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Chinese market mirrors potential of Verizon iPhone

post #1 of 70
Thread Starter 
China Mobile, the world's largest cellular provider with more than a half billion subscribers, wants Apple to develop a custom iPhone for use on its unique TD-SCDMA 3G network. There's a lot at stake, and the situation reveals some clues about about the potential for a CDMA iPhone for Verizon Wireless here in the US.

China's TD-SCDMA experiment

Like the US, mobile providers in China are split between a 3GPP GSM/UMTS mobile network (run by China Unicom, using technology similar to AT&T and T-Mobile in the US) and Qualcomm's CDMA/EVDO (operated by China Telecom, similar to Verizon and Sprint in the US). However, the Chinese government has also worked to develop a third, incompatible 3G cellular standard known as TD-SCDMA

That work was done in order to build out parallel new mobile infrastructure that would not be reliant upon Western technology, and could therefore avoid paying patent royalties to the companies that developed it including Nokia and Qualcomm. A license to build out a TD-SCDMA, 3G mobile network was awarded to the state owned China Mobile in 2009; it previously only operated a 2G GSM/GPRS network.

Like Google's effort to deliver WebM/VP8 as a free video codec alternative to H.264, the Chinese effort to build out TD-SCDMA as a royalty free 3G network is fraught with infringement risks, because the complex technology involved in spread spectrum radio transmission is a patent minefield.

This situation mirrors the problems China experienced in attempting to create its own Western-royalty free alternative to DVD, which it called EVD. Somewhat ironically, that project used VP5 and VP6 video codecs from On2, the same company Google acquired to deliver WebM. EVD subsequently failed, and On2 ended up with no valid claims from its Chinese partners, leaving the company to recycle its efforts in taking on DVD's MPEG-2 with today's efforts to rival MPEG-4 H.264 on the web.

China Mobile calls for custom iPhone, gets put on hold

However, China is still intent upon pushing TD-SCDMA, and China Mobile has been working to woo Apple into building a custom iPhone to take advantage of the carrier's new 3G network, as it currently lacks a standout 3G phone to attract subscribers to the faster data network now being extended across the country.

Back in March, the carrier's chief executive Wang Jianzhou told the Financial Times that "including TD-SCDMA is not that hard to do," adding that "RIM is doing it." He said China Mobile wants to increase its 3G subscriber base from just under 4 million to at least 10 million this year. The balance of its subscribers are all still using 2G GSM/GPRS.

Last fall, Apple non-exclusively partnered with China Unicom, the second largest provider in China (and the ninth largest worldwide with 147,000 subscribers), to distribute the iPhone. It's the easiest Chinese carrier for Apple to accommodate, given that it runs a GSM/UMTS network like AT&T and other existing iPhone carriers worldwide.

While China Unicom has far fewer total subscribers than China Mobile (149 million vs. 527 million), it has 3.6 million subscribers on its 3G network, compared to China Mobile's 3.9 3G users (as of the end of January). Both carriers offer huge potential opportunities for dramatically increasing Apple's sales, although partnering with China Mobile requires far more work, as its TS-SCDMA is not just different but less mature. At the same time, China Mobile has the resources to build out its network faster, if it can find a popular phone to drive interest among its half billion subscribers.



WiFi rules, high prices stagnate sales

In addition to pushing TD-SCDMA, The Chinese government has also worked to push its own WAPI wireless networking standard in place of IEEE 802.11 WiFi, and subsequently outlawed the import, sale, and use of WiFi equipment in China. That had an averse impact on Apple's iPhone sales through China Unicom, as the company was forced to remove WiFi from the phones it sold there.

That WiFi restriction and subsequent handicapping of the iPhone in China appeared to depress interest in the China Unicom phone, with just 5,000 units reported sold at its launch last November.

Sales have improved a bit since, and relaxed rules that now allow WiFi should enable Apple to begin selling more attractive, WiFi capable iPhones. Official sales of the iPhone in China are also hindered by high prices: the $730-$1020 price tag is much higher than the cost of grey market iPhones brought into the country through Hong Kong.

Will Apple break its universal iPhone model?

Getting the iPhone selling in China is clearly a top priority for Apple. Its current reliance on China Unicom is expected to grow as the company launches its stock version of iPhone 4, with WiFi intact, to the Chinese market in August. If that launch is successful, it will no doubt entrench Apple's current strategy of selling one global iPhone model.

That would also likely mean that an iPhone wouldn't make it to Verizon until either LTE becomes widely available in a year or two (enabling Apple to build a single UMTS/LTE model it can sell globally), or until a hybrid GSM/UMTS/CDMA baseband chip becomes available for Apple to build an iPhone that can roam across both 3GPP and Qualcomm networks.

If a global iPhone proves too expensive or complicated to build, the company may begin targeting significant markets with custom new models, including Sprint and Verizon's CDMA/EVDO networks in the US, and China Mobile's TD-SCDMA. Currently, the lack of Apple's presence in both those areas has provided an opportunity for Android phones.

In fact, the only two markets globally where Android phones even approach the sales of iPhones, according to Google's AdMob figures, are the US and China. And that's only when AdMob calculates the entire installed base of iPhones and iOS devices to be 27 million and 40 million respectively, compared to the 60 million iPhones and 100 million iOS devices that have actually sold.

In addition to the TD-SCDMA RIM BlackBerry phones under development for sale by China Mobile, Nokia currently sells Symbian phones that work on the Chinese standard, and a variety of Android makers, including Lenovo, Motorola and Samsung, have also announced or begun selling TD-SCDMA handsets.
post #2 of 70
Hoorah! Another Verizon-related rumor!



~Callum
post #3 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

China Mobile, the world's largest cellular provider with more than a half billion subscribers, wants Apple to develop a custom iPhone for use on its unique TD-SCDMA 3G network. There's a lot at stake, and the situation reveals some clues about about the potential for a CDMA iPhone for Verizon Wireless here in the US.

China's TD-SCDMA experiment

market iPhones brought into the country through Hong Kong.

Will Apple break its universal iPhone model?

Getting the iPhone selling in China is clearly a top priority for Apple. Its current reliance on China Unicom is expected to grow as the company launches its stock version of iPhone 4, with WiFi intact, to the Chinese market in August. If that launch is successful, it will no doubt entrench Apple's current strategy of selling one global iPhone model.

That would also likely mean that an iPhone wouldn't make it to Verizon until either LTE becomes widely available in a year or two (enabling Apple to build a single UMTS/LTE model it can sell globally), or until a hybrid GSM/UMTS/CDMA baseband chip becomes available for Apple to build an iPhone that can roam across both 3GPP and Qualcomm networks.

If a global iPhone proves too expensive or complicated to build, the company may begin targeting significant markets with custom new models, including Sprint and Verizon's CDMA/EVDO networks in the US, and China Mobile's TD-SCDMA. Currently, the lack of Apple's presence in both those areas has provided an opportunity for Android phones.

In fact, the only two markets globally where Android phones even approach the sales of iPhones, according to Google's AdMob figures, are the US and China. And that's only when AdMob calculates the entire installed base of iPhones and iOS devices to be 27 million and 40 million respectively, compared to the 60 million iPhones and 100 million iOS devices that have actually sold.

In addition to the TD-SCDMA RIM BlackBerry phones under development for sale by China Mobile, Nokia currently sells Symbian phones that work on the Chinese standard, and a variety of Android makers, including Lenovo, Motorola and Samsung, have also announced or begun selling TD-SCDMA handsets.


yes apple will bow very low to appease the red commies
just like google did last week
obama is pushing apple hard for balance of trade numbers
and verizon is also a no brainer

so apple may be can sell 25 million verizon branded iphones and maybe even 10 million verizon branded ipads


concerning china >>>>

china already buys tons of jail broken iphones with wifi included
>>> sales to china looks like maybe 20 million over 4 yrs
the over all halo effect looms much larger for all apple stuff for red china

sadly as a share holder apple using slave labor in commie red china will one day have to be reckoned with
apple sadly will reap what it sows
foxcomm sucks
9

some USA factories might be a good starting point
whats in a name ? 
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whats in a name ? 
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post #4 of 70
Has anyone previously mentioned that the chart above is missing EVDO Rev B - channel bonding? No one really implemented it though.
post #5 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

yes apple will bow very low to appease the red commies
just like google did last week
obama is pushing apple hard for balance of trade numbers
and verizon is also a no brainer

so apple may be can sell 25 million verizon branded iphones and maybe even 10 million verizon branded ipads


concerning china >>>>

china already buys tons of jail broken iphones with wifi included
>>> sales to china looks like maybe 20 million over 4 yrs
the over all halo effect looms much larger for all apple stuff for red china

sadly as a share holder apple using slave labor in commie red china will one day have to be reckoned with
apple sadly will reap what it sows
foxcomm sucks
9

some USA factories might be a good starting point



Cut that commie. It is only for people stuck i the 60's cultural revolution.
China is already looking for a bright future, sadly most of you in the USA are glued to failed Reagan policies.
China is only communist by fame.

China is a (harsh) capitalist country with one party system.

Throw commie at Sweden, where the state IS actually a social state.
post #6 of 70
There are some things wrong with that chart:

1) CDMA/CDMA2000/EVDO are standards created by 3rd Generation Partnership Project 2 (3GPP2), so even if Qualcomm is the primary technology developer/IP owner, your chart should be changed reflect both standard organizations (3GPP and 3GPP2)

2) CDMA2000/EVDO is still used in dozens of countries around the world, with hundreds of millions of subscribers. Its certainly not as widespread as GSM/UMTS, but to say that it is only Verizon and Sprint using CDMA is completely misleading.

Also, this is unrelated, but China needs to drop the communist "we will develop our own non-western technology" bullshit. The TD-SCDMA crap is just holding back the country from a widespread, unified communications network.
post #7 of 70
"obama is pushing apple hard for balance of trade numbers"

I have not seen this information anywhere. Is there a source for this? Please credit, would really like to see this.

And how does a phone built in china, and sold to Chinese help our balance of trade? No jobs are created domestically, no raw materials consumed, transported or converted, so no advantage gained for the economy except to stockholders.
post #8 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

There are some things wrong with that chart:

1) CDMA/CDMA2000/EVDO are standards created by 3rd Generation Partnership Project 2 (3GPP2), so even if Qualcomm is the primary technology developer/IP owner, your chart should be changed reflect both standard organizations (3GPP and 3GPP2)

I agree. Qualcomm has valid patents in use with 3GPP, too (not sure if TD-SCDMA was able to abolish all of them) so listing Qualcomm is inaccurate.

Quote:
2) CDMA2000/EVDO is still used in dozens of countries around the world, with hundreds of millions of subscribers. Its certainly not as widespread as GSM/UMTS, but to say that it is only Verizon and Sprint using CDMA is completely misleading.

I think that is generally known and this article does compare the potential internet for Apple between a Verizon and China Mobile iPhone using a different network type.

As I've mentioned in other threads there is much to discuss on which option is better for Apple. I wager GSM/TD-SCDMA will be growing whilst CDMA/CDMA2000 will be shrinking. Currently with 550 million subs, China Mobile's numbers look pretty good.

The real question is which tech will get more buyers in the long run. I figure Verizon's 100M subs will buy more iPhones right away, but what about China Mobile in 5 years when Verizon is full on LTE and China Mobile is now using TD-LTE and if their government has decided to migrate all Chinese carriers to their homegrown network.

Quote:
Also, this is unrelated, but China needs to drop the communist "we will develop our own non-western technology" bullshit. The TD-SCDMA crap is just holding back the country from a widespread, unified communications network.

They haven't excluded any other tech yet and they are quite large so I don't see them abandoning it.
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post #9 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by 801 View Post

"obama is pushing apple hard for balance of trade numbers"

Dumbest quote of the year.

Apple's iPhone wouldn't make even a ripple in balance of trade. What will is the Chinese revaluation of its renminbi, as recently announced. THAT will impact balance of trade.
post #10 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan;

Also, this is unrelated, but China needs to drop the communist "we will develop our own non-western technology" bullshit. The TD-SCDMA crap is just holding back the country from a widespread, unified communications network.

TD-SCDMA, I wonder if that is China's version of "Commie" control of their people's conversation?

Yeah, "Commie", I said it! I guess those who are sensitive forgot China's handling of free speech and the right to peaceably assemble in Tianamen Square!

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post #11 of 70
I'm confused as to why the chart says that 4G is "at least 100 Mbps," when Sprint's 4G is nowhere near that.
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post #12 of 70
Fully 1/3 of the comments posted so far sound like they were written by ignorant grades school children parroting the wacky idiocy of their mentally challenged parents without having any idea of what they are talking about — commie, socialist, Obama, jobs, balance of trade, no-brainer,etc.
Gotta love the provocative buzz words.

Raise your damn standards folks.
post #13 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeTheRock View Post

I'm confused as to why the chart says that 4G is "at least 100 Mbps," when Sprint's 4G is nowhere near that.

Because Sprint's "4G" is really Mobile WiMAx which is 3.9G.
post #14 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Somewhat ironically, that project used VP5 and VP6 video codecs from On2, the same company Google acquired to deliver WebM.

This is not an "ironic" situation -- not even bad luck -- just coincidence. Please refer to the Dictionary app on your Mac and stop listening to Alanis Morissette songs.
post #15 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvolino View Post

This is not an "ironic" situation -- not even bad luck -- just coincidence. Please refer to the Dictionary app on your Mac and stop listening to Alanis Morissette songs.

Yes. What is ironic is that they think they understand the meaning of the word "ironic" when in fact, the don't.
post #16 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by 801 View Post

"obama is pushing apple hard for balance of trade numbers"

I have not seen this information anywhere. Is there a source for this? Please credit, would really like to see this.

Oh, it's probably one of those: "Everybody knows this, you stupid liberal" things. It was on Fox news so it must be true.
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post #17 of 70
Let us not forget that China is a communist country. Allbeit a schizophrenic communist capitalist system. Hong Kong is only free because it used to be owned by the English. Freedom remains in Hong Kong only because the communists know there would be outright rebellion if they tried to clamp down. It would also be very bad publicity.

The Chinese have stolen a lot of tech from USA and some of it was handed to them by, cough, Clinton. They have zero military relations with the USA. They have been building their military at a cold war pace. They turn over North Korean escapees. They sell weapons to our enemies. They (disappear people), they imprison Christian missionaries. If you travel there you are escorted and followed around by secret police. They are some of the biggest polluters and do not care about the health and safety of their workers or people. Dumping hazardous waste that goes downstream killing thousands. Knocking down homes and stealing land without notice. If a worker is injured, they simply can no longer work and are kicked out of their housing and sent away.

It is nowhere near as bad as North Korea, but in many ways the same with simply more money.
post #18 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

Yeah, "Commie", I said it! I guess those who are sensitive forgot China's handling of free speech and the right to peaceably assemble in Tianamen Square!

What was the date on your picture? Things have moved on a bit I think.

Come on, even the party in China knows its days are numbered. The toothpaste is well out of the tube. They've gone too far down the capitalist/materialist path to ever turn back. You wanna see a new People's Revolution? Let them try putting the genie back in the bottle.

The party knows the best it can do is to prepare for some kind of soft transition to a real democracy of some kind. It's a new generation, Rot'n Apple.
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post #19 of 70
Apple building a TD-SCDMA iPhone for a Carrier with half a BILLION subscribers seems like a good idea , even if market penetration is only 10% that is 50 Million iphones working on TD-SCDMA networks... if TD-SCDMA were compatible with CDMA networks Verizon would have a shot at the iPhone, but it's not. How many subscribers does Verizon have? 93 million? at 10% again you get 9.3 millions phones not a big enough number to make a special phone... if apple has sold 60 million iphones and has the chance to sell a different model iphone that could easily sell another 50 that is a no- brainer, but to make a model that will only sell to 9 more units seems more trouble that it is worth...
post #20 of 70
Quote:
Ochyming: Throw commie at Sweden, where the state IS actually a social state.

What's wrong with you? Sweden is not a "commie" state. I doubt you'r from Sweden or have even been there. I'm Swedish, Sweden might be more left then the US but commies I think not.
post #21 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanm9 View Post

Apple building a TD-SCDMA iPhone for a Carrier with half a BILLION subscribers seems like a good idea , even if market penetration is only 10% that is 50 Million iphones working on TD-SCDMA networks... if TD-SCDMA were compatible with CDMA networks Verizon would have a shot at the iPhone, but it's not. How many subscribers does Verizon have? 93 million? at 10% again you get 9.3 millions phones not a big enough number to make a special phone... if apple has sold 60 million iphones and has the chance to sell a different model iphone that could easily sell another 50 that is a no- brainer, but to make a model that will only sell to 9 more units seems more trouble that it is worth...

Your points are valid but I think your percentages need to be adjusted. I don't think it's a stretch to think Verizon will have a much higher penetration of iPhone users than China Mobile. Since they about 550% more subs than Verizon, everything else being equal Verizon would have to sell 5.5x as many iPhones. Looking at China Unicom and AT&T, that may not be too hard for them to do; but all things aren't equal, so I think China Mobile has a shot.

While in the long term GSM/TD-SCDMA/TD-LTE might be bigger than CDMA/CDMA2000, in the short term it's likely a CDMA-based iPhone will sell more and faster to the few hundred thousand current users throughout the world.

Also, 9.3 Million of any CE is a big enough market to grab if you can grab it.
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post #22 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by 801 View Post

"obama is pushing apple hard for balance of trade numbers"

I have not seen this information anywhere. Is there a source for this? Please credit, would really like to see this.

And how does a phone built in china, and sold to Chinese help our balance of trade? No jobs are created domestically, no raw materials consumed, transported or converted, so no advantage gained for the economy except to stockholders.

Huh? Why respond to the clearly unhinged? That's what ignore lists are for. brucep now added. Problem solved!
post #23 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvolino View Post

This is not an "ironic" situation -- not even bad luck -- just coincidence. Please refer to the Dictionary app on your Mac and stop listening to Alanis Morissette songs.

Might I recommend this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT1TV...=youtube_gdata
post #24 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

Might I recommend this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT1TV...=youtube_gdata

That was good.
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post #25 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

They've gone too far down the capitalist/materialist path to ever turn back. You wanna see a new People's Revolution? Let them try putting the genie back in the bottle.

That's probably more of a Western view. How exactly would the Chinese people defend themselves? They don't have access to arms, are not politically connected to their "representatives", and have little voice in the press. We like to think the whole country is on the verge of collapse or outright revolution, but at this point... no.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #26 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

Might I recommend this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT1TV...=youtube_gdata

Mmph... didn't find this guy in the least bit funny. Perhaps a cultural divide.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #27 of 70
Sprint/Clearwire has talked about moving to TD-LTE

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=189890
post #28 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

yes apple will bow very low to appease the red commies
just like google did last week
obama is pushing apple hard for balance of trade numbers
and verizon is also a no brainer

so apple may be can sell 25 million verizon branded iphones and maybe even 10 million verizon branded ipads


concerning china >>>>

china already buys tons of jail broken iphones with wifi included
>>> sales to china looks like maybe 20 million over 4 yrs
the over all halo effect looms much larger for all apple stuff for red china

sadly as a share holder apple using slave labor in commie red china will one day have to be reckoned with
apple sadly will reap what it sows
foxcomm sucks
9

some USA factories might be a good starting point

Well, I think Apple having US factories is a pipe dream, very little if anything is made here in the States. If you had to answer to your shareholders, what sounds better? Paying a buck an hour in China? or 8 bucks an hour in the Good Old USA.
Money and Profits rule! (Sad but true)

As to a CMDA phone, I suggested before, China is the Market, Apple will make it.
post #29 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

That's probably more of a Western view. How exactly would the Chinese people defend themselves? They don't have access to arms, are not politically connected to their "representatives", and have little voice in the press. We like to think the whole country is on the verge of collapse or outright revolution, but at this point... no.

China has a very good Military, and Billions of People. China also owns most of the US debt, and lots of property/companies in the States. Do Not Underestimate them.
They could pull the plug, and call the loans due. And we are F****d. Simple. This started years ago.
post #30 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinw View Post

China has a very good Military, and Billions of People. China also owns most of the US debt, and lots of property/companies in the States. Do Not Underestimate them.
They could pull the plug, and call the loans due. And we are F****d. Simple. This started years ago.


China will have a very good military in about 20 years. Right now it's a good match for maybe Canada.

If China calls the loans, we print dollars and pay them tomorrow. Yes, it's that simple, if it needs to be. But you are right, China is up to tricky games. Your general point is right but not quite yet.
post #31 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

Fully 1/3 of the comments posted so far sound like they were written by ignorant grades school children parroting the wacky idiocy of their mentally challenged parents without having any idea of what they are talking about commie, socialist, Obama, jobs, balance of trade, no-brainer,etc.
Gotta love the provocative buzz words.

Raise your damn standards folks.

Or at the very least, learn to think and research for yourself. A word of advice: Never ever believe either CNN or FOX. Learn to do research on your own.
THINK!
post #32 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik View Post

China will have a very good military in about 20 years. Right now it's a good match for maybe Canada.

If China calls the loans, we print dollars and pay them tomorrow. Yes, it's that simple, if it needs to be. But you are right, China is up to tricky games. Your general point is right but not quite yet.

First, may I suggest you read history, Korean War, China fought us to a draw, even to this day.
Viet Nam, China won.

China has nuclear Subs, ICBM's, and many nuclear weapons.

Never under estimate them. Never. China is the Worlds OLDEST civilization for a reason.
post #33 of 70
China wants to continue the one-sided relationship with the US. Under this arrangement, China finances our debt, steals our intellectual property, and pays factory workers in state-owned factories slave wages to build stuff for American high tech companies. All while keeping their currency artificially low and markets closed to American products (especially those not built in China). This one-sided relationship has got to end! The 'Chinese Wall' of standards ensures that American companies will NEVER get a fair shake in China
post #34 of 70
first, i am puzzled by your comments. chinese td-scdma caused big concern because you suspected china wanted to "develop our own non-western technology", while futuristic 3GPP2 will have CDMA-family-tree standards and GSM-family-tree standards. the main reason you argue against it was for sake of "unified" communication, but even without chinese TD-SCDMA standard, market has been segmented pretty much already. so why are you so bothered?

second, do you understand why chinese want to have TD-SCDMA in the first place besides your suspect of their standing alone stance?

here are my understandings:

1: TD-SCDMA has been adopted as an international standard under ITU. interestingly enough, german's siemens was one of the original founder partners on TD-SCDMA draft.
2: chinese are aiming at better spectrum utilization: in high populated cities in china, using CDMA or its likes to transmit the same bit rate of data, TD-SCDMA would be using a fraction of it.
3: small and smarter antenna: with smaller antenna, the cost on design and maintenance would be dramatically reduced and managed
4: chip design for chinese 3G cell network: chinese knows that they are not the top chip design home in the world, thus by reducing the standard initial cost and design hurdles, they are very pragmatic and thus TD-SCDMA is well suited for its domestic equipment vendors to design/make/support for their 3G network transition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

There are some things wrong with that chart:

1) CDMA/CDMA2000/EVDO are standards created by 3rd Generation Partnership Project 2 (3GPP2), so even if Qualcomm is the primary technology developer/IP owner, your chart should be changed reflect both standard organizations (3GPP and 3GPP2)

2) CDMA2000/EVDO is still used in dozens of countries around the world, with hundreds of millions of subscribers. Its certainly not as widespread as GSM/UMTS, but to say that it is only Verizon and Sprint using CDMA is completely misleading.

Also, this is unrelated, but China needs to drop the communist "we will develop our own non-western technology" bullshit. The TD-SCDMA crap is just holding back the country from a widespread, unified communications network.
post #35 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwee View Post

What's wrong with you? Sweden is not a "commie" state. I doubt you'r from Sweden or have even been there. I'm Swedish, Sweden might be more left then the US but commies I think not.

I believe everywhere that isn't allied with the US is "commie", isn't it?

And before I get trolled, I was JOKING. And trolling.

~Callum
post #36 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by stottm View Post

Let us not forget that China is a communist country. Allbeit a schizophrenic communist capitalist system. Hong Kong is only free because it used to be owned by the English. Freedom remains in Hong Kong only because the communists know there would be outright rebellion if they tried to clamp down. It would also be very bad publicity.

either you are brain damaged or retarded. Hong Kong was a british COLONY for christ sake and you think it was free. without chinese insistency for its return, Hong Kong might be still ruled by supreme british: all top officials in Hong Kong are appointed by her majesty without any democratic process of selection. more than often those positions are so highly sought because the salary was astronomical while responsibility was absolute zero. do a survey on non-white british colonies: after britons left, how many countries or territories are not in a messed up situation?

Quote:
The Chinese have stolen a lot of tech from USA and some of it was handed to them by, cough, Clinton. They have zero military relations with the USA. They have been building their military at a cold war pace. They turn over North Korean escapees. They sell weapons to our enemies. They (disappear people), they imprison Christian missionaries. If you travel there you are escorted and followed around by secret police. They are some of the biggest polluters and do not care about the health and safety of their workers or people. Dumping hazardous waste that goes downstream killing thousands. Knocking down homes and stealing land without notice. If a worker is injured, they simply can no longer work and are kicked out of their housing and sent away.

chinese are not dummies. you think you can just dump whatever you deemed as a favor to them forever? don't be such a whiner as i don't think all democracy can do is to produce such a whiner like you: it is you who elected bush sr, b. clinton, bush jr, obama, and whoever will be coming. why in the hell do you complain about them?

on a side note, from the list you compiled above about china's "dark" side, it looks like that you are china's watcher and you are very good at the news headlines. i have to take my hat off.

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It is nowhere near as bad as North Korea, but in many ways the same with simply more money.

well, simply having more money is better than nothing. what can you do about it?
post #37 of 70
somehow, i have to agree with your "one-sided relationship" between US and china. only difference is that the direction is the other way around. we have been pretty dictating the relationship with PRC for the past 30-40 years as china basically has been doing what we are telling them to do when we need them. now, they are starting to voice more about what they think and want. put politics aside, let me be candid about it, economically we are the suckers while they are the master because they have one of the biggest markets on this planet and they have money now more than ever. what we can do? shut up and sell whatever they want.

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Originally Posted by karmadave View Post

China wants to continue the one-sided relationship with the US. Under this arrangement, China finances our debt, steals our intellectual property, and pays factory workers in state-owned factories slave wages to build stuff for American high tech companies. All while keeping their currency artificially low and markets closed to American products (especially those not built in China). This one-sided relationship has got to end! The 'Chinese Wall' of standards ensures that American companies will NEVER get a fair shake in China
post #38 of 70
THINK? give me a break. many people on this forum lost it. take a look at those pointless arguments on iphone 4's so-called "death grip" problem. all they can think are those 5 bars for christ's sake. tomorrow if apple comes up with 5 red stars instead of bar, people will be panic for fearing of chinese commie are coming.

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Originally Posted by merlinw View Post

Or at the very least, learn to think and research for yourself. A word of advice: Never ever believe either CNN or FOX. Learn to do research on your own.
THINK!
post #39 of 70
There's no way 500,000,000 people can afford an iPhone in China.
I've accomplished my childhood's dream: My job consists mainly of playing with toys all day long.
Reply
I've accomplished my childhood's dream: My job consists mainly of playing with toys all day long.
Reply
post #40 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

They haven't excluded any other tech yet and they are quite large so I don't see them abandoning it.

agreed. the argument of that chinese is building a great wall against foreign technology is totally BS. telecom industries in china are diverse and competitive. foreign companies lost the advantages they used to uphold, simply because of the sheer size of money involved. chinese domestic telecom equipment builders are catching up quickly and becoming not just competitive but also aggressive, even though their technologies are still not up to the latest at front. and chinese market is hugh thus diverse and even though TD-SCDMA is the chinese version of their vision on future cell phone network, other standards are also finding its footage in china. in future, even there might be a TD-LTE, other LTE will be also there side by side with it.

apple's iphone on TD-SCDMA makes sense because before LTE, there is no point to make iphone for US CDMA carrier like Verizon as many US carriers are moving to 4G or at least 3G+ already. in china TD-SCDMA is still a 3G/transition to LTE. and their transition might take longer time if their subscribers are still in majority low end/low bandwidth users.

apple's iphone presence in china will push carriers' network to their upper limit and thus might accelerate their migration from TD-SCDMA to 4G network. china cell providers used to lock into the mindset where more users more revenue. but now each of their network subscription rate is saturated, no more money can be extracted from subscribers. thus it is making sense that they upgrade their network, at least it is the time now.
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