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Consumer Reports changes stance, cannot recommend Apple's iPhone 4 - Page 6

post #201 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Engadget confirms as well, with some of their phones dropping calls and experiencing reduced Internet speeds:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/12/c...ems-and-so-do/

Unfortunately, they contradict themselves in their own article. In some places they uncategorically state that the problem affects all iPhones, then, they say their review unit wasn't affected. Then there's the ridiculous claim that CR showed that it affects all iPhones... by testing 3 phones.
post #202 of 405
This is hilarious! I'm a HUGE Apple fanboy most of the time, but when I had an iPhone 4, I would constantly lose all data all together. I would sit there and try to download something, only to finally realize that I had my pinky finger partially covering the black seam. That's just not right, so I returned it. Do what is right... return the iPhone 4 until Apple figures out how to fix it. Until then, I'll be using my iPhone 3G because it works perfectly fine on 2.2.1.

Even *I* can't defend Apple on this stupid mistake. They're hurting their image!
post #203 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

Not Applicable...
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #204 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by thespaz View Post

This is hilarious! I'm a HUGE Apple fanboy most of the time, but when I had an iPhone 4, I would constantly lose all data all together. I would sit there and try to download something, only to finally realize that I had my pinky finger partially covering the black seam. That's just not right, so I returned it. Do what is right... return the iPhone 4 until Apple figures out how to fix it. Until then, I'll be using my iPhone 3G because it works perfectly fine on 2.2.1.

I couldn't go back to my iPhone 3G. The screen looks out of focus compared to my iPhone 4.
post #205 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by thespaz View Post

This is hilarious! I'm a HUGE Apple fanboy most of the time, but when I had an iPhone 4, I would constantly lose all data all together. I would sit there and try to download something, only to finally realize that I had my pinky finger partially covering the black seam. That's just not right, so I returned it. Do what is right... return the iPhone 4 until Apple figures out how to fix it. Until then, I'll be using my iPhone 3G because it works perfectly fine on 2.2.1.

Even *I* can't defend Apple on this stupid mistake. They're hurting their image!

... far more important than 'their image' is the inconvenience this obvious design flaw is causing their customers.
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #206 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

CR's conclusions still don't make sense as RF does not behave like electrical current. A simple piece of tape shouldn't make a difference.

Besides, all that matters for me is real world performance vs. theoretical pontificating. The iPhine 4 beats the pants off of the 3Gs in actual usage - without a case. I haven't used on before and I have no intention of bulking up my phone now with useless plastic or rubber.

While I agree that real world performance is more important than number of bars, your first statement is wrong. In my case, a piece of electrical tape (which is thinner than duct tape) reduced the signal loss - at least as measured by the number of bars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

Just look at the results they obtained. The answer should be obvious.

Will they retest once the software is updated? This is a non issue.

More importantly, will they test other phones with the same test method? This "iPhone signal drops" mania is ridiculous if they don't test other phones.
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post #207 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

The signal bar display is not a bug. They intentionally chose to have the bars not present a display that was analogous to signal strength.

Yes, I believe Apple has known all along about the signal bars. Remember this episode from 2008, when Apple increased the number of bars displayed in iOS 2.1?

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19512_7-10115756-233.html
post #208 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by iadroidx View Post

This Consumer Report video of the iPhone4 is absolute pure win!

Outstanding Pure Win!

Do you hear that Mr. Jobs? Consumer Reports cannot recommend the iPhone4.

But I guess this is a "Non Issue"

However there is still light at the end of the Tunnel former Apple boys n girls.

Its called.....





*btw..... where are those sexy White iPhone4's?
Or did they walk off the job and transform into White HTC's. Rumor has it that HTC in White has surfaced the retail floor today!

If you can cope with Android bad seeds Why wouldn't iPhone users cope?
Unintelligent rant.
post #209 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Yes, I believe Apple has known all along about the signal bars. Remember this episode from 2008, when Apple increased the number of bars displayed in iOS 2.1?

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19512_7-10115756-233.html

: Helloooo Glenn Beck, how are you?
post #210 of 405
Serious questions here guys: I live in a high signal area. If the new patch from Apple reports the bars correctly, will I then see a reduction in bars when touching the lower left corner? Also, shouldn't I at least be experiencing dropped calls? I'm thinking if this is in fact a design error, shouldn't all iPhones be affected, or is it because I'm in a high signal area that I haven't noticed the problem yet?
post #211 of 405
Dear Apple: I will be happy if you demonstrate fairness to customers by giving credit for bumpers purchased and if you demonstrate honesty by bringing back Field Test Mode in the next iOS update.
post #212 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Serious questions here guys: I live in a high signal area. If the new patch from Apple reports the bars correctly, will I then see a reduction in bars when touching the lower left corner. Also, shouldn't I at least be experiencing dropped calls? I'm thinking if this is in fact a design error, shouldn't all iPhones be affected, or is it because I'm in a high signal area that I haven't noticed the problem yet?

Chances are... your being in a 'strong signal area' is working to your benefit in this situation.
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post #213 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoodlesNoodlemann View Post

Here's my take. There is obviously a problem affecting some (who knows how many) phones. It seems that it is a small percentage of the total sold. But for those who have the bad ones, it's a big issue. They are not nuts just because someone else's phone works fine. My sense is that a bad batch or two were shipped. I have never been impressed with the Chinese regarding QC. So now Apple has to confirm what the issue is with the bad ones and correct it which is what they are probably doing right now. If I had a bad one I would just return it. And wait for the issue to be fixed. The returned ones will be fixed and sold as refurbs. It just doesn't seem as though, judging by how many people are raving (positively) about the phone, that is a universal issue or one just limited to low signal areas, etc.

Am in Los Angeles. Me and a roomate bought our iphone 4's on day one. Each of us HAVE NO RECEPTION ISSUES at all. In fact this new iphone performs FASTER, downloads FASTER from our WIFI, the face time is awesome.. The only "issue" i can report is that the prox sensor is a little too sensitive sometimes. But overall this phone is a major upgrade from past models and just flies with speed and moving through websites and applications is now super fast and flawless. Clearly to me the "issues" people are experiencing must be related to a combination of factors that don't exist in my case and the case of countless others. Dropped calls are a fricking fact of life, not apple. And yea that goes for EVERY network out there including Verizon.

Hey I am def not a fan of ATT. But am not concerned about Apple "ponying" up or not. I'm a 25++ year customer and can say that right now I have 6 Apple products in my house including iphones and their customer service has stood behind my purchases within REASON.

And...I might add...Even today, calling Apple is so much easier than calling almost ANY consumer electronics company on earth!

I mean, what's the problem? If my phone, no matter who I bought it from...did not make calls or consistantely exhibited problems making it unable to function, i'd just return it either for my money back or exchange it. It boggles my mind why paid shrills from Apple's competitors stir up these forums and convince people that have no issues to honestly develop one while they sit on these forums ranting about an issue when a solution exists, it's called exchange or return.

My phones reception is GREATLY improved over previous models. Its internet speed also performs as promised.
post #214 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

If you get dropped calls that doesn't mean you have any more of a problem than with any other cell phone.

My iPhone 4 will drop calls on que every time, no problem. It has been demonstrated with an Apple Genius and with AppleCare. I have tested several other phones at the same locations and at the same times and they do not suffer the same results as the iPhone 4. In the tests were iPhone 4, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 3G, Motorolla RAZR. We also tested a Nokia, an LG, and a Samsung, but I didn't record the model numbers of those three.

Bottom line is that my iPhone 4 performed well sitting on a table, but when picked up with two fingers anywhere on the sides, the call would drop in approximately 20 seconds. With all of the other phones we tested, not one call was dropped no matter how they were held. Also, data downloads can be halted with my iPhone 4. Could not get data to stop with the others.
post #215 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Yes, I believe Apple has known all along about the signal bars. Remember this episode from 2008, when Apple increased the number of bars displayed in iOS 2.1?

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19512_7-10115756-233.html

While the informal test results in that article don't seem to agree with more recent, formal testing, I think it's pretty clear, based on the more recent tests, that they set the signal display to show expected call quality rather than signal strength. So 5 bars meant you would get good call quality, with a decrease in bars indicating how much you should expect the call quality to decline.

But, because 5 bars represented such a wide range of signal strength, the difference between holding and not holding the iP4 sometimes appears dramatic, even though it isn't. The bar display will "fix" that by eliminating the apparent dramatic drop in signal strength.

But, the announced fix doesn't seem to address at all the issue that some phones will lose connection when the seam is bridged but others won't. And they have publicly addressed the proximity sensor issue either.

It's likely the latter of these is easily fixable with a software update, which has not yet been announced. It's possible the seam bridging issue on the phones that experience it may also be fixable in software, but they have not yet announced anything related to that either.
post #216 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Doesn't seem like a flip flop. Their initial testing couldn't reproduce the problem. They gathered additional information, corrected their methodology and now can reproduce it.

The problem was that their initial "testing" wasn't really testing by their normally thorough standards. I was actually shocked that they even published that initial finding knowing that they didn't really test it. And I suspected that they'd have to change their stance once real testing was done.

My confidence in CR wasn't diminished by their flip-flop, it was diminished by them apparently getting caught up in the iPhone frenzy and feeling they needed to weigh in with an opinion without conducting proper tests first.
post #217 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoodlesNoodlemann View Post

Here's my take. There is obviously a problem affecting some (who knows how many) phones. It seems that it is a small percentage of the total sold. But for those who have the bad ones, it's a big issue. They are not nuts just because someone else's phone works fine. My sense is that a bad batch or two were shipped. I have never been impressed with the Chinese regarding QC. So now Apple has to confirm what the issue is with the bad ones and correct it which is what they are probably doing right now. If I had a bad one I would just return it. And wait for the issue to be fixed. The returned ones will be fixed and sold as refurbs. It just doesn't seem as though, judging by how many people are raving (positively) about the phone, that is a universal issue or one just limited to low signal areas, etc.

Beacrefull...someone is going to accuse you of making sense!

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post #218 of 405
Off topic a bit, but just an observation. If anyone is in my boat and their iPhone 3G contract just expired, and you're thinking of buying an iPhone 4, take heed!

If you order a iPhone 4 with the iPhone App, it bangs you the 18.00 upgrade fee, but if you do it on a real Mac, the fee is waved. Go figure.
post #219 of 405
Consumer reports can remove the phone from their ass and they will get better reception. If those of you can't figure out how to hold a phone properly without covering a 2 mm strip, then don't buy one. If you are too cheap to buy one of the many different cases available, then don't buy one. If you don't like the phone, return it. Most of the people here making comments don't even own the iPhone 4. I get better reception with the iPhone 4 than I ever did with the original iPhone. If I smother the antenna on the original iPhone, the bars go down on that one too. It doesn't matter if the display shows 2 bars or 4 bars, you can still make a phone call.
post #220 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazingApple View Post

My iPhone 4 will drop calls on que every time, no problem. It has been demonstrated with an Apple Genius and with AppleCare. I have tested several other phones at the same locations and at the same times and they do not suffer the same results as the iPhone 4. In the tests were iPhone 4, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 3G, Motorolla RAZR. We also tested a Nokia, an LG, and a Samsung, but I didn't record the model numbers of those three.

Bottom line is that my iPhone 4 performed well sitting on a table, but when picked up with two fingers anywhere on the sides, the call would drop in approximately 20 seconds. With all of the other phones we tested, not one call was dropped no matter how they were held. Also, data downloads can be halted with my iPhone 4. Could not get data to stop with the others.

So...You did all this testing, Apple Genius, Apple Care etc and it's still happening????

This is BOGUS.

So you "kept" a device that ISN'T working and you are on here to say what?

Let me guess. ALL IPHONES SUCK?

I mean, get real, ANY product we ALL buy can be defective by a process of millions. I mean what product launch of THIS MAGNITUDE could or should be flawless?

Secondly why should Apple or ANY company officially comment on an issue when they themselves can't yet accurately access it's magnitude?

I guess NONE OF YOU have ever dealt with CEC's like DELL-HELL or HP for that matter.
post #221 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoeinla View Post

i'd just return it either for my money back or exchange it.

I have taken mine in several times and on my third iPhone 4. I'm still experiencing the same issues outlined in previous posts. Anyone else having better reception after exchanging?
post #222 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

If those of you can't figure out how to hold a phone properly

That's just sort of sad.

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post #223 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Doesn't seem like a flip flop. Their initial testing couldn't reproduce the problem. They gathered additional information, corrected their methodology and now can reproduce it.

Well if you recall they (Consumer Reports) did not initially test it themselves. They relied upon reports from another source, Gizmodo I think. Whoever it was that they were relying upon did not properly test the phone under lab conditions.
post #224 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Consumer reports can remove the phone from their ass and they will get better reception. If those of you can't figure out how to hold a phone properly without covering a 2 mm strip, then don't buy one. If you are too cheap to buy one of the many different cases available, then don't buy one. If you don't like the phone, return it. Most of the people here making comments don't even own the iPhone 4. I get better reception with the iPhone 4 than I ever did with the original iPhone. If I smother the antenna on the original iPhone, the bars go down on that one too. It doesn't matter if the display shows 2 bars or 4 bars, you can still make a phone call.

And this is if Consumer Reports is really like it was 20 years - A REAL NOT FOR PROFIT business.

I recently signed up to see their "product reviews" of items we all need and care about and they were LAME.

I learn way more from forums like this FOR FREE than their SUBSCRIPTION FEES for a small limited information source.

What's funny is that they FLIP FLOPPED on this issue. I call that UNRELIABLE and UNTRUSTWORTHTY by all accounts.
post #225 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Does anyone have a screenshot or data for the smartphone comparisons?




It seems to me Apple will not have to do a recall. The info is clear in the report. In their testing, putting your finger over the gap affects reception. Nothing in that states that Apple will need to recall each and every iPhone 4 ever sold. Thats silly.

Also, they verified the issue in their phone, something AnandTech did weeks ago, but they didnt determine why it doesnt happen to all phones or what the cause is. Apple can apply a coating or get regulatory approval to up the power, work on the production and component tolerances, alter the way the TriQuint chips measure the antenna to account for variances and/or resubmit to regulatory boards to up the power output, to name a few.

Either way, its not good for Apple is Consumer Reports is not backing one of their products. Usually they top their lists across the board and are almost always recommended so they better have fix that isnt giving away Bumpers.

Personally I think the free bumper thing is their best corrective route. It probably costs Apple about 50 cents for one and they charge $30.00. Get real Apple, thats just too much money for a silly band to wrap around the phone.
post #226 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazingApple View Post

I have taken mine in several times and on my third iPhone 4. I'm still experiencing the same issues outlined in previous posts. Anyone else having better reception after exchanging?

Wow - I guess it mean's that all iphones are defective and deserve to be recalled and they better own up to their lies!

I mean can you hear me when "I" tell you "I" have NO ISSUES like yours. And other buddies of mine here in LOS ANGELES don't as well???

What does that mean to you when you "hear" that?
post #227 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

But, because 5 bars represented such a wide range of signal strength, the difference between holding and not holding the iP4 sometimes appears dramatic, even though it isn't.

Oh, please. The Anandtech report shows the iPhone 4 exhibiting dramatic signal attenuation when it's held that's real and much greater than with the 3Gs or Nexus One.
post #228 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by kent909 View Post

There are many issues with technology in general. The current iPhone 4 problem is just one of them. The thing that amazes me is that if I were to buy an iPhone 4 and use it to replace my Vonage phone my monthly bill would go from $30 to $104 minumum. Why is no one complaining about how much money to costs to use one of these phones. They may be smart phones, but the people using them are not real smart.

I'm not complaining because it's worth it to me. I killed my land line last year. I'd rather be a dumb owner of an all purpose iPhone 4 @ $79 a month - new minimum is $55 a month - not $104 - than a smart owner of a landlocked Vonage account @ $30 a month.

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post #229 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ochyming View Post

: Helloooo Glenn Beck, how are you?

heh, since you were apparently still in diapers at the time, just google for signal bars on the iphone in 2008, and you'll find tons of discussion about it.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=586974

Oct 23, 2008, 12:25 PM
"IMHO, all Apple did was tweak the indicator. Many of us verified this by doing the field test before and after the 2.1 update."

Demand Apple bring back Field Test Mode in the next iOS4 update.
post #230 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by iancass79 View Post

For all of the people that bashed the ones of us that said there is a problem and pointed out that Consumer Reports said it was "OK", SUCK IT.

Man of class, you are. Rude and clumsy. I'm left handed, and there's not much easier in this world than simply changing your grip to avoid that one trouble-spot. I can reproduce the loss of bars, but in practice it's never been a problem, because I'm not a clumsy idiot like some people I'm replying to.
post #231 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoeinla View Post

So...You did all this testing, Apple Genius, Apple Care etc and it's still happening????

This is BOGUS.

So you "kept" a device that ISN'T working and you are on here to say what?

Let me guess. ALL IPHONES SUCK?

I mean, get real, ANY product we ALL buy can be defective by a process of millions. I mean what product launch of THIS MAGNITUDE could or should be flawless?

Secondly why should Apple or ANY company officially comment on an issue when they themselves can't yet accurately access it's magnitude?

I guess NONE OF YOU have ever dealt with CEC's like DELL-HELL or HP for that matter.

I can understand why you are having such a hard time believing this MIGHT just be true. Your iphone 4 is probably working fine for you? That is great for you. If people are to believe you that yours is working fine when you say it is, why is it such a stretch for you to believe others when they tell you theirs is not working properly? How many iPhone 4's will it take, before I can get one that does work, is my question. Mine has been returned twice and I'm on iPhone 4 number three. All three will drop a call when picked up with two fingers anywhere on the sides. I love Apple products and have 10 currently, which is why I will not give up. I believe will improve upon this problem and refuse to believe that this is all we can expect. They have always done pretty well in the past about making things right, so let's hope they stand behind these too. They announced today that they will exchange 2008 Time Capsules within the given range of affected serial numbers, and how much more important is the iPhone line to the company than the Time Capsule line.
post #232 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandiTT View Post

I picked up my iPhone 4 on the first day it was sold here. And I seem to be one of the few people that experience better reception than on my pervious 3G model. I constantly lost my call when I drove into the underground garage with my car at home and at work. (My iPhone is sitting in a cradel without external antenna in the car). But with the iPhone 4 the connection stays alive and I can finish my calls in the garage.

Also the WiFi reach is much better. I have more coverage in my house and in my office and now even get to connect to my office WiFi when sitting in the Starbucks across the street. So I think the overall reception and range of the iPhone 4 is better than on my previous model. And I don't really give much about the amount of bars on the screen . What counts for me is that I have fewer dropped calls

yea good one, i plan to buy 2, this to me is a non issue, i always use a case and i can't wait to get mine
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post #233 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Um, I've still yet to meet anyone demonstrating that this is a 'problem'.

Again...
"Doc... it hurts when I do this."
"Then don't do that".

Move your GD finger a millimeter.

The antenna design is still a vast improvement for those not trying to get in on a phony class action.

Not everyone wants to hold the freaking phone to their right ear. Holding it in my left hand to my left ear causes the palm of my hand to short out the antenna. I can't easily change how I hold the phone and still be comfortable with it. It is a very real and disturbing issue. Get over yourself.
post #234 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Unfortunately, they contradict themselves in their own article. In some places they uncategorically state that the problem affects all iPhones, then, they say their review unit wasn't affected. Then there's the ridiculous claim that CR showed that it affects all iPhones... by testing 3 phones.

Mine does not have any signal issues...perhaps, I am a lucky one for a change.

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post #235 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoeinla View Post

Wow - I guess it mean's that all iphones are defective and deserve to be recalled and they better own up to their lies!

I mean can you hear me when "I" tell you "I" have NO ISSUES like yours. And other buddies of mine here in LOS ANGELES don't as well???

What does that mean to you when you "hear" that?

It suggests you and your buddies are using cases, you've been consistently in a strong signal area when you've held the bare phone the "wrong way", and you've been unaware of the times when you've held the bare phone the wrong way while in a weak signal area. It is often harder to prove a negative, but there are plenty of people who've seen the problem.
post #236 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoeinla View Post

So...

Let me guess. ALL IPHONES SUCK?

How do you make such a leap in your logic?
post #237 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

Tape and bumpers are not the answer people. Seriously.

They need to apply a coating to the antennas. It would be clear but enough to stop the issue from happening. Unfortunately, that would involve a recall, or at the very least a trip to the Apple store and a Genius to swap out the antennas with coated ones.

I agree, have you seen those rubber bumpers,.. they make you iPhone 4 look like a kids toy,...
post #238 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Oh, please. The Anandtech report shows the iPhone 4 exhibiting dramatic signal attenuation when it's held that's real and much greater than with the 3Gs or Nexus One.

Not as dramatic as the loss of bars appears to show.
post #239 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

It suggests you and your buddies are using cases, you've been consistently in a strong signal area when you've held the bare phone the "wrong way", and you've been unaware of the times when you've held the bare phone the wrong way while in a weak signal area. It is often harder to prove a negative, but there are plenty of people who've seen the problem.

Exactly right. Well said.
post #240 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Not as dramatic as the loss of bars appears to show.

I agree the software update will probably alleviate that gross perception but it will do nothing to fix the actual attenuation, which is much worse than for other phones including previous iPhones (3Gs at least).
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