AppleCare memo emphasizes no free bumpers for iPhone 4 reception - Page 3

Hundreds of thousands?

Here is my one issue with this account:

While I absolutely believe this story, I know for a fact that their are thousands of other users who are absolutely NOT able to reproduce the actions described above.
What does that mean??

I have no doubt that there are more than handful that genuinely have this issue with their iPhone 4. (not sure about 200,000+ iPhones with this problem).

I disagree with the idea that Apple should give away a Bumper to everyone. I disagree with the commenters that claim it's a "short circuit" and than Apple simply doesn't know how to make a phone or understand how RF works.

I have stated that Jobs' email reply, while technically correct, was very poorly worded and should not be said (then again, I've thought he terse email replies always had the potential to do plenty of damage and that has no come true).

I've stated on plenty of other threads that I would not put up with this issue and that I would get a new iPhone 4 or return it for a full refund if they actually refused to get me a new one. Nowhere in my post did I mean to imply that users aren't having a legitimate issue.

This is getting silly...

Seemingly the same group of folks on this Forum are screaming at Apple here... The Sky Is Falling...

Others say what I've been thinking:

Shut Up and Return It? But the screamers don't seem to respond to that! So then I wonder:

what do they really want? Are they trolls, or whatever?

Then there are those who try to recreate this issue and can't! The funniest yet was the guy whose wife had this issue with 2 of their phones, but the guy/husband can't recreate this issue, and same goes for most others who have bought this product which is hardly available because of the huge demand!

Most people use iPhone with Cases! Many use it with Hands-free Ear Pieces, wired or Bluetooth, thus this issue won't come up in those cases!

Of course there are always those to whom Steve Jobs is a Devil..., and so they wish him, a cancer survivor, a speedy death, or so it seems from their venomous comments!

So... If most people are not having this issue, and Apple can't meet the demand, is it fair to be demanding free Bumpers?

Apple refuses to be dragged into this topic, as they are likely working on a fix...
Apple doesn't want to acknowledge this as a problem, cause they don't feel that it is!
Apple's Refund Policy allows for Return of their products, and I assume that includes item!

So, by dealing with this the way Apple is, Apple is calling some people's bluff -- Shut Up, or Return it for a Refund...

People are free to buy another phone, or design their own!

As I've read some antenna expert:

It's always a trade off! Apple took this antenna to the edge for better reception, because they understand that most people will use the case, and or Hands-Free!

With all the conflicting reports, plus no problem for most people, it's hard to know what the best fix would be!

I am getting suspicious of the same names here SCREAMING at Apple!
Again I say:

Apple is calling your bluff -- Shut Up, or Return it for a Refund!

Buy another phone, or design their own!

How about "lets not give away the 10 cent rubber piece because we can still charge $30 FOR IT?

I mean seriously. I watched the keynote and 2 seconds after I saw the antenna design I wondered what would happen if my hand or a coin or key in your pocket bridged the antenna and you got no signal. And Apple acts "surprised"?

Wow.
Now I do question the account you gave in your previous post.
You have clearly pulled the "hundreds of thousands" number out of your a**
It causes one to question your other post.

wow. such a narrow view. i actually know a lot of 'righties' that have iphones.

apple will survive this.

I actually understand their policy. If they gave away free bumpers, this would be an admission of a defective product and if a lawsuit ever goes into effect, the judge would use Apple's goodwill efforts to appease just a few unhappy iPhone 4 owners, and turn it into a possible class action suit.
In my past years of working with a major auto manufacturer and we were often told not to give any concession to a customer with a complaint to avoid a potential recall or lemon law return.

I believe that Apple are aware of an actual problem and are working on a software fix, but will release an update that has a very vague description of how the fix was implemented. In a month or two, this will all be forgotten.

Any sensible Judge will ask, "Well why didn't you take it back for a refund as is your right?"...

...the end, case closed.

That's exactly what I was doing, thanks. The thread started unraveling before it could begin.

This morning I ran across someone with the bridging problem with their iPhone 4. Sitting next to phone at a coffee shop he could replicate the issue at will by placing his phone on its side and touching that gap with his finger. No need to "death grip" it, just a downward pointed finger tip. Started with 5 bars and it goes to No Service in about 10 seconds.

My phone sitting next to his does not in any way exert this issue. I've tested it all over, even in areas with EDGE and GPRS (of all things) so I've likely run the gamut on radio types (even with WiFI and BT on and off. Nothing. This tells me it's an issue with the production of those units or a production of chips in those units, perhaps from TriQuint, but not a "design flaw" that "short circuits" the exposed antenna.

Note today was the 7th day I and most of my friends have had an iPhone 4. One had a DOA phone, another had a bad internal mic (not noise cancelation mic), and everyone else I know has perfectly working iPhone 4s. The two with issues got them replaced immediately.

I walked into an apple store and was able to replicate the problem on all 12 of the iPhone 4's I tested. Holding the phone exactly as I hold the iPhone 3GS, they all dropped to 0 bars (but not showing no service).

Did you try having your friend hold your phone? Maybe your skin doesn't have the conductivity that he does. I know that I have fairly sweaty palms, so that may be exacerbating the problem.

The class action part has already happened.

Actually, fixes after the fact are inadmissible as evidence of a problem in the first place. The reason is the law does not want to discourage defendants from proactively remedying the problem if there is pending litigation.

I tried that in an Apple Store and could replicate the issue with 1 of 17 iPhone 4s on display. They had an iPhone 3GS as lonely number 18.

I've tried everything. pieces of metal (which are more conductive), and even soaked my hand in water that had been ionized by releasing the sodium NetiPot contents into the water dipping to see what salty wet hands could do. Nothing. We're talking about radio frequencies here, not electricity, so this entire concept of a "short circuit" has never made sense to me.


Here are some examples of what salt can do (enjoy!):

•

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khW3nLG_xoY
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YZJt_Bw3eo

Did you happen to try to make it happen on his phone by you touching it with your finger? Or have him try to make it happen on yours? I mean, I know I don't like people to touch my iPhone either, but, in the interest of science, you know...

EDIT: Ah, I see you have tried it with other iPhones with mixed (mostly negative) results. I will say the fact that it doesn't seem consistently reproducible makes it seem as though it is not a design issue, and not a software problem. It really is starting to look to me like some sort of manufacturing issue.

Obviously, there is no way to tell what is going on here. Maybe my Apple store got an exceedingly bad batch of iPhones. I even asked fellow random customers to give it a try and the reception dropped on them too.

Even cupping both my hands across the bottom and top halves of my iPhone 3GS, I can't replicate the problem, but it happens easily on every iPhone 4 I have come across.

Apple won't just not give me a new bumper they won't give me a replacement phone either. I was told that clearly by a level 2 technician today having been told last Friday, by the exact same technician that they would replace the phone if they couldn't fix it. The technician said there was no point giving me a new phone because it would do the same thing and there was no point putting it in for repair because they would find nothing wrong with it so I would just be wasting my time, but he did say I could do that if I wanted to.

I will probably keep the phone though because other than that and a few minor software bugs, I'm amazed at how good it is. Unless a SW fix comes I don't see being able to get a properly functioning phone until at the very minimum a years time if Apple redesigns the antenna, and that's too long for me to want to go without an iPhone. It sucks, but the alternatives suck even more.

Just give us 29.95.
This seems like Microsoft, not Apple; What the heck happened?
Has corporate greed reached even Apple?

For the sake of "fair and balanced" reporting... for heck's sake, get it and post it.

Then Steve needs to step up and clear the air! Make a statement.

Truer words have never been spoken.


Have you seen AnandTech's review of the EVO 4G? He'll likely have a review of the iPhone 4 up tonight or tomorrow.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3791/t...-evo-4g-review
That is the experience I have. Attenuation by blocking the signal in some way is common and expected, but the drop from 5 bars to No Service should not be happening to any phone, especially when the only thing touching the phone is a finger tip over the infamous bridge between antennas.



I can't think of anything we didn't do. Our phones probably need therapy after the way they were molested this morning.

Besides switching phones, we also tried to hold a phone in each hand and then switch hands, and place the two iPhone 4s next to each other. That was interesting as his UTMS antenna was touching my WiFI antenna and vice versa. His dropped to No Service and mine was fine.

Unfortunately, your alternatives are:

1) get a bumper OR

2) don't hold your phone that way.

Nice tactics that! That's a company that prides itself on providing what they claim. Total BS, because your actually right and if I do return my phone that will be what pushes me to do it.

Or, the lawyers will get nothing at all and bear the costs. As I pointed out in another thread, the point of this type of lawsuit, in general, isn't entirely to compensate the class, it's also to discourage companies from engaging in bad behavior with the idea that there's nothing an individual consumer can do about it, and to mete out financial punishment to those who do. So, without a financial incentive to do so, law firms would never bring these suits. They stand to gain financially, but they also assume a certain amount of financial risk. It's the way the legal system in this country has been fashioned to work, and, although it may not be the best of all possible systems, those who would "reform" it do so with the risk of introducing imbalances, or new injustices, that may be worse than the problems they perceive, especially if they think they can do it with simple, one-sided fixes.

Bringing Religion into this? I must not be christian enough. (I am not Christian, that must be the problem)

Most people will be buying a case once they become available. This will resolve your problem as well as give you protection. Those that aren't satisfied should return their iphone. REMEMBER, once the 30 days is up it's yours!

1,200,000 people share would share their love-my-iPhone 4 stories, but they're too busy enjoying their phones.

www.don'tbothermewiththisdeathgripbs.com

I'll second that.


I'm sure it's nothing that a little FaceTime won't cure. It really does sound like a manufacturing issue, though, not a design issue, not software.

3) Return it for a refund.

4) Get over it.

I think SW is a best case scenario. Maybe the TriQuint UMTS chip drivers are getting confused.

Worst case scenario is a production issue with some component or the assembly.

Worst, worst case scenario is Apple "solves" the problem the HW issue with SW which instead masks the issue of the dropping bars by altering the algorithm so the user has no visual indication of why a call has dropped or why their internet service has failed.

However, that worst, worst case scenario should be easy to figure out as at least one video shows a guy touching just the gap between antennas and having the NYTimes fail to load until he lets it go. If the problem isn't adequately solved with SW then page loadings should still resemble that video. I recommend everyone with an iPhone 4 try and document his method before and after this impending update.

•

http://vimeo.com/12864890

Either you get a product that works as expected or you get your money back, at least in the US. I don't care if he says the problem will exist on another iPhone. I'll decide that and if it does then I'll decide whether to try a third or to get my money back and take my business elsewhere or wait for a real fix to happen.

Mean spirited, and not called for.

Where did you get this "hundreds of thousands" number? Did you pull it out of your ass? It figures.

No, it has not happened yet, just a few Lawyers testing the waters.

Point taken. Talk of a class action over a device people can freely return risk free has happened.

I talked with a lot of people and I can tell you that:

Millions... no, Billions are happy with their iPhone 4.

Yeah, that's the ticket!

Agreed If you are not satisfied return it! That simple.

The chip drivers seems unlikely, unless it's different batches of chips and the drivers are embedded on the chip (which would make it a HW/manufacturing issue, really), and some of them are messed up, or, unless they are part of the firmware and some iPhones had bad firmware loaded on them, which is possible. I suppose bridging the seam could cause some confusion that the bad firmware/chip drivers couldn't handle.

It's kind of hard to imagine what sort of manufacturing issue could cause it either, though. Maybe an internal connection that isn't solid, but it seems a little too specific for that. Maybe the composition of the antennae on some phones, causing them to not behave as expected (although, that could maybe be compensated for in software).

The only thing that it doesn't seem to look like is that it's a design flaw, otherwise it should be affecting all phones in the same area, and handled by the same person, the same.

But if there was a problem with even a small batch of iPhones, wouldn't Apple want to "exchange" a bunch of them so they can do an autopsy on the problematic phones and figure out what the real problem is?

Has Apple exchanged anyone's iPhone 4 due to this antenna problem?

I can understand saying no to free bumbers, but telling people they hold their phone the wrong way is not a good thing to say to your customers. Say somethng like its true that holding iPhone a certain way is not the best practice and that they will work to help make it better, but don't tell people who paid for the phone that they are wrong. Customer is always right, even when they are wrong.