Consumer Reports changes stance, cannot recommend Apple's iPhone 4 - Page 8

If Apple didn't realize what the problem is and genuinely believed they figured it out with that nonsense about the bars, then it looks like they really don't know what they're doing from an engineering perspective. On the other hand, if Apple knew the truth and put out that nonsense to buy time, they really don't know what they are doing from a PR perspective.

The correct move would have been to announce the company is working on a solution. A detailed explanation of the phone's flaw would have been appropriate, leaving it up to customers to decide if that flaw was a deal-breaker in the short run, hence giving consumers the option of buying a phone now, knowing what they were getting into, or purchasing one later after the issue had been resolved.

Nobody's perfect and we can excuse the occasional hiccup considering how complicated today's products have become but there is an expectation of some level of honesty. Frankly, considering how badly Apple has dealt with this mess, early adopters of the new phone deserve compensation of some sort. Apple needs to go into damage-control mode in a big way, come clean and root out those responsible for this mess, be it an engineering or PR issue, if not both.

Exactly. This is not a joking matter, and to make a joke out of it is to suggest the tests were never really serious.

Frankly, if CR doesn't come out with a LOT more detail about this report, I for one would be willing to join a class action lawsuit against them to acquire and publish that info.

And if it's bogus, then heaven help CR!

4G PROBLEMS???

My 3G rececption is crappy. My whole family has ATT service with other phones and can make calls inside my house. I can' place calls or receive calls w/o immediate drops.

I love the Iphone, but I need to think before wanting to upgrade to 4G

My reception has been better than all of my previous iPhones. For some reason the only bad
reception that I have is at work. With my iPhone 4 I can actually use 3G & can make a phone call
in the cafeteria. Something that I've never been able to do before. It does annoy me that my
co-worker can use her phone in the elevator & parking structure with no problems connecting.
Hopefully AT&T will finish their 850mhz upgrade for Milwaukee sometime this year.

I think the whole point of showing the duct tape was to demonstrate how stupidly simple the problem could have been fixed if Apple just added some sort of thin protection around the bands of the phone, preventing skin contact and reduce the reception loss while holding it in that position.

You can't join a class action lawsuit to force someone to reveal something to you, by the way ~_~;.

On exactly what grounds would you sue them? How would they have injured you personally?

I can join a class action lawsuit that their report has caused material damage to the price of the stock I own. In order to "defend" themselves they would need to make all the information available from their "tests".

And frankly, I don't care what the "point" of the duct tape bit was. It demonstrates a serious lack of professionalism when it comes to releasing a report that can impact the sales of millions of phones.

Usually I'm the first one to knock others about being nitpicky but people (not just yourself) have gotten this wrong so many times that it is even starting to get on my nerves. The piece of tape simply insulates the antennas from each other. If they are joined then they don't stop working, they merely become most receptive to a different wavelength that AT&T nor any other cell carrier happens to be broadcasting on.

I built several antennas for the digital television conversion and the concepts are all pretty much the same. Any antenna is a series of trade-offs. So is the one on the iPhone 4.


You should have just bought a case. Your time is likely worth more than the return and hassle will have cost you.


Apple has made mistakes similar to this one before and will continue to do so in the future. It's sort of weird seeing how big the pool of Apple users has gotten and how much whining there is now. I've got my complaints about Apple but the level of sour grapes here is just odd. No product is perfect. All of them involve trade offs and becoming aware of them and purchasing a couple things to deal with them is pretty standard practice. Apple made the infamous hockey puck mouse which 90% of everyone immediately tossed away and replaced with a decent mouse. Apple continued to ship one button mice when two was the norm almost everywhere and again people just dealt with it. Apple killed the modem and the floppy and some people still needed them and thus dealt with it.

I'm a leftie myself. If I want an iPhone, I'll need to buy a case. If you don't want to buy a case, hold it different or try Android. I've always tried alternatives and their sets of trade-offs are almost always worse than the Apple set of trade-offs.


You've hit a big and very important point. The iPhone shouldn't be alone in this endeavor. Every other smartphone should have to under go the same testing with attempts made to bridge antennas or alter reception characteristics.


Good points, especially field test mode! Apple could make many people feel better by simply having some inexpensive case solutions endorsed or in stock.


I have a lot of issues driving from the right seat. My car just doesn't handle very well or feel very comfortable when I drive this way. I'm stuck using the left seat for now. Buy a case. You don't have to buy an Apple case. You can buy something else. You can put on five cents worth of electrical tape.


Plenty of products have design trade-offs. I can't imagine a jury not understanding that.


You know I was just looking into this and after a few searches about liquids that are insulators or non-conductive, I keep running across superglue. They actually do sell a clear liquid electrical "tape" that you apply with a brush and it dries clear, but the much easier solution would appear to simply be some super glue. It applies very clear and very thin. It costs less than a buck and isn't water soluble so it shouldn't wear away to easily. It also doesn't adhere well to glass so some over application might be easier to clean up or remove if it goes past the antenna band. I also remember back to my PC modding days where you could use pencil lead to change Athlon chips. They tried to stop this but superglue was the fix for that.

I bet even if Apple decides to apply something, it wouldn't be much different from this.

I think you are making the mistake of thinking that there is any real confusion between Apple and the experts over what the issue is. Or, that there is any difference at all between what Apple thinks the issue is and Consumer Reports thinks the issue is.

In fact all these parties are actually in agreement and have all been saying the same thing. The phone will lose signal when you grip the antenna in a certain way. If you are in a low signal area, it might even drop the connection as a result.

This is what Apple said in their statement, this is the same thing that Consumer Reports said in their first statement, and the exact same thing they said in this, their second statement on the matter. The only difference between what Consumer Reports said the first time, and the second time is that the second time they said they "couldn't recommend it," the second time.

AFAICS there is no confusion over what the problem is, and there is no solution for the problem short of "not holding it that way" or using a case to cover the antenna. Apple's POV is that this is fine, others think this sucks, and *that* is the disagreement. There is no disagreement on facts, just on whether it sucks or not, or whether it's a big deal or not.

Personally I side with Apple, others may not.

With AT&T the iP4 costs $200 plus the contract costs. You pay (about) the same thing for a Droid. So aren't all smartphones subsidized? At least that's the way the mobile phone business works in the US.

Your opinion of the Droid is the same as mine. It just looks and feels cheap. I am happy with my iTouch and flip phone until Verizon and Apple join hands.

Activate the Omega-13 device!!

Fact is, the iPhone 4 has better reception than any other cell phone on the market.

I would not be surprised to discover that shareholders cannot initiate suits against 3rd parties for actions that may have caused their stock value to drop.

Probably just being picky here, but this is actually not true. You pay more to the phone company in the contract by far than the cost of the phone plus the service.

The very fact that Canada requires three year contracts and the US only two, and that the prices of the phone (adjusted for currency) are identical proves this. If the contract price equalled the full cost of the phone distributed over the time of the contract, then either the US iPhones are 30% too cheap or the Canadian iPhones are 30% too expensive. It can't logically be otherwise.

Also, I bought my last iPhone full price (in Canada), from the Apple store, if I subtracted the contract price and distributed the rest out, I would have paid for the phone before the end of a single year on the contract. When I started the contract, I had to sign for three years but I got the subsidised price.

If fido was actually being honest and fair with me, the contract would be up after one year, when the balance of the hardware was paid off, but instead they keep me paying for another two years after that. Anyone who thinks the subsidised phone model is anything but a money grab by the carriers or is in some way a "fair deal" is just not watching very closely.

Apple is creating Life out of technology. The iPhone 4, as the iPad, is engineered and designed as a projection of day-to-day Humanity. It breathes and pulsates in waves. It costs an arm and a leg because it is an arm and a leg. It has been built from the inside out as we have been, dna strand by dna strand until our senses start making sense of the whole.

Organic we evolved, organic the iPhone better be. For better or worse. My arms cannot bend backward, neither can my fingers; I cannot swivel my head 180 degrees; I have limited vision: but I can feel things just fine and that keeps me alive and thriving. The iPhone partakes in an imperfect but highly adaptable journey through evolution of meaningful ends.

Of course, with asymmetric alchemy comes fear of the unknown. It always did, as in the witch hunts of past centuries. And bitterness for the comfort zones left behind. Cold comfort indeed, for in Hell lies the belief that it should deservedly be host to your enemy. Let the threatening catharsis find its way through an echo chamber redemption!

The antenna is sensitive to contact with the human hand and so it should be. As my hand feels the warmth or coldness of a brother's handshake, I tune my response on the adaptable me. I'm not a borg, nor a hermit, and neither am I an android. As a flesh and blood human being I've grown to rely on human nature's frail and fallible sagacity.

There is nothing wrong with my antenna that I couldn't correct with the hand that beholds it. Kindred Antennas are known to keep in touch.

I just wasn't clear in my earlier comments. I realize that an unlocked iPhone costs more but I didn't know how iPhones were used outside the US. So it didn't make sense to pay $800 when you could get a subsidized iP4 for $200. If you buy an unlocked iP4 in Canada (or on eBay) and went with TMobile in the US, I assume the monthly usage costs are about the same. So you would pay more by not using AT&T. But before you jump on that logic remember that I said "assume."

Dude. I just flat out don't believe you.

What you are saying here seems strongly exaggerated. Your language is "loose" and just plain unbelievable, especially the part I bolded. Picking up an iphone with two fingers *anywhere* on the sides drops a call? I just don't believe you.

Also, if you are in a bad signal area, your test results would make sense (except the exaggeration on the iPhone 4 part), because all the other phones have internal antennas compared to the iPhone 4's external one. This means that if you bought a case for your iPhone 4, or didn't hold it so that the antenna was shorted, then it would actually perform better than all the phones you tested.

The question still stands. Why would you buy a contract free AT&T iPhone, if, in order for it to useable, you need to pay AT&T anyway, just not on a contract.

If you use the contract free iphone for 2 years, you have paid almost the same as the subsidized customer, in fees, but also paid $600 for the privilege of walking away from the service. Of course, the contracted customer could do the same but only pay $~300-400 to terminate their contract.

I agree, but am having the prox sensor issue as well, which is a deal breaker.

The funny thing is, after I upgraded to iOS4 on my 3G, I have since had it happen to me twice. Talking on the phone and out of nowhere I hear a line ringing and someone from my contacts or MRU answers. AFAIK, I am the only person in the world without an iPhone 4 that has this problem

Who cares. It works just fine.

The two funniest posts of the thread.

If an outfit like Consumer reports could not replicate the problem the first time, it suggests to me that the problem is, at most, minor.

That said, I have not even seen an iPhone 4, so I do not have an opinion about the extent of the problem in the real world.

Somehow, I doubt that you have much of a case, unless Jobs & Co. fail to pursue legal action.

And even then... truth is a defense to libel.



Disclaimer: ...IANAL

I dunno, I can repro a signal loss on my 3GS phone. You have to hold it differently, as you would other phones because the antenna shape and position is different.

Consumer Reports does some good work on cars and appliances, but I dunno about areas like this...

I've spoken to a good dozen people with the new phone. Not a one has problems with the signal.

Of course, that's far from a scientifically valid sample size, but still...

No! No! They were "stunned"! Norwegian Blues stun easily, Major!

Lovely phone, eh? Beautiful plooo-mage!?

What an utterly informationless thread.

YES. NO.
BARS. NO BARS.
YOU'RE WRONG. I AM RIGHT.
GREAT RECEPTION. LOUSY RECEPTION.
FANBOY. TROLL.
RETURN. SUCK IT UP.
FREE BUMPERS. NO BUMPERS.
APPLE RULES. APPLE SUCKS.

In the meantime, not one mind was changed.

Sigh......

Why would you bring it back instead of putting some clear tape over the gap & wait for an Apple fix? (yes it's got to be free)... Vs getting rid of the iPhone 4 features.

I've worked in an Apple store and I work at a cellphone store that carries the iPhone now. The amount of people that ever have the phone in hand without a case is very minimal in my experience in addition to the fact that this only has effect if you are in an area with bad reception, very much makes this a non-issue for most costumers. The fact that anyone would even have such a device without any sort of exterior protection is unimaginable to me. The consumer report's ridiculous recommendation of using a large piece of duct tape as oppose to recommending users purchase a case which not only prevents the issue while in low service areas but protects the overall device makes their point much more of an attention grab then a valid argument against the device.

I still plan on purchasing the iPhone 4 with a case that I would have gotten anyways and I wont feel cheated because having a case improves my service in the process. Realistically that doesn't reduce the value of the phone it increases the value of the case.

Wow, Brian Williams on NBC Nightly news just covered the iPhone/Consumer Reports story and sarcastically made fun of Apple's responses about "hold it differently" and that a "software fix" was coming.

Had my iphone 4 since day 1 release day.. Never had a problem with reception

NBC still does news?

Stop with the logic!

So are we now trying to discredit CR and NBC?

I understand what you're saying, but that is your opinion and it still doesn't solve the underlying problem. While many people DO buy a case to put on their iPhone for cosmetic/protection reasons, you SHOULDN'T have to buy one to make the phone function normally when holding it.

One of the main draws of the iPhone 4 was Steve's assertion that the new iPhone is sturdier with strong glass front and back, and features scratch resistant coatings. Adding to that, the phone just feels so good in my hands sans case.

So buying a case may fix Apple's design flaw, it negates the advances Apple made to make it a more attractive, sturdier device that shouldn't require such superfluous additions.

This is what CR said happened after they took them home with them-

Quote-

"While we've been unable to date to create the reported conditions in our National Testing Center in Yonkers, New York, I and a colleague did repeatedly experience loss of signal when using an iPhone 4 a few miles north of there today.

While in my home, I held the iPhone in my left hand, gripping it with normal pressure. My palm covered a gap between parts of the metal band that forms the outer ring of the iPhone and serves as its antenna. As I did so, I moved my pinky finger to the corresponding gap on the other side.

Almost immediately, the signal strength began to drop in the meter from the original three or four bars—depending on my location within the house—to zero bars. The drop took about 5 seconds.

Apple has admitted to problems with the metering on its iPhones, and there's some question about whether the drop in displayed signal is merely a metering issue, and whether call quality or the ability to place calls is affected.

In my informal tests today, however, the drop had a significant effect on both call success and quality. When the phone was in the low-signal state in my hand, calls placed to it from another cell phone (a Motorola Droid, running on Verizon's network) repeatedly failed.

And when I initiated a series of calls to editor Paul Reynolds, and then placed my pinky over the gap in the iPhone 4's band as I continued speaking, the calls consistently deteriorated. Paul first heard my voice breaking up, followed by static and the dropping of the call; again, the elapsed time from the placing of the pinky to the call being dropped was about 5 seconds."
~ http://blogs.consumerreports.org/ele...reports-s.html




Now several days later they have done thorough tests that confirm that the iPhone 4 is crippled.

I'm with you .... it seems to be true: The more things change, the more they stay the same. \

Oh yeah, that explains why a phone I bought for £40 ($60) on the same network as my 3G and now my iPhone 4 has never once lost reception in my house when both the 3G and iPhone 4 are always struggling to keep a signal.

Its an inexpensive work around for the Bumper, but its not a fix (its a workaround) and it likely comes with much more expensive costs if they did that. Specifically, even more lawsuits, but this time not just from customers but from case makers who feel they cant sell a case as easily as before it all iPhones come with a free case.



1) You know his AI alias, use it. It makes you sound immature and its grounds from being banned.

2) No iPhone 4 had a case when I did my testing. Do you really think that the extensive testing Ive mentioned in multiple posts that if it had a case I wouldnt have once thought to remove it? Seriously?! Ive mentioned using fingers and salt water, various pieces of metal!

Just an update on my situation. I have an iPhone 4 and have been having the reception issues at home. I just picked up my free 3G MicroCell from AT&T (I got a letter in the mail over the weekend).

My "death grip" problems are now over. I got 5 bars in most of my house before, but could quickly kill off the bars by doing the death grip. Now, I get 5 bars EVERYWHERE in the house and using the death grip results in no loss of bars.

I can now receive a phone call when holding the phone in the death grip instead of it going straight to voicemail. I can also make calls out when using the death grip.

I must say, I'm impressed.