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Consumer Reports changes stance, cannot recommend Apple's iPhone 4 - Page 10

post #361 of 405
Haven't read all the posts-- just a few of the first and a few of the last.

Forgive me if this has already been posted:


Consumer Reports: "By the Way, the iPhone 4 is Also the Best Smartphone on the Market"

http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/2...on-the-market/

.
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"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

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post #362 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

How would using AT&T's own algorithm be 'screwing' AT&T?

Maybe because now iPhone users on AT&T will almost never have full signal indicator. I'm guessing sooner or later competition will use that to make some extra fun out of AT&T.
post #363 of 405
that all the detailed engineering that Apple goes through they'd overlook something so simple. They have pulled off design boners before, but this one deserves a merit badge.
post #364 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

Tape and bumpers are not the answer people. Seriously.

They need to apply a coating to the antennas. It would be clear but enough to stop the issue from happening. Unfortunately, that would involve a recall, or at the very least a trip to the Apple store and a Genius to swap out the antennas with coated ones.

Agreed. It's a beautiful piece of equipment but a failure to take into account the conductivity of human skin when in contact with the exterior of the device is undeniably a design flaw. Regardless of what Apple's official response is this generation I guarantee that the antennae on the iPhone 5 will be properly isolated.

Steve is well aware that an early recall of such a high profile product would cost money and tarnish Apple's brand image. But when you actively cultivate the idea that your company manufactures flawless products and those products are subsequently found to contain a significant flaw consumers of those products have the right to an appropriate response. It's a matter of meeting the expectations you have set for your company. By charging premium prices and advertising the iPhone as a premium product Apple is entering into a contract to provide a premium product.

Apple will choose to resolve this in the way that minimizes financial impact on the company. If it only affects a few sales Steve will stick to the software fix and hope it blows over. If it affects lots of sales the cheapest solution would be to bundle a bumper with every iPhone even though that would eliminate an additional income stream.
post #365 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by w00master View Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_teRloJf6yE

I make calls on my iPhone 4 just fine. The only time I got a lot of dropped calls was in a building that I was only getting a bar on anyway.
post #366 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Forgive me if this has already been posted:


Consumer Reports: "By the Way, the iPhone 4 is Also the Best Smartphone on the Market"

http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/2...on-the-market/

.

Yes yes, the glass is 5% empty. Anandtech also noted that while the external antenna is more sensitive to interference from touching, it's also more effective overall. As far as I'm concerned, what Consumer Reports originally said, that the iPhone 4's antenna issue is no reason not to buy, still holds true. Yes, I realize it can be a real issue for some owners, but by and large, the haters and the press are making a mountain out of a molehill. Apple has taken the unpopular stance that signal loss from how you hold any cell phone is normal (it is, it is just demonstrably more pronounced on the iPhone 4), and on a case by case basis, if you feel the iPhone 4's reception is unsatisfactory, your recourse is to return it (restocking fee waived). I think that's fair recourse. What bunches of very vocal people seem to think is that they are entitled to something more. Class action or free bumpers? An apology?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #367 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


Plenty of products have design trade-offs. I can't imagine a jury not understanding that.

What ?? If something like this ever went to jury, Apple is doomed. Settled out of court, even in the Eastern District of Texas.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #368 of 405
APPLE is sure to do something. Its aggravating to buy a piece of state of the art equipment and find out its not perfect. Yet the IPHONE 4 is still an amazing piece of equipment. For those that are not happy you can still return it .........DON'T CRY LATER.
post #369 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Yes yes, the glass is 5% empty. Anandtech also noted that while the external antenna is more sensitive to interference from touching, it's also more effective overall. As far as I'm concerned, what Consumer Reports originally said, that the iPhone 4's antenna issue is no reason not to buy, still holds true. Yes, I realize it can be a real issue for some owners, but by and large, the haters and the press are making a mountain out of a molehill. Apple has taken the unpopular stance that signal loss from how you hold any cell phone is normal (it is, it is just demonstrably more pronounced on the iPhone 4), and on a case by case basis, if you feel the iPhone 4's reception is unsatisfactory, your recourse is to return it (restocking fee waived). I think that's fair recourse. What bunches of very vocal people seem to think is that they are entitled to something more. Class action or free bumpers? An apology?

No one's going to listen to reason or make a rational choice. Apple are being held to a standard way higher than any other CE maker.
The antenna has problems, it's an attenuation problem resulting in a max loss of 20db when held. Yet the very same labs that have found this problem say it's the best antenna Apple have ever released.
What we have here is a failure to communicate - Apples incredibly poor PR contracts with their wonderful marketing. There's no way out of this for Apple now. Regardless of the phone doing exactly what they say. Apple will be hounded back into insignificance.

The reason isn't just the antenna - it's the expectancy from the consumer, it's the maneuvering of Apple's competition and it's the modern world of social media. Where every idiot who refuses to take back a phone they claim is broken get's air time.


The iP4 is faulty, but it's still arguably the best smart-phone on the market - just about every reviewer thinks that.

Where we go from here is depressing. Apple still thinks like an underdog it's not used to being the 800 lb Gorilla. Apple will develop siege mentality and effectively withdraw from the social conversation allowing others to write that story.

The world will lose a worthy rival to the likes of Google, MSFT, HTC - we'll be left with a lesser choice because having Android on every phone regardless of form factor is not choice ( but the Droid fan boys wont see that - Ironic Much? )

Apple wont go bust, but we're at an inflection point and the outcome wont be determined on the actual quality of the phone s both Droid based and iP4 it's going to be determined by people to stupid to return the iP4 if they think it's broke and buy a Droid and people who buy a phone worth $500 and cant be bothered to buy a protective cover.


How did we ever descend from the trees ?
post #370 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4 View Post

APPLE is sure to do something. Its aggravating to buy a piece of state of the art equipment and find out its not perfect. Yet the IPHONE 4 is still an amazing piece of equipment. For those that are not happy you can still return it .........DON'T CRY LATER.

That's part of the problem - tech has crossed the chasm regarding smart phones and most of the people talking about them have no clue.

People expect advert perfection and when they hold a gorgeous phone that doesn't do everything they dreamed it would . People scream murder.
post #371 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic8Ball View Post

What we have here is a failure to communicate - Apples incredibly poor PR contracts with their wonderful marketing. There's no way out of this for Apple now. Regardless of the phone doing exactly what they say. Apple will be hounded back into insignificance.
...
The world will lose a worthy rival to the likes of Google, MSFT, HTC - we'll be left with a lesser choice because having Android on every phone regardless of form factor is not choice ( but the Droid fan boys wont see that - Ironic Much? )

Apple wont go bust, but we're at an inflection point and the outcome wont be determined on the actual quality of the phone s both Droid based and iP4 it's going to be determined by people to stupid to return the iP4 if they think it's broke and buy a Droid and people who buy a phone worth $500 and cant be bothered to buy a protective cover.


Dramatic

At the moment Apple are riding the crest of the wave but they were never destined have majority market share in the phone market. It's just not in their DNA to be in the race to the bottom.

They might settle around 20% or so of the smartphone market which will continue to increase as a percentage of the overall phone market, but I think that's it. No one ever expected Apple growth to continue until they replaced everyone else!

The important thing is who those 20% of phone users are, and more importantly how much of a premium they are willing to pay for Apple products and services. I remember reading somewhere that Apple made more profit than any other phone manufacturer, even though their market share is relatively small.
post #372 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Dramatic

At the moment Apple are riding the crest of the wave but they were never destined have majority market share in the phone market. It's just not in their DNA to be in the race to the bottom.

They might settle around 20% or so of the smartphone market which will continue to increase as a percentage of the overall phone market, but I think that's it. No one ever expected Apple growth to continue until they replaced everyone else!

The important thing is who those 20% of phone users are, and more importantly how much of a premium they are willing to pay for Apple products and services. I remember reading somewhere that Apple made more profit than any other phone manufacturer, even though their market share is relatively small.

Dramatic ? - more pained and tired

Sure, no one ever expected Apple to have more than 30% of the smart-phone market. But rather than force Apple back into a siege mentality, I was hoping the iPhone 4 would move them into a more relaxed and open space. Facetime showed promise in that area. But all this will most likely curtail that. Apple will just retreat behind a wall of silence and "throw" their products over the fence at us ?
post #373 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

I'm an Apple fanboi, but this is f-ed up.

The company needs to swallow their pride and fix this issue.

/sarcasm on/
Yeah, I suspect they are doing absolutely nothing about it at all.
/sarcasm off/
When they have a fix, they will issue it and I'd bet it will be with little to no announcement about fixing reception issue at all. Just a simple firmware update.
post #374 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

What does the random homophobic remark add to anything? Even if Steve Jobs was gay (I know he isn't), and even if him and Jonny Ive were a couple, what would that have to do with anything?

This isn't 1974, the mere mention of gays is neither funny, risque, nor relevant all by itself. You've done this about five times that I can recall already, please stop. It's just not funny to chime in with some cryptic, off-topic reference to anal sex on a tech blog unless you are basically twelve years old or, (as I said above), still living in 1974.

I get it, OK? Your a homophobe, or maybe just a gay-hater, that much is crystal clear. It just doesn't have any relevance to this forum or any of the discussions we have on it.

Clearly you've taken my humorous comment a bit too seriously. Maybe it's the YouTubes, where "gay" is tossed around in a wide and mostly distasteful manner, and you perceive me as a childish "gay-hater" like those YouTube commenters.

I don't care whether Steve or Ives or whoever is gay or a couple or whatever. How would you know what my sexual orientation, history or preferences are anyways?

I get it, OK? The thought of anal sex makes you uncomfortable. Why the prudishness if I choose to inject such occasional jokes to lighten up the mood here?

I was just trying to make a point to a previous poster that Ives was in no danger of any kind of reprimand because Steve was clearly totally on board with the design of the phone and antenna system, and probably encouraged or championed it despite protests from the engineering teams. I discovered a pun in my post and thought I'd take advantage of that.

This whole reception thing is totally out of control anyway. Each reception issue article has 5+ pages of comments, maybe I've given up on any sort of sane discussion, and perhaps I question my own contribution (if that is even possible) on these issues.

Tell me you find my comments offensive, fine. But don't call me a homophobe.
post #375 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

I'm an Apple fanboi, but this is f-ed up.

The company needs to swallow their pride and fix this issue.

Used as directed there is nothing wrong with iPhone 4.
Quote:
I mean, c'mon, it took them 3 years to realize that there was a bug in the code that displays the signal bars? Give me an f-ing break. The code these guys work on would melt a Cray supercomputer, and a bug like that gets by them? If that's the case, the entire iPhone software team should be fired.

And you think this is any different than any other cell phone. The bars are at best a rough indication of signal quality.

Given this though when I see the bars go up and down right in front of me while using my 3G, should I blame the device? Of course not. It is a reality with all cell phones.
Quote:

I am taking my iPhone 4 into an Apple Store this week to get a refund, and a replacement 3GS.

What for? Have you personally experienced issues with the phone?

Honestly this is a knee jerk reaction. If you put a case on the phone you end up with the best mobile phone going. The case is only needed if you can't manage to hold the phone properly.
Quote:
And I also need to convince my wife that she's not getting the white iPhone she thinks she's getting later this month.

That is nice, you are overbearing and controling of your wife too. I can see a divorce coming on. Besides you don't even know if the white phone has the same problem.


Dave
post #376 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic8Ball View Post

Dramatic ? - more pained and tired

Sure, no one ever expected Apple to have more than 30% of the smart-phone market. But rather than force Apple back into a siege mentality, I was hoping the iPhone 4 would move them into a more relaxed and open space. Facetime showed promise in that area. But all this will most likely curtail that. Apple will just retreat behind a wall of silence and "throw" their products over the fence at us ?

It's a bit strange, that the iPhone4 was going to explode Apple out of their siege mentality, but I think at the end of the day, Apple is really not for everyone. At least more people will realise this and not blindy hope on the bandwagon. Call me an elitist, but more sustainable growth and sales can only be better for us "real" Mac, iPad and iPhone users.

iPhone4 was Apple's big reach to be really big, and it bit them in the ass. The success of the iPhone has led to, IMO, many issues with Macs and Mac support and service outside the US; Macs being neglected due to all the iPhone mania; perhaps all this will give a dose of sanity to everything Apple related. Who knows...
post #377 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

The case is only needed if you can't manage to hold the phone properly...

At the end of the day, this is the fundamental point of this whole debacle I cannot yet accept. Maybe if I see the phone in person and am so amazed, then, I could accept it.

It's halfway through 2010, how can there be a "proper way to hold a mobile phone"??? I mean, unless you're talking about holding it upside down and then complaining "oh, the other party can't hear me".

This whole "you're holding it wrong" concept is preposterous.

That's not a personal attack on you, I'm just saying, phone + hand = use of mobile phone. How could this have gone wrong in the design of the iPhone4?
post #378 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Yes yes, the glass is 5% empty. Anandtech also noted that while the external antenna is more sensitive to interference from touching, it's also more effective overall. As far as I'm concerned, what Consumer Reports originally said, that the iPhone 4's antenna issue is no reason not to buy, still holds true. Yes, I realize it can be a real issue for some owners, but by and large, the haters and the press are making a mountain out of a molehill. Apple has taken the unpopular stance that signal loss from how you hold any cell phone is normal (it is, it is just demonstrably more pronounced on the iPhone 4), and on a case by case basis, if you feel the iPhone 4's reception is unsatisfactory, your recourse is to return it (restocking fee waived). I think that's fair recourse. What bunches of very vocal people seem to think is that they are entitled to something more. Class action or free bumpers? An apology?

I think an apology would be best. It can only be good for Steve, Jonny, Apple, and customers and potential customers, users, and the tech industry.

It would show that someone, has the balls to step up and say, look, we do make some great stuff and some of the most intelligent, easy-to-use technology ever created by humankind. But, in this case, we went a bit too far, and we're going to address this issue, and learn from it.

Admittance, Acceptance, Moving Forward. That's what I think Apple should do. Whether I am a stockholder, or longtime user, or new user, or whatever.

However - if Apple can prove and publish substantially in their "tests" that the reception is still fine, that "holding it wrong" doesn't affect reception any more than other phones, fair enough, I won't need an apology.

*sigh* Maybe I'm going too far or just getting insane here. But just a simple, "We're going to address this" is what's needed more in the corporate world. I'm not talking about signal bar algorithms. Something more genuine.
post #379 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

I'm not questioning CR's testing methodology to arrive at their conclusions. I just question, especially since they knew at the time of their initial review where they said they could not duplicate the problem, knowing there was a problem, why they didn't do the above scientific experiment in their "special" room the first time around before making their report and issuing their conclusions?

Is Consumer Reports following the footsteps of their "reporter" brethren of the Main Street media by doing shoddy journalistic work and not obtaining the correct story, complete with facts and the like?

Actually, it's mainly just a case of CR wanting to release their review as early as possible. There was so much hype around the phone that they needed to get their review out before everyone had made up their minds to buy one or not - people tend to lose interest in reviews once their minds are already made up, and waiting a month for CR to do complete testing was something only their most rabidly loyal readers would have done.

Also, Apple disguising their phones as 3G's with the rubber bumper to maintain their absurd secrecy program has really bitten them on the ass now, hasn't it?
post #380 of 405
Hi

we live in Switzerland, altough the iPhone 4 is not officially available here, we drove quickly over to France and bought a couple of iPhone 4. We came back and tested them really hard... espescially we tested this reception issue and we have no issues here.

We use Swisscom in Switzerland, that's the largest Operator and there are no dropped calls, no signal loss, nothing ! We use to touch it around the antenna, we even touched it with our tongue ! nothing... it works, no issues here...

We think you have a problem with the operator, in Switzerland there is absolutely no signal issues and dropped calls, nothing!

Greeting

G
post #381 of 405
Quote:
Consumer Reports revealed on Monday that it cannot recommend the iPhone 4, even though the handset scored higher than its competitors in categories not related to reception. The just-released smartphone ratings concluded that the iPhone 4 has the "sharpest display and best video camera" seen on any mobile phone, along with improved battery life and new features like a forward-facing camera.

"But Apple needs to come up with a permanent -- and free -- fix for the antenna problem before we can recommend the iPhone 4," they wrote."


And I suppose that Apple will wait one year, until next June, before they fix the iPhone antenna for the next model because "Apple cannot be wrong".

Given the price of an iPhone 4, ~ $700, and its production cost below $200, one would believe that Apple would recall the iPhone 4 to offer free replacements with a new model variant which would include a second antenna like the upcoming Droid Phone. But "Apple cannot be wrong".


post #382 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan View Post

And I suppose that Apple will wait one year, until next June, before they fix the iPhone antenna for the next model because "Apple cannot be wrong".

Given the price of an iPhone 4, ~ $700, and its production cost below $200, one would believe that Apple would recall the iPhone 4 to offer free replacements with a new model variant which would include a second antenna like the upcoming Droid Phone. But "Apple cannot be wrong".



you're right, Apple isn't wrong ! did you read my post just before yours ? Again, in Europe no problem! And believe me we've got the same iPhones 4 as you have.. We tested them on 2 operators now (Swisscom AND Orange), no issues here ! This is BS ! You're problem must be the operator. Friends in France and UK say the same thing, no problem in Europe.. so why the hell should Apple redesign the iPhone like a crapy Android phone ? I believe that the operators infrastructure in the US is absolutely not state of the art anymore..

It works, Apple is right believe me.. we're very happy here with iPhone 4, believe me if there where an issue that would be all over the news here in Europe!
post #383 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapguru View Post

you're right, Apple isn't wrong ! did you read my post just before yours ? Again, in Europe no problem! And believe me we've got the same iPhones 4 as you have.. We tested them on 2 operators now (Swisscom AND Orange), no issues here ! This is BS ! You're problem must be the operator. Friends in France and UK say the same thing, no problem in Europe.. so why the hell should Apple redesign the iPhone like a crapy Android phone ? I believe that the operators infrastructure in the US is absolutely not state of the art anymore..

It works, Apple is right believe me.. we're very happy here with iPhone 4, believe me if there where an issue that would be all over the news here in Europe!

See that's what I have been wondering. In the UK and other parts of Europe, none of this crazy antenna hype... What is going on? So confusing.
post #384 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

See that's the thing, I was at an Apple store and could not reproduce it with any of the phones there.

In that case, I have a faulty phone?
post #385 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapguru View Post

you're right, Apple isn't wrong ! did you read my post just before yours ? Again, in Europe no problem! And believe me we've got the same iPhones 4 as you have.. We tested them on 2 operators now (Swisscom AND Orange), no issues here ! This is BS ! You're problem must be the operator. Friends in France and UK say the same thing, no problem in Europe.. so why the hell should Apple redesign the iPhone like a crapy Android phone ? I believe that the operators infrastructure in the US is absolutely not state of the art anymore..

It works, Apple is right believe me.. we're very happy here with iPhone 4, believe me if there where an issue that would be all over the news here in Europe!

My iPhone 4 is on the Orange network here in the UK, I can quite readily dissolve the signal to nothing and searching simply by shorting the antennas with my finger. So this isn't BS as you kindly put it, go get somebody with sweaty digits or lick your finger and try again.

BS indeed!
post #386 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Haven't read all the posts-- just a few of the first and a few of the last.

Forgive me if this has already been posted:


Consumer Reports: "By the Way, the iPhone 4 is Also the Best Smartphone on the Market"

http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/2...on-the-market/

.

Fits with what many of us have been saying. It is a great device. the best iPhone yet and among the best smartphone available. But, it has a serious issue. Is it a deal breaker issue? Not to me, but I fully understand CR suggesting it is a reason they cannot recommend it.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #387 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Maybe because now iPhone users on AT&T will almost never have full signal indicator. I'm guessing sooner or later competition will use that to make some extra fun out of AT&T.

Sure, but again, it is as suggested by AT&T themselves. If they suggest it, they either know the ramifications or they are in self imposed ignorance. In either case, any problems caused for AT&T by using AT&T's own algorithm is completely self imposed by AT&T.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #388 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Used as directed there is nothing wrong with iPhone 4.

1) Can you link to the directions in the user manual that state how to hold your phone?
2) Do you not see even a minor issue with a phone that needs to provide instructions on how to hold it?
3) Most people tend to use the phones in various positions and in various circumstances. Other than making sure the speaker is close to an ear and the mic is close to the mouth, people tend to consciously and unconsciously change their grasp during a call.

If your toilet for some reason required you to sit with your left leg held in the air, your right leg gently braced on the floor and both hands grasping the bowl in order to function correctly, would you say "Used as directed there is nothing wrong" with your toilet?

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #389 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapguru View Post

you're right, Apple isn't wrong ! did you read my post just before yours ? Again, in Europe no problem! And believe me we've got the same iPhones 4 as you have.. We tested them on 2 operators now (Swisscom AND Orange), no issues here ! This is BS ! You're problem must be the operator. Friends in France and UK say the same thing, no problem in Europe.. so why the hell should Apple redesign the iPhone like a crapy Android phone ? I believe that the operators infrastructure in the US is absolutely not state of the art anymore..

It works, Apple is right believe me.. we're very happy here with iPhone 4, believe me if there where an issue that would be all over the news here in Europe!

That's one of the problems with this discussion. No one is saying the need to make it an Android. That is just a stupid comment. People are saying, Apple needs to acknowledge and correct the problem.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #390 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

I guess you haven't followed how the phenomenon seems to require being in a low-moderate signal area. Five bars unheld could mean you're in a strong signal area. If the bars only drop to 3 or 4 when the antenna gap is bridged for 20-30 seconds, then you're almost certainly in a strong signal area.

You're right.. I haven't followed the procedure involving a multitude of negative environmental situations in order to make the antenna fail.

I bet if I flood the streets with water and oil I can make a 4WD fail miserably.

Again...my iPhone 4G owning friends have zero problems with their devices. I've also used their phones to replicate the YouTube videos. No luck in making calls drop.

Although I guess I could use a house key and cover both antennas to make the antenna fail just like the videos. Because we always cover the antennas with our house keys when making a call.
post #391 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic8Ball View Post

People expect advert perfection and when they hold a gorgeous phone that doesn't do everything they dreamed it would . People scream murder.


Exactly. It does everything perfectly, except make bacon and eggs in the morning. And people scream murder instead of just buying a Bumper.
post #392 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

At the end of the day, this is the fundamental point of this whole debacle I cannot yet accept. Maybe if I see the phone in person and am so amazed, then, I could accept it.

It's halfway through 2010, how can there be a "proper way to hold a mobile phone"??? I mean, unless you're talking about holding it upside down and then complaining "oh, the other party can't hear me".

This whole "you're holding it wrong" concept is preposterous.

That's not a personal attack on you, I'm just saying, phone + hand = use of mobile phone. How could this have gone wrong in the design of the iPhone4?

You know, it's getting quite tiresome that you've posted dozens and dozens of times complaining about how terrible Apple is because of the iPhone - yet you don't own one and have never even seen one in person (see above).

That appears to be 1/2 of the problem. People who don't have any clue what they're talking abuot are cluttering the discussion with their whining. How about sticking to something you can speak knowledgeably about?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan View Post

Given the price of an iPhone 4, ~ $700, and its production cost below $200, one would believe that Apple would recall the iPhone 4 to offer free replacements with a new model variant which would include a second antenna like the upcoming Droid Phone. But "Apple cannot be wrong".

Right off the bat, it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about. The production cost of the iPhone is not below $200. Someone estimated that the components cost under $200. Even if that estimate is correct (and there's no way of knowing unless you have access to Apple's purchasing docs), that leaves out all the production costs, R&D, overheads, marketing, support, warranty costs, etc.

It's also not even relevant. If I could make a product that only cost me $5 to manufacture, but people are willing to pay me $500 for it, why is my manufacturing cost any of your business? I set a price and you choose to buy it or not to buy it. It's that simple.
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post #393 of 405
For me the bumper completely fixed the reception issue. I definitely would never stand up for apple and dislike just about everything apple does (itunes, no flash, steve jobs is god etc.) But the iphone death grip is really blown out of proportion. Yes it's a design flaw, how many design flaw has windows or mac os had over the years? Whats the answer? DONT USE THEM. Use something that works better for you. People are acting like apple came to their house and put a gun to their head and said you have to buy this phone and keep it forever. Just use a case or take it back. The phone sucks with out a case anyway, its edges are really uncomfortable for any period of time.

It's a design flaw. But it's a small one that can be solved. Theres sites giving away free rubber cases to fix the issue. Just use a case and enjoy the phone because all though apple sucks at just about everything (IMHO), they've made a fantastic mobile device that actually gets really good reception once theres a case around it.

Just my .02 I'd rather complain about the phone not having flash on it (the complete internet as apple markets it) because theres no simple fix for that other then these jailbreak solutions that are starting to pop up.
post #394 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

You know, it's getting quite tiresome that you've posted dozens and dozens of times complaining about how terrible Apple is because of the iPhone - yet you don't own one and have never even seen one in person (see above).

That appears to be 1/2 of the problem. People who don't have any clue what they're talking abuot are cluttering the discussion with their whining. How about sticking to something you can speak knowledgeably about?

Firstly, the dozens and dozens of time are new posts in response to this, *ongoing* debate. Again, it is sad that some of us that have been Apple advocates in many ways, and previously very much accused of being fanbois, now stand accused of being trolls.

I have made responses related to the topics being discussed, I haven't blatantly started new threads, nor gone on way-off rants.

Do we need to own every model of every Apple product to comment, give opinions, and so on? I don't think so. The research, news, opinions, findings, are all out there for us to discuss, regardless of how much Apple stock or how many iPhones we own.

Name in my posts how I don't have any clue about what I'm talking about? Because I don't have a degree in radio antenna engineering? If I did have an iPhone4 that worked, then you might say I'm not knowledgeable about iPhone4s that don't work, and vice versa.

Some of us are here to comment on and discuss Apple's processes, procedures and the general goings-on of things. Just because some of us are "whining" about things we feel are unsatisfactory, doesn't make our views any less worthy than those that say everything's fine. This is a news site forum, not a iPhone Support forum.
post #395 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic8Ball View Post

That's part of the problem - tech has crossed the chasm regarding smart phones and most of the people talking about them have no clue.

People expect advert perfection and when they hold a gorgeous phone that doesn't do everything they dreamed it would . People scream murder.

I'm just intrigued at the possibility of whether it can or cannot perform some basic functions, eg. making a phone call. I'm just wondering what the situation is. Can it or can it not perform as a phone, we know about the rest, and it's great, and all that.
post #396 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

I'm just intrigued at the possibility of whether it can or cannot perform some basic functions, eg. making a phone call. I'm just wondering what the situation is. Can it or can it not perform as a phone, we know about the rest, and it's great, and all that.

Intrigued about what? Sure there are folks that are getting dropped calls but there are also plenty of folks that don't. Are you saying that those of us not having these day to day problems making calls on the iPhone 4 are lying or outliers? Or are only the negative reports "intriguing"?

You're just "wondering"? Really? I call BS on your protestations of innocent questioning. It's just a phone...a nice phone but that's all. Nothing all that intriguing about it to natter on about it incessantly.

I would understand if you OWNED an iPhone 4 and was pissed it was dropping calls all the time but that isn't the case.
post #397 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Intrigued about what? Sure there are folks that are getting dropped calls but there are also plenty of folks that don't. Are you saying that those of us not having these day to day problems making calls on the iPhone 4 are lying or outliers? Or are only the negative reports "intriguing"?

You're just "wondering"? Really? I call BS on your protestations of innocent questioning. It's just a phone...a nice phone but that's all. Nothing all that intriguing about it to natter on about it incessantly.

I would understand if you OWNED an iPhone 4 and was pissed it was dropping calls all the time but that isn't the case.

Ah well, AppleInsider used to be a fun place to post and discuss. Maybe I'll stop nattering on about it incessantly, perhaps when AppleInsider stops posting articles about it?

Actually, scratch that, I'm done with the negativity I'm getting. Yeah, it's just a phone. This is not worth even arguing about.

But if you all think there won't be comments continuing to criticize or at worst just try and dissect the issue, good luck with that.
post #398 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

It's halfway through 2010, how can there be a "proper way to hold a mobile phone"??? I mean, unless you're talking about holding it upside down and then complaining "oh, the other party can't hear me".

This whole "you're holding it wrong" concept is preposterous.

Preposterous or not, this has been an issue with every cellphone. Documentation and stickers saying where you shouldnt hold it have been around long before the iPhone so why only focus on this ONLY with the iPhone 4? The only concern is an excessive drop in dB from a touch, not a hold.

This whole issue has been thrown out of proportion and those with a balanced and real issue have been mostly ignored as the trolls have destroyed any legitimate argument they may have. Honestly, anyone who is waiting for iPhone 5 before buying is simply ignoring this as the best iPhone Apple has ever made and the best smartphone on the market.

Note that the iPhone 5 will sell even more units and its likely any little issue will seem even more pronounced next year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

I'm just intrigued at the possibility of whether it can or cannot perform some basic functions, eg. making a phone call. I'm just wondering what the situation is. Can it or can it not perform as a phone, we know about the rest, and it's great, and all that.

Of course it can. CR gives it a better rating for call voice quality than any other phone tested.

When it gets to you, why not give it a try. Have you ever spent this much time on any phone before buying it? The whole thing is absurd: if you have a problem you cant live with return it, if it works for you keep it. No CE will ever be issue free for everyone. Apple is not perfect, Foxxconn workers are not perfect, and all iPhones are not perfect.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #399 of 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

See that's what I have been wondering. In the UK and other parts of Europe, none of this crazy antenna hype... What is going on? So confusing.

That's because an average European only talk 150 minutes a month (300 minutes when counting receiving calls) vs. Americans talking about 800-900 minutes a month.

When you spend 3x more voice minutes a month --- you are going to notice drop calls a lot more.
post #400 of 405
I think consumer reports opinions hold about as much water as thimble in my little opinion. At one minute they recommend the phone.... and the next they don't. Hmmmm.... seems like they really know what the hell they're talking about. NOT! If you want some honest, REAL assessment just search the web a little bit and you can get some real answers. I wouldn't buy a car based on CR.... I wouldn't buy a vacuum based on idiot CR opinion.... nor will I buy anything else, let alone another iPhone based on what those dip shits think.

Consumer Reports = The phone book..... both pretty much obsolete now.... why do you listen to them?

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