Apple says iPhone 4 calculates bars wrong, software fix forthcoming - Page 11

You're sure, but you don't really know or have a list ready for the 88 countries the iPhone will be sold in summer? \

Of course there are other regulatory bodies for RF. The fact is and will remain, unless China sales step up, that the US is the single largest buyer of iPhones, always first on Apple's list which is a company from the US, and more readers on this site are from the US than anywhere else so you can include whatever FCC equivalent for the country you wish but I'm not going to scour the internet looking for all their names and the average turn around time for retesting.

It's a valid comment as to way it might take weeks for Apple to issue an update. No more no or no less has to read into it.

For what it's worth, I was in an Apple retail store today and could not cause any of the iP4s that I was able to get my hands on to lose signal by bridging the seam.

How do you know they haven't? It seems that when there are specific HW problems reported, engineering will put out the word, at least with AppleCare reps that they want equipment exhibiting a particular issue and those devices/systems will go straight to them until they feel they have enough, at which point they will tell them they don't need any more. I've had them do express pickups on DOA Mac Pros for this reason, and other times the AppleCare reps checked and said, no, they have enough, so we'll just do a regular return. I'd be stunned if they haven't rounded up a bunch of the units that lose all signal from the seam bridging issue.

Sure it looks like a conspiracy - thing is all phones lie about reception and I'm getting the impression that it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Meaning Apple lied to cover ATT's problem, then improved the antenna - only to screw up by not coating it and shipping it on the outside. Now they're trying to show the antenna is actually better which means reporting the correct signal.

What gets me about this whole thing is that some people can touch the lower left and not get the lost calls that AnandTech.com demonstrated in his test.

It won't happen at an Apple or ATT store (I tried). However, mine dropped downloading altogether within one block of both stores, and was repeatable, just with one finger on the left seam.

re-reading AnandTech they say the 24Db drop only matters in a low signal area - still some people in a low signal area are saying they get better reception with the ip4 than the ip3g - so who knows

Just found this...make of it what you wish...

BGR: Apple Is Wrong, That Steve Jobs Email Exchange Was Real

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/...tory-its-real/

why the hell did they not mix up the speaks/sound to the side, move the sync/charging slot over and have the antenna on the bottom

this probably will get some rage, but do you really need it to be centered? this would solve the reception (unless you hold your phone with a finger on the bottom) for most people
while allowing them to keep a superior antenna?

ofc Apple changing something to be NONE SYMMETRICAL AND NOT CENTERED is unlikely

it was fine for 2nd G nano however http://www.images.appleinsider.com/i...gen-shot20.jpg

It's certainly not summer here



All I'm saying is that waiting FCC approval might be make sense if there was only region in which things would be sold. I don't recall Apple ever making a region specific iPhone update so for this kind of thought process to make sense, then every other regulatory body would have to be involved, depending on how stringent such process are in other markets. If indeed FCC is the reason, then clearly Apple would need to consider how such approvals would or would not be required in other markets.

Hence, I think its a very narrow view to take.

Couple of things:

1) I am not a regular follower of the site and thus not aware of any journalistic reputation, biases, etc. whether they be objective, pro or anti Apple.

2) I normally don't pay much attention to this type of story, email exchanges, because they are easy to spoof and difficult to prove. Without some context and background of the individuals involved it is difficult to determine whether there is a hidden motive or agenda.

3) The page you cited appeared to be more about them (the web site) defending themselves and their prior story, than the story, itself.

4) I read a few of the comments to the page you cited and they seemed to be divided-- some strongly pro Apple, some strongly anti- Apple, some objective... prolly a normal mix

One comment in particular caught my eye:


That piqued my interest so I looked around for the original article:

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/...enna-problems/

To get a feel for what Emery was saying, look at the content of the emails attributed to Steve Jobs (to focus, I have only provided the emails attributed to Steve and removed the other side of the conversation)


The line below, apparently, was attributed to Steve Jobs in the original BGR article. The BGR article has been updated and now attributes the comment to "Tom" the other side of the email conversation. Apparently, this is the line causing the controversy, and the one Peter Emery refers to in his comment (above): "Without that final line, the conversation isnt particularly notable...".

Here's the line, now attributed to Tom, originally attributed to Steve:



In the interest of completeness, I have copy/pasted the entire [updated] conversation below. I did not include the email headers added in the 2nd update to the article:


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I surely hope they have! (It's a pretty basic concept.)

I do think we would have heard more if they had, however. The way Apple keeps blaming the user and so on just makes people suspicious. I think it would be more useful if they took a different approach.

P.S. When the company denies things that a lot of people have seen "up close and personal" the company's credibility in all things suffers terribly.

this is an interesting article written by an antenna design consultant...

... worth a look.

There have been reports in these forums of it happening at Apple stores.

What exactly has Apple blamed users for? And what exactly have they denied that others have seen?

There are a couple of issues with the iP4 (and a couple of non-issues), and although Apple hasn't made any statements acknowledging these issues, they also haven't made any statements denying them, or blaming users for them.

The uproar over the display of bars is much ado about nothing. Apple made a decision to display the bars in a way that was not an analog of signal strength. Despite the claims of some that this was a dishonest fraud to make Apple and/or AT&T look better, there has been no evidence that this is the case, just conspiracy theory logic. It seems much more likely and plausible that the bars were set to display as they did because with previous iPhones this worked better as an indicator of call quality than signal strength alone does. But, this particular way of displaying the bars doesn't work as well on the iP4 because of properties of the antenna, so now they are changing it to signal strength so that when it's held, you won't usually see a change in the bars because now they will be strictly analogous to signal strength. Not really a big deal. The only difference is that the signal drop you see from holding the phone by the antenna won't seem as large in some instances, because it isn't as large as it seemed.

EDIT: I will also say that Apples PR hasn't been good on both the issues and non-issues in this case, and that the phrasing in the 'letter" was, in a word, stupid.

The OP mentioned the FCC. It's silly for me to mention every other regulatory board in a reply saying that might be what is happening. It's understood that other countries and groups of countries have their own regulations. This was never in question, we didn't forget about you.

Your comment about it not being Summer is a perfect example of these silly contretemps. Even Steve Jobs has used the Northern Hemisphere seasons to denote time frames that wouldn't apply to you, but you still understand what is being said and aren't confused by an American* company making that statement.

* Since the USA is the only country that has America in its name and it's clear that I wasn't making a sweeping statement covering the Western Hemisphere, referring to the US as America is acceptable. Or is it (rhetorical)?

I am sorry, but this has been covered before in great detail. Apple blames the user for hold the phone "wrong", among other things, notwithstanding the fact that Apple commercials show the phone being held in exactly the same manner they now complain is wrong.

The issue is not, I repeat, NOT, the number of bars displayed. It is about dropped calls. Your continued focus on the number of bars displayed is irrelevant to the matter at hand. The only reason anyone refers to the number of bars displayed in their observations or complaints is to describe what happens before signal is lost and the call dropped.

... It's certainly not acceptable to we, the Vespucci family... We are proud Italians!

Now, if you pronounce it as: EM-MURR-AKA (or just MURR-AKA), then we're OK!

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Wasn't it a single email to a single user that has been taken out of context to mean no one ever hold their iPhone in a normal fashion under any condition, as witnessed by Ireland's pic?

As pointed out, all devices can suffer from attenuation so their documentation universally — or nearly universally — states that you shouldn't block the antenna.

What shouldn't be happening is a complete and instant drop the moment you touch the 3G-Spot. That is not normal behaviour and I'm glad isn't affecting my iPhone.

Just for the record, it's actually highly offensive in many parts of the world to refer to the USA as "America," and the reason is because actually all of North America, Central America, and Soth America have "America" in their name.

So while its true that no other country has "America" in the name, it's a direct insult to the millions and millions of "Americans" living in South America and Central America particularly to refer to US citizens as "Americans."

I've been told this numerous times by various different South Americans over the years anyway.

I don't know what your problem is understanding what has been said other than you don't agree, for whatever reason. So...good bye.

It's simple. I don't think one email to one user should be attributed to all users for all issues.

I hope this BGR jason Burton issue has made Jobs rethink sending emails to people outside of official channels that are sure to publicized. The potential harm is clear, as evidenced by this email which has been taken out of context over and over again.

Agreed.

Like I've been saying for months, if advice from senior counsel isn't enough to get Jobs to use a little restraint with his email, perhaps another dressing down from the Board will do it.

Yeah, I hear ya'.

I spent some time in Peru and they referred to me as a gringo-- they said it was not meant to disparage, and I believe them However, gringo has quite a different meaning on the US southern border or in a US Hispanic ghetto.

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Not only does Apple have a great Marketing team but a good Legal team. My ? is why it takes the best iPhone to admit the wrong formula was used.

+1

The issues here are not complicated:

1. Apple created a phone with an exposed antenna. They either did not apply a protective coating, or misapplied it on some or all iPhones. It is common knowledge that an exposed antenna when touched will attenuate the signal
2. Apple did make substantial improvements in overall reception. Those improvements are in large part nullified by (1) above.
3. Apple also decided selling bumpers was a good idea, for the first time. They also disabled the ability to measure actual signal strength. Both suggestbut don't provethat they knew they had a problem on their hands.
4. Apple's PR has been subpar.
5. Their software fix for the signal strength display problem will do nothing to improve reception. The fact it will take a few weeks for this software fix suggests they will also try to address the antenna problem via software. I don't know if that is possible. Even if they do, they will not announce that part of the SU.
6. Recalling all the iPhones sold to apply a coating to the antenna is prohibitively expensive. Giving away a black bumper for black iPhones and a white bumper for the upcoming white version would take care of the issue for now, and regain customer goodwill.
7. Apple is almost certainly altering iPhones currently being assembled so that the antenna is protected from contact with skin. Finding the best, cost-effective antenna coating will take some time. They probably will not announce this modification publicly. Most consumer electronic companies don't, for legal and other reasons.
8. Apple should extend their warranty and allow returns at no charge until their software fix has been released. They are admitting to this defect, after all. AT&T should also waive the restocking charge, as should all other retailers who are selling the new iPhone. Apple should be willing to absorb the restocking fee for all resellers.
9. For those who sold or otherwise disposed of their current phone to buy the new iPhone and are unhappy with it...well, part of that responsibility is yours. If your business depends on it, return the phone and buy a 3GS (if you want Apple) or any other phone, and wait for the release of the software fix. You can then decide, once it's out and tested by third parties, whether you want to buy the new iPhone again. If you don't, there are many many alternative choices on At&T and other carriers.
10. For those who have iPhones on order, cancel the order. That's what I did with my iPhone order for four iPhones. Do you really want to gamble on $200 or $300, and more importantly, the value of your time if the phone does not meet your expectations? Alternatively, budget for a bumper or case of some kind to nullify the antenna problem.
11. The BOD for Apple should ask Jobs to stop responding to emails; the same applies to those who answer emails for him. This is a business decision. Most of the email responses have been a bit condescending, and that is bad PR and could a) affect the share price and b) further jeopardize Apple's legal strategy when dealing with lawsuits.
12. For those who want to try out the new iPhone, Apple should (as in the past) report stock availability at each of their Apple stores, updated daily. They should also make sure that they have plenty of black bumpers in stock right now and sell them for $5 (or give them away gratis, as a thank you gesture for choosing the iPhone).

This controversy is not only leaving a bad taste in the mouth for Apple loyalists, but diminishing brand perception. By doing 1-12 above, there may be a negative impact on the quarterly profit for a quarter or two, but long-term negative trends in stock value should not occur.

I doubt Mr. Jobs wants his legacy at Apple to end on this very negative final note. The photos of him with Medvedev shows a very sick man (I'm a physician familiar with end-of-life issues, but it doesn't require an MD to see the pronounced muscle wasting apparent). Do the right thing, Mr. Jobs and when you leave the company, we can celebrate all you've done for Apple for the past 25 years. You have every right to be proud, but a little humility now would help an awful lot.

You might be interested to know that it has been reported that Apple have waived the restocking fee for iPhones returned within the 30 day after sale period during which the purchaser may return the phone.

Welcome to the forum. While I don't agree with everything you've stated it's well thought out and reasoned.


Possibly. It's a reasonable theory, nonetheless.


That hasn't been by experience at all, nor from the people I know with iPhone 4s (two of which did return there for non-"faulty" units).


Still a reasonable theory, as stated.


Agreed, but Jobs emailing has finally shown the potential harm it can cause, especially if the BGR report is indeed fake.


Agreed on all counts.


It does seem expensive, but I'm not sure if a class action lawsuit which now has something to hold on to, plus the long term damage to their company and brand would be cheaper. And that isn't a fix, it's a Band-Aid at best.


I would think they are resolving the issue. Whether that means fix a TriQuint driver that get confused when certain types of interference are added, if that means making the RF output more powerful which requires a resubmit for regulatory testing, reworking the assembly line so that the coating can dry, or whatever. There are too many options to consider at this point which could potentially resolve the issue.

I agree that they will likely say nothing.


In case you are not aware, if you return the undamaged product within 30 days (at least in the US) there is no restocking fee and your contract is dissolved. Now, if you are on AT&T and canceled your previous contract to get on the new one, then your old one because active again. I think 30 days is more than sufficient for no risk trial.


Agreed.


If you have any doubts and don't want to take the risk that is a valid, but from my PoV this issue is blown out of proportion. Next year, it's likely to be even worse as the number of reported issues will reverberate throughout the internet to an even larger degree. All things being equal, if Apple drops production issues by half but more than twice as many units are sold the issue could appear to be even greater, even though the percentage of faulty units has dramatically declined.


Agreed.


Agreed with the first part and unsure why they haven't set up that site again. Perhaps the unit numbers are so low that it's pointless right now. Clearly they haven't stopped all supply.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the last part. Lowing the price or giving them away doesn't fix the issue (assuming that is the cause and not just a symptom of another issue), gives the lawyers something to grab onto, and would likely cause lawsuits on another front from those who have invested in making iPhone 4 cases themselves. Remember what happened when MS gave away IE, giving away bumpers to all iPhone 4 users could be considered anti-competitive.


As Apple grows this won't be the worst of it. It wasn't too long ago that people were up in arms about iMacs having issues. Every month it's a new thing yet every month their sales skyrocket. It's a compound issue that really only seems like the sky is falling if you read tech blogs and forums, other than that it's just the problem with being popular and having all eyes on you. It's not a bad place to be.

It wasn't waved, this has been the case since at least the iPhone 3G. I think it might be a legal requirement do to the activation of a cellular contract along with the device.

Just a quick aside... is it really that much more work to type "probably" as oppose to the incredibly annoying coinage of "prolly". Speak english please.

Point taken! I normally use "likely", but felt I was in a rut-- I like to indicate where I am speculating as opposed to asserting a fact!

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Prolly not.