Apple sued over iPhone 4 reception issues - Page 3

I'm not aware of any "problem discussion" between the board and the CEO. Can you show me where that has been confirmed? A private email doesn't say much of anything.


Sorry, I'm going to have to call you on this. You have to prove neglect and nobody has been able to do this. I doubt that can be done with a product being on the market for about a week. Cite please.

You think this might be exhibit "A" in the case?

This is really starting to be a clusterfuck.

Except no company is going to do that. That would open themselves up to huge liabilities if they try to blanket cover something that they might not have a good understanding of something. That's way too risky. They aren't going to say anything official until they know what they are up against and can actually address it properly.

ETA:


No, that was a wi-fi issue and not a cellular issue. It's irrelevant.

.....

Aside from your rudeness, there might be more to the store for some people. Personally, I gave my phone to my son, so an exchange would prompt me either yanking it (not something I want to try) or a re-purchase of a new 3Gs, which seems silly. On top of the 10% changes, a lot of money for the same phone that I had.

You are right... I might just have to do that.....I m ight even just opt out entirely...not sure at this moment..... Apple has really handled this whole issue poorly. At this point I don't know if I want another iPhone.....

What did you replace with your new iPhone 4? I replaced an iPhone 3G and I can roll back to that if I decided to return my iPhone 4 and revisit this whole thing in 2-4 months.

Now if every brand new product generated class action lawsuits for major glitches and design issues, then ignoble lawyers would be even richer than they already are.

Maybe some of these litigious folks should wait for the software fix before suing.

If I'm reading these articles correctly the 4G gets better reception than a 3GS if you buy a case for it. I think that's the route I'd go. It does stink that in some cases folks are having to put the 4G in a case for it to work well for them. It's an inelegant solution. That being said, I've never had an iphone that I didn't have in a case just to protect it from when I inevitably drop it.

Thank you! What he said.

Looks like Hipcrime's back....

Incredible. Absolutely incredible.

I take it that the 10% restocking fee is the issue? Otherwise, I see no case. There's nothing preventing any company from releasing a flawed product - not saying it truly is flawed - as long as the product doesn't physically harm anyone or financially set anyone back as a result of the flaw.

That would be an option if I kept my 3Gs. I gave it to my step daughter. She is using it on her own AT&T plan. So I cannot just ask for the phone back now......
I should have waited and not be an early adopter of the new phone....I just expected it to work as advertised in the keynote presentation.....

Why do people assume that lefties hold the phone with their left hand? I actually hold my phone with my right hand thus leaving my left hand free to operate the phone. But then, that's just me. If anything, I would think righties would be the ones holding the phone in their left hands.

Does anyone else realize that it also has to do with how good the signal is in your area? I can't make my iPhone do it everywhere but, I can hold my iPhone 4 normally and stop data all together in most places, but in some areas the reception is fine no matter how I hold it. So... based on this knowledge, don't you think that perhaps the people who aren't having this issue simply live in a really strong signal area?

I personally think that this is an issue with every iPhone 4 but some people do not experience it because they live in an area that has very strong signals.

Nowhere. Had you read the comment you quoted you'd note that it includes "if it hasn't happened already", denoting that it may not have happened yet.

At least, not over this episode.

Some of us who've been Apple customers for a while remember the last time Jobs got a dressing-down from the Board.


You're free to feel that way but courts often subpoena emails as evidence, and written statements from a company representative to a customer on an issue are commonly seen as statements of the company's position on that issue.

Although I've seen this response many times on the forums, it doesn't resolve the principle arguement that the device has a "known" defect inherent to it and should be addressed by Apple. It's been reported that, Apple is trying to fluff it off and hope it goes away. That's not a responsible reaction to the issue, IMO. However, if the consumers want to make a statement, they should return them. No better way to make a statement. But, we still don't know for certain what the actual number (%-wise) of consumers that legitimately have this problem. That's why a law-suit may be valid. But, i didn't see any word of forcing a recall. That would be my main point of restitution. To make them fix the problem, not just pay damages; Apple has way too much cash-on-hand that they could just settle out of court and forget it ever happened. That worries me a little, and beacuse the lawfirm suing (at least the one name in this post) are known "am-ba-lance" chasers.

There was no page at all. BGR typed some text into a grey box with a blue line on their web page. They claim the information came from an "Apple Connect". They do not claim to have seen a document.

AI, MR, and about everyone else who cares more abouts hits than credibility decided to add the "document" or "memo" piece to the story. To be clear the fancy document on BGR is not a picture of anything. The bolding was done by BGR. You would think people running all these other web sites would look at the HTML and understand what they are dealing with.

I think it would be hilarious to see a picture of that grey box in court...

maybe not from the Apple store but
there absolutely is a restocking fee if you bought the phone from AT&T

Again, I think it can't be pointed out too frequently that there are several separate issues involved that are all being lumped together in the hysteria of this discussion. They are:


The first issue is not, I think, anything Apple needs to do anything about since the phone apparently continues to work, and many reviewers have stated that it works better than previous iPhones.


The second issue is definitely a problem, but because it doesn't affect all iP4s, it seems almost certain that it's not a design problem, but some sort of manufacturing issue, which could be related to an assembly defect, out of spec hardware, or incorrect firmware or iOS versions being loaded on phones. This problem Apple needs to address in a manner appropriate to the exact nature of of the problem.

If it's a hardware issue that can't be mitigated with a software fix, an offer of the option of a free case or full refund (including any carrier fees) would I think be acceptable. Although, while it might cost more, I think it would be in Apple's long-term interest to recall these devices and replace them.

If it's a software issue, or a hardware issue that can be mitigated with a software fix, I think it's entirely acceptable that Apple do so and that a recall or other offer of compensation is not necessary. However, if a software fix somehow compromises the phones performance in other ways, I again think it would be in Apple's long-term interest to recall and replace.


The third issue is obviously something Apple needs to address. Again, it's not clear if this is a hardware or software issue, although, it can probably can be satisfactorily addressed in software, regardless of the exact cause. Based on reports seen about this issue, I think it's likely that at least some, and perhaps many, of the "dropped calls" people are reporting are actually related to this problem, and not to the other 2 issues.


I think it's also important to point out that Apple has made no official statement regarding any of these issues. Leaked memos and private emails do not count as official statements. It hardly seems necessary, but apparently is, to point out that it's only been 1 week since the phones release. Obviously, there are several issues involved (as outlined above, and perhaps other issues that they have to sort through, as well) and, frankly, it's just crazy to expect them to be in a position to make an official statement at this time: almost anything they say now could turn out to be incorrect, which is nearly as much a disservice to customers as never admitting any issues.

I think it's entirely reasonable to give them at least 4-6 weeks to sort out all the issues involved and determine a course of action. If they can't do so in that time frame, they should then at least acknowledge that there are issues they are investigating, and how widespread they appear to be. I don't think it's acceptable for them to just maintain a silence and not publicly address these issues, and I'd be very disappointed in them if they were to do so.

However, in the meantime, I do think that those who are slinging mud at Apple nonstop over these issues, especially including those who, like me, do not own an iPhone 4 (I would have if AT&T were to have allowed me to upgrade, and, sure, it's easy for me to remain calm because I'm clearly not affected, but rationality ought never be out of style.), are either caught in the grip of some hysteria, or are simply opportunistic Apple bashers who are seizing on these issues to do just that -- i.e., they don't give a damn about whether there are real iP4 issues or not, or about people inconvenienced by them, but are simply happy to have a stick to beat apple with. I think there are quite a few of the latter here, and no small number of the former.

Giving in to the hysteria is just as bad as irrationally claiming that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the iP4. Coming here solely for the perverse pleasure of bashing Apple is simply pathetic.

"Data" and "facts" like this?:

"So all the 'dropped call' complaints are people who set out to intentionally have a problem."
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...8&postcount=61

From what others have posted Apple stores (retail) do not have a restocking fee on returns for the iPhone. Any other retailers are outside of Apple's pervue. Even if it was about a restocking fee, it is at most going to be only 60-70 bucks. That's going to be dealt with in small claims court and not this kind of venue. Overall I doubt that is going to be the issue.


Unless you (g) can show otherwise, Apple has enough wiggle room to argue that they are covered well under the standard deviation for normal product defects and third party coverage. It's not proof of anything lawsuit worthy. Comments on a message board are not going to be seen as really credible evidence in a court of law. They are pretty much hearsay until they can be verified independently.

From arstechnica http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...enna-issue.ars

"But there is good news in all of this. AnandTech also discovered that the iPhone 4 can actually use signal at the lower threshold far more reliably than any previous iPhone. "It's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS," according to Anand Shimpi. "The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use."

It is inelegant and crap. But instead of returning it, why not get a case to stop the bridging of the antenna instead of incurring all those fees for a return?

I have an iPhone 4 on order to be delivered in a few days.

I have read extensively on the reception issue, the proximity sensor issue, the battery issue etc.

Normally, I am very against lawsuits. In this case, I am for it. I have bought Apple stuff almost exclusively since 1987. I love their products. However, I support these suits, because of Apple's extreme arrogance and complete distain toward us, it's customers.

iPhone 4 has been a botch since day 1. First, the white one was unexpectedly unavailable. Okay, things happen, but why couldn't Apple just come out and give people a straight answer. Then, the phone is released and there are two to three critical issues within hours. Again, Apple could come out and say, we're aware of the problem and working on it. Instead we get the BS from Jobs about "holding your phone differently," we get internal memo's leaked telling support how to screw the consumer over. We hear rumors about a software release that is "supposed" to fix a hardware issue, but again apple says nothing.

HAD APPLE MADE ANY PUBLIC OFFICIAL COMMENTS LETTING PEOPLE KNOW THEY ARE WORKING ON IT AND THEY WILL SUPPORT THEIR CUSTOMERS, these lawsuits likely would never have been filed. It is Apple's arrogance and the feeling that people are getting that Apple will do nothing for us that is driving this.

When I get my phone, I will try it with an open and hopeful mind. If it works, great. If not I will return it and wait for the Samsung Captiva. If I get charged 10% restocking fee, you'd better bet, I'll be royally pissed.

13 people included on these suits out of 1.7 MILLON sold and people call the phone a poor design? You might want to check into manufacturing of product before calling for a recall. I wouldn't be happy either if a product I bought didn't work but to sue; please.

Ah, I see. You definitely can't get it back. For me, I haven't really had any problems from my phone now on day 2. The thing is, I though about returning my phone and waiting for all this to blow over, but I've quickly become spoiled by the iPhone 4. The thing that bugs me is that my favorite case and screen protector maker doesn't have any product yet and won't for another 2-4 weeks. So my phone goes unprotected from drops and scratches until then I guess.

Battery issue?

What battery issue?

That's really great, except by then it's too late to return the phone and void the contract with AT&T. So we give Apple time and if they can't fix it, we're screwed.

As for Apple making a statement, they don't need to give us a fix, just let us know they consider these issues and are working to solve it ASAP. They could let us know they'll stand by their product and us, and not stop until it is right. Instead they tell us everything is fine and we have to adapt to their product.

Numerous users are reporting vastly diminshed battery time on both the 3GS and the 4 with iOS 4.

ok, buy my trashed Mercedes E class for a price of a new one. And don't complain because you can repair it (or just don't drive it, indeed).

Battery issue?!? The battery on my iPhone 4 is way better than the one in my 3G. After a day of use yesterday (configuring, making a dozen or so calls, letting friends and co-workers check out my phone, taking pics, having Bluetooth on, WiFi on, location services on, shooting a few minutes of video and getting email all day), I had depleted only half the battery by the time I got home. I've been reading all about the phone and have yet to hear about a battery issue. As for the proximity sensor issue, my phone doesn't seem to have it. Can't say I have a reception issue either.

I'd like to buy the world a case and furnish it with love,
stop OS freeze and data fees, and stop drops without gloves.
I'd like to teach the world to hold it, in perfect harmony,
I'd like to buy the world a case and keep it signal loss free.
(Repeat the last two lines, and in the background)

It's the real thing, iPhone 4 in a case is what the world wants today.

Well, good point. Although, I would point out that it would definitely get Apple's attention if everyone who is having problems of type (2) that I described above were to return their iPhones, it would certainly get Apple's attention.

(And, I don't think Best Buy or Radio Shack customers can legally be charge restocking fees on "defective merchandise", so demonstrate the type (2) defect, stick to your guns, and I doubt very much that they will push the issue to the point of actually charging you a fee. Of course, one problem with buying anything at Best Buy, at least, is that they will want to give you a store credit and not a refund.)

The sad part is that if it goes to court, and Apple actually loses, then the ruling will likely be that Apple has to give all affected users bumpers. That just seems wrong to me.

Who knows, maybe the soon-to-be released iOS 4.1 will improve the baseband control and fix the problem. Or maybe Apple will realize that the affected batch of phones didn't get the protective coating in manufacturing to prevent the skin/radio interference.

Wishful thinking? yeah, maybe so.

How much do you think the parts to a new Ferrari cost?

Certainly not what they charge for the final product.

It's called business. Look it up sometime.

Apple won't achnowledge that the merchendise is defective. Hence the lawsuit to force them to acknowledge this and deal with it. All of this is Apple's fault, with it's arrogance and belief that it does not have to address the complaints of their consumers. Normally, I'd say fine let the market screw the company as people stop buying their products. Here, aside from the huge cost of the item, people may be stuck with, is the two year contract people will also be stuck with preventing them from getting a new phone for two years without paying hundreds of dollars.

I agree completely with this. I've been most impressed with the battery life on this phone compared to apple's previous releases


How would anybody know how the 4 works without iOS4 installed since it's the only operating system that it's known

Lets go back a year..

Remember the white iPhone turn pink article, remember the overheating articles. All absolutely nothing articles which did the rounds for a couple of weeks perpetuated by the same moaners and whiners and Apple haters on these and other blogs.

I think that after an Apple product launch its advisable to stay away from forums and blogs for a good 6 weeks to avoid the haters. I would wager that 99% of the posters don't even have an iPhone, let alone an iPhone 4.

No, the ruling would be a recall, replacement or refund required.