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Consumer Reports changes stance, cannot recommend Apple's iPhone 4 - Page 4

post #121 of 405
How ironic. I can't recommend Consumer Reports!

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   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

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post #122 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by iadroidx View Post

As the saying goes.........

One bad "Apple" spoils the whole bunch.



and now back to our regular scheduled progam, Cheers!



May I ask what do you love about posting complete crap. You just like DaHarder but at least he can do something called constructive arguments USING TEXT. Not just posting big images. All I have seen with this so called Android is just some Windows like clone that is shoving itself onto everything just so it can have some market share. There is more problems with Droids than any other phone anyway, and I do hope no more phone companies jump onto this Droid bandwagon. Make you own OS! It's like the computer industry all over again. The true innovators like Palm are crushed and rubbish like Android prevails with it's cheep prices and crappy hardware.

edit:

Just look at the logo for christ sakes! It was designed at play skool... actually no it was designed by Open Source developers, THAT EXPLAINS IT.
post #123 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Irresponsible how?


If he choose to return it, that is fine. Apple has made it easy. At the same time, while it is a real issue, it hardly is the end of the world. I don't like the idea of having to change you behavior to use the phone. I don't like the customer having to buy a case to fix the problem. But, there is a work around.

Pull the pickle out of your ass. Again, while a real problem, it isn't like you can't still use the phone.

Combined with a 2 year contract, this is a multi-thousand dollar purchase.
post #124 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

How ironic. I can't recommend Consumer Reports!

Well, yeah, it does raise questions about all cell phone reviews at CR. Their usual testing says it's great, then, they retest with an apparently different methodology and say it's not great. But, as someone else pointed out, exactly how have they tested all the other cell phones out there? Will they retest them all under the same conditions of the 2nd iPhone test, or was the first iPhone test non-standard? Do they have a reliable methodology or not?
post #125 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Combined with a 2 year contract, this is a multi-thousand dollar purchase.

Yes it is. Again, while a real problem, it isn't like you can't still use the phone.

Aside from the antenna problem (real and serious) the 4 is just so much better a device. All I am saying is to weigh the options available. Both have merit.

Apparently, thinking an issue through and thoughtfully considering all options is 'irresponsible' to you.

Whatever.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #126 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Nah, Steve was probably 100% behind Jonny Ives on this one and they were both loving it. Get my drift?

Loving my iPad though, hey, Apple's not perfect, they just went one design step too far on the iPhone4.

Clearly a case where function should've won over form (aesthetics). Even if Ive insisted there would be a problem, Jobs would bulldozer his final judgment over all objections. $@#*!

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #127 of 405
Well... Well... Well, This Certainly Is Interesting
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #128 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Gilling View Post

... You just like DaHarder but at least he can do something called constructive arguments ...

OK, that's a bit of a stretch.
post #129 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Yes it is. Again, while a real problem, it isn't like you can't still use the phone.

Aside from the antenna problem (real and serious) the 4 is just so much better a device. All I am saying is to weigh the options available. Both have merit.

Apparently, thinking an issue through and thoughtfully considering all options is 'irresponsible' to you.

Whatever.

samab would prefer you buy a CDMA phone.
post #130 of 405
I'd guess that probably 95% of people are really happy with their new iPhone. I am. Performance-wise, in every aspect, it's the best iPhone yet.

I've known that my previous 3G had the internal antenna in the lower third of the body of the phone. It makes no sense to cup your hand around any antenna and expect optimum performance. So I hold either phone by the top and leave the bottom free. Not a big deal to learn this behavior.

When driving - I put the phone on the dash and use a headset. Antenna problem is a non-issue.

And I got a case for protection. Added benefit is now when I hold it, lets say for sending messages, I won't in contact with that problematic lower left corner.

For me this is a big non-issue.

But still Apple blew it. Any antenna design engineer should have known that letting the antenna conductor contact the hand would de-tune the antenna and absorb signal. Is this a recall situation? IMHO-no. Should Apple offer some kind of case "free" to anyone having a problem - Yes.

Of course some people will never let this go. And they will miss out on owning the best smartphone currently on the market.
post #131 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Yes it is. Again, while a real problem, it isn't like you can't still use the phone.

Aside from the antenna problem (real and serious) the 4 is just so much better a device. All I am saying is to weigh the options available. Both have merit.

Apparently, thinking an issue through and thoughtfully considering all options is 'irresponsible' to you.

Whatever.

Agreed...but which would you rather have, an original 4g or a redesigned 4g?
post #132 of 405
What a surprise - it's no a Toyota Camray so they don't like it
post #133 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Am I the only one that actually *likes* the new antenna design? I have used a few cellphones and it always annoyed me how you could never seriously tell what the signal was and how there was seemingly no relation between the bars and the signal you are getting. It was all so vague.

Frankly, I never look at the bars unless there's a problem and I can't make a call. So far, I've never had any problem making a call with my iPhone 4. In fact, warts and all, it works better than my iPhone 3 or any of the other phones in the household.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

This is a non issue. The only "problem" is the bar display, which is going to be improved in a software update real soon now.

That is not correct. There are at least 3 unrelated problems and it would be really helpful if people would stop confusing them.

1. Error in reporting # of bars (actually, not an error, just a bad way of reporting). This can make it look like your signal is stronger than it really is, so you may lose calls even if you have a lot of bars. Will be fixed with a software fix.

2. Decrease in signal with hand covering antenna. This happens on any phone ever made. Under some tests, the drop may be worse on the iPhone under some conditions, but since the iPhone's antenna is more sensitive than other phones, the two effects may balance each other. Only becomes a problem in very weak signal areas - and can be fixed by holding your phone differently.

3. Decrease in signal from touching the two antennae. This is the same effect as any external antenna would have. Anyone over the age of 45 probably remembers fidding with TV anntennas to try to get a good signal. This problem is unique to the iPhone. It can be addressed by holding the phone differently or buying a case. The trade-off is that you get better reception than other phones due to the external antenna.

You may decide that it's not worth holding the phone differently. If so, the iPhone isn't for you. But so far, the majority of people are happy with the new iPhone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleZilla View Post

And yet my wife and I were remarking just last night how fantastic our experience with our iPhone 4s have been. I guess we'll throw them away.

Not.

Will Consumer Reports retest every cell phone ever made for this phenomena?

No.

Of course CR won't test other phones. They thrive on topics that can stir up a media frenzy. The fact that they were happy with the phone but retested it on the basis of a few complaints is troublesome in itself. That says that a few whiners who find some obscure problem with something that most people don't care about can outweigh millions of happy customers.

I'm with you. My iPhone is the best phone I've ever had.
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post #134 of 405
The fighting over this issue is getting boring.
Why can't people accept that just because you don't have the problem does not mean the problem does not exist.

The Apple press release was terrible. It was obvious they were not telling the whole story.

The good thing about this CR piece is that it forces Apples hand.
They will have to respond. Shareholders will demand it.
post #135 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Um, I've still yet to meet anyone demonstrating that this is a 'problem'.

Again...
"Doc... it hurts when I do this."
"Then don't do that".

Move your GD finger a millimeter.

The antenna design is still a vast improvement for those not trying to get in on a phony class action.

Textbook Delusional...
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #136 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Not really, it's pretty obvious.

Apple said it themselves on the open letter

Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

This is a non issue. The only "problem" is the bar display, which is going to be improved in a software update real soon now.

I also think the bar calculation thingy is related to how the OS gets data from the antenna: maybe it stops receiving data when the bars drop even when there's still signal (how come so many tests show that there is almost no difference in speed between 5 and 2 bars?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iadroidx View Post

As the saying goes.........

One bad "Apple" spoils the whole bunch.

and now back to our regular scheduled progam, Cheers!

TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

So, what does a whole lot of shitty droids get you?

A high-tech headache.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazingApple View Post

You may not have "met" anyone that can show you the problem, so you may choose to not believe what you are being told.

I think he just meant to say this isn't a design flaw.

Quote:
Evidently you are not doing any research on the topic either. There are plenty of clips demonstrating the the ability to drop calls and stop data downloads on que. Speed tests confirm it as well. Keep in mind that if you try to replicate these tests in areas with very strong AT&T signal, you will fail to reproduce it. This is why some folks are having great service, while others experience significant problems. It seems like many areas I travel to in the U.S. has less than ideal signal strength.

Well, duh. In my school some rooms get a really poor signal, and laying my hand in front of my iPod Touch's antenna does the same thing. IT'S NOT A DESIGN FLAW

Quote:
coworkers and I all have the new iPhone 4 and all of us can drop calls and stop data downloads on que by just holding the phone with two fingers. No need to use any kind of squeezing death grip. It is so easy to do that we will routinely terminate the call in this manner with friends just for the fun of it. We all had 3GS iPhones previously with no reception problems whatsoever.

Well that's a frickin lie

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtDecoDalek View Post

So they're screwing AT&T by using the formula that AT&T recommends. Indeed, your logic is irrefutable.

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post #137 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleysm View Post

But that's exactly what he's saying. What appears to be 5 full bars to you, could really be a 3-bar signal area, and maybe not even a stable one at that.
I've been in areas where, standing still, the signal will flucuate between 2-4 bars for no obvious reason.

Fixing the software will not fix the hardware design problem, but it will at least let you know for certain what the true signal strength is when the problem occurs. so we can make a valid determination. Remember, right now 5 bars is probably not 5 bars.

Really!? If I was actually getting five, how many would it show?
post #138 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Agreed...but which would you rather have, an original 4g or a redesigned 4g?

Obviously, I'd like the one that has been fixed. A full redesign probably isn't likely, just a coating during manufacturing. We still don't have a release date for Canada, so I am hoping things will settle down by then. Realistically, if they haven't made changes to their process at this point, the initial stock for Canada will be the same as the US stock.

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...sometimes it's both
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...sometimes it's both
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post #139 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You really cant see a difference between CR and others testing and reporting on an issue with a bunch of Chicken Littles claiming the sky is falling because an acorn fell on their head? Anyone can make absolute claims to something, and they may be occasionally correct, but without a cogent argument to back up claim its all just emotion driven dramatics.

CR's conclusions still don't make sense as RF does not behave like electrical current. A simple piece of tape shouldn't make a difference.

Besides, all that matters for me is real world performance vs. theoretical pontificating. The iPhine 4 beats the pants off of the 3Gs in actual usage - without a case. I haven't used on before and I have no intention of bulking up my phone now with useless plastic or rubber.
post #140 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

RF engineers have said that contact is not the issue, blocking signal is. If they are right this whole coating or tape issue is a non-starter. Even if it was it wouldn't be Apple's style to have people lined up at their stores to get their phones fixed. More likely, if a physical fix is necessary/possible, they will simply exchange the phone for a new one. The old phones will be fixed at a facility, then re-sold as used at a reduced price.

I expect it will be quite a while before we are done with this story. Both sides, haters and fans, will have their good days and bad days. Meanwhile, my phone is being delivered today and I am very excited to test it and see what all the hubbub is about.

I have a had time believing this has nothing to do with contact because of two reasons:

1) Tape and bumpers would not help unless it was a contact issue. Consumer reports specifically stated that duct tape over the seam alleviated the problems they were experiencing.

2) The problem can be replicated by using a paper clip to bridge the seam with minimal obstruction of the antenna. Of course, this test doesn't exactly duplicate real world scenarios, but it does demonstrate an extreme of what people (and consumer reports) are complaining about.

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post #141 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

Here's the full quote:

"Consumer Reports' engineers have just completed testing the iPhone 4, and have confirmed that there is a problem with its reception. When your finger or hand touches a spot on the phone's lower left sidean easy thing, especially for leftiesthe signal can significantly degrade enough to cause you to lose your connection altogether if you're in an area with a weak signal. Due to this problem, we can't recommend the iPhone 4."

IF YOU'RE IN AN AREA WITH A WEAK SIGNAL.

How weak, and how much weaker does it need to be before other phones also lose the connection? In other words, we need the problem quantified.

All Essentially Irrelevant, As It Shouldn't Be Happening At All... Especially as the result of an obviously flawed design.
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post #142 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Do they have a reliable methodology or not?


Just look at the results they obtained. The answer should be obvious.

Will they retest once the software is updated? This is a non issue.
post #143 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plagen View Post

Well, they are good if you need to buy a lawn sprinkler or a washing machine
For hi-tech - cameras, cell phone - agree, don't even bother to read them.

But a lot of hi-tech gadget manufacturers are hyping stuff that consumers will never see a difference. Maybe a dog can hear the difference between CD and SACD, normal people can't.

I would rather spend a few hundreds dollars less on a no-name LCD HDTV and use that saving to buy myself a spyder color calibration puck. If you want the best calibrated home theater system, you are supposed to turn off all those useless enhancements.
post #144 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvh View Post

I'd guess that probably 95% of people are really happy with their new iPhone.


More like 99.9%.

Buy a bumper. Update the software.

Then it will be 100%.
post #145 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandau View Post

No issues here. For those that have issues, return it. - Get whatever flavour of droid that takes your fancy. just STFU and get on with life.

Spend your time doing something about the gulf spill. Contact your reps in congress, put your fat mouth to work for something worthwhile!

Suggestion: Look in the mirror, and recite these very words to the reflection you see...
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post #146 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Good for you little wussies. Return, boycott, do what you want.
That may eventually shorten waiting lists in zones of decent reception.

i'm a wussie because the iPhone 4 get poor reception?? you are a complete moron.
post #147 of 405
I hope a number of people take Consumer Report's recommendation. That means I will have a better chance of getting my IPhone faster. I was going to buy a case anyway. The reception deception will be no problem for me.
post #148 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwee View Post

The good thing about this CR piece is that it forces Apples hand.
They will have to respond. Shareholders will demand it.


They have ALREADY responded. The "problem" will be fixed in software.

But in the meantime, the media will be in a frenzy.
post #149 of 405
Would be nice to see an official response from Apple.

really like using Apple's products but cant see getting the new phone

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post #150 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

CR's conclusions still don't make sense as RF does not behave like electrical current. A simple piece of tape shouldn't make a difference.

Besides, all that matters for me is real world performance vs. theoretical pontificating. The iPhine 4 beats the pants off of the 3Gs in actual usage - without a case. I haven't used on before and I have no intention of bulking up my phone now with useless plastic or rubber.

Not electrical so there is no short circuiting, but it can alter the length of the antenna which I know can cause added attenuation and interference.

What isnt clear is if this can be dealt with a SW update that allows for a powerful radio transmission to counter any issues one might have, a driver update that allows the chip to understand variances better, or some other SW resolution.

All we know is that a lot of people are having an issue when they do certain thing. Note that this doesnt seem to happen with 2G and its apparently better for WiFI when you do bridge the antennas. This tells me that a SW update is still an option.
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post #151 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

CR's conclusions still don't make sense as RF does not behave like electrical current. A simple piece of tape shouldn't make a difference.

Besides, all that matters for me is real world performance vs. theoretical pontificating. The iPhine 4 beats the pants off of the 3Gs in actual usage - without a case. I haven't used on before and I have no intention of bulking up my phone now with useless plastic or rubber.

If you were completely right, why would apple even separate the two antennas? Aren't they separate and insulated from each other for a reason?

The seams are very un-Apple and I would think if you were right there would be no need for them.

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post #152 of 405
Just look at some of the crap they do recommend.
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post #153 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

I usually trust Consumer Reports but the flip-flopping makes me call into question their "buyer beware" message. Has anyone experienced real time issues with the reception and call quality of the iPhone 4?

I am glad I am not an early adopter. It seems to me that Apple will have to do a recall...

To date, I haven't had a problem. I'm quite happy with iPhone 4.
post #154 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrisar View Post

No one told CR that the consumer's grip is the issue, not the iPhone4?


Apparently not.

The real question, however, is whether CR will retract this story once the software fix is released?
post #155 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Yes it is. Again, while a real problem, it isn't like you can't still use the phone.

Aside from the antenna problem (real and serious) the 4 is just so much better a device. All I am saying is to weigh the options available. Both have merit.

Apparently, thinking an issue through and thoughtfully considering all options is 'irresponsible' to you.

Whatever.

Yes, both have merits if given all the caveats are listed --- but in your initial post, you never talked about these options or the seriousness of the problems. You merely said that "just buy a case". You even said that returning the phone is a trouble.
post #156 of 405
C'mon Apple. Even Scotty couldn't change the laws of physics.
post #157 of 405
I wonder if they'll do a revision 2? Do Apple even do hardware revisions? I know it's quite common for most other electronics manufacturers.

I would seem a shame to get locked in a contract if an r2 is going to turn up in a couple of months.
post #158 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Nah, Steve was probably 100% behind Jonny Ives on this one and they were both loving it. Get my drift?

Loving my iPad though, hey, Apple's not perfect, they just went one design step too far on the iPhone4.

What does the random homophobic remark add to anything? Even if Steve Jobs was gay (I know he isn't), and even if him and Jonny Ive were a couple, what would that have to do with anything?

This isn't 1974, the mere mention of gays is neither funny, risque, nor relevant all by itself. You've done this about five times that I can recall already, please stop. It's just not funny to chime in with some cryptic, off-topic reference to anal sex on a tech blog unless you are basically twelve years old or, (as I said above), still living in 1974.

I get it, OK? Your a homophobe, or maybe just a gay-hater, that much is crystal clear. It just doesn't have any relevance to this forum or any of the discussions we have on it.
post #159 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

All Essentially Irrelevant, As It Shouldn't Be Happening At All... Especially as the result of an obviously flawed design.

DaHarder, you're a known troll. Everything you post is "essentially irrelevant".
post #160 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by numba1 View Post

I hope a number of people take Consumer Report's recommendation. That means I will have a better chance of getting my IPhone faster. I was going to buy a case anyway. The reception deception will be no problem for me.

Totally in agreement. I've been waiting over a week now and hoping it won't actually take 3 weeks. My 3G battery is damaged and it's pretty much useless unless it is plugged in... So I'm hoping for sooner rather than later.
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