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Apple sued over iPhone 4 reception issues - Page 4

post #121 of 413
7/1/10 at 7:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post

Numerous users are reporting vastly diminshed battery time on both the 3GS and the 4 with iOS 4.

The battery meter on my 3GS with iOS4 installed seems a bit erratic. Some days it seems like I'm getting incredible battery life, and other days, with equal usage, it seems like it's eating through it. It might just be that the power management code is a little wonky in reporting this. I've also had periods before iOS4 where this happened, as well.
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post #122 of 413
7/1/10 at 7:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by waveghel View Post

This is not to understand for Europeans, really you Americans are real mad, you funny silly crazy people, is money all there is in your heads...? Just get a bumper for the iPhone or, indeed, hold it in another way!
Geez, Americans and their lawsuits!

Sorry if someone else has responded to this hater already, but...

Ok, first of all, I have stated that if the evidence is out there, then a lawsuit may be in order. I have also come out to say that I don't think a money settlement should NOT be the way. I agree that Apple should publicly state they are aware of this issue and provide some marketing to explain the defects that are inherent to this new product. But i also think that a recall may be a very good way to tell Apple to quit hiding.

I find it very ignorant and petty of you to be making such accusations against ALL Americans, for there are some out there that do think it's a crime to award money settlement for spilling hot coffee in thier lap and blaming McDonalds for it.
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post #123 of 413
7/1/10 at 7:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyb0731 View Post

I agree completely with this. I've been most impressed with the battery life on this phone compared to apple's previous releases



How would anybody know how the 4 works without iOS4 installed since it's the only operating system that it's known

Again, I am reporting what the users are saying. People are reporting 20% battery loss per hour or two on 4. I merely mentioned iOS4 to add in that people are seeing the problem on updated 3GS's. Thus, this may be a software issue.

These are the three big threads and complaints on the Apple forum's.
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post #124 of 413
7/1/10 at 7:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

Hey, everyone who bought an iPhone 4, you still have 24 days to return it for a FULL REFUND! There is no need to sue Apple. Just get your money back and get a life.

Rational comments have no place on these forums.
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post #125 of 413
7/1/10 at 7:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post

Apple won't achnowledge that the merchendise is defective. Hence the lawsuit to force them to acknowledge this and deal with it. All of this is Apple's fault, with it's arrogance and belief that it does not have to address the complaints of their consumers. Normally, I'd say fine let the market screw the company as people stop buying their products. Here, aside from the huge cost of the item, people may be stuck with, is the two year contract people will also be stuck with preventing them from getting a new phone for two years without paying hundreds of dollars.

It's too early to say, "Apple won't achnowledge that the merchendise is defective." But, if you are affected by the seam problems, then you should probably return your phone within the return window, unless Apple makes a satisfactory announcement related to the issue prior to that. I'm pretty sure that you are not stuck with the contract if you return the phone.
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post #126 of 413
7/1/10 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post

I take it that the 10% restocking fee is the issue? Otherwise, I see no case. There's nothing preventing any company from releasing a flawed product - not saying it truly is flawed - as long as the product doesn't physically harm anyone or financially set anyone back as a result of the flaw.

No restocking fee at Apple stores or Best buy. Funny how the Apple-bashers manage to come up with so many incorrect 'facts' and so few real facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

Although I've seen this response many times on the forums, it doesn't resolve the principle arguement that the device has a "known" defect inherent to it and should be addressed by Apple.

1. What known defect? Apple has admitted that there's a cosmetic issue of dropping bars and says they're working on it. As for the dropped calls, there is still NO EVIDENCE that this is any kind of widespread problem. If it turns out to be a widespread problem, Apple will undoubtedly address it - as they have other problems in their past.

2. Should be addressed by Apple? How do you know they aren't addressing it? The most rational thing to do is to first understand the 'problem' before attempting to fix it. Research involves a lot of dead ends and data collection. If Apple did that in public, the whiners would be all over them every time a particular thread leads nowhere. Let them identify whether the problem is real and THEN fix it rather than expect them to 'fix' a problem which no one even knows is real.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyb0731 View Post

Battery issue?

What battery issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post

Numerous users are reporting vastly diminshed battery time on both the 3GS and the 4 with iOS 4.

This is exactly the kind of crap that I'm arguing against. Every single published report praises the iPhone 4 for battery life - and says it's a huge improvement over the iPhone 3GS - and also better than the major competition. But one person starts whining about a problem and next thing you know, there will be 50,000 posts from people who don't own one and 1,000 bloggers writing about Apple's defective battery. Stick to the facts, people. Facts.
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post #127 of 413
7/1/10 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

Ah, I see. You definitely can't get it back. For me, I haven't really had any problems from my phone now on day 2. The thing is, I though about returning my phone and waiting for all this to blow over, but I've quickly become spoiled by the iPhone 4. The thing that bugs me is that my favorite case and screen protector maker doesn't have any product yet and won't for another 2-4 weeks. So my phone goes unprotected from drops and scratches until then I guess.

Yeah if I asked for my phone back it would not be very pretty....my wife and step daughter would not be happy with me! :-)
From a persoanl preference. I have never used a case on my iPhones. I have ahd the 3G and 3GS and now the 4G. I don't like phone cases. i just put the phone in my pocket. I have never had a scratching or damage to my phones at all. BUT I have seen some very nice cases! :-)

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post #128 of 413
7/1/10 at 7:54am
Is it possible that those with battery problems on iOS4 have open programs running in the background and don't know it?
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post #129 of 413
7/1/10 at 7:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post

Again, I am reporting what the users are saying. People are reporting 20% battery loss per hour or two on 4. I merely mentioned iOS4 to add in that people are seeing the problem on updated 3GS's. Thus, this may be a software issue.

These are the three big threads and complaints on the Apple forum's.


And after looking through a handful of pages on apple's support forum I see no thread relating to the battery life on the iphone 4
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post #130 of 413
7/1/10 at 7:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle76 View Post

Is it possible that those with battery problems on iOS4 have open programs running in the background and don't know it?

Unlikely. The only programs that would be consuming significant resources "in the background" are things like Pandora, which the user would likely be aware of. Inactive programs are just that, inactive.
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post #131 of 413
7/1/10 at 7:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Its not that easy...If I return my phone. What will I use then? i will have to buy another phone now......
I just renewed my contract for another 2 years with AT&T to get this phone......no I am stuck....

No, you are not stuck. You have 30 days to cancel the contract.
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post #132 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

You are correct...I could just use a case on the phone. But that is not how the phone was advertised. That is not how it was demonstrated in Steve Jobs keynote presentation. That is not how he used the phone. It was not advertised that you will have to spend another $30 for a case to get full functionality of the phone. They should not blame the consumer of their products for hold the phone wrong.

I agree 100% when it comes to phones which are losing all service when the skin bridges the antenna. But for practical purposes I'm still buying one with a case or bumper the first opportunity I get. I'm happy with my 3GS. When I get a 4G, I may cover up the antenna when I hold it in my left hand and the bars may drop, but if the phone is still getting better reception than my 3GS I won't care.
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post #133 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

You are right... I might just have to do that.....I m ight even just opt out entirely...not sure at this moment..... Apple has really handled this whole issue poorly. At this point I don't know if I want another iPhone.....

Don't get me wrong, I really wanted an iPhone 4, and even contemplated braving the lines. But I decided to wait out the chaos and any potential activation server hiccups. Of course I never expected the screen, antenna, and proximity sensor issues. So I am glad I waited.

And, I still have my 3Gs that has been and still is rock solid. I may end up with an iPhone 4 after these issues are sorted out, or maybe I will wait for the iPhone 5 with the all new patented internal antenna , but until I decide to upgrade my 3Gs, it will perform like a champ.
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post #134 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyb0731 View Post

And after looking through a handful of pages on apple's support forum I see no thread relating to the battery life on the iphone 4

http://discussions.apple.com/thread....83524&tstart=0

http://discussions.apple.com/thread....103&tstart=360
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post #135 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post

No, the ruling would be a recall, replacement or refund required.

Those may be options but the ruling would be whatever the ruling is.
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post #136 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by veblen View Post

If I'm reading these articles correctly the 4G gets better reception than a 3GS if you buy a case for it. I think that's the route I'd go. It does stink that in some cases folks are having to put the 4G in a case for it to work well for them. It's an inelegant solution. That being said, I've never had an iphone that I didn't have in a case just to protect it from when I inevitably drop it.

Given all the videos I have watched of the iPhone 4 having it's glass shattered, I would probably grudgingly decide to get a case as well, but I think this should be solely to protect from breakage, not to make it possible to make and maintain calls.
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post #137 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

It's too early to say, "Apple won't achnowledge that the merchendise is defective." But, if you are affected by the seam problems, then you should probably return your phone within the return window, unless Apple makes a satisfactory announcement related to the issue prior to that. I'm pretty sure that you are not stuck with the contract if you return the phone.

Every indication they're giving us is that they consider the users to be the problem. They set the tone of these issues, not me. Two minutes from Job's acknowleding issues and a full fledge effort to solve them would have saved Apple incalculable bad feelings and circumvented the anger and rage from their customers who feel duped and left out in the cold.
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post #138 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Considering how awkward it is to hold the phone cupped in your left hand while making a call, that's not a huge sacrifice.

How the hell is it awkward to hold the phone in your left hand rather than in your right hand?
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post #139 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by waveghel View Post

This is not to understand for Europeans, really you Americans are real mad, you funny silly crazy people, is money all there is in your heads...? Just get a bumper for the iPhone or, indeed, hold it in another way!
Geez, Americans and their lawsuits!

Hey hey hey!! DON"T generalize, USA customer are one thing but thats not reason for you to say the whole continent of America is greedy or dumb. Please refer to them as USA customer or something else. I live in Panama and I am an American as well. The other hundreds of millions of habitants that share the continent deserve respect and differentiation.
I share 100% your opinion that they only see an opportunity to hit the cash cow, also there is hundreds of cases, bumpers, jackets, etc that can be used with the iPhone 4.
At the end this lawsuit is silly cause they have to prove with facts and scientifically that the device is defective and that is not cheap/easy to do. They will need to hire research firms, universities, etc.
Also involve AT&T and say they "help design and market the iPhone 4" is incredibly stupid, more when Apple holds hundreds of patents and the device is the same for the whole world that includes a bunch of carriers.

Have a nice day waveghel

And for other people here, stop the trolling, makes u look ignorant and dumb.
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post #140 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post

Every indication they're giving us is that they consider the users to be the problem. They set the tone of these issues, not me. Two minutes from Job's acknowleding issues and a full fledge effort to solve them would have saved Apple incalculable bad feelings and circumvented the anger and rage from their customers who feel duped and left out in the cold.

Yes, they've definitely made some major PR blunders, they really shouldn't have said anything until they were certain of what was going on. But, despite the rage and anger, and feelings of being duped, you might consider that, in all honesty, at the time he sent that private email, Jobs may have thought there were no serious issues. (And I don't consider the signal loss from simply holding the phone, as opposed to bridging the seam, to be a serious issue as most reports indicate that the call quality is fine under those conditions.)
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post #141 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

During that week the company's chairman and CEO has denied in writing that there is a problem, and the company has sent written instructions to its store employees describing specifically how they should deny there is a problem when faced with customer complaints.

What exactly do you imagine would change, and how many weeks would you give it?

I agree, however, it hasn't been proved that the "leaked" letter to Apple Store employees as acurate, but i'll give it the benefit of the doubt.

On how much time, IMO, I think the sooner the better, if they win the Class-action case, i would demand either a quick re-issue with the product fix or a recall. Not this public marketing crap that's in the file. that's just silly.
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post #142 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

No, you are not stuck. You have 30 days to cancel the contract.

I hope you are right...I might have to go that route....

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post #143 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I look forward to the giant sticker on the iPhone 4 noting that left-handed people are probably under the influence of witchcraft and should be beat into being right-handed or burned at the stake.

we all covered this in a previous post from AI, but for those who missed out...
Right handed people hold the phone with their Left hand and use their Right hand to point.
Left handed people hold the phone in their Right hand and use their left hand to point. Now, this is IMO but i've heard many other's on this forum agree with this logic.
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post #144 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Yes, they've definitely made some major PR blunders, they really shouldn't have said anything until they were certain of what was going on. But, despite the rage and anger, and feelings of being duped, you might consider that, in all honesty, at the time he sent that private email, Jobs may have thought there were no serious issues. (And I don't consider the signal loss from simply holding the phone, as opposed to bridging the seam, to be a serious issue as most reports indicate that the call quality is fine under those conditions.)

Exactly. The thing about Steve's emails is that they are too precise to derive anything very deep beyond what he is thinking about at that moment. It's a vague snapshot and not a complete portrait. We don't know the depth of Steve's knowledge. Heck, unless he happens to be a GSM RF engineer, he could be making any number of assumptions absent of any advanced testing. Despite the images that we all portray about Steve being everything Apple, he is only one human component that isn't going to be exposing himself by detailing things in a private email conversation.
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post #145 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Yes, they've definitely made some major PR blunders, they really shouldn't have said anything until they were certain of what was going on. But, despite the rage and anger, and feelings of being duped, you might consider that, in all honesty, at the time he sent that private email, Jobs may have thought there were no serious issues. (And I don't consider the signal loss from simply holding the phone, as opposed to bridging the seam, to be a serious issue as most reports indicate that the call quality is fine under those conditions.)

All true, but it's been a long week since then and he still has not come out and said anything. How long do we, the people who paid his company a combined hundreds of millions of $ have to wait?
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post #146 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltWater View Post

... and get blind of all that money they can get with a 190$ phone being sold by the price of 700$!!!

Just a minor correction -

Thats $190(dollar sign in front please) for parts, ADD another $190 minimum for Design, Engineering, marketing, labor of assembly, product support, etc etc.
Then there is profit. Off of profit SUBTRACT, taxes fees R&D and corperate overhead.

In the end, in terms of true profit... perhaps 50 bucks... maybe... that depends on sales.

But back to the topic, Apple needs to address this issue in some manner, it doesn't seem to be going away(rightly or wrongly)
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post #147 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FullGaz View Post

Did they always test the device with a case on?

I think actually they did. They were so concerned with secrecy they probably had them all in those special cases that looked like the 3GS. Someone apparently didn't think to test the product in it's original form as this issue should have been caught very early on in the antennae development.
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post #148 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post

All true, but it's been a long week since then and he still has not come out and said anything. How long do we, the people who paid his company a combined hundreds of millions of $ have to wait?

A long week. A week is 7 days, not very long at all. Very likely not long enough to determine the issue. I don't think they should make announcements about things they don't yet understand. I do think that if you are effected by the seam bridging problem, and not every iP4 is, you should return it. Again, the best way to get their attention is for everyone with the problem to return the phone.
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post #149 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

So I'm guessing you've got an iPhone 4 yourself and that you're able to reproduce this antenna issue? I mean, there can't be any other reason you're coming in here and asserting your opinion with such certainty?

Oh what, you mean you've never put your hands on an iPhone 4 and you're just parroting what every naysayer has to say on this issue?

And I supposed you are going to try and tell us that you have NEVER expressed an opinion about something you did not own? Give us a break and get off your high horse.

As a potential buyer, and someone who had read the various blog and technical analysis articles on the problem, I have just as much right to participate in this discussion and express an opinion as anyone who has purchased an iPhone 4. It's called being an educated consumer, and perhaps the people who have purchased an iPhone 4 and later complained about it should try THAT before their next purchase.
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post #150 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

A long week. A week is 7 days, not very long at all. Very likely not long enough to determine the issue. I don't think they should make announcements about things they don't yet understand. I do think that if you are effected by the seam bridging problem, and not every iP4 is, you should return it. Again, the best way to get their attention is for everyone with the problem to return the phone.

Right on. Making statements about product issues is only a good idea when you can control what they are and how you can deal with them. Especially now. Apple is not going to expose themselves to any more liability then they have to and the reality is, not everything can be done in such a limited time frame.
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post #151 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post

http://discussions.apple.com/thread....83524&tstart=0

http://discussions.apple.com/thread....103&tstart=360

Just like with the antenna and other issues with any CE, some will have problems, but overall the iPhone 4 is much improved over the previous iPhones and it pushes itself farther ahead of its competitors in overall battery efficiency despite the opprobrium of a poor battery.
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post #152 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:36am
my company purchased 50 of the new iPhone 4's and ALL have the same reception issue.
the 50 were ordered in 2 batches a day apart and shipped to 5 different regions in the US all have issues as stated in this article...
Yes you can expect a few corporate law suites over this...
my company has well over 500 other iPhone's from ver 3 and 3gs that work without issue.
if you dont think this is a real issue than have your company go buy 50 iPhone 4's and see how you fare on a return deal...
if you think its hard to return 1 iPhone 4 back to ATT or Apple try 50!
i am refering to the bare hand on the antenna issue all 50/50 loose signal and drop calls, we have over 1500 documented calls dropped by iPhone4 phones.
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post #153 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Stop being silly. Unless you know for sure that Motorola or HTC or Nokia tests theirs without cases/bumpers. (And for sure that Apple did not, throughout the testing process).

Except those other devices didn't have their antennas on the outside of the phone. So in effect, they were in cases...the shell of the phone itself. Apple's is the only phone that allows direct contact with the antenna, which appears to be the root of the problem.
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post #154 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

Hey, everyone who bought an iPhone 4, you still have 24 days to return it for a FULL REFUND! There is no need to sue Apple. Just get your money back and get a life.

This is not about right and wrong, stop using common sense. It's about punishment via lawsuit. Somebody wants to get rich at somebody else's expense. Apple has been successful lately, so they must be taken down! Or at least made to share their wealth with me.
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post #155 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

You are correct...I could just use a case on the phone. But that is not how the phone was advertised. That is not how it was demonstrated in Steve Jobs keynote presentation. That is not how he used the phone. It was not advertised that you will have to spend another $30 for a case to get full functionality of the phone. They should not blame the consumer of their products for hold the phone wrong.

Apple could have just attached the bumper permanently to the phone, and added $30 to the price, or better yet just included it for free. The problem with this is that Apple markets this as the first smart phone to have an external antenna structure. Sorry to rain on anyone's parade, but if the phone needs to have a case to function properly, then this does not constitute an external antenna.
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post #156 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:37am
This is getting good

Steve Jobs to Angry iPhone 4 User: "Relax, it's just a phone."
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post #157 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve's son View Post

Did you read the article? It quotes consumers who purchased the iPhone 4 will be required to pay a 10% restocking fee; upon returning the device.

Of course he didn't read 'the article'...

it was yet another nonsensical 'knee jerk' response from someone bent on defending all things Apple regardless of facts etc.
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post #158 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by waveghel View Post

This is not to understand for Europeans, really you Americans are real mad, you funny silly crazy people, is money all there is in your heads...? Just get a bumper for the iPhone or, indeed, hold it in another way!
Geez, Americans and their lawsuits!

On the other hand we take regular showers and brush our teeth unlike most europeans. I call that a win.
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post #159 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

Just a minor correction -

Thats $190(dollar sign in front please) for parts, ADD another $190 minimum for Design, Engineering, marketing, labor of assembly, product support, etc etc.
Then there is profit. Off of profit SUBTRACT, taxes fees R&D and corperate overhead.

In the end, in terms of true profit... perhaps 50 bucks... maybe... that depends on sales.

But back to the topic, Apple needs to address this issue in some manner, it doesn't seem to be going away(rightly or wrongly)

I would think, given how easy it is to backup your iPhone and restore to another iPhone, that they will re-design the metal casing. They will either need to cover it with something or coat it. This will be a tough one for Apple as the brushed metal has long been a cornerstone of their products.

If Apple tries to push a software update for this issue someone really should give them a good slap in the face. Nothing I hate more than companies pushing software at hardware issues, all it does is basically mask the issue without truly resolving it.

Cheapest option is to give away the bumpers for free, I have the feeling they are going to have to do that, whether by choice or forced to do so by law.

I personally haven't bought the iPhone 4 but if I was one of these early adopters I'd say, "By the way Steve Jobs, saying all phones have this issue is a load of crap!! I thought you were trying to distance your products from others in quality and design. I thought Apple cared about details like this. I thought Apple was about not accepting subpar standards or accepting things for the way they've always been. If we didn't mind the same old issues you have with other hardware we wouldn't pay the premium we do for Apple products! Fix your crap and don't make us pay for it!!"

Yeah, I think I can understand why these guys are ticked, I get a little ticked just pretending to be them.
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post #160 of 413
7/1/10 at 8:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarenDino View Post

I think we can all agree that the iPhone has a flaw that when held like a 'phone' it loses it's signal and ability to make calls.

All Apple has to do is admit it is flawed, recall the devices and fix it.

By being in denial and telling people not to hold it like a phone is like something out of a Monty Python sketch.

There are worldwide reports this iPhone 4 is showing the same defect, no matter what carrier.

Apple is being a greedy corporation and refuses to accept the 1000s of people who say that the phone is defective.

I change my handset every 18 months and currently have the iPhone 3Gs - I, and many of my friends, work colleagues have never heard of or owned a phone that loses it signal when held.

I've started looking around at how people hold their phones. Nearly everybody I see holds it with their finger tips. Not jambed down into their palm. So what does "held it like a phone" actually mean?
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