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Climate.

Poll Results: Do you repent?

 
  • 100% (1)
    No, I want to be a moran Denialst till I die of heat exhaustion.
  • 0% (0)
    Yes, I repent, the science is worth reading.
1 Total Vote  
post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
This third nail firmly seals the Denialists coffin tightly shut.

Denialist + Climategate = "Shut the bleep up you moran".

I thought it would be appropriate to give our resident Denialists a chance to admit that they were wrong all along. Please Denialists, take this opportunity to repent in this specially designed thread. We won't mock you for it.

"The long-awaited and surprisingly thorough Muir-Russell report (readable online version) was released this morning. Weve had a brief read through of the report, but a thorough analysis of this and the supplemental information on the web site will have to wait for a day or so.

The main issue is that they conclude that the rigour and honesty of the CRU scientists is not in doubt. For anyone who knows Phil Jones and his colleagues this comes as no surprise, and we are very pleased to have this proclaimed so vigorously. Secondly, they conclude that none of the emails cast doubt on the integrity and conclusions of the IPCC, again, something we have been saying since the beginning. They also conclude as we did that there was no corruption of the peer-review process. Interestingly, they independently analysed the public domain temperature data themselves to ascertain whether the could validate the CRU record. They managed this in two days, somewhat undermining claims that the CRU temperature data was somehow manipulated inappropriately. (Note that this exercise has been undertaken by a number of people since November all of which show that the CRU results are robust)."
~ http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...ussell-report/
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #2 of 29
Quick question Hands....

If a Republican committee determined a Republican did no wrong without the help of Democrats, would you trust the outcome?

How about if a military committee determined a military branch did nothing wrong and had no civilian oversight?

Would you trust the results of a police commission investigation into the affairs of some corrupt cops if there were no city residents on the commission?

What makes this any different?

Did the commission include any skeptics or outsiders to the process? If not then it is simple GIGO.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #3 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Quick question Hands....

If a Republican committee determined a Republican did no wrong without the help of Democrats, would you trust the outcome?

How about if a military committee determined a military branch did nothing wrong and had no civilian oversight?

Would you trust the results of a police commission investigation into the affairs of some corrupt cops if there were no city residents on the commission?

What makes this any different?

Did the commission include any skeptics or outsiders to the process? If not then it is simple GIGO.

I'm not seeing much science in your reply trumptman
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #4 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I'm not seeing much science in your reply trumptman

I am not seeing much impartiality in your post or poll Hands.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #5 of 29
Your poll illustrates beautifully just how "impartial" this inquiry was.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #6 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I'm not seeing much science in your reply trumptman

How is an investigation into right or wrong doing a scientific endeavor? It is an ethical endeavor.

Having interested and biased persons as the only parties engaged in the investigation isn't ethical. Their self-interest in the outcome automatically casts doubt.

Impartial parties or a balance of parties invested in the outcome is the only way to have a true ethical investigation. What we have here is no different than code of silence where self interested parties protect each other.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #7 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

The main issue is that they conclude that the rigour and honesty of the CRU scientists is not in doubt.

I think the world has been shown otherwise in recent date; the down low hokum and worldwide fiction that is global warming has been made manifest - the bit players revealed for their snake underhandedness. Whether or not the few CRU scientists were honest in their ecological intentions or fully embedded in the snake oil enterprise of selling global warming is not really the lingering issue; it is instead the far larger international movement away from the global warming kooks to a realization that these ecological demagogues sold their own souls and belief in their progressive wares need not be extended. Gore et al. have shown their stinky undies and trust me there be no truth therein; while preaching carbon credits/global alarmism to a legion of mindless iPad pushing progressives, behind the scenes of Eco Headquarters Central there was international jet setting waste on the climate grants, wild abuse of Portland ladies in undress, repeated breaking of marriage vows, and wholesale waste of climate protection action funds! Carbon credits? We don't need no stinking carbon credits! So in retrospect, whether or not these CRU scientists fell for Gore's bait and committed fraud is meaningless in the greater scheme of things... nobody important believes the snake oil of global warming anyway! Along with the fiction the truth was out there too, and we know it now...
post #8 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

This third nail firmly seals the Denialists coffin tightly shut.

Denialist + Climategate = "Shut the bleep up you moran".

I thought it would be appropriate to give our resident Denialists a chance to admit that they were wrong all along. Please Denialists, take this opportunity to repent in this specially designed thread. We won't mock you for it.

"...The main issue is that they conclude that the rigour and honesty of the CRU scientists is not in doubt. For anyone who knows Phil Jones and his colleagues this comes as no surprise, and we are very pleased to have this proclaimed so vigorously. Secondly, they conclude that none of the emails cast doubt on the integrity and conclusions of the IPCC, again, something we have been saying since the beginning. They also conclude as we did that there was no ‘corruption’ of the peer-review process. Interestingly, they independently analysed the public domain temperature data themselves to ascertain whether the could validate the CRU record. They managed this in two days, somewhat undermining claims that the CRU temperature data was somehow manipulated inappropriately. (Note that this exercise has been undertaken by a number of people since November – all of which show that the CRU results are robust)."
~ http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...ussell-report/

LOL...the center of "no shame in abusing truth for political ends" fires up the white-washing guns and sprays a greywashing report (misrepresenting its mixed conclusions and turning it into a full vindication) AND fails to note that the authors did a half hearted and unserious job.

For anyone want to find out the truth rather than play "my side wins." You will find both the report and the critics to be of interest.

For example, did you know that they didn't even bother to interview the victims of the censoring who were stonewalled? Are are you aware that they simply relied on the characterizations of the disputed work as provided by the perpitrators, but did not bother to contact those who made the criticisms of thier methods ?

As any investigator would tell you, that is a half assed and half hearted investigation.

Among the interesting ciriticisms from McKittrich, McIntyre, Pielke, and Pierce:

http://climateaudit.org/2010/07/07/fred-pearces-column/
http://climateaudit.org/2010/07/07/you-cant-be-serious/
http://climateaudit.org/2010/07/07/11367/
http://climateaudit.org/2010/07/07/l...de-them-do-it/
post #9 of 29
lets keep the grant money flowing and continue the hoax to control the people, and continue the anticapitalism rant. science is self correcting, this isn't science it's political extortion.
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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post #10 of 29
Well I'm glad this is all settled. By the way, it's m-o-r-o-n, not "moran."
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #11 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

This third nail firmly seals the Denialists coffin tightly shut.

Denialist + Climategate = "Shut the bleep up you moran".

I thought it would be appropriate to give our resident Denialists a chance to admit that they were wrong all along. Please Denialists, take this opportunity to repent in this specially designed thread. We won't mock you for it.

Hands Sandon and Sammi Jo are such cards. Are they serious?

Let’s see, the cause of the controversy were hacked/leaked email exchanges that suggested there might be an manipulation and suppression of data (among other unethical actions). The “independent” Russell panelists were charged to examine any and all information held at CRU, including all emails, in order to discover the extent of their suspect doings and to find out if they were at odds with scientific practice and therefore may have badly tainted their science research.

So what did this panel do?

Well Muir Russell and other panelists did not even bother to attend the interviews of the suspects. And even though they were obligated to examine all the CRU emails (of which the hacked emails only represented a tiny portion) they were totally unsccussful. Why? Because, they said, the police was examining the evidence, and besides there was too much to look at, and besides, they consulted with the UAE attorneys (the fellows that supervised CRU) and they suggested it might cause legal troubles for the institutiion.

LOL…Hopefully this hapless Muir crew never quits their day jobs to become real private or police investigators. If I were under investigation I’d love it if these wanna-be detectives said “Oh Mr. Parrish, you may have been guilty of wrong doing but a) you have too many records to look at, and b) we sought the advice of your attorney and he said it would be a bad idea”.

As laughable as this cover story is, it becomes even more dubious when one actually reviews the sequence of events, the gaps and/or ginned documented timelines, and the actual comments of the technical expert hired to go through CRU emails.

http://climateaudit.org/2010/07/09/t...er/#more-11414
Quote:
This is now 4 and 1/2 months after Muir Russell’s appointment – it took (at most) two weeks to coordinate with the police and four months for Muir Russell to get around to it.

The April 28 minutes report that an analyst has been engaged by UEA – this is now 5 months from the release of the dossier….

On May 14, he had been supplied with thumb drives containing all the emails extracted from the back-up server. He reported that he was permitted to examine the emails only under conditions of extreme security…

He stated that the emails were in Thunderbird and “time constraints in
preparing this initial report preclude indexing and any form of sophisticated analysis.” He said that analysis might take “several weeks”

Sommer reported on May 17. UEA elected not to authorize the analysis. Muir Russell’s ineptitude and inertia resulted in no attempt being made to even begin an examination of the other emails until late April, and by mid-May, they decided it was already too late to bother.

So the analysist is hired, two weeks later (and a few days after getting CRU email data) he says it might take several weeks to analysize SO then his project is cancelled?

Are they clowns? In more meanings than one - yes.
post #12 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Well I'm glad this is all settled. By the way, it's m-o-r-o-n, not "moran."

Oh, it's m-o-r-a-n. Thanks!
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #13 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Oh, it's m-o-r-a-n. Thanks!

Yes, because reality is what you make it...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #14 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Yes, because reality is what you make it...

OK, this has gone way, way, way too far, so I'll clarify the reference-

This gentleman in the photo is the leader of the Denialists movement and always has been- http://www.lahdee.com/images/moran.jpg
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #15 of 29
Thread Starter 
Oh well, another chance to get down the debt, according to the CBO, being stalled/thwarted by repubs-

"A climate and energy bill now stalled in the Senate would cut the federal deficit by about $19 billion over the next decade, the Congressional Budget Office reported Wednesday.

CBO said the bill, co-sponsored by Sens. John Kerry, D-Mass., and Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., would increase federal revenue by $751 billion from 2011 to 2020, mainly through the sale of carbon credits. It would also increase spending by nearly $732 billion."
~ http://content.usatoday.com/communit...bill-deficit/1

At least they got healthcare reform passed. That helped cut the debt big time, at least according to the CBO. That was a nice saving of $138 billion over the next ten years and maybe $1.3 trillion over the next 20 years.
~ http://newmexicoindependent.com/4985...y-1-3-trillion
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Oh well, another chance to get down the debt, according to the CBO, being stalled/thwarted by repubs-

"A climate and energy bill now stalled in the Senate would cut the federal deficit by about $19 billion over the next decade, the Congressional Budget Office reported Wednesday.

CBO said the bill, co-sponsored by Sens. John Kerry, D-Mass., and Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., would increase federal revenue by $751 billion from 2011 to 2020, mainly through the sale of carbon credits. It would also increase spending by nearly $732 billion."
~ http://content.usatoday.com/communit...bill-deficit/1

So a massive tax increase is stalled by Republicans? Maybe I will vote for one of them in November.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

At least they got healthcare reform passed. That helped cut the debt big time, at least according to the CBO. That was a nice saving of $138 billion over the next ten years and maybe $1.3 trillion over the next 20 years.
~ http://newmexicoindependent.com/4985...y-1-3-trillion

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Oh well, another chance to get down the debt, according to the CBO, being stalled/thwarted by repubs-

"A climate and energy bill now stalled in the Senate would cut the federal deficit by about $19 billion over the next decade, the Congressional Budget Office reported Wednesday.

CBO said the bill, co-sponsored by Sens. John Kerry, D-Mass., and Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., would increase federal revenue by $751 billion from 2011 to 2020, mainly through the sale of carbon credits. It would also increase spending by nearly $732 billion."
~ http://content.usatoday.com/communit...bill-deficit/1

At least they got healthcare reform passed. That helped cut the debt big time, at least according to the CBO. That was a nice saving of $138 billion over the next ten years and maybe $1.3 trillion over the next 20 years.
~ http://newmexicoindependent.com/4985...y-1-3-trillion

Another bad joke? Cutting out the nations debt "big time"? My gosh Handon, where do you get this nonsense?

Now for the sober truth. Let's address the last item, which really belongs in a different thread (the subject being healthcare reform). In order to finance a trillion dollar plus healthcare program (when it is fully operational in 2016) it requires alot of taxes. The taxes will be the on current Medicare users (slashed funding), and various new taxes collected in increased premiums for everyone, health insurance taxes on 'the rich', taxes on branded drugs, taxes on medical devices, and taxes on imported equipment.

It will be a trillion dollar tax (200 billion a year) by 2015-16 over a ten year horizon, for a trillion dollar program.

However, because the taxes & Medicare cuts will start before the program is fully operational, the excess revenues will lower the deficit by a tiny 140 billion dollars for a couple of years (around 2013-14). That will end by 2015. (For some perspective, the current annual deficit is 1.4 trillion and the debt more than 13 Trillion).

To a rational person, someone not afflicted with raging partisan fevers, this hype over deficit reduction is mainly an obvious con, and insignificant in its effects. IF one was interested in reducing the deficit with new taxes and Medicare cuts, then a trillion in new taxes/cuts would normally result in a trillion in deficit reduction (ignoring macro economic growth effects). So why does this not happen? Because 85% is bled off into new health care spending. And by 2016, 100% will be bled off into new spending.

Finally, if one wants to see what a laughable fraud their method of taxing for the purposes of 'deficit reduction' is, suppose we used this method to try and wipe out the current annual deficit (1.4 trillion). It would require a tax of 13 trillion dollars a year (i.e. the whole GNP of the US this year). LOL...

post #18 of 29
Thread Starter 
Most people are aware of the incredible success that cap and trade is having in Europe. Businesses are given financial incentives to pollute less and the money collected goes to improve technologies and offer those on lower incomes a re-imbursment for price increases, though for most of us a little thinking about our energy use will more than compensate for that anyway.

Well Spain, yes the same Spain that won the World Cup, that teeny, teeny little country packed full with self hating Commies, is doing great on the GW front. Read it and weep Denialists-

"Spain has opened the world's largest solar power station, meaning that it overtakes the US as the biggest solar generator in the world. The nation's total solar power production is now equivalent to the output of a nuclear power station.

The new La Florida solar plant takes Spain's solar output to 432MW, which compares with the US output of 422MW.
Protomersolar, the association that represents the solar energy sector, says that within a year another 600MW will have come on-stream and projects that by 2013 solar capacity will have reached 2,500MW.

The northern, though thinly populated, region of Navarra is already producing 75% of its energy from a range of renewables, including wind, solar, hydro and biomass. Spain's windfarms now produce around 20,000MW of electricity and on one day in November they accounted for 53% of demand. Last year, solar energy met 2.8% of demand out a total of 12.9% for all renewables. In March, the government announced a plan to increase the renewable share to 22.7% by 2020, slightly ahead of EU targets."
~ http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...in-solar-power

So in case you missed it, that's more than 5 average sized nuclear power plants by 2013 from solar alone and Spain's wind farms already produce more than 40 nuclear power stations worth of electricity.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Most people are aware of the incredible success that cap and trade is having in Europe...

If you begin your rant with a demonstrative falsehood it is hard to extend belief to your remaining points:

Cap and Trade Doesn't Work
Obama can learn a thing or two from Europe's scheme.
MARTIN LIVERMORE | WALL STREET JOURNAL EUROPE
JUNE 25, 2009
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124587942001349765.html
To get a good idea, U.S. policy makers need only look across the Atlantic. The European Union, keen to show global leadership, introduced the world's first Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) in January 2005, just before the Kyoto protocol came into force.... The biggest abuse began right at the start of the ETS when regulators handed out too many free permits. As a result, utilities companies made windfall profits by simply selling on large numbers of unneeded credits and not passing the savings on to their customers in the form of price cuts. Despite the EU's declared goal to dole out permits based on objective criteria, industry lobbying led to an overallocation. When push comes to shove, governments will always protect their national champions. The German government, for example, negotiated an easing of planned caps on emissions from cars to the advantage of manufacturers of higher-powered cars such as Mercedes-Benz and Porsche... But these are only cosmetic changes to an inherently flawed system. The auctioning of permits may avoid overallocation but instead saddle industry with huge upfront costs. The entire scheme will remain vulnerable to political interference and thus likely fail to reduce carbon emissions. The only certainty is that it will hurt the economy and drive up energy costs.
post #20 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

If you begin your rant with a demonstrative falsehood it is hard to extend belief to your remaining points:

Cap and Trade Doesn't Work
Obama can learn a thing or two from Europe's scheme.
MARTIN LIVERMORE | WALL STREET JOURNAL EUROPE
JUNE 25, 2009
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124587942001349765.html
To get a good idea, U.S. policy makers need only look across the Atlantic. The European Union, keen to show global leadership, introduced the world's first Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) in January 2005, just before the Kyoto protocol came into force.... The biggest abuse began right at the start of the ETS when regulators handed out too many free permits. As a result, utilities companies made windfall profits by simply selling on large numbers of unneeded credits and not passing the savings on to their customers in the form of price cuts. Despite the EU's declared goal to dole out permits based on objective criteria, industry lobbying led to an overallocation. When push comes to shove, governments will always protect their national champions. The German government, for example, negotiated an easing of planned caps on emissions from cars to the advantage of manufacturers of higher-powered cars such as Mercedes-Benz and Porsche... But these are only cosmetic changes to an inherently flawed system. The auctioning of permits may avoid overallocation but instead saddle industry with huge upfront costs. The entire scheme will remain vulnerable to political interference and thus likely fail to reduce carbon emissions. The only certainty is that it will hurt the economy and drive up energy costs.

Wow that's old news. They've since made it impossible for companies to do that.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #21 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Wow that's old news. They've since made it impossible for companies to do that.

He provided his evidence, now you provide yours on how it is working brilliantly.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #22 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

He provided his evidence, now you provide yours on how it is working brilliantly.

LOL, he took an example of it not working the way it should but from years ago, that's since been 100% remedied.

Here's a few links-

http://web.mit.edu/mitei/research/sp...pe-carbon.html

http://climateprogress.org/2009/08/1...nd-trade-bill/

You might also want to read this. 10 Northeastern states experiences so far with a system that they've already started- http://climateprogress.org/2010/03/2...-carbon-price/
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #23 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

If you begin your rant with a demonstrative falsehood it is hard to extend belief to your remaining points:

Cap and Trade Doesn't Work
Obama can learn a thing or two from Europe's scheme.

Maybe it's because it is originally a Republican idea and was used by Nixon and Bush one to curb sulfur pollution.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

LOL, he took an example of it not working the way it should but from years ago, that's since been 100% remedied.

Here's a few links-

http://web.mit.edu/mitei/research/sp...pe-carbon.html

http://climateprogress.org/2009/08/1...nd-trade-bill/

You might also want to read this. 10 Northeastern states experiences so far with a system that they've already started- http://climateprogress.org/2010/03/2...-carbon-price/

That article was from JUNE 25, 2009. 1 year ago is not that long at all...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #25 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

That article was from JUNE 25, 2009. 1 year ago is not that long at all...

You really are pathetic and a waste of my time. Back on ignore you go.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

LOL, he took an example of it not working the way it should but from years ago, that's since been 100% remedied.

Is English a foreign language for you? June 2009 WAS NOT that long ago and IT WAS during Obama administration.
post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

You really are pathetic and a waste of my time. Back on ignore you go.

Glad you have a helpful response for any questions that might arise from your position.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #28 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

You really are pathetic and a waste of my time. Back on ignore you go.

I guess Hands wants to ignore the valid observation that you are correct, a year old article on a rade system that was starte 5 years is a valid criticism. More amusingly I looked at his MIT link and it said it was posted in Dec of 2008 - well, that trashes Hands "not current" carping.

Hands also claims all that has ALL been fixed, I guess in the last year - a claim that we ought to look at in spite of his trip up. In the meantime I hope Hands knows that most economists think that cap and trade on carbon is a very inefficient and ineffective idea.

For example, the distinguished environmental economist William Nordhaus has done studies on cap and trade vs. carbon taxes and found that cap and trade is pretty poor.

But then "ignore" is a good way to deep a closed mind, is it not?
post #29 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxParrish View Post

I guess Hands wants to ignore the valid observation that you are correct, a year old article on a rade system that was starte 5 years is a valid criticism. More amusingly I looked at his MIT link and it said it was posted in Dec of 2008 - well, that trashes Hands "not current" carping.

Hands also claims all that has ALL been fixed, I guess in the last year - a claim that we ought to look at in spite of his trip up. In the meantime I hope Hands knows that most economists think that cap and trade on carbon is a very inefficient and ineffective idea.

For example, the distinguished environmental economist William Nordhaus has done studies on cap and trade vs. carbon taxes and found that cap and trade is pretty poor.

But then "ignore" is a good way to deep a closed mind, is it not?

I have had to put him on ignore before due to the sheer frustration of dealing with him so I understand the need to take a break. But for this?

Hands, answer the question. Is a year a LONG TIME in any political setting when dealing with legislation on this scale? I put forth that it is not.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
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