix. If the upcoming software update doesn't fix it then other then people can complain heartily and Apple will probably be forced to replace the iPhone through upcoming lawsuits like this one.

I'm content to wait until the end of July when my contract ends to weigh my options.

So we should all shut up - until YOUR contract ends? You must think pretty highly of yourself.

Me, I'm out a early termination fee from Verizon - because I believed the iPhone G4 would actually function as a cell phone. If I get my money back from Apple for the G4, I'm still out the money I paid to Verizon to leave - under the assumption that Apple could deliver a G4 phone that functioned at least as well as thier earlier products.

Meanwhile, I have a cell phone that does not function at my place of work. Verizon managed to service this area without issue. This is NOT a desolate area - yet my Apple phone cannot maintain connectivity with the AT&T towers.
post #163 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

You bring up some resonable doubt...but then you take it too far. You can't question everything and cast doubt or deciet on it. That leads to no where.
1) I have no reason to doubt the store manager. he was an average Joe just trying to help.
2, 3 4 5) I don't know the percentage of people that are in the process of discovering this issue or reporting it or waiting for a fix.
6) I can repoduce the signal loss at home, work, apple store and everywhere I went over the weekend in the Phoenix area where I live.
I know that I have restored the phone to factory defaults from itunes several times at the suggestion from Apple personnel. I know that the manager re provissioned my phone and changed/reset every setting he could to try to reslove the issue for me. I have no reason to doubt him.

My whole point is that your claim of only affecting 1% of Apple's iPhone customers could be very far from a possible much higher true percentage. Your 1% claim is not based on facts that will give an accurate picture.
post #164 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Apple is claiming there is no reception issue. That is why this issue is escalating. Why would Apple fix something they claim is not broken ?

You forgot the "Stay tuned" part following that statement.

To me that means that they'll issue an update or come with an explanation soon.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #165 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Oh I agree the lawyers are doing it for the money. That's their job. No question. But, their work will be a much bigger hand then just you or me alone getting this issue resolved.

I'm not so sure that you couldn't do a better job. If you've ever hired a lawyer for a civil matter, I think you would agree. Most of them just look at procedures and case history and copy it. The work they have to do is just get people's stories (like we have here) and their info. Then we file a complaint that alleges that Apple knowingly sold this product with defects and list the users as co-plaintiffs as a class action. Apple responds denying all allegations and then we set a trial date. Which could take YEARS. In the meantime, enjoy your phone.

It would be faster to involve the attorney generals office of all the states in where we live. That way it gets resolved faster. Plus, since all of our states are cash-strapped, they see $$ for their state coming from Apple in the way of fines and punitive damages.
post #166 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCMacUser View Post

Yep have to love it, technology ambulance chasers.....

That is exactly what came to my mind!

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post #167 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbarriault View Post

Nope, they're just going to sue Apple because being anti-Apple is the new fad. But then again, I wouldn't trust them to hit the broad side of a barn with a bulldozer, what with them suing Facebook for Zynga's ads.

Lawsuits like this concern one thing and one thing only... money for the lawfirm. In a class-action the people eager to jump on board with hopes of collecting some kind of jackpot (also known as the "something for nothing" gambit) will ultimately collect a few pennies, while the legal firm collects millions. If you either like Apple's products or are a shareholder, you'd be better served by simply taking your complaint directly to Apple to resolve your issue(s). At worst, you'll get your money back, although if the problem is as they've claimed, a software update will iron things out. Don't believe for a second you'll be doing anyone other than the lawyers a favor by responding to these lawyers. Also, AI... WTF? We're you paid by this law firm to publish their contact information? That's a new low even for you guys.

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post #168 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

That's a slightly different matter, to be fair.

True, but the point is made to reflect how easy it is to brush off a class action. Plus we don't know how much the lawyers made and we get a freakin rubber case, not a new nano.
post #169 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

While I think the lawsuit is ridiculous, there IS a problem for quite a few people. Holding my iPhone 4 normally in my left hand results in 1 bar or "No Service" within 30 seconds and I can't make calls or connect to the internet. I don't even have to do a tight "death grip" on it, I just merely need to place it slightly cupped in my hand.

If I do this with my wife's 3GS, I might see one bar drop, but I can still make calls and the download/upload 3G speeds are barely affected.

Now, those are just my results. Other people have mentioned similar findings -- so instead of everyone blindly defending Apple, can some of you at least acknowledge that something is going on that is not the fault of the customer?

You are barking up the wrong tree my friend. This forum is not going to listen to anything slightest in the direction of a potential problem. They will ask you, the consumer, who paid $299 and committed to a 2 year contract, to bow to insults from this forum, indifference from Apple and ATT, but just be quiet and not say a word.
post #170 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

My whole point is that your claim of only affecting 1% of Apple's iPhone customers could be very far from a possible much higher true percentage. Your 1% claim is not based on facts that will give an accurate picture.

Exactly!!! LOL I stated that same fact in all of my posts. I claimed nothing as official.
But the same doubts can be cast on any point you are trying make as well.
We all do not have anything official....we are all commentating on our on experiences.
Do you have a 4G phone?

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post #171 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLL View Post

You forgot the "Stay tuned" part following that statement.

To me that means that they'll issue an update or come with an explanation soon.

Stay tuned to a fix ? Possible ? But then why did he prefix that statement with 'There is no reception issue' ? And did this statement truly come from Apple. That has not been completely proven.
post #172 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

How do you know this issue only affects a very small percentage ? And how do you all iPhone 4's are not affected ? It could just depend on the user's location (frequency band used/ signal strength, etc). There are a lot of assumptions on your part.

The only thing we really know with certainty at this point is that we know nothing with certainty. We have the accounts of people who believe they are experiencing some kind of problem. We also have accounts of people who say they are having no problem at all. There are no hard numbers and nothing approaching rigorous, lab-based, double-blind, controlled, scientific testing. Who do we give more credence to, satisfied customers or dissatisfied ones? What are the ratios between them? We really don't know. We can only guess.

Apple knows more about this phone than anyone--they designed and built it (or had it built for them for you sticklers out there). If anyone can get to the bottom of this, it is they who will. Watchful waiting is the correct posture. Others may say that all this kerfuffle is useful because it creates pressure on Apple to do the right thing. They may be right.

So have your say, everyone. Just try to keep it all in perspective. And don't be nasty with each other.
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post #173 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

Wait a minute! Someone tells that joke every day and someone always posts a smiley face and says it made their day. When I tell it I bomb!

Is it my delivery??

Ok ok, let's move on.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #174 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Yep, I agree. The problem is it is so far ahead the competition have to resort to 'swift boat tactics.'

That is exactly what is happening. No reply means guilty. People want answers right now dammit!!! Well, maybe they don't have the exact answer right now. Do you want them to pull a BP and guess? Or, would you rather give them a reasonable amount of time to figure out what the exact issues are and then address them.
post #175 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

Wait a minute! Someone tells that joke every day and someone always posts a smiley face and says it made their day. When I tell it I bomb!

Is it my delivery??

It's all in the timing.
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post #176 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLL View Post

You forgot the "Stay tuned" part following that statement.

To me that means that they'll issue an update or come with an explanation soon.

That particular e-mail didn't have header that Arnold Kim could verify. All the other related previous e-mails did.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #177 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Exactly!!! LOL I stated that same fact in all of my posts. I claimed nothing as official.
But the same doubts can be cast on any point you are trying make as well.
We all do not have anything official....we are all commentating on our on experiences.
Do you have a 4G phone?

But you where the one spitting out facts that it only affects a small percentage. You even gave it a number. You said it only affects 1%. Why make claims that are very possibly completely inaccurate, and could be a much higher percentage ? Maybe even affecting *most* customers. That's why I had to call you on your claim.

No, I do not have an iPhone 4. I have an iPhone 3GS. I was going to wait in line the 1st day to get an iPhone 4, but when the issue started appearing Wed night, I decided to wait. Late last week, I went to the Apple store and tested several different iPhone 4's. I was able to duplicate the issue on every one of them. And I have seen very compelling videos of the issue being duplicated. And read articles from reputable authors reporting the issue. And I'm very disappointed in Apple's response to this issue so far. So, I'm in a holding pattern to see if this issue gets resolved soon.
post #178 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodar View Post

I'm not a lawyer; but this could be a case of false advertizing. I paid a penalty to leave Verizon (early temination) to switch to what a rational person would presume to be a fully functional cell phone. I now have a cell phone that does not function as a cell phone at my place of business - whereas my Verizon phone functioned perfectly.

Thus, my damages not only include missed phone and missed business opportunties, but my early termination fees (which I cannot recover) from Verizon. So, simply giving me my money back still leaves me financially punished. Hence, class action lawsuit.

Nah, you're screwed. Apple makes no promise on network availability. Neither does ATT or Verizon for that matter. Read the toilet paper they call a contract and see. You are not eligible to get any damages for what you are claiming. You can only get out of your contract with AT&T and return your phone. You will be liable for the phone calls you have made and you wont be getting back your activation fee.

They didn't even kiss you first. Welcome to OZ.
post #179 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Apple is claiming there is no reception issue. That is why this issue is escalating. Why would Apple fix something they claim is not broken ?

Well Steve also said in an email to "stay tuned" and Mossberg said that Apple told him it would be fixed in a software update. To be honest, I don't know if a software update will fix it and I remain skeptical. I'm not willing to act like I know what the problem is and to assume I know more than Apple does about their phone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodar View Post

So we should all shut up - until YOUR contract ends? You must think pretty highly of yourself.

Me, I'm out a early termination fee from Verizon - because I believed the iPhone G4 would actually function as a cell phone. If I get my money back from Apple for the G4, I'm still out the money I paid to Verizon to leave - under the assumption that Apple could deliver a G4 phone that functioned at least as well as thier earlier products.

Meanwhile, I have a cell phone that does not function at my place of work. Verizon managed to service this area without issue. This is NOT a desolate area - yet my Apple phone cannot maintain connectivity with the AT&T towers.

It's comments like these I'm referring to. The issue you are describing seems to be a problem with AT&T, not Apple. The iPhone 4 actually has better reception from all reviews and secondhand stories. The issue seems to be a dropping signal when held in a certain way (blocking the antenna).

If you think it is the iPhone:
1. Why can't you wait two weeks in which there will be a software update?
2. Did you buy a bumper?
3.If the bumper doesn't work, and from all reports/videos it does, then you can always return it. I can't help you with the early termination fee but it's the price you pay when you're an early adopter without reading any reviews.
post #180 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

I was able to duplicate the issue on every one of them. And I have seen very compelling videos of the issue be duplicated. And read articles from reputable authors reporting the issue. And I'm very disappointed in Apple's response to this issue so far. So, I'm in a holding pattern to see if this issue gets resolved soon.

For me, the issue is not that one can reproduce the phenomenon of making the bars do tricks by manipulating the phone, but rather, what does that mean? Does it change actual performance meaningfully? Some report it does, others report it doesn't. No, I don't have my 4 yet. It is on order. But I did fondle one at an Apple Store last week. It turned me on. I know because my bar went up.
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post #181 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

For me, the issue is not that one can reproduce the phenomenon of making the bars do tricks by manipulating the phone, but rather, what does that mean? Does it change actual performance meaningfully? Some report it does, others report it doesn't. No, I don't have my 4 yet. It is on order. But I did fondle one at an Apple Store last week. It turned me on. I know because my bars went up.

For my testing, it did affect performance. It greatly slowed the data download rate.
post #182 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Lawsuits like this concern one thing and one thing only... money for the lawfirm. In a class-action the people eager to jump on board with hopes of collecting some kind of jackpot (also known as the "something for nothing" gambit) will ultimately collect a few pennies, while the legal firm collects millions. If you either like Apple's products or are a shareholder, you'd be better served by simply taking your complaint directly to Apple to resolve your issue(s). At worst, you'll get your money back, although if the problem is as they've claimed, a software update will iron things out. Don't believe for a second you'll be doing anyone other than the lawyers a favor by responding to these lawyers. Also, AI... WTF? We're you paid by this law firm to publish their contact information? That's a new low even for you guys.

Ding, ding, ding, ding. We have a winner here!!
post #183 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

For my testing, it did affect performance. It greatly slowed the data download rate.

I believe you. But I also believe those for whom performance was not effected. Eventually we'll find out why both are right.
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post #184 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

Well Steve also said in an email to "stay tuned" and Mossberg said that Apple told him it would be fixed in a software update. To be honest, I don't know if a software update will fix it and I remain skeptical. I'm not willing to act like I know what the problem is and to assume I know more than Apple does about their phone.

If you re-read Mossberg's review, Apple told him the software update will fix a supposed inaccurate display of bars on the phone. Apple claimed the lower bars did not affect the actual performance of the phone. But yet Mossberg later said in his review that he did experience performance issues. As other people are reporting.
post #185 of 317
Castrate the liars !
post #186 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

You can't possibly know it's not an issue in one out of every 5 iPhone 4's sold. 'Cause you don't know.

you either don't know how to read or just don't care to. I'll give you another chance to carefully read what i wrote.
post #187 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

If you re-read Mossberg's review, the software update Apple told him will fix a supposed inaccurate display of bars on the phone. Apple claimed the lower bars did not affect the actual performance of the phone. But yet Mossberg later said it did affect the performance of the phone. As other people are reporting.

There is an apparent contradiction in your post and it proves my point. We really don't know what the issue. None of us worked on the iPhone. If Steve says to "stay tuned" I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Apple has been fairly good to its users over the years. That being said, Apple has had a real communication issue over the past week.

This is of course not including inherent design flaws in the Cube and Mighty Mouse.
post #188 of 317
I'm definitely on the side of "this is a major issue". But in my opinion, this class action suit is not morally justified.

Give Apple a chance to make good or provide a refund. If they refuse to provide a refund for defective devices, then perhaps legal action is merited.
post #189 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

There is an apparent contradiction in your post and it proves my point. We really don't know what the issue. None of us worked on the iPhone. If Steve says to "stay tuned" I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Apple has been fairly good to its users over the years. This is of course not including inherent design flaws in the Cube and Mighty Mouse.

Where is my contradiction ? Apple has claimed there is no reception issue. And we just need to hold the phone differently, or get case. So what are we staying tuned for ? Apple is the one contradicting itself.
post #190 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodar View Post

Apple's official stance was "There is NO problem with the iPhone G4". For Apple to admit a problem, will mean that they will be fiscally responsible for several million dollars worth of faulty equipment. If Apple continues to follow the "No problem with the iPhone tract"; then the only way to force them to the table to address the issue, is legal means.

The smart response would be to neither confirm, nor deny an issue. Simply state that "Apple is looking into this". Then use this delay time to produce a iOS patch that corrects the issue (plus the issue of the face detection not working, such that you can easily turn on the speakerphone, mute function or hang up on your call if the phone touches your cheek during a call).

Very few products are launched without a single errata that is later corrected with an update.

i'm not debating your point, i'm agreeing with it. I'll give you another chance to actually address what i've said about the validity of e-communications as evidence.
post #191 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

If you think it is the iPhone:
1. Why can't you wait two weeks in which there will be a software update?
2. Did you buy a bumper?
3.If the bumper doesn't work, and from all reports/videos it does, then you can always return it. I can't help you with the early termination fee but it's the price you pay when you're an early adopter without reading any reviews.

1. Because the iPhone G4 WAS tested and reviewed prior to release.

Now, a rational person would assume that Apple, having made several millions of phones, would be capable of making a G4 phone that met, or exceeded the cell phone functionality of previous generations.

If you bought a Honda/Toyota that arbitrarily stopped if you held the steering wheel a 'certain way' - would you accept that? Very likely you would be outraged - yet you tell us that actually have, and depend on a cell phone to 'cool off'. Seems a bit hypocritical, doesn't it? A cell phone is NOT a toy - it's a vital communications device.

We are not complaining that Angry Birds doesn't work on the G4 (however Dragon's Lair fails to show either the sword button or joystick icons). We are stating that the basic and most fundamental part of our device does not work as it should. We are further stating that the most basic testing should have reveiled this design flaw.

2. Did you buy a bumper?

Have you bothered to look at the backlog on bumpers? Here's a hint, order today and it MAY be shipped in late July. Yup, you can't buy a bumper today if your life depended on it - however there are several cases available through Amazon. Still, this is a work-around for a design flaw, and in now way fixes the design flaw.

3. Return the iPhone .... eat the costs

Unacceptable. Hi, sorry about that Honda/Toyota leaving you stranded in the boonies becuse you touched the steering wheel in the 'wrong way'. Sorry about the towing and maintenance costs ... but we will give you another car - however you are going to eat any problems you encountered due to the car leaving you stranded.

You would NEVER accept that from Toyota/Honda - why would you make a special allowance for Apple? Fanboi? A defect, is a defect. Apple knows this, that's why instead of being a 'man' and taking ownership of the problem, it takes a Class Action lawsuit to force them to do the right thing. Unfortunately, Apple is not alone in this behavior.
post #192 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Where is my contradiction ? Apple has claimed there is no reception issue. And we just need to hold the phone differently, or get case. So what are we staying tuned for ? Apple is the one contradicting itself.

You can take Steve's off the cuff email for what it's worth. But I don't see it as the final and definitive response from Apple Corp on this matter.
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post #193 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Where is my contradiction ? Apple has claimed there is no reception issue. And we just need to hold the phone differently, or get case. So what are we staying tuned for ? Apple is the one contradicting itself.

Oops! Misread your last two sentences. You're right that Apple has claimed no reception issue. I'm not defending the way Apple has handled this publicly but one can assume that "stay tuned" means that there is a fix coming. I can't guess as to whether it'll work but neither can anyone else.

As for getting a case, that might be a necessity after seeing how fragile the glass back actually is. There is something vastly different between the front and back in resistance to shattering.
post #194 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

You can take Steve's off the cuff email for what it's worth. But I don't see it as the final and definitive response from Apple Corp on this matter.

But the longer they wait to officially address this issue in some fashion other then blaming the customer, the more this issue escalates.
post #195 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

i'm not debating your point, i'm agreeing with it. I'll give you another chance to actually address what i've said about the validity of e-communications as evidence.

Google is your friend. Why do you suppose that Gov't entities spend millions preserving emails? Why do companies have email policies? Yup, email can, and has been subpeonaed as evidence.

What do you think brought down the Global Warming hoax? (Hint: emails). Why do companies like Intel have corporate policies of destroying emails afte 6 months? What do you think was the evidence the linked Intel kickbacks that barred AMD from competing in Europe?

Hint: emails have traceability, and the logs that substanciate the origion of emails are routinely called into the courts.

Don't believe me? Go to work, write a letter threatening a Gov't official, and see what happens. If you are right, why you have nothing to fear. If I'm right, you'll be fired, tried and imprisoned.
post #196 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by kresh View Post

I did take mine back, now what do I do with the several hundred iOS only apps that I bought? Live with my 3GS? Just bite the bullet and move on to a different platform? Blindly praise Apple? Just what exactly?

Since we are talking about a lawsuit here, I would expect a judge would ask you just how many of your "several hundred iOS only apps" were bought after you upgraded to the 4? I can pretty much guarantee that you aren't going to be getting much judicial sympathy for have to "live with your 3GS".

I would agree with most of the other reasonable posts here. The phone has been out for less than a week. How about we give Apple a little time to devise a fix for the problem? Whether replacement units for those that might be defective, or free bumpers, or a software fix I don't see any reason to doubt that Apple will have some kind of fix shortly. This isn't some fanboi statement, just a matter of looking at Apple's history in dealing with product issues.
post #197 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

But the longer they wait to officially address this issue in some fashion other then blaming the customer, the more this issue escalates.

As I see it, the lawsuit grows exponentially. First off, the number of customers impacted by an upcoming (potential) re-call grows with every sale.

Secondly, and most importantly is the penalty phase. If Apple was made aware of a problem, yet persisted in selling products known to be defective - the penalty could be much higher than the cost of fixing the origional component.
post #198 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

But the longer they wait to officially address this issue in some fashion other then blaming the customer, the more this issue escalates.

No argument. As others have said, just a "We're working on it" might be more satisfying than "Stay tuned." But I don't think it would quiet all complainers.

No one wants a half-baked response that is rushed in order to get out ahead of critics.
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post #199 of 317
Thinking practically, in a class action suit, each of the participants in the lawsuit (think individual iphone owners) eventually (after 12-24 months) would receive an amount between $0.75 and $5.25 in a lump sum. But the law firm would receive millions, literally millions. That is why these lawsuits exist...not to promote fairness, but to promote income to firms which specialize in class action lawsuits.

And although I believe that there are some owners who do experience problems (new technology always has problems), experience with Apple indicates that if enough of us simply complain to Apple, the glitches will be fixed in a reasonable length of time.

Golly...it is still the best phone on the market...unless you just want to hate Apple.
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post #200 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodar View Post

What do you think brought down the Global Warming hoax? (Hint: emails).

Hint: avoid letting irrelevant and controversial personal beliefs undercut your credibility on the argument at hand.
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