Originally Posted by Fellowship
Stop right there.. You're not God.
Imo we are all God Fellows.
I have said, Ye are gods; And all of you are children of the most High.
I don't think you understand the pain and suffering Jesus took upon himself for our sake. For you to claim you would do it too does not hold a lot of weight to me when I don't believe that you truly grasp the degree of pain and suffering endured.
I may not but some people do. For an example a British artist was crucified in exactly the same manner.Link
nothing, he said, had prepared him for the agony of having five-inch nails driven through his hands. "I had wanted to think of something really beautiful - my girlfriend, for instance - but the pain was so overwhelming. It was far worse than I imagined.
"As 10 or 12 men started to raise the cross to an upright position my eyes filled with tears as I drifted in and out of consciousness."
Mr Horsley, 39, said that the subsequent rush of endorphins produced by his body to combat the pain "felt like a warm bath within".
That last line btw is interesting - neither you nor I know how the body's painkillers will ameliorate the effect. But it is probably a bad experience.
My point is that PAIN is suffered and has been suffered by billions of humans. Equivalent pain. It is not about pain.
Jesus sacrifice was about death and was an intentional reference to the Abraham and Isaac story - with of course the small difference that Isaac would not have been coming back and so that was a REAL sacrifice.
You are free and entitled to this view (in my opinion thanks be to the God and Lord you deny) He allows you this freedom to deny Him.
Glossing over the fact that I do not believe this because it is irrational (though not for the reasons BR would sate) it is BAD THEOLOGY even from within the Christian perspective.
How can God allow sin? Or are you doing a BR-stylee sidestep and saying he doesn't but merely allows the choice?
LIke if I put a glass of water and a glass of colourless, odourless poison in front of you so you can't know which is which and then lock you in a room with no food and water.
When you die from choosing the posion It is 'none of my fault....I am so sad but you had to have free will'.
If my earlier comment about obscenity was a bit strong here it might not be strong enough.
Jesus the messiah is an obscenity? Or that his followers believe he is the messiah is the obscenity? or both?
Neither of those are obscenities imo. I was referring to the propagation of the false belief in the Vicarious Atonement.
To me there is no obscenity here. People are free to deny Jesus if they wish. Go on and live their lives as athiests, agnostics or any other belief they wish.
It's not that easy though is it? It's not even true.
They are not free to do so.....tribes in the Amazon were never free to do so, the continent of Africa is now riddle with problems because Christianity believed they were not free to follow their indigenous beliefs.
The entire Muslim world is not 'free to believe what they like' right now and have had to pass laws stopping the US propagandists from forcing them to change beliefs.
I think yanking out the word "obscenity" is a wee bit harsh seg. with all due respect..
Ok..I retract that one but it is very very bad theology.