Consumer Reports changes stance, cannot recommend Apple's iPhone 4 - Page 7

And the point of your reply?

You said...


I would hardly say that that software fix is going to fix the "problem". A bumper or coating would be required. Software alone is not enough.

Its software... not voodoo.

I'm afraid you are wrong,
My wife has the 16GB iPhone 4 and I have the 32GB iPhone 4, and we both have the problem,..
the signal bars are up and down like a yoyo, 3G speeds also vary,.. we both now have cases on the phones and still the signal dances up and down,.. and you say there is not a problem,..
Our previous 3GS models did not have these issues period,..

I think its time for everyone to get real!!
wake up and smell the coffee,...

Yet, it's reported by many that the reception is much better. It seems that the improved reception from the external antenna and the drop from holding it are pretty much a wash.

The signal loss from bridging the seam is a completely separate issue that, based on data from all reports, only occurs on some phones.

Bravo sir. Well said!!

OH NO, is apple going to go belly up now?

Not a wash in my experience.


I don't know where you get that. Who has replaced their iPhone 4 and no longer seen the issue in the same (low-moderate signal) location where it occurred with the previous iPhone 4?

There have been reports in these forums that with 2 iP4s at the same location it occurs with one and not the other. There have also been similar reports elsewhere.

Dude or Dudette -- Do you "get" that Apple's business has gone up 30 fold is a SHORT AMOUNT of TIME in a DOWN ECONOMY?

What company out there has had the SALES GROWTH that can MATCH or BEAT Apple?

What do you want? Perfection with Growth? Growth comes AT A COST TO ALL, including YOU AND ME. But we are talking millions upon millions of new customers every 90 days, do you get that? This kind of explosive growth is unprecedented.

BTW - My "old" 3GS just sold on ebay for $340... How many "devices" have you bought over the years can boast a 100% resale value over 12 months, USED????

You are looking for excuses. You are right. I am happy customer that is "reacting" to people like you that want Apple to somehow "come clean" that all iphone 4's are defective. They shouldn't because in my case, the iphone 4 performs as advertised, get it?

I mean you would have a leg to stand on, just one, if you "couldn't return your phone" for a refund or exchange, you can.

My 3GS was SWAPPED out two months ago because the volume buttons stopped working, should I have made HELL on forums like this and demand a recall? I simply went to an Apple store and they swapped it out NO QUESTIONS ASKED. Try doing this with your DRIOD or any other phone and see how "the competition" stands by it's products.

You have no case on Apple betraying it's customers. It isn't perfect at handling EXPLOSIVE growth, guilty as charged. And guess what, you have NOTHING to compare their growth to, nothing. It's unprecedented.

I guess this proves there are enough idiots out there to keep eBay in business. Why would anyone but an idiot spend $800 when they can get one for $200. Plus, I'm curious how you did this without paying AT&T for voiding your contract?

Can you send me the buyer's email? I have some really good deals I would like to offer him/her.

They could be teiing the truth.
I saw the iPhone 4G on CL for as much as $1200 the first couple of days after it was released.

'The Boy Who Cried Wolf' describes you.

Well if you want details about 'how' something works, or for specific issues, yes internet is best. But in terms of 'is something a pervasive problem'; or comparing something like 'braking performance' to other vehicles etc etc etc, do you really think a couple dozen or so users blah-blah-ing on a website is more scientific? Look how long this thread is because there is not that many 'well known' scientific tests of this issue.

That said, even if this is not a 'pervasive' issue, then at a minimum Apple may have a perception issue (with a couple million sold, its hard to argue this point). Old saying- perception is reality. Perhaps Apple can wait this out, we shall see.

That is why the CR report is bogus. If he just wanted to be a comedian, holding up a roll of duct tape, I don't trust him as a scientist. I have tested the phone myself, and yes the bars went down, however the calls do not drop here in my test lab. I do agree, the design is foolish. How it ever made it through quality control is beyond logic.

Even if Apple is able to fix it 99.9% with whatever method they decide to implement, that will not stop the lawyers. Right now a small number of customers are having occasional problems with reception, but a large number of competitors and media companies are enjoying the the hell out of this.

I think Apple will learn a valuable lesson here about why it is always better to be honest and not such a good idea to be a snob.

Me too. In a few weeks, we will be able to buy unlocked iPhone 4's from Apple in Canada. If that fantasy buyer paid $800 for a locked phone, imagine how much more they'd pay for an Apple unlocked phone. Hell, even if they only pay me $800 US, I imagine I will still be turning a nice profit.

I think I will go in an buy a dozen. When my wife asks, I will explain that there are are people in the US willing to pay hundreds of dollars over ticket price. It's true. I read it in the internet,

Um, they aren't idiots, those phones are OFF CONTRACT. I just sold my 3GS from last year on ebay for $340. What fools.

Gee maybe there are people that "trust" the iphone. How bout that.

That's the first I've heard of that happening and, at least from my perspective, it's indirect, but I'll keep an extra eye out for the direct reports.

No signal SJ is "no issue"? Not any more.

I did experience reception lost when holding it in my left hand. I wasn't even trying to duplicate results. I'm right handed, but I hold my iphone in my left hand when typing on the screen. Getting a $15 rubber case from BestBuy solved the problem. I refused to pay $30 for the bumpers Apple was selling.

Doubt It - but with each bite of this Apple, things are tasting increasingly less sweet to many consumers... as reported.

The funny thing is.. That clearly there is a HIGH RESALE INTERNATIONAL MARKET for these phones, new and old. On top of being able to return them if you just bought them, clearly like in my case, I upgraded my 3GS to i4 at no cost to me at all, especially since my 3GS sold on ebay for $340 two days ago.

It's reasoning like this that more is being made about "the phone failure fears" that really exists. In other words, what's the REAL problem?

Right now nobody's loosing ANYTHING and many are wasting valuable "life time" trying with all their might to bring this company down with exaggerations.

I suspect it's (annoyingmouse) referring to solipsism who tested someone else's 4 next to his. I also suspect that solipsism deliberately neglected to tell us that one of the 4's had a case on and one didn't.

I've now had a replacement and it has dropped signal just like the old one did and just as severely.

I think it was very nice of Apple to make a Lemon! Now the others can catch up a bit, before Apple fixes the problem, and leaves them all in the dust if we are lucky.

Apples NEEDS to fix this before it bites them in the arss - real hard.

Without fixing it ASAP, how will they expect folks to jump at whatever they announce (new iPad and such), without waiting to see what bugs it WILL have.

Time to pony up to the bar, and take this on the chin.

Skip

Really? Where can I buy a new iPhone for $200?

Oh, you mean $200 plus $70 per month for 2 years. That's quite a different thing. I guess you can also buy a new Lexus for $2,000 - since that's the downpayment they used in their ads.

Wow, paranoid much? No one is trying "to bring this company down with exaggeration". I get it, you are a new Apple fan and very enthusiastic. That is great. But, ignoring real problems is just stupid. There is a problem with the iPhone 4. Apple should admit and address this. On a different level, there is a problem with the decision making, somewhere at Apple, that first allowed the phone to ship with this defect and now to refuse to acknowledge the issue.

Does this make them a failure as a company? No. They are obviously a wild success and deservedly so. Does that mean they are perfect? No. Does it mean that anyone that is affected by the problem or is concerned about it (especially those that are not yet able to buy it) should assume there is no problem? No, again that would be stupid.

You are new to the boards. Welcome. People discuss the good and the bad about Apple here. If you don't like that, perhaps you ought to stop 'wasting valuable "life time"' screaming at anyone that has a different take on the matter than you and just move on.

CR Report: http://bit.ly/auU0c6


"Lefties?" CR is guilty of either omission or worse! I am a Righty, but I hold my phones with Left Hand, so that I can use my Right Hand to Operate the phone! My guess is that the same works in reverse: Lefties hold the phone with Right Hand, and Operate it with Left Hand... So, if Consumers Report is to be taken verbatim, like Gospel, such SLOPPY wording is INEXCUSABLE, FUD designed to attract attention, clicks, eyeballs, ratings, to CR instead of the "Truth" that they supposedly Report!



The presumption they offer is that their "emulator, a device that simulates carrier cell" is a Word of God?! Has anyone ever challenged that device? How credible is that? That alone raises the Q for me! And just because other devices worked OK with it doesn't make that device a Word of God!



1. Why didn't CR use that "Word of God!" "emulator - simulator" during their 1st Report to give us One Definitive Answer?

2. Why is CR coming out with this 2nd Report BEFORE they test it with Cases? - "We'll test a few cases this week and report back."

It looks like CR just wanted to exploit this FUD to inject themselves into The News, cause anything iPhone Related is Big News! They are doing it in 3 Steps, perhaps deliberately, in order to Stay In The News, to get Attention! CR is fighting for their survival like all Print Media! CR itself should be put under Microscope! This is simply Sloppy, Questionable Reporting by a Desperate Publication!!!

As to Apple -- there could be several explanations there, and I will wait till their next official statement! Of course Apple is under the biggest Microscope, cause they are the biggest threat to some of their Competitors, who are too busy looking for low blows, while imitating Apple (BackBerry OS6 teaser was introduced today)!

Maybe Apple's Thinking was:

We'll max it out while reducing the size of the iPhone4, putting the antenn on the edge to get the best reception, cause most everyone will use some kind of a case! We might as well offer them something close to the Naked Look - Apple's Bumper! Hey, that's an additional sale... Also, a lot of people use Hands-Free and or BlueTooth! Thus, it's part of iPhone 4 Design!

Most people have voted with their $$$, and Apple can't make iPhone 4 fast enough to meet the demand! A small minority of users have noticed that aspect of the design and are now obsessed with it, to the point that they don't talk about the improvements in iPhone 4, but keep beating this Dead Horse!!!

Apple has EASILY called that Minority Report's bluff by offering a Complete 100% Refund! No need to sue for that which is already available!

Let's see what Apple's next move is.... During the Earnings Call they'll be asked about this, and it would be interesting to see if it's 1-5% of buyers who have returned their iPhone 4. Also, I'd like to compare that percentage to all other phones, or at least Smart Phones!!! If it's close, or lower, that would diminish this hysteria by a few!

Apple Insider, like all media, needs eyeballs and clicks! So, I can't expect them not to jump on this story! But again:

The Real Story is how many users are NOT RETURNING their iPhone 4, and the demand for it!!!

Of course, the only difference between the $200 phone and the $800 phone, at least in the US, is that the $200 owner is contractually bound for 2 years, while the $800 is not. Assuming the $800 owner didn't buy it as an $800 paperweight, he is going to be paying the same rates for as long as he wants to use it....but he can stop paying and keep it as a very expensive iPod with a contract.

I'm smelling the coffee just fine. I love my iPhone4. I too can get the bars to dance up and down here in San Francisco.

Has it caused a loss of reception? No.
Has it caused any dropped calls? No.
Has it caused a drop in 3G data? No.

What has the antenna design caused?
It caused a huge improvement (for me) in call quality.
3G performance is a huge improvement over my previous iPhone.
It even allowed me to place a phone call 40' underground in a concrete parking structure where no other cell phone I ever had has ever been able to work. It even said "No Service" when I received the phone call. That was a shocker.

I'm sure complaints are plenty and justified. However I also believe that the majority of users have no problems with it. There is something else going on. I for one will patiently wait and see what Apple comes up with. Until then, I will continue to happily use my iPhone4. It's the best-performing phone I've had yet.

Why do you buy an iPhone without a contract? I take it people are getting around the requirement by cheating? Or is it different outside the US?

Obviously, I don't have an iPhone yet. I'm one of those Verizon holdouts.

Oh yeah...your Lexus comment was a bit snotty. But then I wasn't too nice to those eBay patrons. So maybe I deserved your ridicule.

I think a lot of ip4 buyers fall into the following categories:

• People who don't keep up with news of all things apple and don't know this is happening (but may be experiencing the issue.)
• People who know about the issue and are holding out for Apple to fix it.
• People who know about the issue, but have accepted the fault as a quirk of the phone and since the offline functions are so nice, they put up with it.
• And finally, people who are in complete denial and will defend Apple through this no matter what.

The last item is what gets me. Does everyone know it's ok to be mad at Apple about this?

In Canada, and elsewhere, the iPhone 4 is/will be available directly from Apple without a contract. The major benefit, is that they will be factory unlocked. We have 5 carriers that support the iPhone here, so the first benefit is that we can then choose any carrier we want (that allowed 'third party' devices on their network) and so pick and choose amongst plans and add-ons. Additionally, we can bring it to any compatible carrier internationally and, assuming the support the iPhone 4 microsim, buy a card and plan and use it freely. The third benefit is being able to sell it to Americans that want to use TMobile.

Really, I don't see any reason someone would buy an AT&T iPhone without a contract. Contracts are shit, but since you have to pay AT&T to use your iPhone, what practical difference does it really make (other than being able to walk away at any time, I guess).

Yeah, I saw the same Podcast and this has been my feeling all along. It seems the antenna is behaving properly. All antenna's experience attenuation. Pretty much ANY antenna nowadays is located inside the phone, at the bottom.

When you put the antenna outside the phone, that phone is going to experience MORE attenuation when your hand covers it. But that doesn't mean it won't work, it simply means it will be attenuated. There are phones out there, that tell you not to touch certain parts of the antenna. This isn't new.

The upside, combined with a few other enhancements, is that the outer antenna enjoys FAR greater reception. The other side of this story (the one not getting as much airtime), is that many people are suddenly able to use the iPhone in places they previously could not. They're able to continue using phones in areas where calls are normally dropped.

I think there is a software bug, that will tell you there is no service when you can in fact make a call. This was mentioned in Walt Mossberg's review of the phone.

I think it's the combination of this very new design, the software bug, and perhaps a small amount of units (tens of thousands out of 2 million is an acceptable/normal failure rate) that are faulty.

Oh They Know...

They just appear to be trapped in some alternate dimension where their phone somehow defines who they actually are, and any flaw in said device reflects directly upon them.

After reading through the thread, I see two analogies that sum up the two sides of the argument:

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this." "Then don't do that"

and

"I don't have cancer, so cancer must not exist."


Really people, which one sounds stupider? If you honestly think this isn't an issue because it's not so hard to just move your hand and hold the phone in a different way, just wait until you have your hands full or something and the call is dropped because you're touching the bottom corner.

What REALLY irks me is how CR confirmed that putting duct-tape over the corner helped the issue immensely, so that confirms that Apple's putting a thin film over the antenna would help alleviate this issue.

The solution is simple: Apple should add the finish to the antenna in the production process. Once they start getting to the shelves, Apple & AT&T should allow users to replace theirs with these new fixed ones. The old ones get sent to a factory where they are sent through a disassembly process (which wouldn't even need to be that complicated) and the phone's antenna gets the new coat. The phones are then sold 25% off as refurbs online (random #, I dont know what they should cost).

I'm thinking of returning the iphone 4 while I'm in my 30 day return period, and wondered if anyone else has done so. What happens with the AT&T contract and how easy is it to get back on the same plan with my old iphone? I may wait for the software update, but it doesn't sound like that will change anything.

of all the survival disadvantages lefties already suffer, we're worried about whether they can sweaty-grip a phone, too? go eat peanuts.
</troll>

Thanks for the reply. Having a choice of carriers is nice but It sounds like the cost in Canada is much higher since the iPhone isn't subsidized. Maybe it's worth the higher cost if the coverage is better? Since I'm with Verizon I've never had reception problems. That's why I'll be patient until they get the iPhone.

The cost is higher, when you buy the unlocked direct from Apple. But, IIRC, in the US you can buy contract free from Apple (and AT&T?). Apple Canada hasn't announced the pricing, but I expect it to be within $50 of the contract free pricing in the US.

I expect a lot of US users will be driving up here and buying it from Apple so they can use it on TMobile or be truly contract free (and use it internationally). Won't help you at all, since you want to stay with V.

You do understand that subsidized/unsubsidized - you still pay the same in the end, don't you? You're essentially making monthly payments on the phone when it's subsidized.

I'm with you. I have Verizon and I'm happy with the service. I tried a Motorola Droid in the store and just was appalled by the crappy quality of the phone. The touchscreen was junk, the phone felt cheap, and Android wasn't near as responsive as my iPod Touch. I'll wait and see what happens. My current contract ends in April next year, so, I have time to wait and see what happens. I hate the thought of moving to AT&T or suffering through using a Droid. I really want to Droid to succeed, but so far, it's just like the PC market: crappy hardware in a race for the bottom. No thanks!

That was my entire point. The person I was responding to said it was crazy to pay $800 for a new iphone because you can buy one for $200. I was pointing out the error in his logic.

Well they're witches. If we don't appease them, satan knows what they'll do to us.