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Apple says iPhone 4 calculates bars wrong, software fix forthcoming - Page 6

post #201 of 434
Honestly, what they state in the original letter wouldn't actually surprise me. My old phone before the iPhone only ever reported a couple bars at best in my condo. The iPhone: claimed 5 bars fresh out of the box. I'd always wondered if the phone was really that much better, or if something else was going on. Perhaps not coincidentally, my condo's the only place I've managed to reliably get (or see, at least) The Death Grip Effect. So it'll be interesting to see how it goes with more accurate signal strength reporting.

For perspective, though: I've had an iPhone since launch day and have never dropped a call, so my propensity for freaking out over all this is naturally kind of low to start with...
post #202 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Do you know a real issue exists?

Do you know that an above normal percent of the 2.5-3 million devices are experiencing the real issue?

Do you know that Apple won't resolve any real issue? problems to the satisfaction of the customer, regardless of return window (including: refund, replacement, compensation, etc)?

I don't know you-- but you appear (according to your posts) to be a whiny complainer.

I know Apple! They make excellent products. They pride themselves in customer satisfaction!

My bet is on Apple!

.


Not a complainer at all. I expect new release items and software to have issue. I too agree Apple has made excellent products, I've bought them almost exclusively since 1987. I have or have had over 40 Apple products over that span of time. I do have a problem with the way Apple is dealing with this. As they have grown into a giant their customer service has declined.

I obviously don't know for sure what will happen, but the tone of the company does not bode well for a true fix for those that are having the problem.
post #203 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by voodooru View Post

more kool aid to feed the fanbois.


still will not explain or help actual contact with the antennas. in other words - DESIGN FAIL.

so the software will hide the flaw and ATT can continue to be the bad guy. touché!





While I don't really care for the explanation Apple has put forth, I have noticed that other cellphones on AT&T have done the same thing in regards to signal reporting. WIndows smartphones, BB's, my old Moto SLVR, an imported Sony Ericsson V800, an original Handspring Treo 600, and an old Nokia 3360. They ALL would go from full strength to zipo for no reason sometimes, in areas where they would usually show full strength.

Could it be that we expected the phone call quality and reliability to be improved with the iPhone 4? I kinda did when Steve Jobs at D8 said things would get worse before they get better. Is this the getting worse part? Ok, so Apple explains the signal gaffe, but do they address other issues about interference and maybe they should have rethought moving the antenna to the sides. I have defended them in the past week to try to come up with a truthful explanation, but this comes off to me as an insult to the purchasers of this product.

Maybe it's just me, but reading between the lines I'm getting a message that says this problem, is due to AT&Ts signal still being weak, if you really hate it, return it while Apple beats up AT&T and quietly fixes the antenna issue when they ship more iPhones in late July.

Being a long time AT&T customer, I feel your pain in regards to crappy phone reception. I don't have a iPhone 4 yet, as I am waiting for white. I did setup a clients Verizon Droid Incredible and I gotta say it's really!!!!! Mediocre... It's like a bizarro iPhone, and if you thought the keyboard sucked on the first iPhone OS, just try this one. It's fast on their network though, and the call quality is good, you just can't do both at the same time.

So if you stay with iPhone now, you get a great device with crappy phone reception (again). If you leave now and buy whatever Verizon is selling, you get a great network with a crappy device (well maybe not crappy, but severely downgraded). Or you could return the iPhone and wait till January to see if Bloomberg is FOS or not. Plus when you do that you get to see if Verizon's network takes a big sh*t when every customer buys a Verizon iPhone and taxes the network.

I guess there would be one more option to sue Apple, but really you don't wanna go down that road unless you are really bored and have nothing but time and money. If you're thinking of joining the class action, you will need to keep the phone in order to be eligible as part of the class. If you do, don't get mad at me when all you get is a coupon good at the Apple store for $30 along with your money refunded AFTER you give Apple the phone back and wait 4 to 6 MONTHS. That would be after the action SETTLES which could take years. Just ask the class that's suing Dell right now.
post #204 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Again, we are only 8 days into the issue. And Apple must be careful how it responds.

As you say, addressing the accuracy problem is good!

Because of all the hysteria, I think they focused on that first.

If a large number of devices (above normal manufacturing defects) have additional problems, I am sure that Apple will address these, too.

I suspect they are, as we speak, looking at the hardware, cell radios, software, etc. to see if there are any other potential exposures/defects.

There are certain "fixes" that are preferred over others-- for obvious reasons (cost). Other "fixes" might involve recall, reengineering with re-submission for FCC approval if the changes are significant.

In 32 years of dealing with Apple, I have found them to do the "right thing" by their customers. That's one of the reasons that Apple's customer satisfaction ratings are among the highest.

.

In my 29/30 years of using and owning Apple products (granted, I started as a child and 'owned' them in the sense that my parents bought them) I have always preferred them and their products. But, this doesn't mean they are above reproach.

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...sometimes it's both
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post #205 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

OK, let's review. There are 3 issues that may combine to produce call and signal issues:
  1. Attenuation caused by touching the antenna
  2. Complete data service intrruption caused by bridging the seam
  3. Misfuntioning of the proximity sensor

The promised update doesn't actually address any of these, although, it seems that it will more accurately reflect what's going on in relation to the first issue. However, I don't think this was ever really as big an issue as many thought it was.

The third issue, which is probably responsible for at least some "dropped calls", may be quietly addressed by a software update, and since it hasn't really been the focus of a lot of attention it's not too surprising that they haven't specifically mentioned it.

The second issue, which seems to be the most significant real issue, doesn't seem to be addressed at all. Since it doesn't affect all phones, I don't think it's a design issue, which leaves the possibility of some sort of manufacturing issue, which could be hardware (e.g., improper assembly) or software related (e.g., improper firmware version). It will be interesting to see if this issue goes away after the update, or remains as an actual problem. But, it doesn't seem particularly reassuring to me, and I'm sure not to iP4 owners afflicted by this issue, that it remains unaddressed through this announcement.


Consider this...

What if Apple already knows there is a dropped call/data decrease issue? What if they figured out that there is some incorrect firmware/software responsible? Do you think they just want to admit to this for the world to see? I'm thinking if all this is true, then they probably want to save face since Steve has said there is no reception issue. He doesn't want to be wrong in front of the entire world, afterall he is the Worlds Greatest #1 CEO of all time.

So, if they do have a fix that can be administered through a software/firmware update, why not just fold it into the signal strength/bar issue fix that they are coming out with and then they can say, "see, we told you there was no reception issues. Don't worry, we aren't mad at you for accusing us, we still love you Mr. Customer. Just trust us next time, mmmkay?".

Also, the law suit may still go to court, so Apple would also be advised to take this route so they don't admit to any wrongdoing.

On the other hand, they may still not know what the dropped call issue is and need time to investigate. It would be unwise to address the issue if you don't know what the issue is and cannot fix it.
post #206 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Freudian slip?

Probably.

or was it intentional...

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...sometimes it's both
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post #207 of 434
It is entirely possible that it will be quietly addressed through a software update, if that's possible. It's also entirely possible that they haven't yet determined the exact nature of that problem (service loss from bridging the seam). And, yes, the lawsuits probably do constrain their behavior in regard to this issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post

Consider this...

What if Apple already knows there is a dropped call/data decrease issue? What if they figured out that there is some incorrect firmware/software responsible? Do you think they just want to admit to this for the world to see? I'm thinking if all this is true, then they probably want to save face since Steve has said there is no reception issue. He doesn't want to be wrong in front of the entire world, afterall he is the Worlds Greatest #1 CEO of all time.

So, if they do have a fix that can be administered through a software/firmware update, why not just fold it into the signal strength/bar issue fix that they are coming out with and then they can say, "see, we told you there was no reception issues. Don't worry, we aren't mad at you for accusing us, we still love you Mr. Customer. Just trust us next time, mmmkay?".

Also, the law suit may still go to court, so Apple would also be advised to take this route so they don't admit to any wrongdoing.

On the other hand, they may still not know what the dropped call issue is and need time to investigate. It would be unwise to address the issue if you don't know what the issue is and cannot fix it.
post #208 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

It is ignorant to say someone like Anand is an 'ignorant blogger'.

Didn't Brain and Anand state that reception was indeed better on the iPhone 4?
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post #209 of 434
Daft question.

With all the debates about software fixes and antenna issues. Is it really possible to make a phone that won't drop calls?

No matter what Apple does with the phone it will still drop calls...right?
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post #210 of 434
Okay. Here's my story. I took my iPhone back to BestBuy and they refused to give me a full refund. They wouldn't refund the sales tax and they charged me the 10% restock fee. So Apple lied and I got screwed.

No they didn't. I'm lying. See how easy it is to spread stupidity at these websites? Can anyone really believe what they read here? I have read Apple's explanation at Apple.com and I will wait to hear from users what the iOS4 update did to mitigate the reception anomaly.

BTW...I don't have an iPhone because I'm one of those silly Verizon holdouts.
post #211 of 434
Apple may not be admitting it is a problem, but they are saying that touching the lower left corner will result in a 24db signal loss as part of its design. All phones have this because all phones have antenna. It is important to note that despite this Achilles Heel, the iphone 4 is best in its class for signal strength. Would you rather have 24db loss if you hold it wrong or no signal? If you cup your hand around the plastic part of the original iPhone you will have significant signal loss too. I actually think the original iPhone is much worse then the new one, but nobody complained about that. The 3GS has a larger sweet spot, but it is still possible to disrupt the signal. In some ways the new phone is an improvement because it is more difficult to cup you hand around the antenna. If you don't want to hold the phone the way it is designed to be held, you can buy a bumper or case. Most people will be doing this anyway. So basically... if you want to avoid the grip of death, stay off crack.
post #212 of 434
This raises the questions why the bars were made to display much better reception than was actually true for 2 years... the plot thickens.
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post #213 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Didn't Brain and Anand state that reception was indeed better on the iPhone 4?

Absolutely. Best of the bunch.

They also said it was more prone to signal degradation with contact.

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post #214 of 434
Lets see when APPLE releases its software update what happens. Don't be fooled that APPLE is creating a software fix that only conforms the bars to the appropriate signal strength I would think the software fix will correct more than that which APPLE won't say or admit to.
post #215 of 434
i have to admit, i haven't taken the iP4 plunge yet because of all these rumors, test reports, snarky SJ comments and rumor-mills out there...and becaue they haven't put the white phone for sale yet (that was the main reason). Plus, with the iOS4 update on my current iP-3G, i'm pretty content at the moment.

I have to make a side note in all caps for a second. I HAVE NEVER HAD THIS HAND-POSITION/DEATH GRIP ISSUE WITH MY IPHONE 3G!!! SO I CALL FAUL TO APPLE FOR THIS COMMENT ABOUT ALL PHONES HAVING SIMILAR ISSUES.

However, I am still a bit sceptical about this letter from Apple. They claim that the method they used was a software thing and not a ATT system. But the test reports came out of England (or at least i think so), where ATT does not exist. I've also read article (here and other blogs) of people in France experience this (or at least where Orange is the service provider). So i'm still skeptical that this is truly a software issue. Furthermore, if it truly is a hardware issue, what happens when the iOS update doesn't come until day 30 of most people's original purchase date? There is no word of when this update will come out?
post #216 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post

Consider this...

What if Apple already knows there is a dropped call/data decrease issue? What if they figured out that there is some incorrect firmware/software responsible? Do you think they just want to admit to this for the world to see? .

Consider this....

What if Apple already knows that there is a rogue subroutine in the software which will teleport you to Mars if you type a certain sequence of numbers? After all, if we're going to imagine all sorts of bizarre scenarios and conspiracy theories, we might as well make them interesting.
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post #217 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

... They claim that the method they used was a software thing and not a ATT system. But the test reports came out of England (or at least i think so), where ATT does not exist. I've also read article (here and other blogs) of people in France experience this (or at least where Orange is the service provider). So i'm still skeptical that this is truly a software issue. ...

For this particular issue, the carrier wouldn't make any difference, I don't think. I very much doubt they are calculating the bars differently on different carriers.
post #218 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Can you even read? The new firmware will report fewer bars , not more. In trying to be snarky and cute you reveal your complete ignorance. Typical of the trolls.

actually - you're showing your complete ignorance. the comment was in reference to the current issue of showing too many bars for weak signals. not in regards to the fix accurately reducing bars in areas with a weak signal.
post #219 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

Furthermore, if it truly is a hardware issue, what happens when the iOS update doesn't come until day 30 of most people's original purchase date? There is no word of when this update will come out?

They said it was a design limitation. You are not supposed to touch it there. There will be no software fix except to report bars correctly. If you have one bar, you should take extra care to avoid the forbidden crack. If you have five bars then it will not matter. If you had one bar on the original iPhone and covered that plastic antenna cover it would drop your call too. This really isn't a big deal. They still sell the 3GS if you want a weaker signal that is harder to disrupt. Personally, I think the tradeoff is worth it.

Maybe they can detect when you touch the phone there and emit a loud warning sound.
post #220 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

However, I am still a bit sceptical about this letter from Apple. They claim that the method they used was a software thing and not a ATT system. But the test reports came out of England (or at least i think so), where ATT does not exist. I've also read article (here and other blogs) of people in France experience this (or at least where Orange is the service provider). So i'm still skeptical that this is truly a software issue. Furthermore, if it truly is a hardware issue, what happens when the iOS update doesn't come until day 30 of most people's original purchase date? There is no word of when this update will come out?

That is a very interesting point. This issue is happening in other countries too. I would presume since the phone is using the same GSM tech the issue is the same, but it still was not addressed by Apple.
post #221 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4 View Post

Lets see when APPLE releases its software update what happens. Don't be fooled that APPLE is creating a software fix that only conforms the bars to the appropriate signal strength I would think the software fix will correct more than that which APPLE won't say or admit to.

Hopefully!

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post #222 of 434
Has anybody considered that the issues being reported by people are actual quality control issues?

Every iPhone 4 we upgraded has some different issues. The one with network issues isn't from holding the phone, it can be laying on the table next to a 3Gs and other 4 with the 3Gs and other 4 working flawlessly.

It could be as simple as the pre-order demand was so high they shoved a few hundred thousand thru production with inadequate quality control.

There are issues with these phones and I don't discount that people are having reception issues. Especially since many came from a previous model of iPhone and can directly compare. My reception is crap, holding/not holding the phone, case on/off, at all times when compared to my 3G.

But, I am certain it is a hardware issue cause other 4s and early models in the same location work great. Tho, I must say I am annoyed we have to shell out 30 bucks to have them replaced when they are less than a week old.
post #223 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagman View Post

OK I just visited the ATT store yesterday. Indicated 5 bars there and I had no problem w downloading 3g webpages. Left store, went 50 yards away (no buildings or obstructions anywhere around and same 5 bars indicated) and- download stopped cold while touching bottom left antenna (decreased to 2 bars shown). Downloading resumed immediately after lifting finger. Duplicated again to verify results. So -- you tell me this is a software fix? Don't believe it.

But, what if:
-- the 5 bars in the AT&T store were accurate as AT&T had a special cell connection
-- the 5 bars at the other location were over- reported as per this thread

So, in the store, you had an excellent connection, reported as the max of 5 bars?

Outside the store you had a marginal connection, say, 1-2 bars, that was over reported as 5 bars. I would expect the results you experienced-- when the marginal signal dropped to a certain level (the 2 bars were over reported, too), the app stopped downloading data. When you repositioned your hand the app resumed.

It would be interesting to see what would happen on a 3GS in a similar situation-- would you even be able to make a connection?

From what you've reported previously, it appears that you, likely, have a defective iP4.

I have additional iP4s coming in the next few days to replace a 3G and a 3GS.

Your experience has made me think-- rather than upgrade immediately (and deactivate the old SIMs), i''ll just switch SIMs among the iP4s. That way I'll be able to the 3s and 4s side by side.

.
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post #224 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

They said it was a design limitation. You are not supposed to touch it there. There will be no software fix except to report bars correctly. If you have one bar, you should take extra care to avoid the forbidden crack. If you have five bars then it will not matter. If you had one bar on the original iPhone and covered that plastic antenna cover it would drop your call too.

They did not, in the letter, address the issue of why service loss from bridging the seam occurs on some phones and not others, even when those phones should be receiving the same signal because they are right next to each other. It's entirely possible that this is a software issue that will be quietly addressed. It's also entirely possible that it isn't or won't be, at least not at this time.
post #225 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

They said it was a design limitation. You are not supposed to touch it there. There will be no software fix except to report bars correctly. If you have one bar, you should take extra care to avoid the forbidden crack. If you have five bars then it will not matter. If you had one bar on the original iPhone and covered that plastic antenna cover it would drop your call too.

But the location you're not supposed to touch is where you would normally put your hand while holding the phone. That's like saying there is a design limitation in your car. Don't ever turn the steering wheel to the right and you'll have no problems. Oh, by the way this car has the best ride in history, as long as you don't have to make a right turn.
post #226 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

They said it was a design limitation. You are not supposed to touch it there. There will be no software fix except to report bars correctly. If you have one bar, you should take extra care to avoid the forbidden crack. If you have five bars then it will not matter. If you had one bar on the original iPhone and covered that plastic antenna cover it would drop your call too.

Maybe they can detect when you touch the phone there and emit a loud warning sound.

if you're not supposed to touch it there, why the heck would that put it in a place where it's inevitably where you WILL touch it! I wish i could find that post that showed a photo from every iP4 commercial/ad showing everyone holding the phone "the wrong way".

just sayin!
post #227 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

They said it was a design limitation. You are not supposed to touch it there. There will be no software fix except to report bars correctly. If you have one bar, you should take extra care to avoid the forbidden crack. If you have five bars then it will not matter. If you had one bar on the original iPhone and covered that plastic antenna cover it would drop your call too. This really isn't a big deal. They still sell the 3GS if you want a weaker signal that is harder to disrupt. Personally, I think the tradeoff is worth it.

Maybe they can detect when you touch the phone there and emit a loud warning sound.

crack is wak!

So ATT will have to revise the commercials to "fewer bars, but fewer dropped calls, in more places".
post #228 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post

But the location you're not supposed to touch is where you would normally put your hand while holding the phone. That's like saying there is a design limitation in your car. Don't ever turn the steering wheel to the right and you'll have no problems. Oh, by the way this car has the best ride in history, as long as you don't have to make a right turn.

I always held the original iPhone from the bottom of the phone. I had to train myself to hold it differently. It is the same case here. In fact it is exactly the same. Hold the phone higher up and you will not have problems. A better analogy would be the car turns fine unless you try to steer it with your feet. Or maybe you are one of those one handed guys that goes through contortions to avoid putting your other hand on the wheel. You need one hand for those fast gear changes... even though you drive an automatic.
post #229 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Considering every iPhone is redesigned each year I guess your pretty safe on being able to claim victory on your prediction. Being pragmatic isn't a crime.

Yeah, and considering the small problem of its bad design.
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post #230 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Didn't Brain and Anand state that reception was indeed better on the iPhone 4?

With a case it's revolutionary.
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post #231 of 434
I use a case with mine so it's not the end of the world, BUT.....I have tested this phenomenon and visible bars have nothing to do with it. With my case on I get 2000kbps down and 1200kbps up. With my case off, holding the phone in the mid section, I get 250kbps down and around 100kbps up. Holding the phone in the "death grip" I get 0-50kbps down and 0-50kbps up! That is a huge problem for people who don't use a case. I can't believe apple is lying so badly about this problem. It speaks volumes.
post #232 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

So I can't help but wonder what the calibration for the 3GS was? Did they change the formula for the iPhone 4? If so, why? But if they were using the same calibration, then this software "fix" seems more of a coverup.

I'm in a wait-and-see mode before making any decision. Apple is correctly explaining the effect of attenuation when something (ie, your hand) blocks part of the signal. But that is a different effect than coming in direct contact with the antenna itself. Apple's explanations have so far completely ignored that issue.

We'll see...I'm in no hurry to run out and make a purchase. I'll let the rest of you be guinea pigs.

Of course they changed the calibration formula; they changed the antenna design. That is what calibrating is for.
post #233 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinite_entropy View Post

I finally gave up the ghost and coughed up $150 to AT&T for a MicroCell. For what it's worth, my iPhone now works great at home! Has my fanboyism gotten the better of me? Perhaps, but I'm happy and that's what matters.

Not that it matters since you have wifi access anyway, but does data over a micro-cell (presumably going over your network then) count against your data cap?
post #234 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

As a reminder, if you are not fully satisfied, you can return your undamaged iPhone to any Apple Retail Store or the online Apple Store within 30 days of purchase for a full refund.

Still waiting for 3gpro to retract their BS statements regarding Apple's return policy on the iPhone4.

The silence is deafening.
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post #235 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

I always held the original iPhone from the bottom of the phone. I had to train myself to hold it differently. It is the same case here. In fact it is exactly the same. Hold the phone higher up and you will not have problems. A better analogy would be the car turns fine unless you try to steer it with your feet. Or maybe you are one of those one handed guys that goes through contortions to avoid putting your other hand on the wheel. You need one hand for those fast gear changes... even though you drive an automatic.

Ya, except for watching the entire presentation on June 7th with Jobs holding the phone exactly the wrong way.
post #236 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

Still waiting for 3gpro to retract their BS statements regarding Apple's return policy on the iPhone4.

The silence is deafening.

It's great. I'm really happy they stated this in writing. It is different than their standard website written policy. Good news all around regarding this.
post #237 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

OK, let's review. There are 3 issues that may combine to produce call and signal issues:
  1. Attenuation caused by touching the antenna
  2. Complete data service intrruption caused by bridging the seam
  3. Misfuntioning of the proximity sensor

The promised update doesn't actually address any of these, although, it seems that it will more accurately reflect what's going on in relation to the first issue. However, I don't think this was ever really as big an issue as many thought it was.

The third issue, which is probably responsible for at least some "dropped calls", may be quietly addressed by a software update, and since it hasn't really been the focus of a lot of attention it's not too surprising that they haven't specifically mentioned it.

The second issue, which seems to be the most significant real issue, doesn't seem to be addressed at all. Since it doesn't affect all phones, I don't think it's a design issue, which leaves the possibility of some sort of manufacturing issue, which could be hardware (e.g., improper assembly) or software related (e.g., improper firmware version). It will be interesting to see if this issue goes away after the update, or remains as an actual problem. But, it doesn't seem particularly reassuring to me, and I'm sure not to iP4 owners afflicted by this issue, that it remains unaddressed through this announcement.

Well reasoned!

.
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post #238 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartBuzz View Post

Okay. Here's my story. I took my iPhone back to BestBuy and they refused to give me a full refund. They wouldn't refund the sales tax and they charged me the 10% restock fee. So Apple lied and I got screwed.

No they didn't. I'm lying. See how easy it is to spread stupidity at these websites? Can anyone really believe what they read here? I have read Apple's explanation at Apple.com and I will wait to hear from users what the iOS4 update did to mitigate the reception anomaly.

BTW...I don't have an iPhone because I'm one of those silly Verizon holdouts.

Even if it dd happen, Apple wasn't lying anyway. Their press release said nothing about returning your phone to Best Buy.

But you make a valid point - anybody can lie in a forum post. Especially when it involves individual experiences that cannot be verified. Heck, I could claim to be the King of Siam. But I am not...
post #239 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post

Ya, except for watching the entire presentation on June 7th with Jobs holding the phone exactly the wrong way.

The entire presentation was using WiFi and has nothing to do with this. And, oh, BTW, he was holding the iP4 in his right hand, 3GS in the left, although I'm sure the conspiracy theorists and trolls will try to make hay with that, too.
post #240 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Yeah, and considering the small problem of its bad design.

There you go again making sweeping accusations you can't back up with any facts or even anecdotal experiences. Do you even wonder why your biggest supporters on this forum now are ones that get banned on a regular basis?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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