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Consumer Reports: signal issues not unique iPhone 4, no reason not to buy - Page 7

post #241 of 452
7/3/10 at 3:34pm
As I've said a number of times since the beginning - "Number of bars displayed does not matter! It is your ability to place calls and hold onto them that matters! The iPhone 4 does this better than any previous iPhone. Case closed."
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post #242 of 452
7/3/10 at 3:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubert View Post

as i've said a number of times since the beginning - "number of bars displayed does not matter! It is your ability to place calls and hold onto them that matters! The iphone 4 does this better than any previous iphone. Case closed."

qft..
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #243 of 452
7/3/10 at 4:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubert View Post

As I've said a number of times since the beginning - "Number of bars displayed does not matter! It is your ability to place calls and hold onto them that matters! The iPhone 4 does this better than any previous iPhone. Case closed."

I can tell that you're just itching to respond to the antenna issues though

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #244 of 452
7/3/10 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubert View Post

As I've said a number of times since the beginning - "Number of bars displayed does not matter! It is your ability to place calls and hold onto them that matters! The iPhone 4 does this better than any previous iPhone. Case closed."

Thanks, Mr.Jobs, I see the light now! Thank God you cleared it up!
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post #245 of 452
7/3/10 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"There's no reason, at least yet, to forgo buying an iPhone 4 over its reception concerns," writes Consumer Reports

If only more people would consider the Positive news like this and cast aside the negative. But some of the sinister elements in the media and blogosphere do have a vested interest in seeing more people NOT buy an iPhone 4, thereby driving down AAPL stock so they can buy low and later sell high when all this news blows over. For those of you who doubt me, consider this has happened before:

http://www.appletell.com/apple/comme...-manipulation/

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/0...-manipulation/

http://www.macworld.com/article/5796.../engadget.html

I therefore cannot believe that the negative product news being spread so rapidly around the web is simply a case of a caring media who wishes to inform the public or tell something important to potential buyers. It seems much more sinister than that.
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post #246 of 452
7/3/10 at 5:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDW View Post

If only more people would consider the Positive news like this and cast aside the negative. .

Which people? The ones who received a bad one or the ones that didn't?

Anyway, I am with you on ignoring it, just checked my status and my phone was to ship before July 14th. It finally changed status to read Prepared for Shipment. Yay! Hopefully mine really did pass QC and didn't just sneak through.

I'm not worried anyway, case is on the way and my Power Support screen protectors should ship soon. Come on baby!
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post #247 of 452
7/3/10 at 5:37pm
I totally agree - I have owned the 3g, 3gs and now the 4. There are places I would get no service with 3 and 3g - notably local big box stores Target, Kohls, etc, and I couldn't call the wife to find her. Now all calls go through - I can't lose her!
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post #248 of 452
7/3/10 at 5:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDW View Post

If only more people would consider the Positive news like this and cast aside the negative. But some of the sinister elements in the media and blogosphere do have a vested interest in seeing more people NOT buy an iPhone 4, thereby driving down AAPL stock so they can buy low and later sell high when all this news blows over. For those of you who doubt me, consider this has happened before:

http://www.appletell.com/apple/comme...-manipulation/

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/0...-manipulation/

http://www.macworld.com/article/5796.../engadget.html

I therefore cannot believe that the negative product news being spread so rapidly around the web is simply a case of a caring media who wishes to inform the public or tell something important to potential buyers. It seems much more sinister than that.

I just had it happen on a completely unrelated stock I own. Orient Paper was trading around 8 until a group called 'Muddy Waters' posted some blatantly incorrect information (Muddy Waters was short ONP). ONP dropped to around 4 so I grabbed some call options. When the market realized what was going on, most of the stock value came back so I made a nice bit of cash on the options - and expect to make more as the stock recovers over the next few days.

It's really sad now easy it is to manipulate the market and how people rush off helter-skelter on bad information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbat23 View Post

I totally agree - I have owned the 3g, 3gs and now the 4. There are places I would get no service with 3 and 3g - notably local big box stores Target, Kohls, etc, and I couldn't call the wife to find her. Now all calls go through - I can't lose her!

Every silver lining has a cloud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubert View Post

As I've said a number of times since the beginning - "Number of bars displayed does not matter! It is your ability to place calls and hold onto them that matters! The iPhone 4 does this better than any previous iPhone. Case closed."

PC World just released an article confirming this. Their test was not the least bit scientific, but again indicates that the connection problems are far from common.
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post #249 of 452
7/3/10 at 6:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kresh View Post

And I am old enough to remember when Consumer Reports was above paid reviews (blogging in today's vernacular).

They used to only review a category of products and impartially evaluate them, this blog entry just reeks.



Another class action lawyer looking for an Apple ambulance to chase perhaps?

I have been making calls, web surfing and using various news apps. With virtually no bars showing and voice clarity has been as good or better than before and nyt app appears to load far faster. What can I say?
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post #250 of 452
7/3/10 at 6:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

The AnandTech tests were the only effective and scientific tests conducted yet.

The results were clear.

1) The iPhone 4 gets a signal in areas with reception where earlier iPhones would be completely dead.
2) The iPhone 4 "death grip" issue is real, but it causes a maximum drop of 24dBm.
3) The only time it will be enough to drop a call is in cases where earlier iPhones would never have made a call, and would have simply displayed 0 bars. So, even after the death grip, the iPhone 4 still has much better reception than earlier iPhones.
4) The bar inflation issue is real.
5) Other phones suffer from attenuation just like the iPhone 4 does.
6) The iPhone 4 death grip attenuation is more than other phones' attenuation, but even after the attenuation, the signal is much better.

Despite this independent report people are badmouthing the iPhone 4 - which despite it's more sensitive attenuation - Works ( pretty much as promised ) .

I'd be interested in knowing the reasons why the phone stops working for some people and not others
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post #251 of 452
7/3/10 at 7:28pm
this just in, they fixed the problem. http://yfrog.com/2twr5fj
What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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post #252 of 452
7/3/10 at 8:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by centparkrun View Post

There may be connectivity issues with most phones, but those makers (a) don't put it where you would want to hold it

Doesn't seem to matter.
Quote:
Antenna Expert: Apple is Right, iPhone 4 Signal Woes Overblown

First, they placed a call on an iPhone 4 while holding the handset from the top. They then switched to the infamous "grip of death"--holding the bottom of the phone tightly with two hands.

"We succeeded in taking a five-bar display and reducing it to one bar by doing that," Webb says. "But the call remained solid and never dropped."

http://www.pcworld.com/article/20045...overblown.html


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post #253 of 452
7/3/10 at 8:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

this just in, they fixed the problem. http://yfrog.com/2twr5fj

A picture is worth thousand words!
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post #254 of 452
7/3/10 at 10:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

The AnandTech tests were the only effective and scientific tests conducted yet.

The results were clear.

Apparently not clear enough since you seem to have misinterpreted them.

Quote:
1) The iPhone 4 gets a signal in areas with reception where earlier iPhones would be completely dead.

... when the iPhone 4 was used with a case.

Quote:
2) The iPhone 4 "death grip" issue is real, but it causes a maximum drop of 24dBm.

True.

Quote:
3) The only time it will be enough to drop a call is in cases where earlier iPhones would never have made a call, and would have simply displayed 0 bars. So, even after the death grip, the iPhone 4 still has much better reception than earlier iPhones.

False. The only time it will be enough is if you are holding a bare iPhone 4 and the 24dBm would bottom out the signal below ~113dBM.

So, let's say you have an 90dBM signal

on iPhone 4 bare hand it goes from 90dBM (5 bars) -> 114dBm (dropped call, 0 bars)
on iPhone 3GS bare hand it goes from 90dBM (5 bars)-> 104dBm (no dropped call, 2 bars)

Quote:
4) The bar inflation issue is real.

True.

Quote:
5) Other phones suffer from attenuation just like the iPhone 4 does.

but not to the same degree.

Quote:
6) The iPhone 4 death grip attenuation is more than other phones' attenuation, but even after the attenuation, the signal is much better.

Only if there is still signal left to be used.
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post #255 of 452
7/3/10 at 11:14pm
Well, it looks like Consumer Reports found the issue after all. This is their follow up tests at home.

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/ele...reports-s.html
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post #256 of 452
7/3/10 at 11:55pm
Jason Chen is still going to jail for being a criminal moron.. no matter how many patsies get duped by this shinola.
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post #257 of 452
7/4/10 at 4:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

The AnandTech tests were the only effective and scientific tests conducted yet.

The results were clear.

1) The iPhone 4 gets a signal in areas with reception where earlier iPhones would be completely dead.
2) The iPhone 4 "death grip" issue is real, but it causes a maximum drop of 24dBm.
3) The only time it will be enough to drop a call is in cases where earlier iPhones would never have made a call, and would have simply displayed 0 bars. So, even after the death grip, the iPhone 4 still has much better reception than earlier iPhones.
4) The bar inflation issue is real.
5) Other phones suffer from attenuation just like the iPhone 4 does.
6) The iPhone 4 death grip attenuation is more than other phones' attenuation, but even after the attenuation, the signal is much better.

Thanks for the info. All my concerns are now resolved.

I doubt that the bars were being "accidently" over-represented though. Up until today I assumed that there was an agreed standard to the units being displayed. But if it's an algorithm that is able to be independently manipulated of course Steve is going to set it to overestimate the bars to "showcase" the new antenna design. I bet he figured that any dropped calls from five bars would be blamed on the network.

Still it's a buy from me!
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post #258 of 452
7/4/10 at 5:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunks View Post

Thanks for the info. All my concerns are now resolved.
....
Still it's a buy from me!

You deserve to buy an iPhone 4. Make sure you sell/donate your 2G/3G/3GS before you buy your 4. That way, you can ensure your experience is "optimal"!
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post #259 of 452
7/4/10 at 5:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1122 View Post

Well, it looks like Consumer Reports found the issue after all. This is their follow up tests at home.

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/ele...reports-s.html

Well, yesterday CR was a great magazine known for their honesty and today, well, today is another day.
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post #260 of 452
7/4/10 at 5:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I've already explained why it's relevant as for Apple's "fix" they have no "fix".

If you missed it though I'm wondering if somehow Apple were trying to mask any possible signs of the antenna issue and when the wifi signal dropped and the ip4 switched to it's cellular data and that displayed the pop up message "Could not activate cellular data" whether that was a part of how Apple were trying to mask the issue. I don't know whether or not it was, but if it was, that's significant. Perhaps we will never be able to tell with certainty but it got me thinking about it. I hope I haven't committed any kind of thought crime here!

Explain how my 3GS does the something at times? I think we have several issues going on at once. Real, but one off problems with individual phones, this bars issue, problems with 4.0, and normal AT&T stuff.
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post #261 of 452
7/4/10 at 6:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by imacFP View Post

Explain how my 3GS does the something at times? I think we have several issues going on at once. Real, but one off problems with individual phones, this bars issue, problems with 4.0, and normal AT&T stuff.

The key with 3G is "sometimes"! iPhone 4 is not limited to "sometimes", at least where I work and live.
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post #262 of 452
7/4/10 at 6:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

...which you have the option not buying at all or of returning it within 30 days for a full refund if that is your belief.

So what are you going to sue for?

Bus fare, washing tear stains from your pillow, shattered dreams or what?

I'm not suing, crazy person.

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post #263 of 452
7/4/10 at 6:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by vrkiran View Post

Well, when my 3GS has trouble with Wifi, it latches on to 3G and manages to download www.nytimes.com easily :-) (I am not referring to Facetime demo, I am referring to screen resolution demo with nytimes.com)

Oh wait, may be Steve did not have a 3G sim activated with PS services. Cost cutting, I bet.

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post #264 of 452
7/4/10 at 6:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

... If you missed it though I'm wondering if somehow Apple were trying to mask any possible signs of the antenna issue and when the wifi signal dropped and the ip4 switched to it's cellular data and that displayed the pop up message "Could not activate cellular data" whether that was a part of how Apple were trying to mask the issue. I don't know whether or not it was, but if it was, that's significant. Perhaps we will never be able to tell with certainty but it got me thinking about it. I hope I haven't committed any kind of thought crime here!

If you missed it, your theory about this has already been entirely discredited. The dialog that popped up indicates that the phone has not been activated on a cellular network. It has absolutely nothing to do with any of the issues or non-issues involved here. It has nothing to do with the iP4 switching "to it's [sic] cellular data." This has already been pointed out to you in another thread, where you were promoting the same conspiracy theory nonsense.
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post #265 of 452
7/4/10 at 6:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


Exactly!!! Why was only 4 having trouble?
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post #266 of 452
7/4/10 at 6:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

If you missed it, your theory about this has already been entirely discredited. The dialog that popped up indicates that the phone has not been activated on a cellular network. It has absolutely nothing to do with any of the issues or non-issues involved here. It has nothing to do with the iP4 switching "to it's [sic] cellular data." This has already been pointed out to you in another thread, where you were promoting the same conspiracy theory nonsense.

Thanks for the encouragement!

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #267 of 452
7/4/10 at 6:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by vrkiran View Post

Exactly!!! Why was only 4 having trouble?

Actually none of the two finished loading. It is interesting that the 3G S got further along, though.

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post #268 of 452
7/4/10 at 6:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Thanks for the encouragement!

Just pretend he doesn't exist. The issue is real and plenty of people believe you, and many more have it. 50% of the nearly 50,000 people with iPhone 4s who took the Macrumors poll have the issue. Don't be discouraged.

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post #269 of 452
7/4/10 at 7:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimsyswallows View Post

It's 'affect', which is a verb, meaning to influence in some way. 'Effect' is a noun; the result of the verb 'affect'.

Effect is also a verb (meaning to complete or accomplish), but you are correct that the verb (or noun) "effect" was was the wrong word to use in this case.
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post #270 of 452
7/4/10 at 7:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunks View Post

... I doubt that the bars were being "accidently" over-represented though. Up until today I assumed that there was an agreed standard to the units being displayed. But if it's an algorithm that is able to be independently manipulated of course Steve is going to set it to overestimate the bars to "showcase" the new antenna design. I bet he figured that any dropped calls from five bars would be blamed on the network. ...

Choosing to not have the bars be strictly analogous to signal strength is not the same thing at all as manipulating them. It seems that they were set to be analogous to expected call quality rather than signal strength, but, because of characteristics of the iP4 antenna, this approach sometimes gave widely different information in cases of marginal signal strength depending on whether the antenna was touched or not.

This way of displaying bars may or may not be uncommon: we don't really have information on how other phone makers display bars.
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post #271 of 452
7/4/10 at 7:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Actually none of the two finished loading. It is interesting that the 3G S got further along, though.

Interesting, perhaps, but not necessarily meaningful.
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post #272 of 452
7/4/10 at 7:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Choosing to not have the bars be strictly analogous to signal strength is not the same thing at all as manipulating them. It seems that they were set to be analogous to expected call quality rather than signal strength, but, because of characteristics of the iP4 antenna, this approach sometimes gave widely different information in cases of marginal signal strength depending on whether the antenna was touched or not.

Are you saying you now see this as a hardware issue? Or is this not a new viewpoint on your part?

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post #273 of 452
7/4/10 at 7:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Just pretend he doesn't exist. The issue is real and plenty of people believe you, and many more have it. 50% of the nearly 50,000 people with iPhone 4s who took the Macrumors poll have the issue. Don't be discouraged.

Yes, this is illustrative of your entire approach to this topic. Just pretend information that contradicts your hysteria doesn't exist.
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post #274 of 452
7/4/10 at 7:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Interesting, perhaps, but not necessarily meaningful.

I said 'interesting'. Never mentioned 'meaningful'. Certainly no big deal.

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post #275 of 452
7/4/10 at 7:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Yes, this is illustrative of your entire approach to this topic. Just pretend information that contradicts your hysteria doesn't exist.

Actually, that's your approach. Although I wouldn't use the term: hysteria. Regurgitated from that AI post.

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post #276 of 452
7/4/10 at 7:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Are you saying you now see this as a hardware issue? Or is this not a new viewpoint on your part?

I've posted several times as to what I see the issues to be. Briefly:

1. Signal drops from touching antenna
2. Service loss from bridging the seam
3. Proximity sensor problems causing "dropped" calls


The display of bars is related to issue 1. Issue 2 only seems to affect some phones (even when side by side when they should have the same signal) and is likely some sort of manufacturing issue (HW assembly or SW related). Issue 3 probably contributes to the perception of the severity of signal problems but is a separate issue.
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post #277 of 452
7/4/10 at 7:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I've posted several times as to what I see the issues to be. Briefly:

1. Signal drops from touching antenna
2. Service loss from bridging the seam
3. Proximity sensor problems causing "dropped" calls


The display of bars is related to issue 1. Issue 2 only seems to affect some phones (even when side by side when they should have the same signal) and is likely some sort of manufacturing issue (HW assembly or SW related). Issue 3 probably contributes to the perception of the severity of signal problems but is a separate issue.

Ok...

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post #278 of 452
7/4/10 at 7:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Just pretend he doesn't exist. The issue is real and plenty of people believe you, and many more have it. 50% of the nearly 50,000 people with iPhone 4s who took the Macrumors poll have the issue. Don't be discouraged.

I'm sure you'll agree with me that the outright falsities by many of the antenna denialist's are spurring people on to correct them not put them off. Their tactic has backfired for a lot of people. Telling people that they're mad, stupid etc for posting their experiences was a really bad idea and not what I would have expected from the people here before this happened.

As to the keynote wifi problem, I find it odd that when the wifi failed and the iPhone 4 switched to cellular that the iPhone 4 hadn't been activated. If that's typical for Apple, then fine, no conspiracy theory, but if it's not is does make me wonder if they may have done that in attempt to mask any possible antenna issues.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #279 of 452
7/4/10 at 7:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

... As to the keynote wifi problem, I find it odd that when the wifi failed and the iPhone 4 switched to cellular that the iPhone 4 hadn't been activated. If that's typical for Apple, then fine, no conspiracy theory, but if it's not is does make me wonder if they may have done that in attempt to mask any possible antenna issues.

You either have no idea what you are talking about, or don't care. The iP4 did not "switch to cellular". That dialog will come up for any cellular iDevice that hasn't been activated whenever the cellular features are turned on, even if you aren't attempting to use them. It's meaningless, you've been told it's meaningless, yet you keep pushing this nonsense.

You are either incapable of rational thought, or you aren't posting here with any interest in the truth.
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post #280 of 452
7/4/10 at 7:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

If you missed it, your theory about this has already been entirely discredited. The dialog that popped up indicates that the phone has not been activated on a cellular network. It has absolutely nothing to do with any of the issues or non-issues involved here. It has nothing to do with the iP4 switching "to it's [sic] cellular data." This has already been pointed out to you in another thread, where you were promoting the same conspiracy theory nonsense.

We are not in a country that is highly regarded for it's corporate ethics. So if I or anyone else subscribe to a conspiracy theory, convince yourself over and over that you don't buy it. You never know what is going to happen tomorrow!
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