Law firm exploring class action suit over iPhone 4 reception issues - Page 6

Originally Posted by Hodar

What do you think brought down the Global Warming hoax? (Hint: emails).

Originally Posted by Hodar

As I see it, the lawsuit grows exponentially. First off, the number of customers impacted by an upcoming (potential) re-call grows with every sale.

Secondly, and most importantly is the penalty phase. If Apple was made aware of a problem, yet persisted in selling products known to be defective - the penalty could be much higher than the cost of fixing the origional component.

Originally Posted by Hodar

As I see it, the lawsuit grows exponentially. First off, the number of customers impacted by an upcoming (potential) re-call grows with every sale.

Secondly, and most importantly is the penalty phase. If Apple was made aware of a problem, yet persisted in selling products known to be defective - the penalty could be much higher than the cost of fixing the origional component.

Originally Posted by Sky King

Thinking practically, in a class action suit, each of the participants in the lawsuit (think individual iphone owners) eventually (after 12-24 months) would receive an amount between $0.75 and $5.25 in a lump sum. But the law firm would receive millions, literally millions. That is why these lawsuits exist...not to promote fairness, but to promote income to firms which specialize in class action lawsuits.

And although I believe that there are some owners who do experience problems (new technology always has problems), experience with Apple indicates that if enough of us simply complain to Apple, the glitches will be fixed in a reasonable length of time.

Golly...it is still the best phone on the market...unless you just want to hate Apple.

Originally Posted by ski1

Except in this case, we are talking about . . . a high profile issue.

Originally Posted by Hodar

1. Because the iPhone G4 WAS tested and reviewed prior to release.

Now, a rational person would assume that Apple, having made several millions of phones, would be capable of making a G4 phone that met, or exceeded the cell phone functionality of previous generations.

If you bought a Honda/Toyota that arbitrarily stopped if you held the steering wheel a 'certain way' - would you accept that? Very likely you would be outraged - yet you tell us that actually have, and depend on a cell phone to 'cool off'. Seems a bit hypocritical, doesn't it? A cell phone is NOT a toy - it's a vital communications device.

We are not complaining that Angry Birds doesn't work on the G4 (however Dragon's Lair fails to show either the sword button or joystick icons). We are stating that the basic and most fundamental part of our device does not work as it should. We are further stating that the most basic testing should have reveiled this design flaw.

2. Did you buy a bumper?

Have you bothered to look at the backlog on bumpers? Here's a hint, order today and it MAY be shipped in late July. Yup, you can't buy a bumper today if your life depended on it - however there are several cases available through Amazon. Still, this is a work-around for a design flaw, and in now way fixes the design flaw.

3. Return the iPhone .... eat the costs

Unacceptable. Hi, sorry about that Honda/Toyota leaving you stranded in the boonies becuse you touched the steering wheel in the 'wrong way'. Sorry about the towing and maintenance costs ... but we will give you another car - however you are going to eat any problems you encountered due to the car leaving you stranded.

You would NEVER accept that from Toyota/Honda - why would you make a special allowance for Apple? Fanboi? A defect, is a defect. Apple knows this, that's why instead of being a 'man' and taking ownership of the problem, it takes a Class Action lawsuit to force them to do the right thing. Unfortunately, Apple is not alone in this behavior.

Originally Posted by Robin Huber

Are we really? Sometimes I think those of us who haunt these forums have an inflated view of our own importance. It is high profile for us, but what about the non tech fans out there? Yes, this story made a few inches of column in some big papers, and was mentioned briefly in the nightly news. But they have moved on. We have not. I'm just sayin'--a little perspective on the relative importance of all this.

Originally Posted by geekdad

Now that is a very good point!

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Apple publicly responded to reports and said that any mobile phone has reception issues when held improperly.

Originally Posted by womble2k2

As many people have pointed out, this affects all phones, and even further, radio devices.

So are they doing a class action against every manufacturer of radio equipment which doesn't get 100% reception everywhere and under every circulstance?

Phil

Originally Posted by Hands Sandon

I was told last week by an Apple level 2 technician that they would replace the phone. Today he called back, as he said he would, and told me that they wouldn't replace the phone because any replacement would do the same thing. He also said there was no point sending it in for repair because they would find nothing wrong with it. He said the iPhone 3G and 3GS antennas where the same (that wasn't my experience and not after I upgraded to iOS 4 either). He basically echoed SJ; hold it differently and try a case, which they won't give you one for free.

Originally Posted by casey4147

My wife used to be able to light a small florescent tube (from a camping lantern) by holding both ends in her hands - she may still, hasn't tried it lately. She made a laser printer spit out solid black pages by standing next to it. She's had an iPhone for almost a year and it's survived the experience, so it'll be interesting to see what happens when we upgrade to iPhone 4's when eligibility comes around...

Originally Posted by Sky King

... That is why these lawsuits exist...not to promote fairness, but to promote income to firms which specialize in class action lawsuits. ...

Originally Posted by ski1

We are talking about a phone that has issues performing its main function. Not a minor secondary issue such as it could scratch or break easy. This issue will not go away anytime soon. But I'm sure Apple hopes it does.

Originally Posted by antkm1

you either don't know how to read or just don't care to. I'll give you another chance to carefully read what i wrote.

If this is an inherit flaw in the design, as may have been trying to prove, and Apple's claims that there "is no problem"...then this is lying and Apple should provide some kind of restitution. If Apple wants to deny something that is inheritly wrong with the design, a lawsuit is justified, that is unless they cannot prove that this is a design flaw in every device and not just a small percentage. I mean, we have heard many accounts of this problem, in other countries too (so you can't claim it's a network issue), but that's only a very small percentage of the amount of iphones out there sold as of today. They sold 1.7M phones in the first 3 days, and we've heard only about 1% (at best) of them having problems. This would have to be (i'm speculating) an issue of one out of every 5 phones with this issue before it becomes something worth suing over.

Originally Posted by Hodar

Apple's official stance was "There is NO problem with the iPhone G4".

Originally Posted by Hodar

The iPhone G4 has 2 areas where improvement is necessary.

If I get my money back from Apple for the G4, I'm still out the money I paid to Verizon to leave - under the assumption that Apple could deliver a G4 phone that functioned at least as well as thier earlier products.

Originally Posted by Hodar

1. Because the iPhone G4 WAS tested and reviewed prior to release.

Now, a rational person would assume that Apple, having made several millions of phones, would be capable of making a G4 phone that met, or exceeded the cell phone functionality of previous generations.

We are not complaining that Angry Birds doesn't work on the G4 (however Dragon's Lair fails to show either the sword button or joystick icons).

Originally Posted by casey4147

My wife used to be able to light a small florescent tube (from a camping lantern) by holding both ends in her hands - she may still, hasn't tried it lately. She made a laser printer spit out solid black pages by standing next to it. She's had an iPhone for almost a year and it's survived the experience, so it'll be interesting to see what happens when we upgrade to iPhone 4's when eligibility comes around...

Originally Posted by HammerofTruth

It's only a matter of time when Verizon makes a new commercial about left handed cellphone users.

Originally Posted by anonymouse

Actually, the reason these class action suits exist is to financially punish companies who engage in bad behavior. The income to law firms who bring them is simply an incentive to bring about this punishment. In the absence of government power or will to bring about these results, this is the only alternative available, and it's how the law and legal system has been set up in our society. Individual consumers could never get a lawyer to take a case where typically the best outcome is a few hundred to a couple thousand dollars. Consumers on their own would stand no chance against a phalanx of corporate lawyers. Companies could essentially do whatever they wanted without fear of repercussions. The possibility of large damage awards will act to constrain them in most cases, and the object lesson provided by those who still behave badly continually acts as a deterrent to the rest.

Originally Posted by str1f3


BTW do you have dropping signal issue with the death grip or do you get no service at all? If it's the latter it is AT&T and not Apple.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not unsympathetic to your situation (while it is a rare case) but it's always best to take a wait and see approach. Hopefully the software patch fixes your issue.

Originally Posted by JupiterOne

Sorry, but can you please stop calling it a G4, especially when quoting. There is no product called iPhone G4. It's "iPhone 4". Thanks. Carry on.

Originally Posted by quinney

... This is something for people to keep in mind when they are pondering the desirability of
"tort reform".

Originally Posted by Hodar

As I have stated previously, I'm an engineer and have worked R&D for 20+ yrs. This was a Freshman Engineering student level screw-up. The most basic, the most primitive level of testing should have revealed this design flaw, unless this is a manufacturing defect from Foxconn.

Originally Posted by Trajectory

If this is true, it looks like Apple is going to try the old Denial route which it seems to have a lot of practice doing. Pretend the problem doesn't exist and see how many people actually complain. But if this problem affects a large number of iPhones, it could be a losing battle for Apple to keep denying the problem.

Of course, it's only been, what, a few days since the iPhone went on sale? I think this class action lawsuit is a bit premature, but, it might just help hold Apple's feet to the fire to take action faster and acknowledge the problem rather than dragging its feet and pretending the problem doesn't exist for as long as possible.



Apple should hire your wife to do hardware testing on the next iPhone.

Originally Posted by anonymouse

And it's something that people pushing for "tort reform" don't want you to think about. They would prefer to stir up resentment against "greedy lawyers", while obfuscating the fact that our legal system is based on "greedy lawyers" acting as a check on "greedy corporations". Remove the check without creating some new one (perhaps they would prefer more direct government involvement?) and the results are highly predictable.

Originally Posted by quinney

So you conclude that it is more likely that Apple made a Freshman Engineering student level screw-up and neglected to perform the most primitive level of testing?

Personally, I am leaning more toward the alternative explanation, that it is a manufacturing
defect.

Originally Posted by quinney

Personally, I am leaning more toward the alternative explanation, that it is a manufacturing
defect.

Originally Posted by ski1

If this was merely a a simple manufacturing defect, I would have expected Apple to have a response to this issue a long time ago. It's obvious to me this issue is not a simple manufacturing defect, it's instead either hardware (which I believe), or software flaw.

But whatever the case, Apple's denial an issue exists is very troublesome.

Originally Posted by ski1

If this was merely a a simple manufacturing defect, I would have expected Apple to have a response to this issue a long time ago. ...

Originally Posted by quinney

So you conclude that it is more likely that Apple made a Freshman Engineering student level screw-up and neglected to perform the most primitive level of testing?

Personally, I am leaning more toward the alternative explanation, that it is a manufacturing
defect.

Originally Posted by anonymouse

I think we do have to give Apple a chance to investigate and respond before we start knotting the rope.

Originally Posted by Hodar

How did this manufacturing defect make it out the door? Final test should have caught this. In fact, a reasonable manufacturing process would have caught this immediately. When you mass produce anything, you have periodic checks within each lot; and manditory inspections at the beginning of each lot.

Obviously, this didn't happen.

Originally Posted by ski1

If this was merely a a simple manufacturing defect, I would have expected Apple to have a response to this issue a long time ago. And Apple customer support is now telling customers a replacement phone will not fix their issue. It's obvious to me this issue is not a simple manufacturing defect, it's instead either a hardware (which I believe), or software flaw.

But whatever the case, Apple's denial an issue exists is very troublesome.

Originally Posted by geekdad

"It's obvious to me this issue is not a simple manufacturing defect, it's instead either a hardware (which I believe), or software flaw."
Do you have info that no one else has? Are you an engineer or have technical or manufacturing degree or knowledge that would support that assumption?
Do you have some "inside knowledge" or facts that are not public?
You said this was a hardware issue? How did you come to that conclusion? What facts or data do you base this on?

We need more info before we can make assumptions that based on factual evidense.
Just because you believe it to be true...doesn't make it factual.......
You pointed this same very point out to me a few posts ago...rememeber?

Originally Posted by ski1

It would be nice to get an official response from Apple along those lines. Apple support is telling customers a different story.

Originally Posted by Hodar

How did this manufacturing defect make it out the door? Final test should have caught this. In fact, a reasonable manufacturing process would have caught this immediately. When you mass produce anything, you have periodic checks within each lot; and manditory inspections at the beginning of each lot.

Obviously, this didn't happen.

Originally Posted by ski1

Nope, I said obvious to me. Purely my opinion, not a fact like the ones you try to give about the percentage this issue affects. I said several times, my opinion based upon personal observation, reading numerous articles from experts, Apple's denial and lack of response, and my logical deduction. But it's just my opinion. And Apple's continued denial and lack of response will fuel more people thinking the same way. But I could be completely wrong.

Originally Posted by zmonster

... I request to be disposed as a witness against your claim ...

Originally Posted by geekdad

But my percentage quote was from an "APPLE STORE MANAGER" I did not make it up based on my assumptions.....

Originally Posted by geekdad

But my percentage quote was from an "APPLE STORE MANAGER" I did not make it up based on my assumptions.....
EDIT:
Here is your post...no where does it say this is "my opinion"
If this was merely a a simple manufacturing defect, I would have expected Apple to have a response to this issue a long time ago. And Apple customer support is now telling customers a replacement phone will not fix their issue. It's obvious to me this issue is not a simple manufacturing defect, it's instead either a hardware (which I believe), or software flaw.

But whatever the case, Apple's denial an issue exists is very troublesome.

I think this iPhone shortage is a blessing in disguise. It will give potential iPhone 4 customers more time to absorb and become knowledgeable about this issue before making a purchase when they are finally widely available again.