Apple says iPhone 4 calculates bars wrong, software fix forthcoming - Page 7

Ouch... wonder how software will fix this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzn8QhrYIvI

This one is pretty condemning.... esp. w volume on.



And mine just got prepared for shipment from Shenzhen. Hope it's a one of the miraculously unaffected.

i hope this shuts up all the apple is doomed crowd
as many here said
a simple SW fix n 3 weeks
or simply return the phone for a palm pre

many people here kept their heads
many people here looked and still look real stupid


goodbye yellow brick road

go apple

9

Yes, Ireland, if you think there is a specific design flaw, build a case for it (no pun intended). Constant sniping in place of reason won't lead to anything positive.

It is illegal not to refund Sales Tax (In the US anyway). That can not simply keep your money because they want to. His story is pretty hard to believe. Best buy would not do something that weird. I might have believed him, but he added the sales tax thing for effect and blew his own story out of the water.

That's not true.

Uhm, he specifically stated that it wasn't true. His point was that anyone can write anything they want without regard for whether it's true or not. However, as you point out, people tend to give themselves away in lies, especially if they continue to expand on them.

Dude his statement of "More bars in more places" completely flew over your head didn't it.

Let me explain what he meant :P

Part of AT&T's slogan is "More bars in more places". Apple's erroneous formula was displaying more bars that it was actually suppose to display. Hence, he was making fun of apple's erroneous formula by saying ... I guess that's one way to get "More bars in more places"

You appear to have doubts about:

-- Apple and its commitment to customer support
-- the quality of the iPhone 4
-- their honesty, and intentions to address issues that arise

Why would you even consider buying an iPhone 4?

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The calculation and display of signal strength is something very basic, and simply to say that they have got that wrong is highly worrying, especially by Apples standards and on a product that has been heralded as revolutionary!

Somethings not right here!

Froyo is already out for the Nexus One. Do some research before spouting off.

BTW - I got a Droid Incredible to replace my iPhone 3G and I love it. Came very close to signing another contract with AT&T and I could not bring myself to do it. I have been walking around all over places where my iPhone was unusable and now I have 2-3 bars and can call or surf at leisure.

From today's headlines:

Apple can't fix iPhone reception, will start telling truth about signal strength
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/apple-...strength/36465

Apple's ludicrous iPhone 4 apology
http://blogs.computerworld.com/16457...hone_4_apology

Apple admits to over inflating iPhone 4 signal strength; Steve Jobs comes under heavy criticism
http://www.examiner.com/x-53781-US-H...eavy-criticism

The iPhone Reception Problem: Parsing the Apple Statement
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2010/07/...ple-statement/

My guess about Apple's secret formula in the iPhone reception deception
http://blogs.computerworld.com/16455...urce=rss_blogs


See also:

The ignominious fall of Dell
Dell may never recover from the revelation that it sold faulty PCs -- and then blamed its customers
http://infoworld.com/d/the-industry-...death-dell-882

Thanks for the advice! Guess I need to practice on my lying. But you got my point. One can say anything about anything to stir the pot.

Any thoughts as to why this letter wasn't attributed directly to Steve, instead of just "Apple?"

Now apple replied officially after replying to so many people (so called messages from steve jobs).

What will happen to truck loads of shit planned by the trollers, from other side of the universe separated by a black hole named "user experience" , to be dumped onto the press. What will happen to lawsuit , who will give them money now (maybe Nokia, Junka'rola etc ..,)

But, the trolls are angry, very angry as they understand the phone they carry is a piece of shit but are not able to convince themselves that it is.
Probably they do realize that it takes balls to accept a mistake publicly when a product is a couple weeks old only unlike nokia which took years for a battery recall
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/...-Click_her.php

Interesting... a bag of lemons.

I got a 1-day (early) iP4 on June 23. It has no problems.

I have 2 more that should ship today, and another 2 that ship in a couple of weeks. Two of these will be used for development (if can ever get off these forums).

It will be interesting to see and compare them to the current iP4, 3G and 3Gs that also don't experience any problems).

.

So I guess the take away here is that Apple is saying your reception has always sucked, they were just telling you it didn't?

I really don't see how this software fix solves anything other than reminding us how crappy AT&T is.

I didn't suggest any conspiracy theory. I have no idea what Apple knows. Either they have gotten to the bottom of the alleged reception issue or they haven't. But if they have, there is good reason to not announce it. I don't think what I said was anywhere near a bizarre scenario.

I knew it. I have been getting all around better network performance and call sound quality with my iPhone 4.

Good to know.

This is an unfortunate response coming from Apple. Based on the dozen or so anecdotal reports from individuals/bloggers/engineers that I've read, the half-dozen youtube videos I've seen, friends that I know first-hand experiencing the issue, and even quantitative testing from Anandtech.com, this issue does NOT appear to be a simple case of "signal bars" being display incorrectly. While a problem with the visual display of signal strength may account for the perceived loss of "bars" on the screen, it certainly cannot account for the real, detrimental effects people are experiencing.

Many of those affected report dropped calls, major reduction in data transfer speeds, and other immediate signs of actual, severe signal attenuation when holding their iPhones in a way that "bridges" the antennae.

At this point, I'm confused as to whether Apple is acting nefariously to spin and down-play a serious defect in the iPhone design, or if they literally cannot consistently reproduce the issue in testing. I do find the latter explanation hard to believe given the widespread customer reports of this problem. If so, and Apple is intentionally minimizing this issue and deceiving customers to save face (and $$$$ from recalls/repairs), shame on them.

I never had this problem with my iPhone 3G. And you'll notice in the video the signal strength is not poor in my area. It shows 3 Mbs down. Sometimes I get 4. But if I hold the phone, NO CONNECTION.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq4dfeSiOWw

Please! Stop! Telling a lie a thousand times doesn't make it the truth. Most of these stories come from sites that regularly attack Apple. And the third link continues to propagate those fake Steve Jobs emails.

Glad to see you recognize you were misspelling 'sewers.'

You may not prefer what they wrote, but which specific claims of fact can you demonstrate are untrue?


Actually, the third one is from the Examiner, which links to the uncontested exchange in which Jobs said "Just avoid holding it in that way" from more than a week earlier, and does not link to the BGR story.

You certainly are free to comment!

What many members come to AI for is a "reasonable discussion" of Apple products and issues (and maybe have a little fun).

What many object to is when someone posts, or repeats controversial assertions with nothing to to support those assertions.

Fifty thousand Frenchmen can't be wrong... sadly, yes they can!

And one problem (real or imagined) repeated fifty-thousand times is misleading.

If you have concerns, as many do, without experiencing them first-hand, then most would welcome a reasoned contribution to the discussion.

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Apple delivers inadequate response to iPhone 4 reception problems
http://blogs.computerworld.com/16458/apple_iphone_4

Apple's Crazy Open Letter Doesn't Even Address The Real Issue
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...sue-2010-7.DTL

Apple's embarrassing error
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereport...ing_error.html

Another bizarre turn with Apple's iPhone 4
Commentary: Ridiculous fix of a possible real antenna issue
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/app...ial-2010-07-02

Poking holes in Apple's iPhone 4 antenna explanation
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-20009564-266.html

Don't shoot the messenger.

In case you don't have any intention of replying again, I would ask you to reconsider. Your initial reply definitely has my attention as I cannot figure out what about my post you felt was bizarre or a conspiracy theory. Can you elaborate?

I am guessing that either...

...you are on Apple's side saying that it is a bizarre theory that they could have figured out the cause and would want to be dishonest and sneak the fix past customers.

Or

...you are against Apple and are saying that it couldn't possibly be a software issue, and that it has to be a hardware flaw that they aren't admitting to, and my thought that it could be resolved in software/firmware is utterly ridiculous.

Or is there a third explanation?
I'm just curious where you stand.

Just talked to a business development exec at Bayer MaterialScience(a division of Bayer). His specialty is coatings & adhesives. He thinks their urethane coatings are tailor made to coat the antenna and solve the problem. He said he will try to get his boss to contact Jobs, if they are at all receptive. Apple must surely be aware of this option, because urethanes are tough enough to handle the wear, whereas other coatings may not be.

Just to re-write your last point:

#2 is the issue Apple is apparently completely ignoring/denying. Their design exposes the antenna to direct contact, which affects antenna performance.

I suspect that Apple is doing quite a bit of investigating and testing of this issue since it is receiving so much bad press:

The fact that they haven't said anything about an "issue" with the antenna design, doesn't mean that they are ignoring or denying the "issue".

They could say "No Comment!"... and you know where that would lead.

Because of the supercharged legal, regulatory and political atmosphere; Apple needs to be very careful in how they handle this.

Saying nothing, until they have the facts, is one approach. Saying "we're looking into it" is another.

mås o menos!

It is what Apple does, is what counts!

8 days, guys... give 'em a chance to perform!

.

I would rather you prove to me what is true. There have been no "controlled" experiments. Only videos showing how to go from 5 bars to no service which Apple has admitted was probably a false reading of a weak signal. When you get into the noise level of a radio signal, it takes very little blockage to lose reception. Let's see what the users are reporting and what Apple is admitting after a month or two has passed.

And the "Don't hold it that way" email was a fake too. You have to stop believing everything you want to believe.

I'm going to avoid any comments one way or the other and just stick to the facts of my situation so here goes:

Bought an iPhone 4 on launch day. Stood in line for four hours to get it at the Apple store in Roseville, CA. Upgraded from a iPhone 3GS in the process...The 3GS has been passed to my girlfriend and replaced her old phone. I've had numerous dropped calls with my iPhone 4 since purchasing it. The phone has no case on it, just a screen protector as does the 3GS.

So today, I have both phones in front of me at the moment as I'm installing apps on the 3GS for my girlfriend. The iPhone 4 is showing 3 bars and the 3GS shows 4.

If I pick up the 3GS and hold it normally in my left hand and call my buddy (he is curious since he as a iPhone 4 on order) across town, everything works fine. Tried two calls on the 3GS so far with no issues.

Tried the same thing with the iPhone 4:

• Call #1 was fine and then started to break up so I moved my hand to hold the phone differently and it cleared up.
• Second call...dropped the call after about a minute.
• Tried a third call and this time, held the phone normally and sure enough, after about a minute, the call started to break up. Moved my hand and it cleared up. Moved my hand back to the way I hold it normally and it started to break up. I kept it here and about twenty seconds later, dropped the call.

My simple question is this...What would cause the difference between the two phones as far as reception goes?

That's it...I don't want to hear, buy a case since I'm testing both "caseless" at the moment and "return it to the store if you don't like it"...I like the iPhone 4 and want to keep it. On the other hand, "the iPhone 4 is crap" doesn't fly with me either...So, what could cause the issues I'm seeing with the iPhone4?

I believe Apple made an educated bet that the antenna design and present bar formula would actually serve users best--at least the vast majority of users. A bar formula was chosen that down-weights signal strength in favor of its consistency. When the antenna gap is untouched, signal strength alone isn't as much of an issue for the iPhone 4 as for other cell phones.

The antenna design is only an issue for people who don't use a case and who are in a low signal strength area and who hold the iPhone in their left hand with a mild constraint on precisely how the device is held. Surely Apple gathered statistics on these determinants to predict how much of a problem the overall system design would be.

The fact that prototypes were field tested disguised in cases didn't inform the statistics at all about how the phone is held, the usefulness of the bar formula in areas of low signal strength, or the consternation created when calls drop and data throughput plummets.

Changing the bar formula will alter user expectations, but it's a half-baked way of addressing a flawed out-of-box design. Apple should be giving away bumpers.

Really? ZDnet, WSJ? Unreputable sources? Not sure about computerworld but still, stop the appolies, my opinion of course, but i've never read anything from these two that has been 100% fabricated.

Of course you do. That would let you continue to learn nothing and just sit there dismissing the firsthand experiences of hundreds or possibly thousands of people around the world without having to lift a finger.

If you have a problem with anything those journalists wrote, each of them has provided contact info. I will not write your letters for you.


What is the URL to Apple's statement on that one?

This announcement is really worrying.

I have an iphone4 with bumper case.

I take the case off, test as described and my network bars fall away - however its not just the bars that fall away its the signal quality - my data throughput falls from 2.4Mb to 8k

That is not just a bar problem - something else is going on.

if I use the bumper the problem is made less severe - it does not go away completely. testing with the bumper case on the best throughput I recorded was 1.3Mb. That might be down to just network variation but I was sat in the same chair through all the testing and the movement in bars with the bumper on is visible to my eye as my hand is placed on and off the case.

The announcement is worrying because it suggests that Apple is going to use the signal bars to hide the problem rather than stick to their initial view - which is the same as mine. i.e. Yes, holding the phone in the way that crosses the connection will cause poor radio performance. Using a case helps. Holding the phone in another way does fix the problem. In fact in most other positions the signal reception is better than my previous 3GS Call quality is much better. I'd say that in the most part the phone works better as a phone and internet device. If I hold it in the way that doesn't work then it doesn't work as good. I will just hold it another way. Which really isn't that hard.

I am not generally an apple fanboy but I can put things into proportion - even with the problem the IP4 is a better phone than the 3GS and an iOS4 phone gives a user interface that I find preferable to other phone OSs . I'm happy with my iphone4 and I'd recommend them to others.

Emphasis mine!

"thousands"?

Can you reference thousands of individual failures-- or hundreds of failures repeated hundreds of times?


Out of, say, 3 million iP4s shipped:

-- 30,000 would be a failure rate of 1%
-- 3,000 would be a failure rate of .1%
-- 300 would be a failure rate of .01%

I would bet that the iP4 failures are somewhere between 300 and 3,000-- or a rate approaching .1%.

I don't know what the expected failure rate for this class of device is!

Anybody? Is 1% the norm? 10%?

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I wonder why the software bar-count calculation was wrong in the first place. Could it be that Apple intentionally exaggerated the signal strength (or maybe signal/noise ratio) and showed more bars in order to make AT&T look better? I wouldn't be surprised if Apple asked AT&T "What can we do to help your image? How about showing more bars?"

Having said that, AT&T has noticeably improved reception in my area. I've always been on the fringe of AT&T's coverage, but last year I saw an increase in both bar count and call reliability. My old iPhone 3G suddenly showed 5 bars in 3G and EDGE modes, and now my iPhone 4 does as well. (Except when I use the "death grip.")

That "Mark the Spot" app might have had something to do with the improvement. Just a few weeks after I marked my spot, reception and bar count got drastically better...

I would like to see a link to that. Thanks.

Just more opinions with no facts. It's so easy to play "what if" games and spout conspiracy theories without any technical or design knowledge. These people should stop trying to pretend their blogs represent valid news or reputable journalism.

You guys are funny.. any other company admits this, they would be buried. Secondly, you all accept this explanation?.. no one is suspicious of this explanation?. If you can't trust the algorithm they used in Iphone 4, how do you know it was true in iphone 3?. Wow, imagine HTC had done this, they would have been creamed!!!.. well done apple my ass!!

I think you are taking what he wrote too literally. Perhaps he meant the thousands that have complained in forums around the world.

Also, 'you would bet' on a rate approaching 0.1% based on what? (Especially considering you have no clue as indicated by the last sentence of your post).

You are normally a credible guy........