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AppleCare memo emphasizes no free bumpers for iPhone 4 reception - Page 6

post #201 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by macologist View Post

This is getting silly...

Seemingly the same group of folks on this Forum are screaming at Apple here... The Sky Is Falling...

Others say what I've been thinking:

Shut Up and Return It? But the screamers don't seem to respond to that! So then I wonder:

what do they really want? Are they trolls, or whatever?

Then there are those who try to recreate this issue and can't! The funniest yet was the guy whose wife had this issue with 2 of their phones, but the guy/husband can't recreate this issue, and same goes for most others who have bought this product which is hardly available because of the huge demand!

Most people use iPhone with Cases! Many use it with Hands-free Ear Pieces, wired or Bluetooth, thus this issue won't come up in those cases!

Of course there are always those to whom Steve Jobs is a Devil..., and so they wish him, a cancer survivor, a speedy death, or so it seems from their venomous comments!

So... If most people are not having this issue, and Apple can't meet the demand, is it fair to be demanding free Bumpers?

Apple refuses to be dragged into this topic, as they are likely working on a fix...
Apple doesn't want to acknowledge this as a problem, cause they don't feel that it is!
Apple's Refund Policy allows for Return of their products, and I assume that includes item!

So, by dealing with this the way Apple is, Apple is calling some people's bluff -- Shut Up, or Return it for a Refund...

People are free to buy another phone, or design their own!

As I've read some antenna expert:

It's always a trade off! Apple took this antenna to the edge for better reception, because they understand that most people will use the case, and or Hands-Free!

With all the conflicting reports, plus no problem for most people, it's hard to know what the best fix would be!

I am getting suspicious of the same names here SCREAMING at Apple!
Again I say:

Apple is calling your bluff -- Shut Up, or Return it for a Refund!

Buy another phone, or design their own!

Both sides want to be right, plain and simple. There is probably a fear here that if the phone is indeed defective, then they are in a minimum 2 year relationship that could see the risdual value of the phone plummet to 0. I am waiting it out, having the issue, and the issue with the sensor. But to be sure, at 28 days, I will take a look and possibly head back to the 3Gs.

Here is the text of a letter sent to SJ this am:

Quote:
Steve,

\tPlease fix the proximity sensor. Antennae not a big deal, bumper works great. My cheek is able to conference, mute, turn on speaker and drop the calls.

Want to be able to focus on the task at hand during the call, not watching for the phone to change states.

Huge issue, thanks!
post #202 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

... The way most people are going to old it will not have the bottom of the phone covered with your palm.

When held in the left hand, not held to your head as a phone, but holding it to use the computer functions of the device and/or on speaker, it's quite likely that the seam may be pressed against the base of one's thumb, in the most natural holding position. Under normal use, the contact may not be constant, but that touching this spot intentionally shows the ability to consistently reproduce the issue on some iP4s (but seemingly not all iP4s) points to a definite problem, the exact cause and nature of which is not understood, nor, apparently, even investigated by any of the articles that have been quoted or referenced.
post #203 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

Both sides want to be right, plain and simple. There is probably a fear here that if the phone is indeed defective, then they are in a minimum 2 year relationship that could see the risdual value of the phone plummet to 0. I am waiting it out, having the issue, and the issue with the sensor. But to be sure, at 28 days, I will take a look and possibly head back to the 3Gs.

Here is the text of a letter sent to SJ this am:

One can't help but wonder if some of the "dropped calls" that are being blamed on the antenna are in fact related to the proximity sensor and accidentally hitting the end call button. I seem to recall someone saying they had a bunch of dropped calls, took it to a genius who checked the log and said there were no dropped calls, even though the person knew they had had calls dropped. Maybe there weren't any dropped calls. Maybe they just accidentally hung up because of the proximity sensor issue.
post #204 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

One can't help but wonder if some of the "dropped calls" that are being blamed on the antenna are in fact related to the proximity sensor and accidentally hitting the end call button. I seem to recall someone saying they had a bunch of dropped calls, took it to a genius who checked the log and said there were no dropped calls, even though the person knew they had had calls dropped. Maybe there weren't any dropped calls. Maybe they just accidentally hung up because of the proximity sensor issue.

Huh. I hadn't even thought of that even though I know I have the proximity sensor issue, and have muted and disconnected calls on my iPhone 4. I don't recall once getting a Call Failed message.
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post #205 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by st3v3 View Post

"Yet, in some places where the signal was relatively weak, the iPhone 4 showed no bars, or fewer bars than its predecessor. Apple says that this is a bug it plans to fix, and that it has to do with the way the bars are presented, not the actual ability to make a call. And, in fact, in nearly all of these cases, the iPhone 4 was able to place calls despite the lack of bars."

Apple was referring to a misrepresentation of bars that will be fixed in software, not an actual loss of service, loss of connection speed, lack of data access, or any of these REAL issues people are complaining about. There is a bug fix for a possible misrepresentation, yes. A bug fix for those with impacted service? That has been yet to be discussed.

The dropping bars problem has been well documented - and Apple says they're going to fix it.

So far, there's no evidence that the number of calls dropped is any greater than the previous version (or any other phone, for that matter). In fact, Anand says that even when the number of bars drops, they were able to make calls. If you're aware of any real, non-anecdotal evidence, feel free to provide it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

When held in the left hand, not held to your head as a phone, but holding it to use the computer functions of the device and/or on speaker, it's quite likely that the seam may be pressed against the base of one's thumb, in the most natural holding position. Under normal use, the contact may not be constant, but that touching this spot intentionally shows the ability to consistently reproduce the issue on some iP4s (but seemingly not all iP4s) points to a definite problem, the exact cause and nature of which is not understood, nor, apparently, even investigated by any of the articles that have been quoted or referenced.

That's nice. But if you're holding it in your hand to access the internet, it's just not that big a deal to hold it a bit higher on the phone. It will take a total of 15 seconds to learn to hold it in a way that it's not affected.

I just got a new car. I had to learn where all the controls are. Is it a defect because I can't hit the windshield wipersl the way I'm used to?
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post #206 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

... That's nice. But if you're holding it in your hand to access the internet, it's just not that big a deal to hold it a bit higher on the phone. It will take a total of 15 seconds to learn to hold it in a way that it's not affected.

I just got a new car. I had to learn where all the controls are. Is it a defect because I can't hit the windshield wipersl the way I'm used to?

Not a valid analogy. This isn't like figuring out where the mute switch is.

Avoiding touching a part of the phone that will normally come in contact with your hand when held naturally for ordinary use isn't really an acceptable solution. Insisting that it is just makes you the anti-Ireland.

It's one thing for the signal to drop slightly when held, it's entirely another thing that it drops out altogether when touched in a specific spot a user is highly likely to touch.
post #207 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

The dropping bars problem has been well documented - and Apple says they're going to fix it.

So far, there's no evidence that the number of calls dropped is any greater than the previous version (or any other phone, for that matter). If you're aware of any real, non-anecdotal evidence, feel free to provide it.



That's nice. But if you're holding it in your hand to access the internet, it's just not that big a deal to hold it a bit higher on the phone. It will take a total of 15 seconds to learn to hold it in a way that it's not affected.

I just got a new car. I had to learn where all the controls are. Is it a defect because I can't hit the windshield wipersl the way I'm used to?

Yes, the misrepresentation of the level of service available in bars will be fixed by apple according to the Mossberg review.

However, the issue with actual signal attenuation has not been promised to be fixed or improved at all. The issue is, apparently, worse than other phones. This has been found both by owners and reviewers. Check out this article posted here:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...on_issues.html

Also, that's not a good analogy for this situation at all. How about, "I just got a new car, and if I put my hands on a certain spot on the steering wheel I can't steer" ? Should the user have to be conscious of how and where they hold their phone for it to work? Isn't Apple all about ease of use? I don't believe this is something someone should defend, regardless of the company behind the product. Then again, you DID put electrical tape on your phone so clearly you're willing to slap a bandaid on your malfunctioning product.

(Disclaimer: Not saying all iPhone 4s are malfunctioning. There are clearly a good number working just fine)
post #208 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by st3v3 View Post

Yes, the misrepresentation of the level of service available in bars will be fixed by apple according to the Mossberg review.

However, the issue with actual signal attenuation has not been promised to be fixed or improved at all. The issue is, apparently, worse than other phones. This has been found both by owners and reviewers. Check out this article posted here:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...on_issues.html

That's the point everyone keeps missing. It's NOT something that happens the way most people hold the phone when making a call. I'm not making calls with my hand cupped around the bottom of the phone - and I don't recall EVER seeing anyone else do that - in the thousands of people I've seen making phone calls.

It's a very real theoretical problem. There is, however, no evidence that it cause real problems (increase in dropped calls) compared to previous phones.



Quote:
Originally Posted by st3v3 View Post

Also, that's not a good analogy for this situation at all. How about, "I just got a new car, and if I put my hands on a certain spot on the steering wheel I can't steer" ? Should the user have to be conscious of how and where they hold their phone for it to work? Isn't Apple all about ease of use? I don't believe this is something someone should defend, regardless of the company behind the product. Then again, you DID put electrical tape on your phone so clearly you're willing to slap a bandaid on your malfunctioning product.

Your analogy is no good either. More like: "If I reach around and press a spot on the inside of the glove compartment, the car won't start". Not a big deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Not a valid analogy. This isn't like figuring out where the mute switch is.

Avoiding touching a part of the phone that will normally come in contact with your hand when held naturally for ordinary use isn't really an acceptable solution. Insisting that it is just makes you the anti-Ireland.

It's one thing for the signal to drop slightly when held, it's entirely another thing that it drops out altogether when touched in a specific spot a user is highly likely to touch.

Anand's testing didn't show that it dropped out. And it's not highly likely that a user is going to touch it when making a phone call. In fact, it's difficult to do so.

You're also ignoring the fact that the iPhone 4 is more sensitive than other phones out there, at least according to Anand's tests. So even if it has a greateer drop in signal quality, greater sensitivity means that it may not drop calls as much. In fact, Anand reported that they were getting calls in places that they couldn't get calls with the 3GS.
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post #209 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

Both sides want to be right, plain and simple. There is probably a fear here that if the phone is indeed defective, then they are in a minimum 2 year relationship that could see the risdual value of the phone plummet to 0. I am waiting it out, having the issue, and the issue with the sensor. But to be sure, at 28 days, I will take a look and possibly head back to the 3Gs.

Here is the text of a letter sent to SJ this am:

Yap, I could not honestly give a shit less about the antenna issues because they are user-fixable. Hold the phone a different way, get a bumper - boom, no problem. However, the proximity sensor is annoying to say the least. Putting people on speaker, muting them, hanging up, etc. It's beginning to seem that the most challenging task for iPhone 4 to accomplish is actually making a good phone call. That's worrisome.
post #210 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by haveyoumetmark View Post

Yap, I could not honestly give a shit less about the antenna issues because they are user-fixable. Hold the phone a different way, get a bumper - boom, no problem. However, the proximity sensor is annoying to say the least. Putting people on speaker, muting them, hanging up, etc.

People hit a button by mistake all the time. Eventually, they learn not to do that.

I haven't had a single problem making or completing a call with my iPhone. The proximity sensor seems to behave exactly like the previous one. I guess if I mashed my phone against my cheek, I could hit a button, but if I were doing that, I probably would have had a problem with other touchscreen phones, too.
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post #211 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That's the point everyone keeps missing. It's NOT something that happens the way most people hold the phone when making a call. I'm not making calls with my hand cupped around the bottom of the phone - and I don't recall EVER seeing anyone else do that - in the thousands of people I've seen making phone calls.

It's a very real theoretical problem. There is, however, no evidence that it cause real problems (increase in dropped calls) compared to previous phones.





Your analogy is no good either. More like: "If I reach around and press a spot on the inside of the glove compartment, the car won't start". Not a big deal.



Anand's testing didn't show that it dropped out. And it's not highly likely that a user is going to touch it when making a phone call. In fact, it's difficult to do so.

You're also ignoring the fact that the iPhone 4 is more sensitive than other phones out there, at least according to Anand's tests. So even if it has a greateer drop in signal quality, greater sensitivity means that it may not drop calls as much. In fact, Anand reported that they were getting calls in places that they couldn't get calls with the 3GS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It's a temporary fix while waiting for the software update that Apple told Mossberg would be forthcoming.

If covering the seam is supposedly as much of a task as reaching around and pressing a spot inside the glove compartment, why do you have tape on your phone? Clearly it requires such effort to cover that area that you put tape on it as a temporary fix.
post #212 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

Just because Apple says so doesn't make it so. I suggest you read this article.

http://fscked.co.uk/post/751030001/m...4-signal-issue

There is something severely wrong when you can affect the signal of antenna with a cut up 1 in. paperclip. It's clear from that video that all you have to do is is essentially connect the two antennas to lose reception, much less have a "death grip" to block the signal.

Apple just may be able to fix it in software but it seems unlikely. When you watch that video it seems like a hardware issue.

I can cover my phone with a thin piece of plastic and it still has issues. I'm not sure if the paperclip really proves much other than you can bridge the two antennas with a piece of metal.
post #213 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by st3v3 View Post

If covering the seam is supposedly as much of a task as reaching around and pressing a spot inside the glove compartment, why do you have tape on your phone? Clearly it requires such effort to cover that area that you put tape on it as a temporary fix.

Because I fell for the 'sky is falling' crap that so many people are spewing. After a while, I realized that it wasn't doing anything and it was ugly, so I took it off - and there was no difference in my ability to make or receive calls.
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