Apple says iPhone 4 calculates bars wrong, software fix forthcoming - Page 4

Give them a chance... they need to be careful, and we're only 8 days in.

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Thanks for the reply, I made a mistake. I'am sure I read the calibration method I described. It wasn't Anand though.

J.

Can someone help me out here. Is this going to fix the fact that when I hold my iPhone, I can't download any data? I never seemed to have that problem on my iPhone 3G.

I was hopeful that a software fix would improve this problem, but I guess instead of improving the problem, they're just going to show the problem differently to us.

If I have 2-3 bars at my house right now, am I going to have NONE now? This sucks. This really, really sucks.

They should've just called this thing the new iPod touch. I have to be on wifi, if I want data to load and I need to use a different phone to make phone calls with it. Great.

This does not make me happy at all. It's still going to be the same even after the update. People are still going to realize that they're unable to use their phone where their old iPhone was used flawlessly.

It's not about showing the bars accurately, it's about touching the phone and losing all reception all together.

I think Apple knew AT&T's service was shit, so they left this flawed code for their own advantage.

I don't think so.

However, I do think that anybody that complains about something they don't have any experience with isn't very brilliant.

OK, let's review. There are 3 issues that may combine to produce call and signal issues:

1. Attenuation caused by touching the antenna
2. Complete data service intrruption caused by bridging the seam
3. Misfuntioning of the proximity sensor

The promised update doesn't actually address any of these, although, it seems that it will more accurately reflect what's going on in relation to the first issue. However, I don't think this was ever really as big an issue as many thought it was.

The third issue, which is probably responsible for at least some "dropped calls", may be quietly addressed by a software update, and since it hasn't really been the focus of a lot of attention it's not too surprising that they haven't specifically mentioned it.

The second issue, which seems to be the most significant real issue, doesn't seem to be addressed at all. Since it doesn't affect all phones, I don't think it's a design issue, which leaves the possibility of some sort of manufacturing issue, which could be hardware (e.g., improper assembly) or software related (e.g., improper firmware version). It will be interesting to see if this issue goes away after the update, or remains as an actual problem. But, it doesn't seem particularly reassuring to me, and I'm sure not to iP4 owners afflicted by this issue, that it remains unaddressed through this announcement.

Interesting that they refer to Android-based phones as simply Droid. Perhaps it's like most of the "Get a Mac" ads not referring to Windows, just PC, until the gaff with Vista made is sour name worth stating directly.


Note that they aren't saying it's a faulty design, simply stating that some have made the accusation.


I'm amazed that some of you actually have a problem with Apple stating they had to look into the problem. I know it doesn't jibe with your conspiracy theory that Apple designed the Bumpers to deal with reception issues, but perhaps it's time you let that silly drop for once, or am I asking too much from this community?


A few weeks, eh? I have assume they will issue it sooner rather than later in that time frame, but it does suggest the resolved than altering the height or bars and what Db each bar represents.



Wait, what?! I and others were saying this yesterday and were told we were liars and fanboys. g3pro in particular was posting an obnoxiously large font to refer to non-defective product returns and products that weren't phones. So is this a new policy or did some people run around like Chicken Little, yet again? inquiring minds want to know.



Maybe this will lead to "More prototypes in more bars".



Who said there was no issue? Who said that Apple and iOS 4.0 was perfect? The only thing the pragmatic posters stated was that there is no proof of the exposed antenna being a "design flaw". Big difference.



Classic corporate misdirect. They admitted to one thing while ignoring another. But that's not their fault, it's the silly Chicken Littles who have clouded the issue this past week. All Apple did was their hysteria to their advantage by disclosing one issue as the issue.

I think it's telling that it will takes up to a few weeks to release a fix for this. That makes me lean even further toward this being a driver issue for the UMTS chips; well, that they will try to fix with a driver issue.



That is an erroneous conclusion and only works if all other things are equal, which they are not.

Of course, the real test will come after the update. If you can touch the iPhone 4's "3G-Spot" and have a website stop completely and instantly, and then startup again the moment you release it then they would have successfully resolved the issue.



Your argument starts off saying Apple is too big and experienced to make such a gaff (which isn't true, look at MS et al.), but then your next paragraph talks about basic functionality that they have failed at. You can't have it both ways. You either to think that all companies, run by people, can make a mistake, or that they are infallible. If they don't mistakes then I guess we should never expect point updates to SW.

Note, this is only their 4th device using cellular tech pushing the envelope of size, power and efficiency well beyond the longtime giants in this industry, and there are many who claim that Apple can't even get WiFI right even though they've had that under their belt since 1999.



Have lemon, want working model, get new one. Have lemon, don't want new one, get money back. Have lemon, want new one, but only after SW fix proven to work, get money back.



Nice find!



It doesn't take a few weeks to alter a "pretty picture".



That sounds like a great idea.

"..stunned to find.." ? It's easy enough to understand how a provider would want more bars to be showing on their phone, provided there is enough of a signal to hang on to. After all, that's one of the things we compare with our friends standing in the same spot. It may be cosmetic and a selling factor at the same time. (Think over and under contrasted TV screens in certain showrooms).

It's probably a great move for a company to advertise they are using a more correct and informative means of displaying signal strength. But I don't get how they were stunned to find what the bars are actually showing.

Exactly..this is why the lawsuits are garbage at this point. They were filed even before the period of return expires. Any company has to be given a chance to correct a problem.



Do you really not understand? You're in a weak signal area, but you think you're not. You could be in a place with "3 bars," whereas you only have one. You could think you're in a place with 1 bar, and you really have none. It's not Apple's issue...it's Craptastic AT&T.






They will likely lose or withdraw. Apple hasn't even had time to issue a fix yet. And to win or possibly even file the second lawsuit, you'd have to prove not only damages, but negligence. You'd have to prove that Apple knew of the calculation issue all along, and did nothing to fix it. Good luck.


Apple cannot fix where you live. That's simply an AT&T issue. AT&T sucks, by the way. As for the proximity sensor, it sounds like they need to give it less "tolerance," not more. It needs to be MORE sensitive, apparently.


Let's see those "testers" and their "reviews." The only thing I've seen is bars dropping.


Yes. Are you honestly surprised? Have I mentioned what a pile AT&T is in many places?


"Evidence?" What "evidence" do you have?


Bullshit. There are only unconfirmed and/or isolated reports of this. There are reports of signal bars dropping. Those are different.


Then just cancel your order now, because you're being foolish. You're pre-judging what you're going to do about a problem that 1) You don't know you'll have, 2) Might not even really exist, and 3) Before even giving Apple a chance to fix it. If your phone constantly drops calls and generally sucks over a period of say, two weeks...then return it. Then get an Android phone ON THE SAME NETWORK and use it in THE SAME PLACES, and see if it's better. I say two weeks, because network conditions vary widely. AT&T has been shitty for me for the last couple of weeks, with dropped/unavailable 3G for no reason, dropped calls, etc. It will get better as it always does. But yeah...AT&T sucks. Surprise.

Can you somehow get the field test mode back if you jailbreak? Or something like it?

This changes nothing. Again.

Are you interested in getting the issue resolved or just interested in complaining?

Do you really have an iPhone 4, or do you just claim to?

The reason I ask is, you joined AI :

Join Date
06-30-2010
Total Posts
4

And your posts all appear to be negative:

http://forums.appleinsider.com/searc...earchid=352112

here's your first post:



Kinda' came out with your guns blazing! And, you ridiculed Jobs' name and questioned his sincerity.

Why would you buy anything from someone you hold in such low regard?

Do you believe that is a reasonable approach to resolving a problem?

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Thanks for your informed, well-thought-out and excellently stated post.

Awe, his comment is funny. I'm all for the digs at a company, so long as they aren't hysteria driven.

Apple/Steve Jobs: 2 + 2 = 5, 5 bars means 0 bars, 1 bar means 5 bars, antenna in grip of phone where one finger kills all reception = best antenna design ever, iPhone 4's inferior reception compared to iPhone 3gs means iPhone 4 has "best reception ever".

Are you suggesting that because I want to buy a working phone that comes from a company that backs it with real customer support and honesty isn't very brilliant?

Are they going to try to cover up the proximity sensor issues, too? Perhaps after you hang a call up it will display a message saying your face is too fat, and it is your fault.

Yeah I don't have an iPhone, yet. I've been saving big for this. I'm not going to spend a ton of money on a product that sucks, and even moreso on one from a company that sucks.

I upgraded from a 3g as well and my issue is that when driving home, the iPhone 4 drops calls on the same hill that I never had an issue with my 3g. I am was never holding the phones, they were plugged into the car using the car's bluetooth.

However, we could be dealing with quality control issues. All iPhone 4s that my company upgraded each have their own set of issues. Yesterday we tried replacing the some of the SIMs with new ones since that may help sometimes. I don't know if there is a benefit to that yet. Some just have straight-up hardware issues, speaker doesn't work, any call made with another has severe crackling. One will randomly stop all internet connections when the phones around it are working great, etc.

We definitely feel like we got a bag of lemons! On the bright side, we determined that all the iPhones with battery issues have all had cases on them 100% of the time. All the "naked" haven't had a single dead battery.

WHAT??? Better re-read some of the five hundred or so posts from yesterday. Many here screamed there was no problem with their iP4 so there were no problems with anyones. A typical post for this forum I might add.

But I digress. I don't have an iP4 so I'm not supposed to comment. Just forget what I said.

I think testing has shown that the phone does better than the previous models.

Then don't. Just don't, please.

I think we've covered this. You can pretty much do anything with a jailbroken phone and you can get, at least the carrier DBs in the Menu Bar with a clever hack without jailbreaking.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/t...one-4-review/2

From the article:

As a reminder, if you are not fully satisfied, you can return your undamaged iPhone to any Apple Retail Store or the online Apple Store within 30 days of purchase for a full refund.

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Just to re-write your list based on the technical explanations I've read:

1. Signal attenuation caused by something (your hand) blocking the signal.
2. Antenna de-tuning caused by direct physical contact with the antenna and/or bridging the gap between the two antennas.

3. The proximity sensor issue.

#3 I think is irrelevant to this discussion. My understand is that is simply a display issue with the the sensor not properly lighting/dimming the display when the phone is held close to your face.

#1 is the issue Apple says common to all cell phones. They are right about that. All cell phones, all radios, will suffer in performance when something blocks (attenuates) the signal from getting to the antenna. You don't need direct contact for signal attenuation. Just something between the receiver and the transmitter.

#2 is the issue Apple is completely ignoring/denying. Their design exposes the antenna to direct contact, which affects antenna performance. Anyone who has ever used rabbit ears on a TV knows this. Standing near the TV can have a mild effect on the reception. Actually touching the rabbit ears has a huge effect on the reception.

One need not own an iP4 to comment, just be rational in your comments. Now, could you quote us a few of the posts where people were screaming that there were no problems at all with any phones?

I can't see anyone being so daft as to think or say that not a signal iPhone could be possibly be faulty simply because theirs works. Then again, I can't imagine anyone being so daft as to go into hysterics because their iPhone doesn't work.

Please, find me some of these 500 hundred posts stating that it's impossible for there to be faulty units.

Surely that can't be true.

A wonderfully sensible statement!

I wish other people could think beyond the "oh, Apple is so great" and look at each product objectively and say "oh, iPhone 2G is so great", "oh, iPhone 3G is so great", "oh, iPhone 3GS is so great" and "BTW, something is amiss with iPhone 4". Just because the last few products were good, how can people simply ignore the complaints of thousands of other users who have genuine problems?

Nice one. Fabricating "facts", using them to attack a reputable site whose article you have not read and then exposing both the lie and the fact that you have not read the article.

Even if this is true, it doesn't seem to be true for a vast number of people. There have been over 2 million phones sold (if you ask me to prove that I will ignore that request for a couple of reasons). Where are the numbers? How many people actually wind up in a situation where the signal degradation is "worse than other phones"? Then, when you factor in the issue of holding different phones in different places along their edges, how does the iPhone 4 stack up then?

My point is, there may be an issue, affecting a tiny percentage of people more because of where they use it than the actual device (as compared to other iP4 devices) they are using. However, the amount of ink spilled over this is completely and totally out of sync with the actual magnitude of the problem.

Also, do you know anything about how field tests are done and certification with carriers is performed? Serious question.

There was a post on another thread where a user returned his phone to AT&T and they refunded all charges/fees, etc. AIR, there was no restocking charge and AT&T even refunded his purchase of an AppleCare extended Warranty.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...59#post1666659

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...88#post1666688

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The part you keep leaving out is that EVEN WITH THE SIGNAL ATTENUATION, the iPHone 4 gets better reception than other phones. So why fix something that's already better than the alternatives?

If you want to improve it so it's 50% better than the alternatives instead of just 20% better, go ahead and get a case. But that doesn't change the fact that even without the case, it's better than the options.


The problem with that is that you're assuming something that's not in evidence. The dropping bars problem has been widely reported. There's no evidence (other than a few anecdotal reports like yours) that indicate that the iPhone 4 drops calls any more than any other phone. In fact, Anand and Apple's testing indicates that EVEN WITH THE 'PROBLEM', the iPhone gets BETTER reception.


So your point is that you're so full of irrational hatred that you expect Apple to become as irrational as you?

Apple chose a technical, rational solution to the problem. They collected data and tested it and reached a conclusion - same conclusion that Anand reached. If you have evidence that the iPHone 4 drops calls any more frequently than other phones, feel free to provide it. Until then, you're just ranting mindlessly.


Because there was nothing of consequence to change. There is no evidence that the iPhone 4 has a reception problem. Feel free to present a scientifically valid study that compares the number of dropped calls to any other phone under the same conditions. If you can find that kind of evidence, then complaining about the 'problem' might be valid. Until then, it's only making you look foolish.

Happy to be one and happy to report that I am more productive and have had more fun on this phone than any other I've owned.

It's not about the truth or lying. Apple is fixing something that may need fixing, but it has nothing to do with the antenna problem is the iPhone 4.

What's your experience been like with your iPhone?

Thankyou.

The Vodafone store was in a 3G area on my Vodafone phone, the o2 store was about 30 miles away from there in a town were my Vodafone phone showed no 3G service at all.


Usually I'm in Edinburgh and as it took about 5 hours for my ip4 to activate was home (20 miles away and out of 3G coverage) when it activated. The Vodafone store was on the outskirts of Edinburgh and worked great before I pick it up on 3G. I suspect, but don't know yet, that the same thing will happen in central Edinburgh, I'll know for sure before that long when I go there.

The streaming radio has been a huge improvement on Vodafone, and I obviously can't tell how much of that has to do with the ip4 because I'm on new network. When I'm not holding the phone everything seems to be working perfectly but I'll try your suggestion, if I need to, because I've noticed the same sometimes in the past too.

But over the past few days, way too many have been groveling at the sacrificial alter.
The immaturity demonstrated by a big faction of the community here has been really pathetic.

more kool aid to feed the fanbois.


still will not explain or help actual contact with the antennas. in other words - DESIGN FAIL.

so the software will hide the flaw and ATT can continue to be the bad guy. touché!

Well said!

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And you explain the fact that most users (myself included) are experiencing far better reception in weak areas... how?

Yep, I take the blame. It wasn't my intention to frame facts though.
Just an honest mistake. But I should have verified my thought.

Never made a mistake yourself?