or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Apple says iPhone 4 calculates bars wrong, software fix forthcoming
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple says iPhone 4 calculates bars wrong, software fix forthcoming - Page 8

post #281 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandau View Post

i've never had an issue, the phone is the best i've every had. Design is amazing. Software is the best in the mobile business.

If you don't like it, take it back. Go get that froyo phone you've been secretly wanting all along. Well, you'll probably have to wait until 2012 since froyo is a vapor release.

+1...
post #282 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartBuzz View Post

Just more opinions with no facts.

Whether or not you're able to substantiate your discomfort with that reporting by disputing any specific claims of fact in those articles, one fact remains unquestionable: Apple's mishandling of this issue has resulted in a significant hit to their reputation.
post #283 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by gqb View Post

wow... The american school system really does produce illiterates, doesn't it?
What they're saying (and as those of us who actually have one in marginal reception areas have been saying) is that the display has been over-reporting strength in weak areas, making normal drops in the display look more dramatic.
Actual reception has been improved greatly.

I'm curious.. When you go to a restaurant, do you eat the menu instead of the actual food? Just wondering.

lol!

.
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #284 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Using the 3rd grade term 'fail' is a fail.
Return to beneath your bridge.

Yeah, I'd at least expect "Heck-a-Fail"

.
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #285 of 434
I see how this could be a software issue with the iPhone reporting the wrong bars and people going crazy (and it probably is) but that still doesn't explain how i can stop data transfer completely by holding my phone like this. how come i can drop calls just by doing this? if it was just an error in reported signal bars it shouldn't stop or slow data transfer!!!! ugh this is no fix for me, it just means ill be seeing less bars on my phone.
post #286 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

Whether or not you're able to substantiate your discomfort with that reporting by disputing any specific claims of fact in those articles, one fact remains unquestionable: Apple's mishandling of this issue has resulted in a significant hit to their reputation.

I agree that so far Apple is not handling this the way I would want. I am not surprised that there is no answer or resolution, as this type of investigation takes time. Where they went wrong I think is not making an announcement that they are looking into the situation. I think this is all that the practical consumer needed.

However, some of their "mis-handlings" have since proven to be those faked email responses from Steve. That definitely will influence people's opinion negatively going forward, and a lot of people will probably never learn that they were faked.
post #287 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

I wonder why the software bar-count calculation was wrong in the first place. Could it be that Apple intentionally exaggerated the signal strength (or maybe signal/noise ratio) and showed more bars in order to make AT&T look better? I wouldn't be surprised if Apple asked AT&T "What can we do to help your image? How about showing more bars?" ...

It's just as likely that they determined signal strength above a certain threshold made little or no difference in call quality, so, having 5 bars represent all signal strengths at or above that threshold allows your phone to give more information regarding changes in signal strength below that threshold with the remaining 5 bars (including 0) .

For example, if signal strength were measured on a scale of 0 to 100, and the values represented by the bars are equally distributed across the possible values, you get:

0 bars = 0 = no signal
1 bars = 1-20
2 bars = 21-40
3 bars = 41-60
4 bars = 61-80
5 bars = 81-100

But, if anything over 60 has equivalent call quality and you change the values to this:

0 bars = 0 = no signal
1 bars = 1-15
2 bars = 16-30
3 bars = 31-45
4 bars = 46-60
5 bars = 61-100

It gives you more information regarding how good you should expect call quality to be at a given location by having each bar below 5 represent finer gradations of signal strength.

I don't know if this is exactly what they were doing and how they were doing it, but it's not a completely off the wall way to approach it.
post #288 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by LikesToRead View Post

I'm sure there will be plenty of people who will complain about this too!

Considering Apple is WRONG, yes. This isn't about how many bars are displayed, it's about losing the call. Literally I can touch that spot and I will go from 5 bars to "No Service".
post #289 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

oh lol because he's being a troll right? By saying the obvious truth?

Do you even know what trolling is? It has nothing to do with trolls that live under bridges. Think of a fisherman trolling for fish.

Actually, it is either or both!

Guy's that live under bridges get to fish too!

Dictionary\t
troll 2
verb [ intrans. ]
1 fish by trailing a baited line along behind a boat : we trolled for mackerel.
search for something : a group of companies trolling for partnership opportunities.
2 [ trans. ] sing (something) in a happy and carefree way : troll the ancient Yuletide carol.
3 [ trans. ] informal Computing send (an e-mail message or posting on the Internet) intended to provoke a response from the reader by containing errors.
4 [with adverbial of direction ] chiefly Brit. walk; stroll : we all trolled into town.
noun
1 the action of trolling for fish.
a line or bait used in such fishing.
2 informal Computing an e-mail message or posting on the Internet intended to provoke an indignant response in the reader.
DERIVATIVES
troller noun
ORIGIN late Middle English (in the sense stroll, roll ): origin uncertain; compare with Old French troller wander here and there (in search of game) and Middle High German trollen stroll.

Thesaurus\t
noun
the storybook trolls who live under the bridge: goblin, hobgoblin, gnome, demon, monster, bugaboo, ogre.

.
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #290 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Presmabley you were able to get the replacement befoe Mon/Tues of this week as they now aren't giving anyone replacements for this issue. I think what happened to you is likely to happen to me too, but I'm going to get a replacement just in case it does actually improve it.

This may sound S/W, If the indicator is tied to send an event to the applications using the Data channel then differing strengths might cause your downloads to change or stop. Try sending data when scanning a Wifi channel similarly if the searching for network starts in background it should stop all data services ideally. If blocking the antennae causes drop in the signal then channel scans will be longer anyway.
post #291 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinite_entropy View Post

I finally gave up the ghost and coughed up $150 to AT&T for a MicroCell. For what it's worth, my iPhone now works great at home! Has my fanboyism gotten the better of me? Perhaps, but I'm happy and that's what matters.

I bought a MicroCell about two months ago, but the phone would still drop calls on 3G. I then went and had the phone replaced under Apple Care and the new one was dropping calls, too. Maybe I was just holding the phone wrong
post #292 of 434
Have the released the "formula" for just iPhone 4 or are they going to release it for the 3GS as well so they can be compared?
post #293 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Humans are funny creatures. If I tell a client I have altered some code in their web site often they suddenly get problems, they are convinced are due to the changes ... even when I haven't made any changes...

I've experienced that from my clients, too. With the iPhone 4, do we have more dropped calls, or are the dropped calls just more noticeable because the antenna design is so different? I haven't seen a controlled test but someone must be working on that.

In any case, I hope the software revision at least makes it more clear what's happening. I found a spot in my house last night where bridging the two metal bands with the lightest touch of one finger made the bars drop from 5 to 1. That's the first time I had seen any of this on my phone. But I could still make, sustain and receive calls with no noticeable loss of quality. So at least getting the signal display to match what's really happening better (a minimal reduction, in my case) would be a step in the right direction for those of you with actual connection problems.

If I were dropping calls, though, I'd just return the thing. My old phone wasn't that bad. Wait until the next revision and then try again.

By the way, I found the part in Apple's letter about making the shorter bars a little taller to be amusingly Orwellian.
post #294 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I find this to be absolutely hilarious.

If this isn't the most obvious lie and the most facile cover-up of said lie in Apple's entire history I don't know what is. They (and especially Steve Jobs), often bend the truth a bit but they rarely outright lie like this.

It also sounds like valley girl talk. "Dood! we totally didn't notice! Srsly!"

What's really "stunning" is that we are supposed to believe that they have been doing this since the very inception of the iPhone and never noticed it? Riiiight.

Yeah, it is funny!

They should have said: they were "shocked" to discover...

.
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #295 of 434
http://gizmodo.com/5577812/why-apple...eption-problem

If you have specific issues with any of the claims made in the article, contact the author.

If you can't demonstrate any factual basis for dismissing the specifics of the article but want to complain about it anyway, by all means that's what AI is for.
post #296 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

Of course you do. That would let you continue to learn nothing and just sit there dismissing the firsthand experiences of hundreds or possibly thousands of people around the world without having to lift a finger.

If you have a problem with anything those journalists wrote, each of them has provided contact info. I will not write your letters for you.


What is the URL to Apple's statement on that one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I would like to see a link to that. Thanks.

Here's the link http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/24/...h-a-non-issue/

I imagine you've seen this. My contention is that Steve Jobs never meant "Avoid holding it that way" as his complete answer. The follow-up clarified his first reply. Paraphrasing, Apple said to avoid covering the lower portion of the iPhone if you experience reception problems. It should be obvious that SJ was referring to weak signals. We all know that blocking a radio signal can interfere with reception, especially if the signal is near the low end. What SJ probably wasn't aware of when he commented was the problem Apple discovered with the false indication of a weak signal being a strong signal.

I apologize if my interpretation differs from yours. But all of these negative stories that have proliferated the blogs have become tiresome. Don't get me wrong. I want Apple to fix any and all problems with the iPhone since I hope to get one thru Verizon. I know...wishful thinking.
post #297 of 434
Really? Only 300 posts on this thread so far? When I saw the headline I was sure the entire Apple-Is-Evil crowd would go berserk and descend on this thread in numbers to jam the AI server. Guess this counts as a win for Apple.
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
Reply
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
Reply
post #298 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartBuzz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll
What is the URL to Apple's statement on that one?

Here's the link http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/24/...h-a-non-issue/

From the link:

Quote:
Steve Jobs has been known to respond to emails and we were able to log into Samcraig's email account to verify the authenticity of the emails, so we believe these are real.
post #299 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

Considering Apple is WRONG, yes. This isn't about how many bars are displayed, it's about losing the call. Literally I can touch that spot and I will go from 5 bars to "No Service".

Seems to me your comment is only about bars being displayed.

Where you used to go from 5 bars to no service, you will now go from 1 or 2 bars to no service. Apple is fixing the perceptual problem of completely dropping service in an erroneously reported 5 bar service area. It is less surprising to have a call fail with 1 bar service vs 5 bar service.

What really matters is how well the phone works in comparison to other phones in the same location.
post #300 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I think you are taking what he wrote too literally. Perhaps he meant the thousands that have complained in forums around the world.

Certainly not here.

A couple of days ago, my class/lab did a count on one forum in which in the first 240 blogs, 30 of them were posted by two of the most vocal anti-Apple/Mac members and who didn't own the iPhone 4. Much of the negativism came from the same non-user.

What was equally interesting was the fact that with one exception, in all the reported 'expert reviews' there wasn't a mention or it was not a concern re 'dropped calls' while observing a drop in bars. Only later in the days did there appear to be issues re dropped calls. But again, the most vocal appeared to be coming primarily from those who did not have an iPhone 4 and even more surprising, any other iPhone.
post #301 of 434
I have found a website and forum for people interested in Appley things on which the members treat each other with respect, do not name-call, they collaborate on getting facts straight, and bring useful expertise and insights to the matters under discussion. Civility and intelligence are the rule of the day. I would love to tell you where it is, but that would only lead the hordes of trolls which bedevil other sites to it. Membership is restricted and rules are rigorously enforced. It's heaven. I may never post anywhere else again.
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
Reply
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
Reply
post #302 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartBuzz View Post

Here's the link http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/24/...h-a-non-issue/

I imagine you've seen this. My contention is that Steve Jobs never meant "Avoid holding it that way" as his complete answer. The follow-up clarified his first reply. Paraphrasing, Apple said to avoid covering the lower portion of the iPhone if you experience reception problems. It should be obvious that SJ was referring to weak signals. We all know that blocking a radio signal can interfere with reception, especially if the signal is near the low end. What SJ probably wasn't aware of when he commented was the problem Apple discovered with the false indication of a weak signal being a strong signal.

I apologize if my interpretation differs from yours. But all of these negative stories that have proliferated the blogs have become tiresome. Don't get me wrong. I want Apple to fix any and all problems with the iPhone since I hope to get one thru Verizon. I know...wishful thinking.

That wasn't your original contention. It wasn't a matter of interpretation. You said:
Quote:
And the "Don't hold it that way" email was a fake too. You have to stop believing everything you want to believe.

Now, in this post, you acknowledge it was real and not fake but try to cover up your error by saying it is a matter of interpretation. That is either dishonest or delusional.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #303 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

I have found a website and forum for people interested in Appley things on which the members treat each other with respect, do not name-call, they collaborate on getting facts straight, and bring useful expertise and insights to the matters under discussion. Civility and intelligence are the rule of the day. I would love to tell you where it is, but that would only lead the hordes of trolls which bedevil other sites to it. Membership is restricted and rules are rigorously enforced. It's heaven. I may never post anywhere else again.

Would love to join you.
post #304 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

I have found a website and forum for people interested in Appley things on which the members treat each other with respect, do not name-call, they collaborate on getting facts straight, and bring useful expertise and insights to the matters under discussion. Civility and intelligence are the rule of the day. I would love to tell you where it is, but that would only lead the hordes of trolls which bedevil other sites to it. Membership is restricted and rules are rigorously enforced. It's heaven. I may never post anywhere else again.

Careful. Last time people started talking about alternative forums, we ended up with AppleNova and the Great Splintering.
(or was it ai.org first?)


RIP LoCash

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #305 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

I have found a website and forum for people interested in Appley things on which the members treat each other with respect, do not name-call, they collaborate on getting facts straight, and bring useful expertise and insights to the matters under discussion. Civility and intelligence are the rule of the day. I would love to tell you where it is, but that would only lead the hordes of trolls which bedevil other sites to it. Membership is restricted and rules are rigorously enforced. It's heaven. I may never post anywhere else again.

I found one like that too, it was called "MacRumours" but then after a few years it turned into a poo-soaked heck-hole of juvenile ranting. Then I found another great site called "AppleInsider" and I thought I had lucked out again, but sure enough a few years later ... same thing.

Some don't even last that long. There is one called the AppleBlog that was fantastic for about a week after it opened. Even Ars is full of juvenile ravings and fan-boy articles now although they still have good long reviews.

MacNN is probably still the best bet for reasoned, factual, logical (but unfortunately short), articles with a minimum of raving comments.
post #306 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

That wasn't your original contention. It wasn't a matter of interpretation. You said:


Now, in this post, you acknowledge it was real and not fake but try to cover up your error by saying it is a matter of interpretation. That is either dishonest or delusional.

Thanks for pointing that out. The sarcastic "Don't hold it like that" statement that first hit the headlines probably made me delusional. What irritated me was the incomplete story of what Apple actually acknowledged. I should have said "misleading" instead of "fake."
post #307 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

This is an unfortunate response coming from Apple. Based on the dozen or so anecdotal reports from individuals/bloggers/engineers that I've read, the half-dozen youtube videos I've seen, friends that I know first-hand experiencing the issue, and even quantitative testing from Anandtech.com, this issue does NOT appear to be a simple case of "signal bars" being display incorrectly. While a problem with the visual display of signal strength may account for the perceived loss of "bars" on the screen, it certainly cannot account for the real, detrimental effects people are experiencing.

Many of those affected report dropped calls, major reduction in data transfer speeds, and other immediate signs of actual, severe signal attenuation when holding their iPhones in a way that "bridges" the antennae.

At this point, I'm confused as to whether Apple is acting nefariously to spin and down-play a serious defect in the iPhone design, or if they literally cannot consistently reproduce the issue in testing. I do find the latter explanation hard to believe given the widespread customer reports of this problem. If so, and Apple is intentionally minimizing this issue and deceiving customers to save face (and $$$$ from recalls/repairs), shame on them.

I suspect Apple found, and is fixing a real issue -- the most widespread issue, the loss of bars.

I suspect that Apple intends that their announcement will deflect some of the wild criticism, and buy them some time to determine if the other reported issues are prevalent, and to determine a course of action to resolve them.

For discussion purposes, let's assume, worst case, that there is a design flaw with the antenna, which requires a redesign to fix.

If that were the case, the iP4 would need to be redesigned, tested, etc. and re-submitted to the FCC for re-approval. That could take months.

At that point, when they understand the issue and its resolution, Apple could initiate a recall/replacement process and/or give the consumer an option for some type of compensation.

Valid problems/defects or not, Apple needs to take a very measured approach to resolving the "issue".

As others have said, we'll know in 3-4 weeks... meanwhile: Obladi Oblada!

Their is way too much at stake, here, than to brush it under the rug.

.
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #308 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by juan370Z View Post

This is complete bull**** I have 3 iPhone 4 and two of them suffer problems and the otherone dosent so it can't be signal issues. Is hardware issues. Wtf

Helllllooo!!! Comments like the one above, should be the highest rated, and people like juan370Z and the Engadget team who also have some phones with no issue, and phones with the issue, should do some more thorough testing.

If some phone in fact does not have this problem, then it is not a construction error, but a production error on some of the phones. Only people who has more than one iPhone 4, where one has reception issues and one does not should be allowed to talk on this issue, the rest is just noise!

If it in fact should turn out to be a construction error, then I made this hardware upgrade suggestion to Apple:





Best regards
Kim Neeper Rasmussen

Ultimate Photorealism
post #309 of 434
The irony of Apple's statement is that it essentially puts the spotlight back on AT&T's network. Basically they're saying that our phone doesn't have a problem, you're just getting a crappy signal from AT&T.
post #310 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Interesting... a bag of lemons.

I got a 1-day (early) iP4 on June 23. It has no problems.

I have 2 more that should ship today, and another 2 that ship in a couple of weeks. Two of these will be used for development (if can ever get off these forums).

It will be interesting to see and compare them to the current iP4, 3G and 3Gs that also don't experience any problems).

.

Wish we could say the same! We only upgraded 4 of our 20 something iPhones to iPhone 4. So far, the situation is:

3 get great reception. One gets spotty. One has a dead speakerphone, one with a severe crackling when on a call and the last has no reported issues, but she has been in GA all week and I haven't called.

Having ample 3Gs around helped push the network issue quickly through Apple support. They kept saying, take the case off cause it interferes with the antenna, don't hold it at the bottom and I was performing their requested steps while it was laying on the table naked next to a 3Gs with case on performing great. Again, nothing antenna related IMHO, just hardware issue.

I put an end to iPhone 4 upgrades for the time being. We are going to wait for ventilated cases and the frenzy to die down so we get to the typical Apple quality standard.
post #311 of 434
I just recorded a video accessing 3G data on my iPhone 4 before and after holding it in my left hand. Instead of just looking at the reception indicator, I used speed test apps to see if the 3G signal is affected. It completely lost all 3G reception.

YouTube link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqe0tBuBR20
post #312 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Actually, it is either or both!

Guy's that live under bridges get to fish too!

Dictionary\t
troll 2
verb [ intrans. ]
1 fish by trailing a baited line along behind a boat : we trolled for mackerel.
search for something : a group of companies trolling for partnership opportunities.
2 [ trans. ] sing (something) in a happy and carefree way : troll the ancient Yuletide carol.
3 [ trans. ] informal Computing send (an e-mail message or posting on the Internet) intended to provoke a response from the reader by containing errors.
4 [with adverbial of direction ] chiefly Brit. walk; stroll : we all trolled into town.
noun
1 the action of trolling for fish.
a line or bait used in such fishing.
2 informal Computing an e-mail message or posting on the Internet intended to provoke an indignant response in the reader.
DERIVATIVES
troller noun
ORIGIN late Middle English (in the sense stroll, roll ): origin uncertain; compare with Old French troller wander here and there (in search of game) and Middle High German trollen stroll.

Thesaurus\t
noun
the storybook trolls who live under the bridge: goblin, hobgoblin, gnome, demon, monster, bugaboo, ogre.

.


LOL! No, it's not both! It doesn't make sense to say someone is trolling and have the meaning stem from trolls that live under bridges! Trolling for replies and comments like a boat trolling for fish makes much more sense.

But whatever, who the hell cares anymore. Around here you get called a troll if you offer an opinion that's different than what the majority of people have, and that's just the way it is
post #313 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldbeab View Post

The irony of Apple's statement is that it essentially puts the spotlight back on AT&T's network. Basically they're saying that our phone doesn't have a problem, you're just getting a crappy signal from AT&T.

That's the whole point of PR. Sun Tsu would have been a business man today.

PS: Jobs intelligently did the same thing with Blu-ray back in 2008. He squarely put the blame on the complex Bu-ray licensing. While that was truthful and easily verifiable, it wasn't the whole truth and surely not the main reason for their lack of adoption of Blu-ray. There were two more important reasons:
  1. They could have added AACS support to Mac OS X long ago so users could attach their own BRDs to play protected content, but the blue-laser war gave internet-based media the opportunity it needed and Apple then focused on that.
  2. The cost of BRDs for Macs is considerably more costly than pretty much every model of PC sold by competitors since Apple uses 9.5mm Ultra-Slim Slot-Loading drives in all but the Mac Pro. I don't I saw 9.5mm Tray-Loading BRDs until just a year ago, and those are still $500-600 for an upgrade from Dell and HP.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #314 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

LOL! No, it's not both! It doesn't make sense to say someone is trolling and have the meaning stem from trolls that live under bridges! Trolling for replies and comments like a boat trolling for fish makes much more sense.

But whatever, who the hell cares anymore. Around here you get called a troll if you offer an opinion that's different than what the majority of people have, and that's just the way it is

Trolling is for those clearly trying to wreak havoc on the thread. I often disagree with Dick Applebaum but I'd never consider his well thought out and balanced posts trolling even when I don't agree with his PoV.

Your posts tend to jump to conclusions and making sweeping generalizations without being backed up with a solid argument where I can see how others wold call you troll, but as you've seen in the past, I've disagreed with them. I do think you have viable info to share so I do wish you'd check your emotions at the door.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #315 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

LOL! No, it's not both! It doesn't make sense to say someone is trolling and have the meaning stem from trolls that live under bridges! Trolling for replies and comments like a boat trolling for fish makes much more sense. ...

Well, it does make sense if you consider that the image that most people have of internet trolls is that they are similar in character to the troll that lives under the bridge, thus the extension of meaning fits aptly. Language can be a wonderful thing if you don't try to keep it in a straitjacket.
post #316 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by shapesNforms View Post

I'm going to avoid any comments one way or the other and just stick to the facts of my situation so here goes:

Bought an iPhone 4 on launch day. Stood in line for four hours to get it at the Apple store in Roseville, CA. Upgraded from a iPhone 3GS in the process...The 3GS has been passed to my girlfriend and replaced her old phone. I've had numerous dropped calls with my iPhone 4 since purchasing it. The phone has no case on it, just a screen protector as does the 3GS.

So today, I have both phones in front of me at the moment as I'm installing apps on the 3GS for my girlfriend. The iPhone 4 is showing 3 bars and the 3GS shows 4.

If I pick up the 3GS and hold it normally in my left hand and call my buddy (he is curious since he as a iPhone 4 on order) across town, everything works fine. Tried two calls on the 3GS so far with no issues.

Tried the same thing with the iPhone 4:
  • Call #1 was fine and then started to break up so I moved my hand to hold the phone differently and it cleared up.
  • Second call...dropped the call after about a minute.
  • Tried a third call and this time, held the phone normally and sure enough, after about a minute, the call started to break up. Moved my hand and it cleared up. Moved my hand back to the way I hold it normally and it started to break up. I kept it here and about twenty seconds later, dropped the call.

My simple question is this...What would cause the difference between the two phones as far as reception goes?

That's it...I don't want to hear, buy a case since I'm testing both "caseless" at the moment and "return it to the store if you don't like it"...I like the iPhone 4 and want to keep it. On the other hand, "the iPhone 4 is crap" doesn't fly with me either...So, what could cause the issues I'm seeing with the iPhone4?


First, a question: Is the 3GS running iOS 4, too?


Couple of possibilities:

-- you have an instance of a defective phone that a replacement would resolve
-- there is a hardware design defect
-- there is a software defect* that can be resolved by an update

* this one can be a toughie, because it could be in the way the drivers recognize signal strength, decide when to hand off to a stronger (slower?) signal, and actually accomplishing the switchover. When you are working at this level, it is kind of a never-land... not quite hardware, not quite software.


If I were to guess, I say, in this order:

-- defective iPhone
-- software defect (or a hardware issue that can be fixed by software)**
-- design defect (or as some say: Hecka-Fail)

** Back in the early days you usually were correct guessing a hardware bug. With the state-of-the-art electronics many former hardware features are partially implemented in software-- one advantage of this is to be able to resolve many "hardware problems" by changing the "software". For example, they could, likely, change the CPU speed (clocking) with a software patch. This could be used to reduce overheating, conserve battery. The Cell radio chips, likely, can be tweaked by software, too.

In the iP4 you have much more compute power than you have in a 10 year old iMac... plus GPU, GPS, radio chips, manometers, etc..

There is a lot of complexity here, and many places to look for problems and solutions-- it takes time to localize the problem, identify resolution, and implement a "fix"

If Apple has done their job, there will very little "hardware" in the iP4 that can't be tweaked to resolve problems.

.
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #317 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Careful. Last time people started talking about alternative forums, we ended up with AppleNova and the Great Splintering.
(or was it ai.org first?)


RIP LoCash

Even I haven't been around for that event in AI history. Maybe you should write up a "history of" and ask the mods to create an About Us link at the top.

Edit: Just check Wiki and found out what I needed to know.
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
Reply
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
Reply
post #318 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I think you are taking what he wrote too literally. Perhaps he meant the thousands that have complained in forums around the world.

Also, 'you would bet' on a rate approaching 0.1% based on what? (Especially considering you have no clue as indicated by the last sentence of your post).

You are normally a credible guy........

I worded that wrong-- I should have said between 300 and 3,000 or a rate between .01% and .1%.

As to why I'd bet-- I have no experience with this class of device & was trying to get people with experience to give us some reasonable expectations.

Back in the 1970s-1980s, when we owned the computer stores, we set a policy to burn in everything for 24 hours minimum (Apple ][, Mac, IBM P/C, hard drives, etc)...

Various devices had various expected failure rates-- with the burn-in policy, we could isolate our customers from the electronic crib-deaths that were fairly common in that era.

Now, and again, we would need to override our policy because the customer wanted an unopened box!


So, BOT, just SWAGging it would guess that consumer electronics of this class have a normal failure rate of between .01% and .1%.


Help!

,
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #319 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

Whether or not you're able to substantiate your discomfort with that reporting by disputing any specific claims of fact in those articles, one fact remains unquestionable: Apple's mishandling of this issue has resulted in a significant hit to their reputation.

We're only in the first inning... it's a 9-inning game.

Handled right (especially if there is a real problem), Apple could enhance their reputation!

There may be a real opportunity here...

.
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #320 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Have the released the "formula" for just iPhone 4 or are they going to release it for the 3GS as well so they can be compared?

Ahhh... from the article:

Quote:

We will issue a free software update within a few weeks that incorporates the corrected formula. Since this mistake has been present since the original iPhone, this software update will also be available for the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 3G.

....tick....tick.....tick....tick....

.
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Apple says iPhone 4 calculates bars wrong, software fix forthcoming