or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Microsoft kills KIN, ending Danger team's Pink Project
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Microsoft kills KIN, ending Danger team's Pink Project

post #1 of 119
Thread Starter 
After just 48 days on the market, Microsoft has terminated its KIN phones aimed at the youth market due to a lack of interest from consumers.

KIN was the end result of Microsoft's acquisition of Danger, a Java-based smartphone platform that pioneered messaging-oriented phones targeted at younger people.

After buying Danger, Microsoft insisted on shifting the product a Windows CE kernel rather than Danger's already functional Java-based system. While working on the shift, Microsoft allowed its existing subscribers' data to exist without proper backups, resulting in an inevitable, massive cloud services data loss when its servers failed.

In order to make the new Pink devices profitable, Microsoft skimped on local storage and forced users to store all their data on the cloud (even photos taken with its camera). To keep service cheap, Microsoft limited email message updates to once every 15 minutes.

It then launched the once cheap, youth-oriented platform (previously running on T-Mobile with cut rate plans aimed at that demographic) on the Verizon Wireless network, which tried to charge users $70 per month for voice and data service, despite the device lacking any support for basic smartphone services such as calendar sync, instant messages, or even any email accounts other than Microsoft's own.

Microsoft then tried to sell users another $15 per month a Zune Pass music subscription, hoping to salvage its Zune business by tying it to smartphones. Unsurprisingly, after two years of development, KIN was pulled off the market in just 48 days after only selling a reported 500 units.

The next of KIN

The company wrote in an official statement, "We have made the decision to focus on our Windows Phone 7 launch and we will not ship KIN in Europe this fall as planned. Additionally, we are integrating our KIN team with the Windows Phone 7 team, incorporating valuable ideas and technologies from KIN into future Windows Phone releases. We will continue to work with Verizon in the U.S. to sell current KIN phones"

Much of the Danger/Pink team that worked on KIN has already left Microsoft following a rash of bad publicity about its cloud failure and several high profile leaks that seemed designed to derail the flawed project out of spite and unbridled frustration with the project's management.

The move to kill KIN follows Microsoft's announcement earlier this year that it would not be releasing its Courier concept as a real product.
post #2 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The company wrote in an official statement, "We have made the decision to focus on our Windows Phone 7 launch and we will not ship KIN in Europe this fall as planned. Additionally, we are integrating our KIN team with the Windows Phone 7 team, incorporating valuable ideas and technologies from KIN into future Windows Phone releases. We will continue to work with Verizon in the U.S. to sell current KIN phones"

Typical Microsoft fashion. Take (buy) a potentially good company and run it into the ground. I think Microsoft spends more time and money coming up with a spin of marketing speak to make it sound like they were not in fact bumbling idiots running around with their head cut off.

If M$ keeps this up, they will be the ones that will truly be doomed...
post #3 of 119
I guess it is good that they cut their losses, but what a fiasco. Brutal.
post #4 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Typical Microsoft fashion. Take (buy) a potentially good company and run it into the ground. I think Microsoft spends more time and money coming up with a spin of marketing speak to make it sound like they were not in fact bumbling idiots running around with their head cut off.

If M$ keeps this up, they will be the ones that will truly be doomed...

they'll probably stop selling windows mobile 7 (refuse to call it what M$ named it) phones shortly after they launch too.
post #5 of 119
Didnt knew Microsoft will fall to this level of mediocrity.
LotOfWallpapers.com | Only the best wallpapers.
Reply
LotOfWallpapers.com | Only the best wallpapers.
Reply
post #6 of 119
Is Steve Ballmer really any good as a CEO? Look, if it weren't for the licensing of Windows Ballmer would be in the garbage. He stinks as a CEO.
This is what you get when you have a bunch of middle aged, out of touch, impacted colon, corner office schmucks in charge of making gadgets for the Justin Beiber generation.
The only thing Ballmer is worth is that 150 million license of Windows 7.
post #7 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

Is Steve Ballmer really any good as a CEO? Look, if it weren't for the licensing of Windows Ballmer would be in the garbage. He stinks as a CEO.
This is what you get when you have a bunch of middle aged, out of touch, impacted colon, corner office schmucks in charge of making gadgets for the Justin Beiber generation.
The only thing Ballmer is worth is that 150 million license of Windows 7.

Now was that really necessary?

As for Ballmore, I wonder how the MS Retail 'Enterprise' is working out for him
May the Blue Bird of Happiness leave a deposit with you and yours.
Reply
May the Blue Bird of Happiness leave a deposit with you and yours.
Reply
post #8 of 119
Oh my Gosh, now they are killing their own kin...
Things have really gone bad since Bill left.
post #9 of 119
Quote:
While working on the shift, Microsoft allowed its existing subscribers' data to exist without proper backups, resulting in an inevitable, massive cloud services data loss when its servers failed.

Wasn't all of the data recovered eventually?
post #10 of 119
I saw the Kin as an inexpensive precursor of the Winblows Phone 7 devices.

The fact that the Kin did not sell well tells me that Microsoft should change the user interface because if the face book social crowd did not buy the Kin, they will also not buy the Winblows phone 7 devices.

I agree that Steve sucks as a CEO, although I think he would make a good COO.
Ray Ozie also sucks as a visionary. He appears to be a one product man, (Azure) while Microsoft needs to think of many new innovative ways for MS to make money and that's not happening.

Bill Gates needs to come back to MS as CEO for a few years.
Perhaps he can forge some partnerships with Apple to help it succeed better in the cloud.
Perhaps MS can reorganize itself itself like a big startup "a la Apple Inc" to get ideas flowing at Microsoft again.

The board really needs shake up this company before it starts to falls apart.

Time will tell.
post #11 of 119
_____________________________________
Church of the Flying Spagetti Monster
Reply
_____________________________________
Church of the Flying Spagetti Monster
Reply
post #12 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chintan100 View Post

Didnt knew Microsoft will fall to this level of mediocrity.

Calling this "mediocrity" is far too generous. This is the type of incompetence and arrogance for which the term "epic fail" was invented (even clichéd as it is.)
post #13 of 119
MS makes money despite Steve Balmer and he is a cofounder, both of which makes it difficult to unseat him as CEO.

Any decent company (actually the Board) would recognize the failures in SB's type leadership and act accordingly. Without changing course, MS will do very poorly.

At some point in the not so distant future, MSFT will probably be a good investment; as a short sale.
post #14 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Wasn't all of the data recovered eventually?

That's not the point. Yes it was but it should never have happened in the first place.

I'm not convinced Microsoft ever recovered from that debacle to be honest.
post #15 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

...KIN was pulled off the market in just 48 days after only selling a reported 500 units.

500 phones?! Thats unbelievably bad. I'd love to verify that number. One of the girls in the Kin tv ads was really cute. But 500 phones total, over 48 days?? You would think they'd be able to pull off better numbers just based on grandparents buying random junk for their grand kids they don't really want. "i want and iphone and got a kin " type stuff. 500?!?!
post #16 of 119
a well functioning
msft wold be a good thing

one day soon some 14 yr pimple faced whiz kid will write some ground breaking code and cripple msft .

9
whats in a name ? 
beatles
Reply
whats in a name ? 
beatles
Reply
post #17 of 119
500 phones - is that for real?

because that is about 10 phones a day.

whist apple launches a new phone with 1.7 million sales in 3 days.

my, how the world has changed.

D.
post #18 of 119
post #19 of 119
I remember right back to the early days of PC computing with my Apple ][ and ][e - getting a piece of software from Microsoft for them always felt like I was getting something really cool, something really premium.

This is such a distant memory, that I am surprised I even remember the feeling.

When they get it right, which is becoming less and less often, they still so some really good stuff. Windows 7 resides quite happily on various Mac partitions. It is stable and slick, it interface looks unified - the endless patching, though, continues to let it down.

I even went out today, and was even - dare I say it - excited about getting the revised Xbox 360 Slim - if only it was built like this from the start. Apart from the legacy power brick, everything about it is very coherent, from the design to the user interface and overall features of the whole 360 franchise.

The Kin phone should have gone the way of the Courier tablet. Microsoft is just copping such a pounding in the image stakes it's not funny - well it is, kinda

The Windows Phone 7, or whatever it's called, looks like it is going to flop too. I know they are trying to leverage the 360 on it, but they really should have been making a 360 centric entertainment phone - that would have got a lot of people (iPhone users) interested in it. As it is, Windows Phone 7 looks like it is trying to be a bit of everything to everybody, without really hitting the sweet spot for anybody.


Like Sony, Microsoft should be leveraging their gaming franchise in the mobile world and tying them very closely together. As a hardware company, which also makes phones, how is it that we are still waiting for a PSP phone after all these years?
post #20 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by rulebreaker View Post

whist apple launches a new phone with 1.7 million sales in 3 days.
my, how the world has changed.

150+ million Windows 7 licenses, god knows how many copies of Office and revenue and profits way ahead of Apple.

Things are certainly changing perhaps, but with Microsoft rolling in money with Windows + Office sales and not really making a killing in any other markets one could make an argument that things haven't changed that much yet.
post #21 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maciavelli View Post

Like Sony, Microsoft should be leveraging their gaming franchise in the mobile world and tying them very closely together. As a hardware company, which also makes phones, how is it that we are still waiting for a PSP phone after all these years?

Sony are getting pretty tight with Google. I'd bet my house that they are looking at bringing Playstation/PSN branded gaming to an Android-based phone.

I'm not sure they would go so far as to build it into Android though. It might stay a Sony-only add on.

In any case, Sony are one of the highest quality publishers around so it's going to make some kind of an impact.
post #22 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post


Bring back Gates!!!
post #23 of 119
This should serve as a warning to Apples board- What to do when Steve is gone?

In fairness to MS, Win 7 seems pretty good.
But gosh that Office 'ribbon' menu interface drives me nuts.
Anyone know how the well the new 'web' office works, especially on the iPad?
Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster by your side, kid.
Reply
Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster by your side, kid.
Reply
post #24 of 119
I'm surprised they didn't sell more through the Microsoft Retail Stores.

Speaking of which, how is Microsoft Retail doing these days?
post #25 of 119
As Kin gets sent to the land of the MiSFiT toys.
post #26 of 119
Wow. Did not expect this, but I'm not surprised. I think their main problem was that all the ad showed the cheap, stubby KIN with the tiny screen. People didn't realize that there was a bigger, more useful version.

"Almost everything you do is uploaded..." How does this appeal to anyone? The ad makes it sound like all your personal information is just uploaded to the internet for fun.

I'm glad there will be no more stupid ads for shows from ?uestlove. Who the f&%k is ?uestlove? The guy doesn't even have a web site, just a Myspace and Twitter account! Notice how Apple gets real artists for their ads, and that just about every song from an iPod commercial was reasonably popular, especially after the ad played.

I hate U2, but come on, at least Apple got somebody that people have heard of.

I mean when that ad was on, I was just like "no, I don't want to use this stupid stubby phone because I would rather not see an impromptu show by ?uestlove because there will be so many stupid hipsters with their stupid phones there."
post #27 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

150+ million Windows 7 licenses, god knows how many copies of Office and revenue and profits way ahead of Apple.

Things are certainly changing perhaps, but with Microsoft rolling in money with Windows + Office sales and not really making a killing in any other markets one could make an argument that things haven't changed that much yet.

What has changed is the image of Microsoft as a company. Microsoft used to bridge the gap as a consumer friendly, yet business savvy company. Now, MS is only pretty much thought of as a enterprise company. Windows 7 is great on desktops and servers, but is no match for OS X on a laptop. From the trackpad to expose to window resizing to spaces, os x simply offers a better experience on a portable device.

Comparing the very refined ios to the unreleased, still in it's infancy, windows 7 mobile isn't even possible.

No matter how much money MS makes on enterprise software, and no matter how good that enterprise software is, MS' future is dim as they don't appeal to consumers anymore. Business update there OSonce a decade, consers do it every other year.

Plus eventually, our kids will be running businesses, and unlike us who remember ms from the glory years, they won't, but they'll sure as hell know and trust google. Hmm, I wonder who is netter setup for enterprise in the cloud? The company that is synonymous with the Internet, orvthe one that everyone remembers losing cloud data?


It's not over for MS, not by a long shot. But other than the 360, MS isn't prepared for future growth.
32G iPhone 4, 32G iPad 2, late 2009 15" mbp
Reply
32G iPhone 4, 32G iPad 2, late 2009 15" mbp
Reply
post #28 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

As Kin gets sent to the land of the MiSFiT toys.

Shouldn't that be MSFT toys ?
iMac, MacBook Air, Mac mini
Reply
iMac, MacBook Air, Mac mini
Reply
post #29 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post


Hey, "Night at the Redmondbury!"
post #30 of 119
What is amazing is that the product was released at all.

Companies don't just put products out there and see what happens, they should know with some confidence how many units are going to sell.

What on Earth happened here?

C.
post #31 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Typical Microsoft fashion. Take (buy) a potentially good company and run it into the ground. I think Microsoft spends more time and money coming up with a spin of marketing speak to make it sound like they were not in fact bumbling idiots running around with their head cut off.

If M$ keeps this up, they will be the ones that will truly be doomed...

They aren't a good PR company either. They didn't do much marketing until Vista came around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by applestockholder View Post

MS makes money despite Steve Balmer and he is a cofounder, both of which makes it difficult to unseat him as CEO.

Any decent company (actually the Board) would recognize the failures in SB's type leadership and act accordingly. Without changing course, MS will do very poorly.

At some point in the not so distant future, MSFT will probably be a good investment; as a short sale.

Balmer wasn't a cofounder, though he seems to be a close buddy of Gates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddyguido View Post

No matter how much money MS makes on enterprise software, and no matter how good that enterprise software is, MS' future is dim as they don't appeal to consumers anymore. Business update there OSonce a decade, consers do it every other year.

Some consumers upgrade their computers every other year (some even every year), but last I saw the average, it was roughly every four years. However, your point may still be valid. When you own the market, it instills a certain level of complacency, and don't have much room for growth unless you branch out, and Microsoft's efforts at branching out has been a lot more misses than hits. XBox 360 seems to be the one thing outside of the Windows/Office standby that has legs on it.
post #32 of 119
The Kin 1 was kind of cute, with the right marketing and pricing it could of done quite well.

Ah well, at least Windows Phone is apparently the real deal.
post #33 of 119
These clamshell designs look too feminine.....even for the women.
post #34 of 119
Interesting that Verizon is cited as contributing to the demise of the Kins with their data and voice service prices. Either Microsoft is a lousy negotiator these days, or Verizon might not be the savior from AT&T everyone seems to think...
post #35 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

What is amazing is that the product was released at all.

Companies don't just put products out there and see what happens, they should know with some confidence how many units are going to sell.

What on Earth happened here?

C.

Probably a good concept with a terrible execution. Microsoft does that more times than not. but it still gets the occasional thing right.

It's not about generating ideas. It's about recognising the great ones. I'm sure most here will understand that concept.

Nevertheless, it's the proverbial sleeping giant and we underestimate it at our peril.

Or not.

That all sounded too serious, eh, so I'm going to have a glass of sav and chill.

Cheers.
post #36 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

As Kin gets sent to the land of the MiSFiT toys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prw View Post

Shouldn't that be MSFT toys ?


Seriously?
"Who are you going to believe, me or your eyes?"
Reply
"Who are you going to believe, me or your eyes?"
Reply
post #37 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by l008com View Post

500 phones?! Thats unbelievably bad. I'd love to verify that number. One of the girls in the Kin tv ads was really cute. But 500 phones total, over 48 days?? You would think they'd be able to pull off better numbers just based on grandparents buying random junk for their grand kids they don't really want. "i want and iphone and got a kin " type stuff. 500?!?!

Agreed -- it would be great to see some verification on that number because if true, it would be extraordinarily bad. People still make fun of Apple over the Cube, but I bet Apple sold more than 500 of them! And I also agree that this is clear evidence that Balmer should be fired.

By the way, I love the totally non sequitur comment about the cute girl in the ad...
post #38 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

What on Earth happened here?

This is what happened.

Any other new mobile product would have to stand on its own legs in the eyes of the investors, but Microsoft is the epitome of 'more money than they know what to do with'. Literally.

I hope at some point the rest of the world recognizes this and backs MS into their Windows/Office corner. You don't see IBM producing phones, or Oracle, or any other number of software giants (Google excepted, but their long-term future isn't assured, despite Android's immediate appeal to pent-up nerd demand). But for some reason Microsoft thinks they can be a jack of all trades, and their 'Windows Everywhere' mantra is the only prism they can see out of.

(People always bring up the Xbox as some sort of counter-example. One could argue that any product can ultimately be rationalized as 'successful' if you are willing to throw enough money at it. See above.)
post #39 of 119
Things like this make me really appreciate Steve Jobs' genius.

Huge, rich companies often fail trying to glom on to some passing fad by snatching up some little company and trying to bolt it onto their giant corporation. M$ fails at this time and again, and Google is beginning to follow in their footsteps.

Steve's guidance of Apple is much more reasoned and logical, so the acquisitions make sense now (PA Semi), or often they pay off in the long run (what's up with Lala?)
post #40 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

When you own the market, it instills a certain level of complacency, and don't have much room for growth unless you branch out, and Microsoft's efforts at branching out has been a lot more misses than hits. XBox 360 seems to be the one thing outside of the Windows/Office standby that has legs on it.

I think you underestimate the Windows 7 groundswell. In many ways it matches and even in some areas exceeds OS X in its appeal. The last part doesn't apply to the committed Mac user naturally, but that segment is tiny compared to the great 'unwashed'.

Windows 7 is most definitely their best performing OS and it's early days yet. 150 million copies since the October launch is pretty spectacular. And much of that is consumer level uptake. If anything, the corporate IT world has been cautious given Vista's lackluster approval rate.

Assuming (admittedly an assumption) that the consumer sector continues at this pace for a while and that the enterprise increases it uptake (highly likely), their growth doesn't seem that unrealistic.

Probably where the greatest growth will come though, will be their entry into the third world arena where subsets of their OS will be provided at peppercorn prices to power super-cheap PCs for those who have no chance of aspiring to an Apple class computer. That's an enormous untapped market and Intel is already looking there.

Microsoft may be bloodied, but I don't think you can count them out yet.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Microsoft kills KIN, ending Danger team's Pink Project