Apple sued over iPhone 4 reception issues - Page 7

IMHO the only ignorant twits here are you foolish sue happy apple haters . There IS a 30 day return policy on the dam things if you fools aren't happy with apple GO GET A ZUNIEPHONE !!

PS, the 30 days haven't even been reached yet

GOD you haters are a joke.

ski1 has refused to answer that question on prior occasions. He's denying that it's even relevant.

There is also a restocking fee if bought from Apple online or from any Apple store in America.

Wrong fanboy, you need to do better research. Especially on the iPhone 4 flaw. Check out my post here:

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...&postcount=310

Sadly Massachusetts jumped on this band wagon as well. I had to pay sales tax on the value of $599.00. I also believe RI is doing that as well.

It makes mockery of your claim that all of us are Apple haters.

Been there, done that. Replicated the issue on every sample phone and with the Apple store personnel present. They hemmed and hawed like good Apple drones.

I agree, not everyone is effected by this. It may be some phones have a manufacturing defect, it may be related to AT&T signal strength and equipment in different areas and different people also have different body conductivity related to sweat, salt density etc.

The fact that you're having a a good experience is nice, but it in no way diminshes the multitude of others who are having this issue, the almost total majority of them, that are not suing. Your attitude toward those with a problem just shows your juvenile self-centerdness as you're phone is fine.

There is the issue of a 10% restocking fee on any opened iPhone.

Do you like throwing money down the toilet for malfunctioning pieces of equipment?

That's funny, I had two friends with defective iPhone 4 units and Apple gladly replaced them, so your absolute statement that Apple is refusing ANY fault with ANY iPhone 4 is completely BS. They weren't charged 10% restocking fee to have the faulty unit taken off their hands and if they simply wanted their money back they would have gotten it without paying a 10% restocking fee.


Hey, just like your limited, subjective viewpoint on everything.

Kind of funny how the world world works, eh? just because you read black on white, doesn't mean you have to think in black and white.

I've been lurking, for a couple of days, on several of these threads, and I am overwhelmed by the amount of information.

This is my first post so be gentle!

We are in the USA and have an att plan

The little lady and I have ordered replacements for her 3G and my 3GS.

We are both happy with the phones and plan to sell them on ebay.

Our orders are both scheduled to ship tomorrow!

We are concerned that the new phones won't be as satifying as what we currently have,

We can cancel anytime before shipment.

We are seeking advice, pro and con on what to do.

What would you do in a similar situation?

Well, you haven't answered the question on previous occasions, but now that we know the truth, I will say that it's entirely irrational of you to be expressing hysterical outrage over a product you don't own, and an issue you aren't affected by.

I'm not saying no one has a right to discuss the issue if they don't own one, just that to exhibit the level of irrational rage that you have, given the circumstances, points to some mental instability in your particular case.

Nice trolling, but no cigar. You are very, very wrong:


http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Im...#iphonereturns

Lawsuits aside, the real gaffe here is Apple's Public Relations responses to the reception issue. I'm disappointed in the responses. Doesn't sound like the company I know and love.

You are the one that has the irrational rage and the mindset Apple could never make a mistake. Not me. LOL. I never refused to answer the question. You must have me confused with someone else. And my objective thoughts are not irrational. What if there were many reports and expert reviews that the new Chevy Camaro's radio did not work if you touched the steering wheel. I then went to test drive a few of them and they all experienced the same issue as reported. And Chevy denies there is an issue, that I just need to avoid holding the steering wheel or wear gloves. Hmmm, is that irrational to think there is an issue with the car ? That I have to actually own one to have a valid opinion ?

This is purely an emotional response. Though I agree Apple should be dealing with this issue more appropriately, I do believe and will continue to believe that the iPhone 4 reception issues are blown way out of proportion and with that we now have 100's if not 1000's of people complaining about this issue like it was "jumping on the bandwagon".

There was a G4 TV (tech/gaming cable station) show which reviewed the iPhone 4 and said that they had NO reception problem at all when holding the iPhone. They said that it took them half of an hour to actually get the iPhone to replicate the findings of the "death grip" iPhone reception problem.

Wether this is a huge problem or one that effects only 2 or 3 percent of total iPhone 4's sold is not fully determined as of yet. What is determined is that some iPhone users have reported this problem and with sites like Gizmodo who seem to have a bone to pick with Apple. They make it seem that this issue is much larger then it really is. Apple has become that hated company in the eyes of some which has now reached a critical mass.

Keep this is perspective. Apple should not have brushed this off in the manner they did. They messed up with their response to the issue. However it remains unclear just how big a problem this really is. Consider that all smart phones have this problem though to a lesser degree though not that less of a degree because the problem still arises in other smart phone makers like HTC and Motorola. This indicates that this issue may be blown out of proportion by Gizmodo because it suffered industry humiliation for their actions a few weeks prior with its "stolen property"

This isn't what this lawsuit is about. Not every lawsuit is to score a buck. This lawsuit is to get Apple to fix the problem instead of telling consumers to hold the phone different or buy the solution. If a product is defective by design off the shelf you don't sell people the solution to the problem, you give it to them. Especially if the product in question is 300 freaking dollars. I'm a pretty big Apple fan, I have always thought lawsuits brought against them in the past were stupid but this one isn't.

They got their phones returned for the antenna reception problem?

If they did, give me their names and phone numbers, and I want to find out if what you are saying is true.


Chances are their iPhones were returned for a completely different reason than the antenna problem. Especially since Apple says they will refuse to exchange any phone because of reception complaints.

I assume that you realize that all cell phones are just two-way radios and subject to interference.

Antennas have been problematic since radios were invented and for TVs (still using radio frequencies). I'm a manufacturing engineer who has worked at major U.S. electronics companies for decades.

EVERY cell phone has some antenna problems as Nokia found out after slamming Apple and then someone showed them a warning about how to hold Nokia phones in their user manual.

All cell phones that I have used since they were available have had reception problems.

Did you ever have to move a wireless router so that all Macs and/or PCs could connect?

There are an incredible number of wireless interference sources including microwave ovens, garage door openers and various close proximity wireless networks.

If you need a cell phone or better yet, an iPhone 4, get used to the fact that they are not perfect and are unlikely to be trouble free for decades. You may have to hold a phone differently or move a bit for better reception at times.

The wireless cell phone problems are not unique to Apple or AT&T.

You know, you might be right.
The phone could be cunningly designed with the flaw just for Job's pleasure to wind up the consumer cult and journalists...a little power trip or media buzz generation.
"Dance my puppets, DANCE!!"

I mean who designs a radio device where part of your body comes in physical contact with the transmission/reception antenna? That idea seemed odd to me when I first saw it in the keynote.

Exactly.

Well, other than that you've completely misrepresented the content of my posts on this topic, no, it's not irrational to think there is an issue with the car. It is irrational to become enraged and hysterical about it, especially if you discovered this before buying it.

First, that's not the Apple retail store policy. That's the online policy. The retail policy is that they only charge restocking on non-defective items. If you're so sure that you can prove that it's defective, then you won't have to pay restocking fees.


OK. So you finally admitted that you don't own one. So what is all your whining about? If there's a better phone out there, buy that instead. Bitching because the iPhone isn't 100% perfect in every way is foolish. It's impossible to make a phone that can't be improved some day.


Actually, your explanation is not correct. Apple did not claim that they served it hot to increase throughput (in fact, throughput would be higher if they didn't heat it so high). Apple's explanation is that their consumer research indicated that:
1. Customers EXPECTED hot coffee to be hot.
and
2. Customers preferred it at the higher temperature.


I think most of the whiners fit into one of the following categories:
1. They're upset because Mommy won't buy them an iPhone/iMac/MBP/iPad/etc
2. They're upset because they bought Microsoft stock instead of Apple stock 5 years ago
3. Their shills with a hidden agenda (like the Adobe employees who keep posting on the Flash issue or Flash 'programmers' posting on the same topic or ties to Apple's competition

Ordinarily, I would add:
4. Steve Jobs stole their girlfriend
but it's obvious that most of these people never had a girlfriend and probably won't until they move out of Mommy and Daddy's basement.


You really might want to learn what TRUTH means.
1. Apple didn't throw anyone off a rooftop. Neither did Foxconn
2. Those employees are treated better than average employees in the area, particularly now that they've had a 100% raise
3. The suicide rate for those employees was no greater than the reported average for China

Too bad you couldn't post something useful and accurate for your first post.


The discussion was about iPhone 4 and someone suggested that anyone not happy with the iPhone 4 could simply return it. You said your wife and stepdaughter would be unhappy. Sounds like you're pretending that they have iPhone 4.

THAT is exactly why this anecdotal crap is useless. Please either outright lying or presenting half truths intended to mislead.


Accurate information? From an Apple-hater?


Yes it is:
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oG784lyy...retail_us.html

NON-DEFECTIVE items have a 10% restocking fee. If you're so sure your phone is defective and can prove it, there's no restocking fee. Seems more than fair.

So where's the proof that these phones are dropping calls? I've been asking throughout this thread and no one has provided any evidence that it's a real problem. Anand's tests indicate that the iPhone 4 actually drops LESS calls than previous phones.

It's worth mentioning that prior to iPhone 4 antenna hysteria there have been many posts on dropped calls for both of your phones, as well as Nokia's, Blackberries etc.... Phones do drop calls. It's part of life.

As a 3G and iPhone 4 owner i'm more than satisfied. Connectivity ebbs and flows depending where i am but i'd say, hand on heart, my iP4 is better at connecting, or should i say more sensitive in area's where signal is poor. Meaning i can browse the internet on my iPhone 4 where i can't on my 3G. I think it's this sensitivity on the iP4 antenna which is part of the issue. So it's easier to get the iP4 to lose connection if you want to force it to, although in my experience i haven't had an issue holding the phone naturally.

So i'd say if you've had no real issues with connectivity with your 3G and 3GS then i'd doubt very much you'll have an issue with an iP4. It's actually better at connecting to poorer networks than either of those two phones. And that's my honest opinion based on humble experience.

By the way the camera, screen resolution, snappiness and video camera will impress you no end.

Here's what's going to happen.

Apple will make sure all units are manufactured with a coating over the stainless steel. They will accept any and all returns, and exchange returned phones with a newly manufactured coated phone.

Returned phones will be modified with a coating and sold refurbished.

This will all blow over quickly.

Welcome to the forum.

It's possible you'll get a defective device. All CE will have production issues. The more they make the higher number of bad devices will likely be shipped, even if the percentage of bad devices go down. It's the way of things.

This can be DOA, bad mic, screen issue, touch panel issue, bad battery, etc. The possibilities are virtually endless.

Since you are on AT&T and using an iPhone currently you can do some testing to see how this antenna issue may affect you. This, of course, is assuming this particular antenna issue is caused by a weak signal (because this doesn't happen with all iPhone 4s). Just go to the Phone app Keypad, type in *3001#12345# then hit Call (this app is not on the iPhone 4). This will bring up a diagnostic app for the phone. You can ignore everything but the Db rating that has now replaced your AT&T bars. Ignore the negative sign, the lower the absolute value to zero the stronger the signal, as seen in the image below.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/ (Page 2)

The phone itself is a huge improvement over your telephones. Screen, speed, camera, hand feel, etc. are all greatly enhanced. I have the antenna problem on my phone, and while it is a slight annoyance, it's not something that isn't easily lived with even without any sort of case. The only thing you might want to consider is whether Apple will put some kind of coating on the metal parts to eliminate the skin contact issue -- and how soon that will be done. Otherwise, the problem, while real, is not major.

What you want and what you will probably get are two different things. You, the customer, will get absolutely nothing. Class action lawsuits are not about getting justice for the victims. They're about making money for lawyers. While you may find emotional satisfaction in this development it means nothing to Apple, nor will will it have any serious consequences for the company.

1. These lawsuits will quickly disappear into the bowels of the legal system for years.

2. Apple and the lawyers will reach a settlement agreement in which Apple admits no wrong doing or liability. Basically Apple will get to say none of this ever happened.

3. The settlement will pay the lawyers millions of dollars, pocket change for companies like Apple.

4. The plaintiffs will get some minimum value compensation, in this case probably a $10 coupon for the Apple Store to purchase a bumper or case.

5. This will happen three or four years from now in which case the iPhone 4 reception issues will long since be forgotten about. By then the iPhone X will be out and the cycle will repeat.

Class action lawsuits, to my knowledge, have never resulted in any real pain for the defendants. They are simply show trials to placate the aggrieved parties involved. They provide emotional relief but that's it. Apple gets to say nothing happened and you get to say you were David against Goliath for a day. Apple wins, you lose. That's just the way it is.

I hope you're right. Any don't forget the proximity sensor issue too.

Hmm, and how are my posts enraging or hysterical ? I think most of them have been very valid, calm logical thoughts. In fact some people have commented that my posts are very objective and valid. You obviously must have me confused with someone else. Or maybe my valid points strike a nerve with you ?

Of course not, but your argument is that "Apple will assess a 10% restocking fee on any opened iPhone." when that simply isn't true. Have they publicly stated there is an issue with some iPhone batteries, or mics, some just arriving DOA, or many other reasons? Newp! Yet they are replacing these. So not only are you wrong about Apple forcing defective units to have a 10% restocking fee if the box is opened, you are wrong about Apple having to officially acknowledge a HW issue before allowing their stores to return or replace them.

There is no point in replacing an iPhone with reception issues with another iPhone with reception issues. That just means you have more and more returns and more unhappy customers. The resolution is to fix the problem if it's software, or isolate the production problem if it's HW. If it's the latter, you then figure how many are affected, get the serial number range and issue a recall for those items affected. Until such time as that can be done there is no point in replacing all those phones. However, if you can't wait a few days for them to figure out what the problem is and what the resolution will be, then you can get ALL your money refunded without paying a ANY restocking fee, just as my friends did despite your claim that "Apple will assess a 10% restocking fee on any opened iPhone."

Apple says the iPhone 4 antenna is not defective. Thus, it carries a 10% restocking fee if returned. End of story.

As far as I know it is. They don't assess a return fee if you exchange the phone which they'll do if they find it defective, but if you just want to return it they will, unless they agree it's defective. So far they are not.

There is a big difference between a defective phone and a phone that is returned to the store. A defective phone qualifies for immediate exchange. A phone that is returned opened and with a complaint of an antenna reception problem that these people are experiencing is classified as a non-defective return and requires a 10% restocking fee.

Apple has been, and will continue to be the target of hundreds of lawsuits, alleging various damages ranging from premature iBook logic board failure (Vitt) to several regarding executive compensation disclosure (Baker v. Anderson, Vogel v. Apple, Vogel v. Jobs) Let's not forget iPods that scratch too easily (eight separate actions) and iPod earbud volume (too loud).

There are patent lawsuits ("Touch Operation Input Device"), antitrust lawsuits (Somers, Tucker, Charoensak), marketing lawsuits (Branning), patent lawsuits (Honeywell) and iTunes-looks-too-much-like-my-way-of-sorting-your-music-collection lawsuits (Individual Networks, LLC). Oh and don't think of making your charger plug light up when it's charging since some guy named Harvey says he thought of it first. Nokia appears to lay claim to every stinking phone ever built and is therefore owned a bunch of money, mostly Apple's. Then there are the totally incomprehensible lawsuits that appear to be written in Engrish: "Protection of Software Again [sic] Unauthorized Use" (Tse).

Apple has filed its share of lawsuits too, going after every iPhone copycat they can prove infringes upon their (dozens? hundreds?) of patents.

Litigation is a cost of doing business in the US. It's a cost that rises commensurately with a company's success, and Apple has been quite successful. When the potential cost of litigation rises above the cost of settlement, Apple will settle, like any reasonable person or business would.

There is nothing new here.

It's only certain segment of the customers who are psychopaths. It's no different than the user discussion forums where only those with problems show up. They quickly extrapolate their fellow commiserators to include the entire Apple universe, quickly and solemnly declaring their issue to be universal or widespread. They feel more reassured if they are not alone in their fury against Apple. It also masks their inability to actually know what the issue really is.

So it is with the Death Grip issue. It's almost a certainty that this involves a minority of users. A whole lot of people are running off at the mouth, posting links, furiously ramping up the heat yet don't even own the device. What's up with that? But they are enraged and vocal so it only SEEMS they are the majority. They are not. They are the psychopaths.

I have an iPhone4, I love Apple and the iPhone.
I have a rubber case for my iPhone4, as I have always had a rubber case for all my ipods and iPhones and Nikons and Cannons and a every gizmo that I need to protect.

Truth...
With the case off, if I hold iPhone4 so that my palm connects the two antennas, the 3G signal drops significantly, enough to drop a call. This is unfortunate but I don't care because.... again, I have a rubber case which I always use. With the case on, I have NO problems with signal strength, as a matter of fact I get a higher 3G download speed then what I get from my DSL from Covad.

This is a great gadget, a great camera, facetime is fantastic, the screen is crazy beautiful, the battery will take me a full two and a half days of use before hitting below 20% and the iOS update is rock solid.

I think a lawsuit over this issue is a waste of time, but that's what lawyers do.

Get a case for your iPhone4, so when you drop it, it won't shatter the screen. If you can't manage that, then don't carry around nice things in your pocket.

I think Apple should give each iPhone4 customer a voucher for a free Apple bumper and be done with this.

yi just got my iphone 4 today . i had a 3gs before this. Yes it is a problem . I do think apple should give out free bumper cases.

BUT this did not deter me. Anybody using an iphone without a case is asking for it. These phone will break when dropped no matter what apple states. The cases also gets rid of the problem anyway.

Very good points.

Dude you have my whole story wrong! Do you even know my story. I had a 3GS and never had a problems with it no matter how I held it. When I upgraded to a 4G I gave my 3GS to my step daughter for use with her AT%T account. If I returned my 4G because I wasn't happy with it...it would leave me without a phone. I could not ask for it back! Then my step daughter and her mother, my wife....would not be happy with ME.
So get the story right before you misquote me or try to correct my statements....

Maybe Steve should just retire, relax, enjoy his family. It is just a phone. Not worth it.


"Steve Jobs" and "philanthropy" in the same sentence - LOL

I'm sorry, but I'm with Mr. Jobs on this one. If you have to GRIP your phone by wrapping your hand around the whole of the back and sides, then you're holding it wrong. I've seen several people with the new iPhone, in addition to using one myself, and have not seen any significant drop in signal. Even in the areas where my 2g iPhone dropped to 1 bar, I have 3+ bars with the iPhone 4.

It's NOT defective. ANY phone you wrap your hand around in a firm grip is going to suffer from reception issues. The FCC requires the antennae to be mounted as far from the users head as possible. In most modern phones, it's in the bottom.

The problem here is 1.7 million iPhone 4s sold in the span of a couple of days. My issues is this: 1,700,000 phones were sold, yet a small portion are having this issue!

Another problem I see is everyone is complaining about reception issues, yet Nokia, in an attempt to poke fun at Apple resulted in a user posting video of his new Nokia phone dropping from 5 bars to NO SERVICE or zero bars by simply picking the phone up.. Even holding it with an open palm resulted in a total signal loss WITH the AT&T microcell signal booster!

http://www.techrockstar.com/2010/06/...ones%E2%80%99/

The fact remains: 1.7 million sold and a few complaining. Those who are suing are just ignorant people who are too stupid to simply return the phone within the 30 day SATISFACTION GUARANTEE period, and the lawyers too greedy to point that out!

People need to get off the bandwagon the media has created in suddenly hating Apple and the new iPhone simply because a few people have issues. The few that aren't happy simply need to return their phones! It's so easy a DROID can do it!