Wireless experts weigh in on iPhone 4 reception issues - Page 5

Please cite a reference and a link supporting your assertion!

Oh, you can't!

Then please provide sufficient information about your background, history, expertise, biases, etc. so we can evaluate how much weight to give your unsubstantiated assertions!

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Evidence of firings ? What evidence are you looking for ? The job openings for antenna designers seems pretty obvious to me. Sorry you can't put two and two together. Yes, this could all be a coincidence. Kinda like the coincidence Apple finally starts making iPhone cases, and this case only covers the antenna. Nobody is saying these are facts. But they are highly possible.

I wouldn't think your phone was built last week and I have a friend with 86026 so digits 4 and 5 can't represent the week, at least not starting with the Gregorian calendar.

There are a lot of variables here. For instance is WiFi and Blutooth turned on. Plus the fact that even after these technical reports people still don't uderstamd that the bar system for reporting signal strength means nothing. People make mountains out of this bars issue when the only thing that matters is making calls or not.

In any event I'm still using my 3G and I gave to say it looks like iOS 4 has introduced a lot of bugs. Some of those apppear to be related to the behaviours of RF networking. So there is a possibility of some problems being fixed with a software update. Things related to attenuation of the signal won't be helped by software though.

What is funny here is that from all reports I've seen people could have the best phone reception going if they add a case or in some way insulate the antennas. So people are really complaining about the best device on the market in many ways.

I don't want to dismiss people that are having problems or think they are. Rather the suggestion is that many are engaged in mass hysteria. When it comes right down to it a cell phone is nothing more than a two way radio, like all two way radios it requires a little intelligence upon the part of the operator. Intelligence is something lacking in a good portion of Apples customer base.






Dave

So your argument is that they need to have first fire someone before they hire someone else? ¿Que? How does any company ever grow at that rate? How about, they are hiring people because they need more people.


OK, so you think Apple knew they had a devastating "design flaw" on their hands, but instead of hiring people months ago to deal with it they waited until a week AFTER it shipped before trying figure it out; but wait, there's more, you also think Apple's great idea to fix this "design flaw" was to not actually fix the problem, but to hope no one notices (because no one ever scrutinizes Apple¡) and to make a case to sell for $29 that will pull a fast one over each and every customer. That is absurd!

And what about all of those car crashes due to texting and talking on the phone?

Maybe because Steve Jobs was pissed, and rightfully so, and fired them on the spot, before they hired replacements. Or even using your logic, maybe they are still working for the company. But only until they get their replacements up to speed.

Pissed at what? That sounds a lot like you are saying the iPhone 4 is flawed by design (despite not affecting all users) and that it was the antenna designers that forced Apple to make the antenna external. Does any of that really seem likely to you?

I can't get to the keynote on Apple.com. Did they remove it?

I was looking for that photo of the antenna pieces that was shown.

Basically my confusion is that as I recall there were only two pieces that served as multiple antennas.

How does the GSM antenna share with the others?

Doesn't the GSM antenna need to be located on the bottom of the device per FCC?

So where does the GSM part stop if the top seam is way up on top of the device?

Uhh, it could have been the idea of these people to design this external antenna. And their responsibility to weigh all the pros/cons of their design and the testing of it. Very likely.

Yeah I was surprised when I saw the last two digits.

The odd thing I have noticed is that the number of bars seem to fluctuate a lot more than previous versions but call quality and download speed hasn't been affected for me. I've only really seen the fluctuation in my office (well cube) where with my previous iphones I would hangout with one bar throughout the day. With the 4 I can see it go from 5 to 3 to 4 to 1 in a matter of a few moments without being touched

The issue is that in order to get this phenomenon while making the call, you have to hold it in a very awkward way. The way most people would hold the phone would not cause a problem - which is why most people (even those who can duplicate the problem) say that the use as a phone is excellent.


How many people hold the cell phone in a way that causes a problem?

We have a lot of people who can manage to duplicate the problem if they go out of their way to do something, but how many of them would see a problem in normal usage?

Don't know, but you can DL them for free as video podcasts.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/a...es/id275834665


BTW, good questions.

When get you are old enough to think rationally and analyze data for yourself, instead of blindly accepting everything Jobz says and sells without scrutiny, you will understand how those of us feel. Apparently you and the other lemmings don't mind being lied to and insulted by a guy that wants your money and considers you a dope.

Do you believe that Apple has no new wireless products under development? Again, go to the site below and search the archives for recent patent activity-- it involves a lot of non-phone-call wireless activity:

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/tech-nfc/

Apple is always balancing their work force to address the current needs and those anticipated for near-term new products


If apple is savvy they:

1) would have fired the non-performing engineers months ago when they first detected the problem (when they decided to sell a bumper case)

or, more realistically:

2) Would be using the Engineers who are most familiar with the iPhone 4 antenna (the Engineers that created the purported problem) to solve the problem-- thus they would have to hire additional Engineers to work on antennas for devices in the pipeline: iPod Touch; Universal Remote?; enhanced AppleTV;


It is pretty obvious to me that you have no business experience, personnel skills, and never had an employee-- other than an occasional baby-sitter or gardener (boy to mow the lawn).

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I think you have the wrong person. I never implied anything like that. But I do agree with your comments about the trolls.

I might suggest though that this may even be a new position, dedicated specifically to help resolve the purported issue at hand.

I just checked at Apple.com and had no problem viewing the keynote.

Mine is 88026. No issues to report. Any antenna signal attenuation is minimal as I haven't noticed any problems.

I think your posts have moved into the realm of wanting to read the most negative possible meaning into any possibly related event.

I forgot I had javascript off since that is the only way to get on AI sometimes with the ad scripts not completing.

Don't you think it is rather childish to deliberately misspell "Jobs" name?

Why are you here?

Maybe your stats will enlighten us:

Glockman:

Join Date
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Apple has tons of jobs posted in all R&D areas pretty much all of the time. This really doesn't mean much at all. At the worst, one might read into it that they are continuing to advance their products and so need additional staff to work in those areas.

I suppose it might be titillating to imagine Jobs busting down the door, foaming at the mouth and firing every rf engineer in the building. Titillating but not really supported (for now).

What are you talking about ? I never claimed they are hiring these people to fix the iPhone 4 issue. And I never said Apple is trying to profit off their flaw ? LOL. Geez !!! Why are you making all this stuff up ? My personal opinion is that this antenna issue wasn't noticed into far too late in the designing/production process. Thus they came up with this faster, cheaper solution of covers to fix the issue, instead of redesigning and delaying the iPhone 4. They took a chance this issue would not get the attention it is now receiving. Very likely to me.

Whoa! So now we're supposed to make sure phones work in the most unlikely of circumstances?

You are clearly an Apple hater and henceforth not worth the bother of replying to. Go grind your axe somewhere else.

I second that.

Doubt it. Jobs would never have made such a big deal about the antenna in the keynote. If he was worried about the scrutiny, he would not have brought it up at all. Even at a late stage of the production ramp up they could have applied a coating very easily.

You wrote "Maybe because Steve Jobs was pissed, and rightfully so, and fired them on the spot, before they hired replacements." and "The job openings for antenna designers seems pretty obvious to me. Sorry you can't put two and two together." and "Kinda like the coincidence Apple finally starts making iPhone cases, and this case only covers the antenna." You are implying that the hirings are done because of the iPhone 4 reception issue and that the Bumpers were created to mask the issue whilst making a profit from it.

Correct, looking at just the job postings does not mean much. But taken in the context of everything else, it is a very possible scenario. I'm not saying it's the only possibility. Just a likely possibility taken in the context of everything.

Correct. And it's a possibility. Not a fact, but a very real possibility.

That's not true at all. When I make calls as I have always done since the launch of the 3G I naturally hold the phone in a way that that causes this issue. a) Because your hands up to your ear and therefore you can't see where your hand is, b) because I'm only ever using one hand as opposed to two I have less leeway how I hold it and c) because it's less parrallel to the ground I have more chance of the phone slipping out of my hand because it's not wresting on my thumb muscle and palm. Therefore making calls is the least comfortable and most tedious part of this issue, and it's often more important not to lose a call than it is to briefly have a web page not load.

Maybe what your saying has some truth for some people but I would be happy to bet it's a very small percentage.

Quote:
Originally posted by maciekskontakt
3dB is half of power. It is not small. That's why we, engineers, have logarithmic expression of power just to compress large drop/increase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber
I am sure Mr. Gaywood stands humbly in the shadow of your erudition.


I agree with you that one shouldn't do that. But I wasn't. I think you missed my point, a point that in my effort to be wry might have gotten lost.

I didn't debate the fact because it is true. My point was that he was pointing out something clearly self-evident to a guy who clearly has the credentials to know it. At the risk of an overblown metaphor, it struck me as though I were telling Einstein, that "we mathematicians have a thing called fractions." It just seemed silly and a little insulting to make such a comment to Mr. Gaywood in that manner.

Sorry! But, I quoted your post for a reason-- not that you suggested firings, but you suggested that "fired" employees wouldn't sue or blog!


You are, likely, correct that fired employees wouldn't sue or blog in a very competitive job market!

However, these are relatively specialized "expert" jobs in a small tightly-knit, networked, technical community with several back-channels! Any former Apple Engineers coming available would surely be noticed... Like the Palm employees leaving HP.

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We don't know if a coating will solve the issue. Nor do we know about the durability of a coating. If a coating will truly solve the issue, and be durable, Apple should be doing this right now !!! Why aren't they doing it now then ?

Wow. I am not sure what side you are on. But the way you sound,

I would argue with you vehemently that no one at Apple was aware of any antenna issues other than what was known about the state of the art at that time. Or that the bumpers were designed to address that issue.

Perhaps one should become a little more familiar with the FCC filing regulations. Such knowledge at the time of submission would require that Apple falsify the findings submitted by Federal Government approved laboratories; which would be a criminal offense.

It is unbelievable some of the comments inferring that Apple knew about the issue before they were brought to market, are purposely attempting to hide to problem or placing the blame on the consumer. There are laws against that to, especially as governed by a Federal agency.

If Apple can't resolve the problem by a software fix, mechanically modifying or replacing the antenna, they will recall and replace the product, or refund it accordingly.

Thank heavens that has been their policy for years, and one that has relegated Apple to such high levels of consumer confidence for their products, as well as their service and support.

Their is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

Since you don't have any actual, you know, evidence to support it, calling it a, "very real possibility," is pretty much the same as me claiming that the iPad release caused the Gulf oil spill. After all, they happened about the same time and there were job postings for Apple engineers and oil workers seen, too much of a coincidence to ignore!

Sorry, but for it to be considered a, "very real possibility," you need to have more supporting evidence than what feeds conspiracy theorists. As for it being a possibility, well, yeah, pretty much anything is a possibility.

What you have here is what's known as a wild conjecture.

I'll find out for myself.

I've just put myself on Tesco's waiting list for the iPhone 4. (...in partnership with 02.)

£20 a month.

1 year contract. (My first, currently a PAYGO...)

Unlimited texts.

Plenty of call time.

Unlimited wireless.


That will do me.

Random thought: I'll be getting a copy of 'Crazy Birds.'

I guess I'd want a 'protective' case for a £500 investment that can easily get scratched in a pocket. A work colleague has hers in a leather pouch. (She has a 3GS...) Though whether I'll pay Apple's 'deluded' price for a 'bumper' depends on whether I get hit by red kryptonite or not. (Greedy Apple again. See the UK rip off price of the entry Mini Mac for details...yeesh. *Smells greed again...)


I'm excited. My first new phone in 5 years. I've been waiting for 'this' iPhone since 2007.

This.

Is.

The.

One.

Lemon Bon Bon.

I'm no.60 on the list. Come on, Apple.

Send more iPhones to Tescos...what's taking you so long.

I could have had an iPhone today. Orange offered my an iPhone right now. But theirs is a two year contract at £25 a month. With less texts. Less phone time.

I said unless they could match Tesco's offer...no can do. And I've been an Orange customer for 5 years.

Lemon Bon Bon.

Yes but the test pretty much prove Apples point, all cell phones are impacted by being held in the hand. I will go even further and say how that hand is positioned relative to the actual antenna will impact results on all cell phones. There is nothing out of the ordinary here.

Hysteria is the right word here The problem is we have masses of people concerned that they should return their iPhones when they have no problems whatsoever to report. If that isn't part of the definition of Hysteria it ought to be.

It is one thing to express a problem or concern you are actually experiencing. It is another thing to jump on the raft to hysteriaville when you aren't subject to the problems discussed. Frankly I see a bunch of idiots getting worked up over nothing in this thread. If the iPhone works for you get off the raft, the cold water might help you see with a little more clarity as you swim ashore.

That is for you to decide. On the otherhand it should be pretty clear by now that iPhone 4 has one of the best antennas going right now on a cell phone. With the adoption of some sort of insulator it looks like this device would be ideal for people in fringe areas.

Neutral is not really possible for me. This mainly due to the amount of ignorance seen in these threads. The only thing that really counts is making calls. All the reports indicate that iPhone can do this from place few other phones can.

Don't take this as dismissing the issue of antenuation of the signal. It is a real problem on all handheld RF devices. The problem is all the people looking at the bars displayed with different grips on the phone and declaring the problem as uniquely iPhone 4s.

Further what people may be seeing here is possibly new behaviour with respect to software. Frankly iOS 4 has issues on my 3G with respect to cell data. So yeah it is possible there are glitches to fix (there always will be) but they can't address hardware issues. In the end it is really just an educational tasks that affected users need to engage in.



Dave

...and here's the expert testimony needed for that lawsuit.

I'd suggest that Apple start "appeasing" those that complain with free bumpers now and foregoing the revenue before that lawsuit takes off and they are forced to give up free bumpers and compensate those that had to pay contract termination fees and now want out of their current AT&T/iPhone contract.

I mentioned this in another thread,

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...&postcount=204 but I think it's worth mentioning it again here.

Some of the "dropped call" issues might have nothing to do with the antenna, but could perhaps be related to the known issues with the proximity sensor. Just a conjecture, though.