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Wireless experts weigh in on iPhone 4 reception issues - Page 4

post #121 of 376
I wonder if this whole thing would go away if the bumpers didn't seem to be so overpriced. I can imagine it's annoying if the phone drops calls because you are holding it in a way you naturally hold any other phone, and it's probably doubly annoying if the solution to that is to pay what feels like way over the odds for the bumper.

For the record, I don't own an iPhone 4, so I can't comment on how severe this problem is. I have a Blackberry that my company gives me, and that's shit for reasons a cover won't fix.
post #122 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Your argument is Apple purposely built a phone that would have signal issues from being held (even though this isn't happening in all iPhone 4s) so they could sell you a $30 case?

No, solipsism... that wasn't my assertion, nor did my statement require the type of response it received. I think this was a case where, this defect was noticed too late in the manufacturing process, and some genius at Apple came up with Plan B instead of scrapping the original design. It was a coincidence, not a conspiracy. That was my point. Chill out...
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post #123 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Of course they didn't purposely build a phone with this issue. My personal opinion is that this antenna issue was noticed far too late in the designing/production process. Thus they came up with this cheaper solution instead of redesigning and delaying the iPhone 4. They took a chance this issue would not get the attention it is now receiving. It's just too much of a coincidence that this is the first time Apple has produced a case. And the case only covers the antenna.

Nice catch.
post #124 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

HA!

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/30/a...r-some-reason/

Three Apple job postings for iPhone / iPad antenna engineers to "Define and implement antenna system architecture to optimize the radiation performance for wireless portable devices." All three were posted on June 23rd, the same day that we started seeing widespread reporting of the left-handed reception issues. Coincidence?

I'd say: "Coincidence? Yes!"

First: it takes a bit of time to get a hiring request through HR.

Second: if they have an immediate need to resolve an iPhone 4 defect, they would get quicker results by contracting experts as consultants, rather than going through the: interviewing; reviewing; hiring; being on the job process (a process that could easily take weeks or months).

Third: Apple has many recent patents involving wireless communication-- from this I infer that Apple is working on several wireless devices to be used with, or in conjunction with, the iPhone and iPad.

Some rumored devices have been: an inexpensive universal remote control; various NFC/RFID device features to enhance purchasing goods, boarding trains, etc; AppleTV-like server device that allows multiple content, concurrently streaming to different devices-- say, several iPhones and iPads throughout the house (or campus) concurrently watching different movies/TV shows/Video Podcasts/Educational courses.

There were some additional listings, and more information posted here:

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/30/...neering-staff/

If you look at the archives of the following site you will find a lot of patent activity related to wireless communication

http://www.patentlyapple.com/

.
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post #125 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodar View Post

I have a iPhone, and I can't use it while I'm at work. I've had it since the day it was released, and left Verizon (that had fantastic coverage) because I assumed Apple knew what it was doing - especially since this is the 4th generation device.

Why don't you just return it?!
post #126 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Of course they didn't purposely build a phone with this issue. My personal opinion is that this antenna issue was noticed far too late in the designing/production process. Thus they came up with this cheaper solution instead of redesigning and delaying the iPhone 4. They took a chance this issue would not get the attention it is now receiving. It's just too much of a coincidence that this is the first time Apple has produced a case. And the case only covers the antenna.

That's a silly assumption. Apple has a phone they are working on for a couple years. They specifics on every aspect of the phone, not just a simple rating of zero to 5 bars to denote signal strength. You're saying that Apple had no knowledge of how RF attenuation works AND didn't do any real world testing until after it was being produced AND then decided to design the Bumpers at the last minute to correct this problem BUT only for a sale price WHILST not coating the antenna for cheap in the factory AND hoping that no one who had an iPhone would notice any reception issues because Apple doesn't get any attention in the media? WTH!?!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoobs View Post

Also 88022 here - UK iPhone 4 purchased from the online Apple store

Could anyone with an iPhone which *doesn't* exhibit the issue confirm if the first five digits of their serial number matches or not?

My phone doesn't have any issues with reception, service or throughput when I touch "the spot".
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post #127 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I'd say yes!

First: it takes a bit of time to get a hiring request through HR.

Second: if they have an immediate need to resolve an iPhone 4 defect, they would get quicker results by contracting experts as consultants, rather than going through the: interviewing; reviewing; hiring; being on the job process (a process that could easily take weeks or months).

Third: Apple has many recent patents involving wireless communication-- from this I infer that Apple is working on several wireless devices to be used with, or in conjunction with, the iPhone and iPad.

Some rumored devices have been: an inexpensive universal remote control; various NCF/RFID device features to enhance purchasing goods, boarding trains, etc; AppleTV-like server device that allows multiple content, concurrently streaming to different devices-- say, several iPhones and iPads throughout the house (or campus) concurrently watching different movies/TV shows/Video Podcasts/Educational courses.

There were some additional listings, and more information posted here:

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/30/...neering-staff/

If you look at the archives of the following site you will find a lot of patent activity related to wireless communication

http://www.patentlyapple.com/

.

Or it could be Steve Jobs is pissed about this whole antenna issue and fired the group responsible for it. Now he needs people to fill their shoes.
post #128 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

My phone doesn't have any issues with reception, service or throughput when I touch "the spot".

Interesting - mine drops like a stone if I hold it naturally in my left hand.

Not that it bothers me much, it doesn't take much to just alter my grip slightly

The only annoyance would be if it still exhibited the issue whilst placed in my pocket, as missing calls from that would certainly be a major issue - I've not noticed anything yet though.
post #129 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLBluesFan View Post

What is "telling" is that you claim someone reporting no issues with the iPhone 4 to be the only person giving a hands-on review. Clearly you're adopting the classic head-in-sand approach to the numerous other reports on Appleinsider (and elsewhere) from owners of the iPhone 4 who ARE having problems.

I can only hope Apple is not taking the same approach as you (though Jobs and Apple's initial responses were very disconcerting).

You misinterpreted my response and I am willing to admit that it may be my fault.

What is telling is the lack of response from those that have been vilifying Apple and the iPhone and yet have failed to participate. It begs the question, are those that are speaking so vociferously opposing actually have the device?

Certainly, if we are interested in getting the issue resolved, why not contribute to helping sift out the rhetoric and get some usable data even though to can only demonstrate a pattern at that.
post #130 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

I am sure Mr. Greenwood stands humbly in the shadow of your erudition.

If you can't debate the FACT, then insult the messenger .... nice work!
post #131 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by galore View Post

Sure, my IP4 also drops bars (but still has signal) if I bridge the gap...

I just hold it so that I don't bridge the gap and it works perfectly. If I had the choice between sleek stainless steel band and perfect reception, I'd choose the former because the phone works just fine, no matter how it's held.

I kinda agree with Job's response. How difficult is it to just slide the phone 1/2 inch down to clear the gap?!

Total crybabies. And the comparison with Toyota - ridiculous. As if 2 dropped bars equal run-away acceleration of a car. LOL!

Whatever... Most consumers obviously have much higher standards/expectations for device functionality than you.
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post #132 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by galore View Post

Why don't you just return it?!

Let's look at the alternatives, shall we?

Trade it in for a new G4 (others have done this, problem repeats - why bother?)
Commit to a 2 yr contract with a competitor for an inferior phone
Commit to a 2 yr contract with a 3GS and stay with AT&T

Or, apply pressure to Apple to fix the problem, and make good on the product they advertised.

I still have 3 weeks to tell AT&T that I am cancelling my contract due to the inability of Apple to deliver the product they promised - so unless Apple actually does deliver - I will go back to Verizon and get the Incredable.
post #133 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleStud View Post

Dick Gaywood?

Uh, hi. You may know Richard, but you don't know.....
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post #134 of 376
That chart should sell some 3gs's.

Seriously, .2 on open palm while ip4 is 9.2? 1.9 compared to 19.8 hed naturally!!??

What's bizarre though is the ip4 is the only one who's signal actually gets better with a case. I guess that's just because it's just so bad with skin to phone that it would get better.

Interesting article.
post #135 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodar View Post

Let's look at the alternatives, shall we?

Trade it in for a new G4 (others have done this, problem repeats - why bother?)
Commit to a 2 yr contract with a competitor for an inferior phone
Commit to a 2 yr contract with a 3GS and stay with AT&T

Or, apply pressure to Apple to fix the problem, and make good on the product they advertised.

I still have 3 weeks to tell AT&T that I am cancelling my contract due to the inability of Apple to deliver the product they promised - so unless Apple actually does deliver - I will go back to Verizon and get the Incredable.

I was in agreement with you all the way up until the end, then I lol'd. The incredible apparently suffers from the same issue. It might not be as bad, but it's still there.

I say the features of the phone are enough to just stick a rubber case on it and then use the warranty once you know revised versions are coming off the assembly line (if that ever happens.)
post #136 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by galore View Post

Sure, my IP4 also drops bars (but still has signal) if I bridge the gap...

I kinda agree with Job's response. How difficult is it to just slide the phone 1/2 inch down to clear the gap?!

Total crybabies. And the comparison with Toyota - ridiculous. As if 2 dropped bars equal run-away acceleration of a car. LOL!

"I smoke and don't have cancer - therefore there is no such thing as cancer".

Here's a newflash for you .... cell phones are analog in nature, there is some level of signal that is required to defeat background noise and establish a signal. If you are in a high coverage area - you will find it almost impossible to block the signal. Use a metal coin, heck - weld the silly gap with gold. The strength of the signal will blast through loud and clear.

But, go for a hike, or drive your car away from the high signal areas, and get a flat tire. Enjoy trying to call for help when you drop the call every time you touch your phone. Not everyone lives and works next to a tower - and sooner or later you will travel to an area with poor coverage. Then you too will discover the joy of dropping calls, or losing service by simply touching the phone.

And when some idiot (hello Stevie) says "You are holding the phone wrong"; you will want to stick your phone in a very unhygenic place. All you have to do is touch the phone - or even lay it in your palm.

As another poster cleverly pointed out.... what an amazing coincidence that the first time that Apple has ever made a case for an iPhone, the case is the only product that makes their iPhone useable.
post #137 of 376
Today I went to an O2 store in a town near me that's gets Edge not 3G and with my Vodafone iPhone 4 tried on 2 cases one plasic and one rubber. At the front of the store I had five bars then holding the phone naturally with no case it dropped to no service, with the case it dropped to 2 bars and no lower. Both cases seemed exactly the same for reception quality. I also tested standing further into the store. Without touching the lower left corner got 2 bars with no case it quickly fell to no service with each case and holding the phone naturally, it fell to no service but took a few seconds longer.

I also tried one of the display iPhone 4's. It was showing 5 bars on o2's 3G. When I held the lower left corner it fairly quickly, 10 seconds fell to 2 bars and stayed there, quickly going back to 5 bars when I took my hand away.

The good news then is that cases make a noticeable difference but in lower reception areas aren't enough to prevent no service.
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post #138 of 376
Just in case it wasn't linked to in the main article, AnandTech's review is good, as well as his other reviews (most recently the EVO 4G):



http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review
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post #139 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodar View Post

Enjoy trying to call for help when you drop the call every time you touch your phone.

Let me take a wild guess.... You don't have an iPhone 4.
post #140 of 376
There are suddenly some vacant positions for antenna engineers at Apple. This whole antenna issue keeps on giving!
post #141 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Today I went to an O2 store in a town near me that's gets Edge not 3G and with my Vodafone iPhone 4 tried on 2 cases one plasic and one rubber. At the front of the store I had five bars then holding the phone naturally with no case it dropped to no service, with the case it dropped to 2 bars and no lower. Both cases seemed exactly the same for reception quality. I also tested standing further into the store. Without touching the lower left corner got 2 bars with no case it quickly fell to no service with each case and holding the phone naturally, it fell to no service but took a few seconds longer.

I also tried one of the display iPhone 4's. It was showing 5 bars on o2's 3G. When I held the lower left corner it fairly quickly, 10 seconds fell to 2 bars and stayed there, quickly going back to 5 bars when I took my hand away.

The good news then is that cases make a noticeable difference but in lower reception areas aren't enough to prevent no service.

It has been reported that even though there was a drop in bars the phone still worked. It would appear that your iPhone was still operational at 2 bars for sure and based on your last statement you were still able to communicate?

Were you able to make calls when no bars were being displayed?

Would certainly be interested in where you are located. Is it regional? Does everybody in your region observing the same problem?

And one other question. Is it possible that some of the iPhone antennas were manufactured, processed or assembled differently. Or even coated?
post #142 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What are the first 5 digits of everyone with an iPhone 4?
Mine is: 88022
Factory: 88 . .= ???
. .Year: . 0 . = 2010
. .Week: . .22 = May 30thJune 5th?

Mine is 86025

I only see bars lower when I'm in an area of weak 3g service to begin with and even then it doesn't affect download speeds terribly bad

Battery life is fantastic as a side note
post #143 of 376
The Apple apologists are amazing. Apple could ship a Macbook with a Q key that didn't work, and they'd argue that hardly any words use the letter Q and you can always buy a bluetooth keyboard if you really need it.

iPhone 4 is amazing - if only I could rely on it to not drop calls.
post #144 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by tekbeattv View Post

Hey Guys,

Yea I posted a reception video on youtube as a sample to see the bars drop (mine drop FAST):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNHpvElnqmU

I also followed up with testing it with a case as well as making my way to a store to ask the fantastic apple reps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbJDi5B7ibU

My conclusion is the same as the PH.D in the article, fantastic device, lousy phone capabilities .

Will

www.youtube.com/tekbeattv
www.tekbeattv.com

First of all, get a manicure or clean your fingernails.

Second if you want to demonstrate the effect, wouldn't it be better to slide the unlock slider (and possibly set the timeout setting) so the iPhone doesn't keep going to sleep.

Third: Who are you? What are your credentials/motivation? Did you actual buy the iPhone for personal use? Have you ever used an iPhone? You really don't seem to know the basics of operating an iPhone:

-- Step 1: press the home button
-- Step 2: slide the "slide to unlock" slider (I must admit that this step is a toughie, and non-intuitive).

Without some more background, you come across as: a spreader of schadenfreude; someone who is after his 15 minutes of fame; a whiney guy after some sort of free case-- apparently Apple offered a replacement iPhone, but you declined to even consider that offer, as you were after getting, or being refused, a free case!

That's the way I read your post and video.

What is even more interesting is your history on AI:

Join Date
06-30-2010
Total Posts
2

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post #145 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyb0731 View Post

Mine is 86025

I only see bars lower when I'm in an area of weak 3g service to begin with and even then it doesn't affect download speeds terribly bad

Battery life is fantastic as a side note

Were you able to make calls?

By the way, I live somewhat out in the country and close by there is an area of rolling hills which causes the bars to fall precipitously and even drop calls. However, I was able to resolve the issue by a hint I found last year, i.e., I shut off 3G. Works every time.
post #146 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

Were you able to make calls?

Yep, that hasn't been a problem
post #147 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

Fear is a better motivator than reverence. I guarantee you the job for antenna engineer hirings are due to people who've been fired.

Please cite a reference and link supporting your assertion!

.
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post #148 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

It has been reported that even though there was a drop in bars the phone still worked. It would appear that your iPhone was still operational at 2 bars for sure and based on your last statement you were still able to communicate?

Were you able to make calls when no bars were being displayed?

Would certainly be interested in where you are located. Is it regional? Does everybody in your region observing the same problem?

And one other question. Is it possible that some of the iPhone antennas were manufactured, processed or assembled differently. Or even coated?

I didn't try any calls in the store.

My iPhone will only give a failed call right before or at the same time it says no service same goes with the Internet, pages will completely stop loading when no service comes up. 2 bars and I get Internet and no dropped calls.

I'm in the Borders, Scotland. I don't know anyone else with an iPhone 4. As I've driven around this area (20 mile radius) the same reception issues have happened everywhere.

I've no idea about the coatings etc on iPhones and whether they vary but I suspect they don't. It's warm here for Scotland and I have noticed that when my hands are hot and slightly sweaty the problem is more pronounced than when I'm inactive and my hands are very dry.
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post #149 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyb0731 View Post

Mine is 86025

I only see bars lower when I'm in an area of weak 3g service to begin with and even then it doesn't affect download speeds terribly bad

Battery life is fantastic as a side note

Mine is 88021
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post #150 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Or it could be Steve Jobs is pissed about this whole antenna issue and fired the group responsible for it. Now he needs people to fill their shoes.

Possibly! But, then I'd expect to see some "wrongful termination" lawsuits and some heavy blog activity by the terminees! Seems they could get quite a forum for their issues!


That said, I like the way they did it in the old days:

Thomas Watson Sr. joined NCR as a salesman in Buffalo, New York in October of 1895. He was to become a protégé of Patterson, only to leave NCR in favor of an even more impressive task: the making of IBM.

Watson became enormously popular with the NCR sales force and Patterson reportedly grew envious. Watson’s behavior became increasingly confident and began to oppose some of Patterson’s policies. In literally a fiery end, Patterson “fired” Watson (upon returning from a trip to Europe, reportedly Watson found his desk burning out on the lawn in front of headquarters). At age 40 he left NCR...


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post #151 of 376
I find it amusing how Apple proudly promoted there is no right or wrong way to hold the iPad. Great design !! Designing a product that fits the user. Apple took a compete 180 on the iPhone 4. There is suddenly a right and wrong way to hold their newest product. And the way many people normally hold a cell phone is now the wrong way. The user now has to adapt to the product.
post #152 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

My phone doesn't have any issues with reception, service or throughput when I touch "the spot".

Are you referring to "the 3G spot"

.
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post #153 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodar View Post

"I smoke and don't have cancer - therefore there is no such thing as cancer".

Here's a newflash for you .... cell phones are analog in nature, there is some level of signal that is required to defeat background noise and establish a signal. If you are in a high coverage area - you will find it almost impossible to block the signal. Use a metal coin, heck - weld the silly gap with gold. The strength of the signal will blast through loud and clear.

But, go for a hike, or drive your car away from the high signal areas, and get a flat tire. Enjoy trying to call for help when you drop the call every time you touch your phone. Not everyone lives and works next to a tower - and sooner or later you will travel to an area with poor coverage. Then you too will discover the joy of dropping calls, or losing service by simply touching the phone.

And when some idiot (hello Stevie) says "You are holding the phone wrong"; you will want to stick your phone in a very unhygenic place. All you have to do is touch the phone - or even lay it in your palm.

As another poster cleverly pointed out.... what an amazing coincidence that the first time that Apple has ever made a case for an iPhone, the case is the only product that makes their iPhone useable.

"...drive your car away from the high signal areas, and get a flat tire. " Aside from your penchant for the put-down, you clearly aren't a believer in "hands-free phone calls". In my state (California), it is illegal to make a call without using a hand-free device. Now, call me crazy, but if you've got a flat and you're having a problem calling and touching the phone and it doesn't occur to you to, like, lay the phone flat and use the speakerphone, then what's to stop you from USING YOUR HANDS-FREE DEVICE to call with?!

You're really stretching on this one. I suspect you're purposefully trying to cast aspersions on Apple. Like Shakespeare said, "The [gentleman] doth protest too much, methinks."

If it looks like a troll and it smells like a troll, it's probably a troll....
post #154 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Possibly! But, then I'd expect to see some "wrongful termination" lawsuits and some heavy blog activity by the terminees! Seems they could get quite a forum for their issues!

Can't say I have ever witnessed such activity. Not the right thing to do especially today if you want to get back in the corporate world.

And if you were to sue for 'wrongful termination' broadcasting by blogging your mouth off is something your lawyer would not advice.
post #155 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

In my state (California), it is illegal to make a call without using a hand-free device.

Sorry. I should have added "while driving".
post #156 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Possibly! But, then I'd expect to see some "wrongful termination" lawsuits

How would that be wrongful termination ? Their work didn't meet Apple standards, so they we terminated. Nothing unlawful. Happens all the time everywhere. Of course this is just speculation. But this is a very possible scenario. Its painfully obvious the pros/cons of this antenna design was not fully tested. They should be fired!
post #157 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Please cite a reference and link supporting your assertion!

.

So Apple is going to hire more people when they already hired people who worked on the new antenna system?

Exactly how many people should work on an antenna? I'm sure it's a coincidencethat it's a tipoff especially when the dates coincide with the public acknowledgment of the antenna problems.

Knowing Jobs I'm sure he's the type to keep people around after they failed at their responsibilities.
post #158 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

"...drive your car away from the high signal areas, and get a flat tire. " Aside from your penchant for the put-down, you clearly aren't a believer in "hands-free phone calls". In my state (California), it is illegal to make a call without using a hand-free device. Now, call me crazy, but if you've got a flat and you're having a problem calling and touching the phone and it doesn't occur to you to, like, lay the phone flat and use the speakerphone, then what's to stop you from USING YOUR HANDS-FREE DEVICE to call with?!

You're really stretching on this one. I suspect you're purposefully trying to cast aspersions on Apple. Like Shakespeare said, "The [gentleman] doth protest too much, methinks."

If it looks like a troll and it smells like a troll, it's probably a troll....

Obviosly common sense isn't one of your strong suits. This may come as a shock to you, but if you have a flat tire, the odds are that (everyone but you) will pull to the side of the road - thus NOT NEED TO USE A HEADSET. Ask Mommy to explain this one to you, as you failed this test miserably.

How about you are hiking in the mountains, and get bit by a Timber Rattler, or fall down and break a leg, or wish to report a fire - the phone doesn't work when you touch it - and you are blind enough to think that this isn't a problem!! What's the point of having a cell phone?

Me, I expect and demand a product to perform as advertized. I expect my cell phone to work as a cell phone - everywhere that there is a signal.

Now, if you want to be a fanboi, that's your right. But be intellectually honest and say "I don't care how poorly designed an Apple product is, as long as it has the Logo - why, it's the best thing out there. I'm a fanboi and will gratify every urge Stevie has". Wear your Fanboi badge with pride, tell the world that they should simply use Bluetooth headsets and tape the iPhone to a stick to hold high over their heads.
post #159 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

So Apple is going to hire more people when they already hired people who worked on the new antenna system?

Exactly how many people should work on an antenna?

How many Apple engineers does it take to design a cell phone antenna?
post #160 of 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

Can't say I have ever witnessed such activity. Not the right thing to do especially today if you want to get back in the corporate world.

And if you were to sue for 'wrongful termination' broadcasting by blogging your mouth off is something your lawyer would not advice.

Don't you think if Apple had recently fired some Antenna Engineers. we'd have heard about it-- especially with all the purported antenna problems? Apple couldn't even keep the iPhone secret-- I suspect all the anti-Apple trolls would jump on any evidence of a firing. We even have some here suggesting that new job openings imply firings...

Let's see some evidence of firings-- linkedin, anyone?

.
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- Michael Lille -
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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