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Consumer Reports changes stance, cannot recommend Apple's iPhone 4 - Page 9

post #321 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

The last item is what gets me. Does everyone know it's ok to be mad at Apple about this?


Calm down. It's just a cellphone.

As you are aware, Apple knows about the issue and has announced that they will issue an update to fix it.
post #322 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

I can join a class action lawsuit that their report has caused material damage to the price of the stock I own. In order to "defend" themselves they would need to make all the information available from their "tests".

And frankly, I don't care what the "point" of the duct tape bit was. It demonstrates a serious lack of professionalism when it comes to releasing a report that can impact the sales of millions of phones.

So... what you're saying is you'd like to sue a magazine because they can't recommend a product they've reviewed? Are you saying that people should sue every product reviewer that gives a bad review of a product, even though they're entitled to their own opinion under the constitution?

OMG! TEHY SAYZ THE IPHONES R BAD! I'LL SUE THEIR ASS!

I realize I'm feeding a troll, but Joe, you should at least be creative in your rants. Its not fun otherwise.
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post #323 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

The solution is simple: Apple should add the finish to the antenna in the production process. Once they start getting to the shelves, Apple & AT&T should allow users to replace theirs with these new fixed ones. The old ones get sent to a factory where they are sent through a disassembly process (which wouldn't even need to be that complicated) and the phone's antenna gets the new coat. The phones are then sold 25% off as refurbs online (random #, I dont know what they should cost).


Just use a Bumper or any one of the other cases available for the iPhone.

Problem solved.
post #324 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Um, I've still yet to meet anyone demonstrating that this is a 'problem'.

Again...
"Doc... it hurts when I do this."
"Then don't do that".

Move your GD finger a millimeter.

The antenna design is still a vast improvement for those not trying to get in on a phony class action.

How about:

"Doc... it hurts when I breathe."
"Then don't breathe".

All LCD monitors display some color shifting when viewed from different angles. But how would you like it if a company made a monitor that displays the worst color shifting when viewed straight on? And then they tell customers that it's normal for monitors to color shift at different angles, so the solution is simply to not look straight at the monitor, but instead look at it from 60 degrees off center.

How about a car which pulls to the side when the steering wheel is completely centered? Then the car company tells the customer to simply keep the steering wheel turned 90 degrees when driving straight ahead.
post #325 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It’s an inexpensive work around for the Bumper, but it’s not a fix (it’s a workaround) and it likely comes with much more expensive costs if they did that. Specifically, even more lawsuits, but this time not just from customers but from case makers who feel they can’t sell a case as easily as before it all iPhones come with a free case.



1) You know his AI alias, use it. It makes you sound immature and it’s grounds from being banned.

2) No iPhone 4 had a case when I did my testing. Do you really think that the extensive testing I’ve mentioned in multiple posts that if it had a case I wouldn’t have once thought to remove it? Seriously?! I’ve mentioned using fingers and salt water, various pieces of metal!

solipsism, you said you tested your iPhone 4 at a cafe with someone else there that had one. Yours you say didn't drop any bars and his did. When you tried his iPhone 4 you say his iPhone 4 dropped bars and when he tested your iPhone 4 it didn't drop any bars. I can believe that that would happen if yours had a case on it and his didn't, otherwise, no I find it very hard to believe. Perhaps you just didn't want to admit it because you wanted get back at those you considered trolls, but in all the testing I have seen all iPhone 4's behave the same way under the same circumstances.

annoyingmouse has called me a troll in just about every post he/she has replied to of mine amongst other insults. Annoyingmouse it is.
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post #326 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Just an update on my situation. I have an iPhone 4 and have been having the reception issues at home. I just picked up my free 3G MicroCell from AT&T (I got a letter in the mail over the weekend).

My "death grip" problems are now over. I got 5 bars in most of my house before, but could quickly kill off the bars by doing the death grip. Now, I get 5 bars EVERYWHERE in the house and using the death grip results in no loss of bars.

I can now receive a phone call when holding the phone in the death grip instead of it going straight to voicemail. I can also make calls out when using the death grip.

I must say, I'm impressed.

The reason you're experience is like that is in how the iPhone is reporting your signal strength. In short, the bars are useless. Five bars of strength have a signal range of about 40db, whereas the remaining 4 bars have an interval of around 13db. If you're on the "high" end of that 40db at 5 bars, the death grip will only drop about 20-25db of signal but keep you in the range of 5 bars, meaning you can still make calls. If you're on the "low" end of that 40db, the death grip may drop your signal below the threshold and thus, go from 5 to 0 very quickly.

In other words, its not surprising the MicroCell made a difference - you had poor reception in your home to begin with. Had the iPhone been properly reporting your signal strength, you would have seen an average of 1 or 2 bars to start with, not 5.

Apple's in for a world of hurt, because their next software update is going to expose just how terrible AT&T's reception is for a lot of people. People are going to think their "fix" actually broke their phones, and blood will flow in the streets. At least now people will know why their calls keep getting dropped.
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post #327 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

Frankly, if CR doesn't come out with a LOT more detail about this report, I for one would be willing to join a class action lawsuit against them to acquire and publish that info.


On what grounds? How were you injured?
post #328 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

I can join a class action lawsuit that their report has caused material damage to the price of the stock I own.


That sounds pretty far fetched. Got any examples of a successful suit in these circumstances?
post #329 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuusharo View Post

The reason you're experience is like that is in how the iPhone is reporting your signal strength. In short, the bars are useless. Five bars of strength have a signal range of about 40db, whereas the remaining 4 bars have an interval of around 13db. If you're on the "high" end of that 40db at 5 bars, the death grip will only drop about 20-25db of signal but keep you in the range of 5 bars, meaning you can still make calls. If you're on the "low" end of that 40db, the death grip may drop your signal below the threshold and thus, go from 5 to 0 very quickly.

In other words, its not surprising the MicroCell made a difference - you had poor reception in your home to begin with. Had the iPhone been properly reporting your signal strength, you would have seen an average of 1 or 2 bars to start with, not 5.

Apple's in for a world of hurt, because their next software update is going to expose just how terrible AT&T's reception is for a lot of people. People are going to think their "fix" actually broke their phones, and blood will flow in the streets. At least now people will know why their calls keep getting dropped.

Well, my wife's iPhone 3GS with iOS4 doesn't have any of the reception issues that my iPhone 4 had.

When doing the death grip on her phone, I could never get it to drop calls or seriously deteriorate internet speeds -- something that would easily happen with my iPhone 4.
post #330 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Well, my wife's iPhone 3GS with iOS4 doesn't have any of the reception issues that my iPhone 4 had.

When doing the death grip on her phone, I could never get it to drop calls or seriously deteriorate internet speeds -- something that would easily happen with my iPhone 4.

That's why I'm in no hurry to replace my 3GS just yet . I mean, that white iPhone 4 looks sexy, but until Apple fully cops to this problem and does the right thing for their customers (*hint: One free bumper case to every iPhone 4 owner*), I just can't feel comfortable making that purchase and extending my ties to AT&T for another two years. Apple has to earn my business - they don't inherit it.
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post #331 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Well, my wife's iPhone 3GS with iOS4 doesn't have any of the reception issues that my iPhone 4 had.

When doing the death grip on her phone, I could never get it to drop calls or seriously deteriorate internet speeds -- something that would easily happen with my iPhone 4.

Exactly, and by the way you deserved that fix from ATT, shame Apple hasn't been so helpful.
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post #332 of 405
Consumer reports main audience I've always thought is for people who either don't know what they are buying or barley enough/no nothing at all. I doubt one reviewer, Who considers duct tape to be a effective fix for it's products. Would convince me to not to buy the iPhone 4. This is just another one of Consumer Reports PR campaigns to get readers.
post #333 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

solipsism, you said you tested your iPhone 4 at a cafe with someone else there that had one. Yours you say didn't drop any bars and his did. When you tried his iPhone 4 you say his iPhone 4 dropped bars and when he tested your iPhone 4 it didn't drop any bars. I can believe that that would happen if yours had a case on it and his didn't, otherwise, no I find it very hard to believe. Perhaps you just didn't want to admit it because you wanted get back at those you considered trolls, but in all the testing I have seen all iPhone 4's behave the same way under the same circumstances.

annoyingmouse has called me a troll in just about every post he/she has replied to of mine amongst other insults. Annoyingmouse it is.

Oh, you're just annoyed because I showed you for a fool with your wild conspiracy theory about the 3G dialog at the WWDC, which turned out to be nothing but an indication that the phone wasn't activated.

But now, you're flat out calling solipsism a liar. We've seen that you yourself have little regard for the truth, but I think the evidence of his veracity points in the opposite direction. If you aren't a troll, I don't know what a troll is.
post #334 of 405
So, how many testers participated in this testing? One, two, or how many? Since everybody has different electrical resistance value, the signal attenuation will be different for each person touching the antenna gap.
post #335 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuusharo View Post

So... what you're saying is you'd like to sue a magazine because they can't recommend a product they've reviewed? Are you saying that people should sue every product reviewer that gives a bad review of a product, even though they're entitled to their own opinion under the constitution?

And and are you saying that Consumer Reports gets a free pass to say anything they like without publishing the test data to back it up, the stock market equivalent of shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, and owners of the stock in question have no recourse to demand to see that test data?

The "report" says that the loss of connection only occurs "if you're in an area with a weak signal". How weak exactly? They don't say. All they say is that 20 decibles is the amount of "drop" when touching the "gap".

And while it says other phones it tested didn't have "the signal-loss problems of the iPhone 4", that statement needs to be clarified, because as it stands it's patently untrue. ANY phone in a weak signal area that has its antenna covered can drop a call.

There's also the issue of IMPROVED signal that many owners are reporting. So there needs to be a serious reporting of how good the phone is versus the other phones when the antenna isn't covered. If it's markedly better, then that's an argument FOR the antenna.
post #336 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle172 View Post

This is just another one of Consumer Reports PR campaigns to get readers.


What are some of their others?
post #337 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

And and are you saying that Consumer Reports gets a free pass to say anything they like without publishing the test data to back it up, the stock market equivalent of shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, and owners of the stock in question have no recourse to demand to see that test data?


I believe that is correct. AFAIK, the stockholders are not the proper party in interest to bring such a suit.
post #338 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeb View Post

Had my iphone 4 since day 1 release day.. Never had a problem with reception

Ditto. And I normally hold it in my left hand, the "wrong" way. On occassion, it will drop a bar or two, but most of the time, it remains at 5 bars, even when bridging the gap between the two antennas on the left side. Nothing in my experience so far justifies CR's harsh position.

Flame away, haters.

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post #339 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

So are we now trying to discredit CR and NBC?

I don't think it's possible to discredit NBC news any more than they do themselves.

I'm not sure about CR. This story about the iPhone is troubling. I didn't read the actual CR article so I don't know if they apologized to their readers for jumping on the iPhone 4 bandwagon in the first place. It's for sure I will take what CR says with a bit of skepticism in the future.
post #340 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

But now, you're flat out calling solipsism a liar. We've seen that you yourself have little regard for the truth, but I think the evidence of his veracity points in the opposite direction. If you aren't a troll, I don't know what a troll is.

That’s alright. Luckily, reality doesn’t need his advice to exist. Since I don’t have a video (which could be faked anyway) I didn’t expect everyone to believe me; it mostly for the longtime readers here I know and respect. Hell, people are discounting CR’s report and they are the most well known for objective testing. If people don’t trust them, why trust me?
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post #341 of 405
Funny thing is last night I tried my friend's new iPhone 4G last night (to specifically duplicate all the YouTube videos as I'm waiting for the white iPhone) and couldn't get the bars to drop past 3 usually 4 bars. Even then it was a non-issue. Still could make calls on the Softbank network here.

I think there are a lot of people/companies out to see Apple fail. Can't wait to buy it before the end of the month.
post #342 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Just an update on my situation. I have an iPhone 4 and have been having the reception issues at home. I just picked up my free 3G MicroCell from AT&T (I got a letter in the mail over the weekend).

My "death grip" problems are now over. I got 5 bars in most of my house before, but could quickly kill off the bars by doing the death grip. Now, I get 5 bars EVERYWHERE in the house and using the death grip results in no loss of bars.

I can now receive a phone call when holding the phone in the death grip instead of it going straight to voicemail. I can also make calls out when using the death grip.

I must say, I'm impressed.

Please explain why you are impressed. I understand if it's over AT&T's provision of a free microcell, but if it's over the behavior of the iPhone 4, I need further explanation.
post #343 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Please explain why you are impressed. I understand if it's over AT&T's provision of a free microcell, but if it's over the behavior of the iPhone 4, I need further explanation.

I'm impressed that my death grip issues at home were resolved with a free MicroCell. If I had to pay, I'd be pissed.
post #344 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

Funny thing is last night I tried my friend's new iPhone 4G last night (to specifically duplicate all the YouTube videos as I'm waiting for the white iPhone) and couldn't get the bars to drop past 3 usually 4 bars.

I guess you haven't followed how the phenomenon seems to require being in a low-moderate signal area. Five bars unheld could mean you're in a strong signal area. If the bars only drop to 3 or 4 when the antenna gap is bridged for 20-30 seconds, then you're almost certainly in a strong signal area.

Quote:
I think there are a lot of people/companies out to see Apple fail.

That's for sure. There are also people--customers--who believe in all fairness Apple needs to own up to the design flaw and do something more than issue a software update to reduce the number of bars displayed in low-moderate signal areas.

Demand Apple bring back Field Test Mode in the next iOS 4 update.
post #345 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Thats alright. Luckily, reality doesnt need his advice to exist. Since I dont have a video (which could be faked anyway) I didnt expect everyone to believe me; it mostly for the longtime readers here I know and respect. Hell, people are discounting CRs report and they are the most well known for objective testing. If people dont trust them, why trust me?

I've read a lot of your posts and I think you are pretty fair with your opinions and reports. As far as the CR report goes, I don't have a dog in that hunt. But I do have a CR subscription. And I often factor in their reviews when I'm making a purchase. Having said that, I must say I thought the video was tacky. I mean, that last bit with a piece of raggedy duct tape stuck over the antenna gap makes me wonder about CR's motive. Maybe it was just a stunt to boost subscriptions?
post #346 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

I'm impressed that my death grip issues at home were resolved with a free MicroCell. If I had to pay, I'd be pissed.

You are paying for the broadband bandwidth used by the microcell. I've read that call quality and reliability usually increase over a microcell, though, so it's not like you're paying for nothing.
post #347 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazingApple View Post

How many iPhone 4's will it take, before I can get one that does work, is my question. Mine has been returned twice and I'm on iPhone 4 number three. All three will drop a call when picked up with two fingers anywhere on the sides.


This seems to be a common thread amongst people who experience the problem... which implies that it is not the specific phone that is at issue. Instead it would seem to be a function of the user (which is not to say it is some kind of user "error"). Between how you hold it with your hand, how you hold it next to your face, where you are, what the signal strength is, what the network load is, how much you are sweating, etc. the factors seem to add up to some people have issues and many don't. Some even say that bumpers don't solve the problem, which makes me suspect that they are actually having the proximity sensor issue, not a signal issue. If this theory is correct, it would explain how the phone could get through Apple's testing without raising any issues.

So rather than just getting a new phone repeatedly, try doing something different. Get a bumper. Hold different. Try calls on the headphones. Doing the same thing over and over is likely to generate the same result, at least until Apple changes the design in some way.
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post #348 of 405
It appears no problem exists after all.

http://www.tuaw.com/2010/07/12/apple...n-memory-hole/
post #349 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

It appears no problem exists after all.

http://www.tuaw.com/2010/07/12/apple...n-memory-hole/

How Terribly Pathetic...
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post #350 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

I usually trust Consumer Reports but the flip-flopping makes me call into question their "buyer beware" message. Has anyone experienced real time issues with the reception and call quality of the iPhone 4?

I am glad I am not an early adopter. It seems to me that Apple will have to do a recall...

Yes I have, since two days before the official launch. For those of you whom still are drinking the cool-aid stop it! This problem exist and cannot be covered up by a lying CEO. I think the SEC should investigate as an investor fraud case. Jobs is clearly not telling the truth. When he does admit it the lofty stock darling of Wall Street will have a hickie on her neck.
post #351 of 405
You know, something tells me that if Consumer Reports issued the same report about an Android or Windows Mobile phone, many people would be howling what a straight up and upstanding group Consumer Reports is...but this is Apple Insider after all...

All I can say is that I've had my iPhone 4 since launch day and I've dropped more calls in the last three weeks than I did in the last year with my 3GS. Unlike others, I use my phone for work and personal use so I sorta need the phone part to work reliably. I think the key thing to take away from CR article is "in weak signal areas". Where I live, I'm on the edge of the 3G/EDGE service area. My old 3GS would jump between the two all the time but I never dropped calls. With my Iphone 4, I get no bars to three at most (I know they are not reliable) and on calls, it's none or 1. What is most annoying is that I can drop calls with the phone just sitting on my desk, not being held. Dropping five calls in a row last week is what finally drove me to decide to go back to my 3GS...

I love everything else about the iPhone 4 but I think later this week, it's going back to Apple. My girlfriend isn't going to be happy since she has been using my 3GS since I got the I4 but I need a phone that works, at least for me and my situation. Notice I'm not jumping ship and going with Android because I've tried them and haven't been impressed. If there is some kind of fix that really fixes the issue, I'll be in line again to buy an I4...
post #352 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuusharo View Post

The reason you're experience is like that is in how the iPhone is reporting your signal strength. In short, the bars are useless. Five bars of strength have a signal range of about 40db, whereas the remaining 4 bars have an interval of around 13db. If you're on the "high" end of that 40db at 5 bars, the death grip will only drop about 20-25db of signal but keep you in the range of 5 bars, meaning you can still make calls. If you're on the "low" end of that 40db, the death grip may drop your signal below the threshold and thus, go from 5 to 0 very quickly.

In other words, its not surprising the MicroCell made a difference - you had poor reception in your home to begin with. Had the iPhone been properly reporting your signal strength, you would have seen an average of 1 or 2 bars to start with, not 5.

Apple's in for a world of hurt, because their next software update is going to expose just how terrible AT&T's reception is for a lot of people. People are going to think their "fix" actually broke their phones, and blood will flow in the streets. At least now people will know why their calls keep getting dropped.

Exactly. Sums it all up. Why is this that difficult for everyone?
If you are in location that has poor reception( that apple says is not conveyed properly by bar status), crossing the antennas( if that is a good term) drops the reception apparently more than other phones. Is it a problem? depends if you are in a weak signal area. I personally think it is an issue, but would like to see more test result that compare to other phones with an equally weak signal to quantify the results clearer.
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post #353 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

According to the Anand report it's both a software and hardware issue. Holding the phone that way does cause a signal drop, but it's only a few %. The bars software makes it look like 80%.

Some kind of non-conductive coating could reduce the real percent even further.

You got it a bit wrong.

Signal drop is up to 24dB.

Considering that 5 bars represent 51dB signal strength, 4 bars are between -91 and -101dB and 1 bar is -113dB... meaning that even with 4 bars signal coverage, by holding phone "wrong" way, you can get down to -125dB. Which is well bellow 1 bar.

Which means that only 5 bars can guarantee you not dropping call with "wrong" holding.
post #354 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartBuzz View Post

I've read a lot of your posts and I think you are pretty fair with your opinions and reports. As far as the CR report goes, I don't have a dog in that hunt. But I do have a CR subscription. And I often factor in their reviews when I'm making a purchase. Having said that, I must say I thought the video was tacky. I mean, that last bit with a piece of raggedy duct tape stuck over the antenna gap makes me wonder about CR's motive. Maybe it was just a stunt to boost subscriptions?

I stopped trusting CR when they recommended Packard Bell computers way back when PB still sold crap in the US. Most of their tech recommendations in fields I have some clue about were wrong or simplistic and I started wondering the value of their recommendations in fields I had no clue about.

That they may be subscription starved doesn't strike me as implausible given how easy product research has become on the net for most things.

As far as the iPhone 4, mine has the problem and it still has been the best phone ever...the only bad thing is I stuck the phone in my pocket with a bunch of keys and managed to scratch the back of the phone. I need a case and not for the reception problem.
post #355 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

You are paying for the broadband bandwidth used by the microcell. I've read that call quality and reliability usually increase over a microcell, though, so it's not like you're paying for nothing.

I'm already paying for the broadband bandwidth (uncapped RoadRunner via Time Warner Cable), so it's not like using the MicroCell is making my bill go up any higher...
post #356 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

I stopped trusting CR when they recommended Packard Bell computers way back when PB still sold crap in the US. Most of their tech recommendations in fields I have some clue about were wrong or simplistic and I started wondering the value of their recommendations in fields I had no clue about.

That they may be subscription starved doesn't strike me as implausible given how easy product research has become on the net for most things.

As far as the iPhone 4, mine has the problem and it still has been the best phone ever...the only bad thing is I stuck the phone in my pocket with a bunch of keys and managed to scratch the back of the phone. I need a case and not for the reception problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

Just use a Bumper or any one of the other cases available for the iPhone.

Problem solved.

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post #357 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

I'm impressed that my death grip issues at home were resolved with a free MicroCell. If I had to pay, I'd be pissed.

So what happens when you know, leave the house? I know GSM tech has greater issues penetrating indoors than CDMA, but I hope you get good 3g coverage everywhere else.

BTW, I hate the idea of a microcell. "Here, take this box so we can use your broadband access to fix our crappy 3g coverage...".
post #358 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Just an update on my situation. I have an iPhone 4 and have been having the reception issues at home. I just picked up my free 3G MicroCell from AT&T (I got a letter in the mail over the weekend).

My "death grip" problems are now over. I got 5 bars in most of my house before, but could quickly kill off the bars by doing the death grip. Now, I get 5 bars EVERYWHERE in the house and using the death grip results in no loss of bars.

I can now receive a phone call when holding the phone in the death grip instead of it going straight to voicemail. I can also make calls out when using the death grip.

I must say, I'm impressed.

Now all you have to do is figure a way to bring the microcell with you so you can make calls outside of your house.

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post #359 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle172 View Post

Consumer reports main audience I've always thought is for people who either don't know what they are buying or barley enough/no nothing at all. I doubt one reviewer, Who considers duct tape to be a effective fix for it's products. Would convince me to not to buy the iPhone 4. This is just another one of Consumer Reports PR campaigns to get readers.

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post #360 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

Exactly. When the software fix comes, all these haters at CR will eat their words.

When software "fix" comes, people will start complaining their iPhones never have full 5-bar signal. And they will be dropping calls like they already do.

I really don't see how's that "fix" going to help. Such "fix" already exist in my 3Gs, giving me "No Service" or 1 bar on couple of spots where my Nokia shows very strong signal and never goes into "No Service".

It only fixed my opinion that 3Gs has mediocre radio.
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