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Consumer Reports changes stance, cannot recommend Apple's iPhone 4 - Page 5

post #161 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

This is a non issue. The only "problem" is the bar display, which is going to be improved in a software update real soon now.


I love my iphone 4, but that is simply not true. If I do not use my rubber case I have problems and will experience call drops. With a case its better then my 3gs. Apple can fix this with bumpers or possibly coatings but there is a problem.
post #162 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

I'm an Apple fanboi, but this is f-ed up.

The company needs to swallow their pride and fix this issue.

I mean, c'mon, it took them 3 years to realize that there was a bug in the code that displays the signal bars? Give me an f-ing break. The code these guys work on would melt a Cray supercomputer, and a bug like that gets by them? If that's the case, the entire iPhone software team should be fired.

I am taking my iPhone 4 into an Apple Store this week to get a refund, and a replacement 3GS. And I also need to convince my wife that she's not getting the white iPhone she thinks she's getting later this month.

My thoughts exactly.
I returned my iPhone 4G and cancelled the line it was on with AT&T.
I have 2 other iphone 3Gs on the account that are not going away.
I am a huge Apple supported.....search my posts and you will not see me putting them down. But they dropped the ball on this entire issue. It would be differnt if they stood up and took ownership but they are not doing that...they are running from it..
Also they did not chage me any fees to return it as well. Nor did AT&T to cancell my line that was attached to the iPhone 4G
BUT on another note i just bought a brand new 15" MBP i7 and it ROCKS!

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post #163 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeltsBear View Post

I love my iphone 4, but that is simply not true. If I do not use my rubber case I have problems and will experience call drops. With a case its better then my 3gs. Apple can fix this with bumpers or possibly coatings but there is a problem.



They can also issue a software fix, which is what they told us they are going to do.
post #164 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonder View Post

Just hold the phone against your ear, but not pressed against your face. It works great.

It works great unless you stubbornly require moving your head at any point during a call... as in when walking, looking around, seated at your desk looking for a paper, switching the phone from one side of your head to the other (because your left hand "death grip" is about to cause the call to drop), etc.

Trust, I am as big an Apple fan as anybody and in almost every other product I am extremely satisfied. Although, the iPhone 4 does have two REAL issues that I know of because I suffer from them both. The combination does indeed seem to make the phone almost unusable in many cases.

The first issue is the proximity sensor, which for me is arguably the worse of the two, and from the research I have done is probably a simple SW fix because the sensor does work and it seems to work reliably. It seems that what it needs is for the decision to toggle the display on/off to be filtered through a hysteresis function; and it seem the 3G(s) has exactly this (YouTube demonstration of iPhone 4 vs iPhone 3GS proximity sensor.

The second issue, the reception dropping to zero AND disconnecting my call, is also valid and quite problematic. I have no idea if this is a hardware or software fix, I simply do not have enough information; I will say that as a veteran software engineer, some pretty amazing workarounds can be attained in software leaving the user with exactly the experience they paid for. The interesting part of this problem for me is that everybody claims it is only in areas of already "weak" signal. I personally have a AT&T MicroCell which, when I am sitting 1 foot from it, I can hold the phone anyway I like. When I am standing around 20 feet from it the bars drop from 5 to 0/"Searching" when held in a way that covers the problem area. When held in the prescribed way (or not at all using a headset) I still will lose the call quite frequently and/or have call quality so low that I can't understand the person with whom I am talking. Realize I am talking about 20 feet and direct line of sight. I can't see how that possibly qualifies as a "weak" signal. My 3GS had neither of these issues ever with the same MicroCell located in the same place.

My big problem with these issues is that both the die-hard fanboys seem unwilling or unable to admit that some mistakes have been made, whether they be fixable through hardware or software.

A final interesting point is that AppleCare on Thursday night did admit to me that there are problems with the iPhone 4 (in both the proximity sensor and signal reception). This was after I went to the Apple store earlier that day and they replaced my phone with a new phone because of these two problems and the new phone behaved exactly the same way. I was then offered a free case for the time being in hopes of alleviating some of the reception problems... although when it came time to send me one the manager I was working with needed to have me "talk to somebody else" and was going to have them call me... as yet I have no free case on the way. This may mean she wasn't authorized to say it was a problem or that she wasn't authorized to give away a free case or simply that they are very busy and haven't been able to get back to me yet.

My dollar and 2 cents.
post #165 of 405
i guess duct tape does fix everything and should i still get an iphone because i need one before schools starts
post #166 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naboozle View Post

C'mon Apple. Even Scotty couldn't change the laws of physics.

I think slingshotting around the sun to go "back in time" might qualify.
post #167 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by tt92618 View Post

Totally in agreement. I've been waiting over a week now and hoping it won't actually take 3 weeks. My 3G battery is damaged and it's pretty much useless unless it is plugged in... So I'm hoping for sooner rather than later.

A two year old phone with a completely dead battery? Id be getting a replacement. That sounds like a faulty battery to me.
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post #168 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeltsBear View Post

I love my iphone 4, but that is simply not true. If I do not use my rubber case I have problems and will experience call drops. With a case its better then my 3gs. Apple can fix this with bumpers or possibly coatings but there is a problem.

No offense, but if you get dropped calls that doesn't mean you have any more of a problem than with any other cell phone. CR specifically says the problem only happens when you're in an area with a weak signal. I can drop my iPhone 3g's signal just by holding it in a "normal" manner versus laying it on a table.
post #169 of 405
Let me tell you something. The FDA won't even approve a cure for cancer because it would devastate the multibillion dollar cancer treatment industry. And CR is as subjugated to corporate corruption as anyone else.
I have had the iphone 4 for two weeks and not a freaking thing has happen reception wise.
Yeah I saw a bar drop in the Apple store but if you get a case it won't happen.
I cupped my unprotected iphone 4 in my hand for like five minutes at home and didn't witness a single bar loss.
I love the this phone and the pictures it takes are awesome. And the flash works so well I was shocked. I took a picture of a plant in the courtyard of my hotel(job) and it was pitch black out there. Dang! The picture came out superb.
post #170 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

DaHarder, you're a known troll. Everything you post is "essentially irrelevant".

Being labeled a 'troll' by irrational fanatics who wouldn't recognize/acknowledge the truth if it was permanently tattooed in reverse on their foreheads is actually quite the complement -
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #171 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

CR's conclusions still don't make sense as RF does not behave like electrical current. A simple piece of tape shouldn't make a difference.

Antennas are tuned to a specific frequency range (or harmonic thereof). That's why the seam exists and divides the antennas asymmetrically -- allowing the 2 antennas to be tuned to different bands. Both conductance and capacitance are involved in skin contact. An insulating layer should have thickness as well being non-conductive.
post #172 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post


In my school some rooms get a really poor signal, and laying my hand in front of my iPod Touch's antenna does the same thing. IT'S NOT A DESIGN FLAW

Can you also pick it up with two fingers and get data transfer to stop? I doubt it. What would YOU call it when this IS possible with the iP4, and that cannot be duplicated with the 3GS nor 3G in the same locations?
post #173 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

And CR is as subjugated to corporate corruption as anyone else.



I disagree. CR is much more subjugated to corporate corruption than Apple is.
post #174 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by kent909 View Post

There are many issues with technology in general. The current iPhone 4 problem is just one of them. The thing that amazes me is that if I were to buy an iPhone 4 and use it to replace my Vonage phone my monthly bill would go from $30 to $104 minumum. Why is no one complaining about how much money to costs to use one of these phones. They may be smart phones, but the people using them are not real smart.

The obvious answer is that we know how much it costs going in, so there's no misrepresentation there. As to how "smart" the users are, the users feel that the benefits of having the iPhone more than outweigh the cost. For those who feel otherwise, well, they won't purchase one.

Your comment generally lacks any hint of "smart."
post #175 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

I usually trust Consumer Reports but the flip-flopping makes me call into question their "buyer beware" message. (...)

They did not flip-flopped, the initial blog entry was wrongly and misleadingly reported as a "review" while it was not: it was one individual giving his narrow POV. The day after he claimed that he could indeed reproduce the issue, but strangely (sic) AI between others have chosen to not update their "story" with this guy new findings...

Now that the -real- review has been done, things are clarified.
post #176 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

Let me tell you something. The FDA won't even approve a cure for cancer because it would devastate the multibillion dollar cancer treatment industry. And CR is as subjugated to corporate corruption as anyone else.
I have had the iphone 4 for two weeks and not a freaking thing has happen reception wise.
Yeah I saw a bar drop in the Apple store but if you get a case it won't happen.
I cupped my unprotected iphone 4 in my hand for like five minutes at home and didn't witness a single bar loss.

So because you don't experience the problem it means that nobody does? I currently have strep throat... thank god my doctor doesn't use your logic.

"Well I hear what your saying but my throat feels perfectly fine.... so I simply cannot see how you could have Strep!?"
post #177 of 405
Engadget confirms as well, with some of their phones dropping calls and experiencing reduced Internet speeds:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/12/c...ems-and-so-do/
post #178 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

They can also issue a software fix, which is what they told us they are going to do.

A software fix won't solve disconnected calls, but likely will rectify the "bars issue" of dropping from 5 bars to fewer bars.
post #179 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Engadget confirms as well, with some of their phones dropping calls and experiencing reduced Internet speeds:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/12/c...ems-and-so-do/

The issue is that those are F A C T S, which never appear to matter to most of these 'individuals' -
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #180 of 405
It seems clear that many commenting on this issue do not have a real grasp on what the problem is. It is not a reception problem as much as it is an interference problem, and there are some that do know what it doing on when they mention the antenna is lacking the appropriate coating. That coating would prevent you shorting the signal; this is why the bumper works. If it was a reception problem, the bumper would do nothing, so comparing this issue to other cell phone makers that have what appears to be a similar issue is not quite so, the other issue really has more to do with you blocking the signal with your hand. This is a relatively easy fix, and likely doesn't affect ALL iPhone 4s as I think it is a manufacturing problem and not as much a design flaw; likely the appropriate coating didn't make it onto all of the antennas.

This also could also be a case of body chemistry interfering with the coating, that would be an interesting find as well.
post #181 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

A two year old phone with a completely dead battery? Id be getting a replacement. That sounds like a faulty battery to me.

Not under warranty, so Apple is not offering me a replacement. Plus, what happened to it may have something to do with the number of times my 21 month old boy got ahold of it and dropped it.

In any case, It isn't totally dead... But whenever the phone needs higher power (such as when making a call or using 3G data) it will shut itself sown and restart unless plugged in.

Thought about a 3GS for awhile, or even just getting the 3G repaired... But can't bring myself to spend $80 on a rebuilt 3G, or $100 plus a new contract on a 3GS... When I would really prefer the i4.
post #182 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazingApple View Post

Can you also pick it up with two fingers and get data transfer to stop? I doubt it. What would YOU call it when this IS possible with the iP4, and that cannot be duplicated with the 3GS nor 3G in the same locations?

If you get dropped calls that doesn't mean you have any more of a problem than with any other cell phone. CR specifically says the problem only happens when you're in an area with a weak signal. I can drop my iPhone 3g's signal just by holding it in a "normal" manner versus laying it on a table. In my house, where unfortunately I get a lot of dropped calls, I use the speakerphone and put the phone down (which is why my wife insists we wait to upgrade until the Verizon iPhone comes out).
post #183 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Yes, both have merits if given all the caveats are listed --- but in your initial post, you never talked about these options or the seriousness of the problems. You merely said that "just buy a case". You even said that returning the phone is a trouble.

Because it is a hassle to return it and then get a 3GS. Buying a case would seem, to me, to be the lesser of two evils and you end up with an otherwise great device compared to going with the 3GS.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #184 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I think slingshotting around the sun to go "back in time" might qualify.

That strategy might not "break" the laws of physics per se.
post #185 of 405
I've really been astonished by the sales of the iPhone 4. The design, to me, is a step backwards. It looks awkward and inelegant. Where Apple has always been about a clean, simple, ONE-PIECE, design, the iPhone 4 looks like a couple slaps sandwiching a couple wire bands. Putting a hideous "bumper" on it is laughable.

An acquaintance purchased one and said he loved it but didn't like the bumper and was having issues hanging up on people due to the faulty proximity sensor (this was before it became a known issue so it wasn't as if he had just read it.) Sorry, but those two things along with the design are deal breakers for me. My 3GS is just fine. Maybe if the iPhone 4had a bigger screen I'd be interested but there is really very little new here.

I somewhat understand how Apple missed on the antenna issue as they field test their phones in a case made to look like the 3GS (although you would have thought someone would test it around campus with it off.) But I don't understand how they messed up the proximity sensor when it worked just fine on all the previous versions. Rushed to market due to the lost tester maybe?

What really sucks is I guess now I have to wait a couple years for the iPhone 5

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post #186 of 405
Ireland's jump the shark, eh?
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #187 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

An RF engineer interviewed by Leo LaPorte and referenced on latest MacBreak weekly podcast stated categorically that this business of bridging the two antennas with skin is pure nonsense.

He also said he didn't have an iPhone 4 (because he's Canadian) and that the fact that that was nonsense was his best guess. At least if you're going to defend Apple get the whole picture.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #188 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by tt92618 View Post

Not under warranty, so Apple is not offering me a replacement. Plus, what happened to it may have something to do with the number of times my 21 month old boy got ahold of it and dropped it.

In any case, It isn't totally dead... But whenever the phone needs higher power (such as when making a call or using 3G data) it will shut itself sown and restart unless plugged in.

Thought about a 3GS for awhile, or even just getting the 3G repaired... But can't bring myself to spend $80 on a rebuilt 3G, or $100 plus a new contract on a 3GS... When I would really prefer the i4.

Not everything has the same warranty or even a stated warranty to be covered. Batteries are one option that are typically covered well after the mnufacturers warranty. Apple has always dealt with sort of thing well, from my experiences. Even 3.5 years after a battery has machine has been bought theyve replaced a battery for free. I think the 3G has a rating of 300 charges before the battery drops to 80%.

Products with defective batteries are always a potential lawsuit for companies as these few that get through can pose serious harm, thus costing a company a lot more than simply offering a replacement.

Now, if there is sufficient wear and tear on it that could lead one to believe its been abused then the situation changes, but it doesnt mean you wont get lucky. If this is not the case I think youd be eligible for a refurbished 3G. Ive even seen a 3G get replaced after the warranty before the Mute button fell off.
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post #189 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

Considering the attitude of the community here for the most part as well as robust sales, I'm sure most people wont mind it if their smartphone can't make phone calls. All Steve has to do is crank up the reality distortion field and everything will be fine. All you stock holders can relax.

Some good news for you. Today is the very last day of my AT&T two year agreement and I'm out. I strongly believe that one shouldn't post here unless they actually own the product in question so this shall be my final attempt to make the community here see reason. Here it goes:

It is madness to own an expensive smart phone when it can't make simple telephone calls.

There. I said it and you heard it or you didn't.

Hope to post something again in the rare chance that anyone here wants to talk about the Mac and not the bloody iPad and iPhone. They really should consider renaming this site iPhone insider in my opinion.

Have a great day and hey, call me sometime.

Wow, Jersey jumps ship.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #190 of 405
Hard as I try, I cannot get the signal to drop on my iPhone 4.
post #191 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Ireland, is it you speaking there?

No, this is me.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #192 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Hard as I try, I cannot get the signal to drop on my iPhone 4.

You can't get it to drop bars, you mean? Consumer Reports is referring to decibels.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #193 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

Exactly. When the software fix comes, all these haters at CR will eat their words.



Actually, sounds like any 'haters' are here...
post #194 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandiTT View Post

So I think the overall reception and range of the iPhone 4 is better than on my previous model. And I don't really give much about the amount of bars on the screen . What counts for me is that I have fewer dropped calls

Despite the growing body of evidence that "holding the phone incorrectly causes a drop in signal bars" is a reproducible phenomena, I have to agree that I'm yet to detect a "real" (e.g. dropped calls, no data access) problem. And the iPhone 4 has been a radical improvement to my iPhone 3G, from which I upgraded.

But, it's certainly making these discussion boards more entertaining...
post #195 of 405
Apple needs to move the antenna to the very bottom of the phone.

It would actually be an ideal spot:

1) away from the hand (grip)

2) at the farthest end of the phone (and your head)

Of course, they will need to reposition the speakers which are located at the very bottom as well
post #196 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Clearly a case where function should've won over form (aesthetics). Even if Ive insisted there would be a problem, Jobs would bulldozer his final judgment over all objections. $@#*!

Why aren't other Apple shareholders honest about this, like you? Thanks for sticking around Spam.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #197 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr O View Post

Apple needs to move the antenna to the very bottom of the phone.

It would actually be an ideal spot:

1) away from the hand (grip)

2) at the farthest end of the phone (and your head)

Of course, they will need to reposition the speakers which are located at the very bottom as well

Apple doesn't have to do any of that. In the video duct tape solved the problem. They have to put some kind of coating or treatment on the metal band so the hand doesn't come in contact with it.

With that solution the iPhone 4 could theoretically have better reception than every other smartphone out there.
post #198 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Well... Well... Well, This Certainly Is Interesting

The Boy Who Cried Wolf.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #199 of 405
FWIW, I've had my iPhone 4 for 2 weeks now and can't complain about anything except that, for some reason, it consistently reports 1 less bar of signal strength than my wife's iPhone 3G (not that this has caused any problems however). My proximity sensor has been perfect and I wasn't having signal issues. I haven't dropped a call yet and now that I've gotten a case, I can say that my phone is just about perfect. BTW, I've always had cases for my iPhones and it has nothing to do with the signal issue many are having. Yeah, I could return it for a 3GS, but I'd be giving up a much better screen, very good battery life, a very nice camera (for a phone) and an overall great phone. But then, that's just me.
post #200 of 405
Here's my take. There is obviously a problem affecting some (who knows how many) phones. It seems that it is a small percentage of the total sold. But for those who have the bad ones, it's a big issue. They are not nuts just because someone else's phone works fine. My sense is that a bad batch or two were shipped. I have never been impressed with the Chinese regarding QC. So now Apple has to confirm what the issue is with the bad ones and correct it which is what they are probably doing right now. If I had a bad one I would just return it. And wait for the issue to be fixed. The returned ones will be fixed and sold as refurbs. It just doesn't seem as though, judging by how many people are raving (positively) about the phone, that is a universal issue or one just limited to low signal areas, etc.
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