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Consumer Reports changes stance, cannot recommend Apple's iPhone 4 - Page 3

post #81 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kent909 View Post

There are many issues with technology in general. The current iPhone 4 problem is just one of them. The thing that amazes me is that if I were to buy an iPhone 4 and use it to replace my Vonage phone my monthly bill would go from $30 to $104 minumum. Why is no one complaining about how much money to costs to use one of these phones. They may be smart phones, but the people using them are not real smart.

What are you talking about? Everybody who owns a cell phone complains how much it costs. Every single person who has ever had a hole burned in the their bank account while happily roaming (happens only once!) are complaining. But IP telephony has its own problems. So far I have not found a satisfactory IP solution. Specially not one I can use anywhere anytime.
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post #82 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:31am
No issues here. For those that have issues, return it. - Get whatever flavour of droid that takes your fancy. just STFU and get on with life.

Spend your time doing something about the gulf spill. Contact your reps in congress, put your fat mouth to work for something worthwhile!
:-D * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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:-D * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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post #83 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

Apple extends the unemployment number by one. In other news, Design Guru, Jonathon Ives, is looking for a new gig... \

Nah, Steve was probably 100% behind Jonny Ives on this one and they were both loving it. Get my drift?

Loving my iPad though, hey, Apple's not perfect, they just went one design step too far on the iPhone4.
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post #84 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post

Citation needed.

Not really, it's pretty obvious.
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post #85 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

An RF engineer interviewed by Leo LaPorte and referenced on latest MacBreak weekly podcast stated categorically that this business of bridging the two antennas with skin is pure nonsense. The tape solution is useless because there is no problem there. The actual problem has to do with signal blocking, and that occurs when the hand covers enough of the antenna when signal strength is already weak. This calls into question CR's results. I generally respect their intentions, but I don't think they researched this issue fully enough before announcing results. Hope Apple challenges them.

I agree.

Consumer Reports as an organisation responds very quickly to user input. It pretty much has to given what it does. So I read this as them being forced to test by reason of hundreds of consumers who contacted them because they were angry over the first report. This report walks back the first report a bit, but it's not necessarily definitive (or even accurate based on what you say above), and it still doesn't say anything wildly different from Apple's own statements on the problem.

Essentially it just says that if you're in an area of weak signal, blocking the antenna will degrade the signal so much that it may drop. Almost word for word what Apple's statement was.

Am I the only one that actually *likes* the new antenna design? I have used a few cellphones and it always annoyed me how you could never seriously tell what the signal was and how there was seemingly no relation between the bars and the signal you are getting. It was all so vague.

I *love* the fact that iPhone 4's bars will now tell you more accurately when you have a bad signal, and I *love* the fact that I can easily see if I'm blocking the antenna or not. It's not hard to hold the phone "the proper way," in fact it's easier than any other way. I find it a bonus that now I know exactly how to hold the phone to get the best signal even when i'm in a low signal area.
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post #86 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:37am
Well, this debate has been raging forever and while I'm sick of hearing about it, as a professional in the industry I'm interested to see how it plays out.

I've held 3 different iPhone 4 devices in my hand and deliberately covered the "bad spot", held it tight, and made calls. I haven't been able to duplicate the problem myself.

At the same time, I've always trusted Consumer Reports testing methods, and I don't believe they're lying. I just find it odd that if it's a design problem, it can't be reproduced 100% of the time. It should be simple: touch the black strip, have a reception issue. Clearly that's not the case though, as even CR was at first unable to duplicate the problem.

So what the heck is really going on? I'm fascinated to find out. Is it a minor problem that only occurs in bad reception areas? Does it have to do with the person holding it (they could be sweating, or have particularly conductive in some way)? Or is it a glitch that affects some percentage of phones, while others are spared?

I'm also pleased as heck that my 3GS is still in pristine condition with a strong battery, and I have no use for a front-facing camera.
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post #87 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

Has anyone experienced real time issues with the reception and call quality of the iPhone 4?


This is a non issue. The only "problem" is the bar display, which is going to be improved in a software update real soon now.
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post #88 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:38am
Not an expert, just my 2 cents worth.

The problem is real, but it is not as simple as bridging the 2 points. It is a matter of covering a certain part of the antenna and somehow "blocking" the signal.

Many people have latched on to this point and said that maybe Apple should have left the antenna inside the phone but putting it inside the phone would have made the initial signal weaker to begin with, probably not much different from covering it with the "grip of death".

It is a matter of compromise. Have a weaker but consistant signal all around by having the antenna on the inside and insulated or have better reception most of the time except when you cover a certain part of the antenna? Even then, the worst reception of an external antenna may be exactly the same as the best for an internal antenna.
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post #89 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

This is a non issue. The only "problem" is the bar display, which is going to be improved in a software update real soon now.

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post #90 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

You make some very good points. But you should know that, in my experience (with my handset), it is not only in weak signal areas: it happens when there is a full five bars (I've now seen that in five different cities I've traveled to).

Good luck with yours!

But that's exactly what he's saying. What appears to be 5 full bars to you, could really be a 3-bar signal area, and maybe not even a stable one at that.
I've been in areas where, standing still, the signal will flucuate between 2-4 bars for no obvious reason.

Fixing the software will not fix the hardware design problem, but it will at least let you know for certain what the true signal strength is when the problem occurs. so we can make a valid determination. Remember, right now 5 bars is probably not 5 bars.
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post #91 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeDyndale View Post

As has been noted before in the letter sent to Jobs from that PhD guy, this issue is extremely simple to fix. Simply spray a coating of some kind of plastic material over the problem area on the phone. It won't even be visible. Apple Stores will probably offer this for free in the near future. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out how to do it yourself though, so this isn't really a problem. Sure, the phone shouldn't have had this issue in the first place, but so long as Apple offers a free and simple fix like the one mentioned I don't have any issue with it. I'm still gonna get an iPhone 4 as soon as it goes on sale here in Norway. Calm down people. This is a problem, but the solution is either free or extremely cheap, and easy to implement.

if you enter ZAGG's weekly FREE iPad contest, they email you a discount code from 20-50% off you can use to get their iPhone 4 Full Body Maximum Coverage kit for less than their $25 list price. I ordered mine last week for 50% off. Problem solved.

Still waiting for White though.

Oct 3.2GHz 08 MP, 32GB, 512SSD, 15TB HDs
2.6GHz 6GB 17"HD LED MBP, Sony 52XBR6 HDTV
EyeTV 500, Hybrid 2G, EyeTV 3 HDTV Recorder
64 ATT iPhone 5, 64 ATT iPad 4, 64 Touch3G, 16 Nano6G

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Oct 3.2GHz 08 MP, 32GB, 512SSD, 15TB HDs
2.6GHz 6GB 17"HD LED MBP, Sony 52XBR6 HDTV
EyeTV 500, Hybrid 2G, EyeTV 3 HDTV Recorder
64 ATT iPhone 5, 64 ATT iPad 4, 64 Touch3G, 16 Nano6G

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post #92 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:42am
It's been over 20 years that I wrote off Consumer Reports as a credible organization for evaluating technology and electronics. For the most part I have found their recommendations a joke and not worthy of my time. For good reason they have typically been ignored by the tech media, and it was only recently did they garner some interest among Apple owners because of their strong recommendations of Apple products.

I'd bet money that CR rated Dell Optimus computers very highly in 2003-05, the very time that Dell was blanketing the market with knowingly defective computers.

With it recently rating Mac computers so highly, I was beginning to think that Consumer Reports might actually be worth reading after all. I'm relieved they sent out this about-face on the iPhone 4, they re-affirmed my view of how bad they are.

My iPhone 4's reception is the best I've ever had in a cell phone...
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post #93 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by iancass79 View Post

For all of the people that bashed the ones of us that said there is a problem and pointed out that Consumer Reports said it was "OK", SUCK IT.

present it?
Tofino
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Tofino
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post #94 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

It's not hard to hold the phone "the proper way," in fact it's easier than any other way. I find it a bonus that now I know exactly how to hold the phone to get the best signal even when i'm in a low signal area.


There are seemingly sufficient customers of your profile for Apple to make record profits. But we stockholders need even more.

Good for you! Tell all your friends that is NOT a bug, but instead, it is a wonderful feature!
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post #95 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:43am
Not an issue. Love it. The reception is much better than I had with 3G and 3Gs. If you ever get into a twilight zone of dead reception, just don't cover the gap if you are so concerned.
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post #96 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by iadroidx View Post

This Consumer Report video of the iPhone4 is absolute pure win!

Outstanding Pure Win!

Do you hear that Mr. Jobs? Consumer Reports cannot recommend the iPhone4.

But I guess this is a "Non Issue"

However there is still light at the end of the Tunnel former Apple boys n girls.

Its called.....





*btw..... where are those sexy White iPhone4's?
Or did they walk off the job and transform into White HTC's. Rumor has it that HTC in White has surfaced the retail floor today!

What? And get a spontaneously rebooting, crappy browsing, malicious-code-harboring EVO? Been there, done that.
Oh yeah - how's that 8 megapixel video treating ya?
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post #97 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:44am
And yet my wife and I were remarking just last night how fantastic our experience with our iPhone 4s have been. I guess we'll throw them away.

Not.

Will Consumer Reports retest every cell phone ever made for this phenomena?

No.
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post #98 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

You don't know. You can trust them or leave them. If you want, pay for the testing yourself. Anandtech's findings mirror what CR found.

What Apple didn't say is the problem. They didn't acknowledge the actual, iPhone 4 specific issue.

Yep, to me that's what's most disappointing, I would have thought better from Apple, won't any more.
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post #99 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinoza2 View Post

It's been over 20 years that I wrote off Consumer Reports as a credible organization for evaluating technology and electronics.

Well, they are good if you need to buy a lawn sprinkler or a washing machine
For hi-tech - cameras, cell phone - agree, don't even bother to read them.
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post #100 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Not knowing exactly the entire process behind the writing, approval and posting of the letter, I will only say that it was a bit of stupidity as a PR move.

But, it's possible that at the time they wrote and posted it, they either weren't aware of, or in denial about, the issue of bridging the seam, and the letter was intended to be one of those, "This isn't really an issue and here's why," things that they considered would be of no consequence in the long-run.

We don't know the process, but we do know that Apple is very careful with the information they release. If they said that the bars display algorithm was a bug, a mistake, a surprise, then they were either being truthful and it is a bug or they were lying.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #101 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by iadroidx View Post

This Consumer Report video of the iPhone4 is absolute pure win!

Outstanding Pure Win!

Do you hear that Mr. Jobs? Consumer Reports cannot recommend the iPhone4.

But I guess this is a "Non Issue"

However there is still light at the end of the Tunnel former Apple boys n girls.

Its called.....





*btw..... where are those sexy White iPhone4's?
Or did they walk off the job and transform into White HTC's. Rumor has it that HTC in White has surfaced the retail floor today!

Oh yey! Something even more unreliable! That's what I need. Seriously I would buy an non Apple smartphone, but until they get rid of this android rubbish, I just won't. WebOS save us... please!
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post #102 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinoza2 View Post


With it recently rating Mac computers so highly, I was beginning to think that Consumer Reports might actually be worth reading after all. I'm relieved they sent out this about-face on the iPhone 4, they re-affirmed my view of how bad they are.


Yeah.

If they like the Mac, they are good. If they about-face on the iPhone, they are bad.

Very bad.
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post #103 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

I usually trust Consumer Reports but the flip-flopping makes me call into question their "buyer beware" message.

Indeed. Why didn't they run this chamber test the first time. What did they do that time that didn't recreate the issue.

Quote:

Has anyone experienced real time issues with the reception and call quality of the iPhone 4?

Nope. No issues at all. Had a couple of instances of bar dropping but even then, my calls went through fine. and that was even in the San Fernando Valley were reception is dicey
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post #104 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by s4mb4 View Post

i sold my 16 GB iPhone 4 on eBay for a cool $800. let that guy deal with the death grip issue. it is real and it is a pain in the a$$.
going back to my google N1 for awhile.

I call troll.
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post #105 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

We don't know the process, but we do know that Apple is very careful with the information they release. If they said that the bars display algorithm was a bug, a mistake, a surprise, then they were either being truthful and it is a bug or they were lying.

Exactly. When the software fix comes, all these haters at CR will eat their words.
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post #106 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by iadroidx View Post

As the saying goes.........

So, what does a whole lot of shitty droids get you?

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #107 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Ive never seen a restocking fee on a cellphone within the 30-day trial period. I think it might be law since the device has to be used with a carrier.

There was one when I tried out the HTC Incredible.
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post #108 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Um, I've still yet to meet anyone demonstrating that this is a 'problem'.

You may not have "met" anyone that can show you the problem, so you may choose to not believe what you are being told. Evidently you are not doing any research on the topic either. There are plenty of clips demonstrating the the ability to drop calls and stop data downloads on que. Speed tests confirm it as well. Keep in mind that if you try to replicate these tests in areas with very strong AT&T signal, you will fail to reproduce it. This is why some folks are having great service, while others experience significant problems. It seems like many areas I travel to in the U.S. has less than ideal signal strength. In these areas the iPhone 4 seems to work best for me if you set it on a table and don't touch it at all when it is trying to work. I have been just using a headset or speakerphone when making calls. If I forget and pick it up, the call will drop in about 20 seconds. After about 10 seconds, the person on the other end will start complaining that the call is cutting out.

Several coworkers and I all have the new iPhone 4 and all of us can drop calls and stop data downloads on que by just holding the phone with two fingers. No need to use any kind of squeezing death grip. It is so easy to do that we will routinely terminate the call in this manner with friends just for the fun of it. We all had 3GS iPhones previously with no reception problems whatsoever.
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post #109 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:55am
I have an iPhone 4 and I have not been able to reproduce the reception problems that are described here.

So I don't think this is widespread.
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post #110 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

I'm an Apple fanboi, but this is f-ed up.

The company needs to swallow their pride and fix this issue.

Sure they do, but lets keep perspective. there is still no proof that this is a 'major design flaw' and not just a bad batch of units or some such

Quote:

I mean, c'mon, it took them 3 years to realize that there was a bug in the code that displays the signal bars? Give me an f-ing break.

Again, you need to chill a bit. It wasn't a bug. As they admitted they weren't using the most accurate formula and are going to switch to one that is better.

but in the end, it's moot. Those bars have nada to do with reception really. They are about how close you are to a tower and that's all. You can be right under a cell tower and if it's maxed out on connections your call will fail or drop. Or you can be at the edge and just barely picking up the presence of a tower and barely anyone is on it and your call is fine.

Also dropped calls are just as much about a tower being hit by massive connection attempts etc as they are about shitty cell phone design. In fact I would hazard it is more often about the number of connections/attempts than the phone.

Quote:
I am taking my iPhone 4 into an Apple Store this week to get a refund, and a replacement 3GS. And I also need to convince my wife that she's not getting the white iPhone she thinks she's getting later this month.

this is your right. And it is truthfully what all the 'the iphone 4 is shit' complainers should do. IF thousands of folks return the phone citing reception (which I doubt will actually happen) then they won't be able to say they haven't seen evidence of a major issue. But it needs to be hundreds of thousands to really stand out against the millions of phones sold.
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post #111 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

Exactly. When the software fix comes, all these haters at CR will eat their words.

It's more of a software "fix", where Apple removes the false bars it had put there in 2008 because of the low bars the iphone was getting at that time. Screwing the customer and AT&T, but saving itself. Classic Apple behavior right there.
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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post #112 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:56am
Bottom line is, this isn't even close to a real-world test, and is therefore irrelevant. Everything I've heard from people who have actually tested this by making calls, when compared to what a 3G or 3GS could do, report that the iPhone 4 has better reception, exactly in line with my own experience. CR, you fail.
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post #113 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

We don't know the process, but we do know that Apple is very careful with the information they release. If they said that the bars display algorithm was a bug, a mistake, a surprise, then they were either being truthful and it is a bug or they were lying.

Which is why I think they were either unaware of the full extent of the issue or in denial about it, thus dismissed it as a non-issue that didn't require a serious response, which was an atypical blunder on their part. One odd thing about that letter is that it does not read like the typical, matter of fact (although sometimes somewhat hyperbolic), Apple press release.
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post #114 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kent909 View Post

There are many issues with technology in general. The current iPhone 4 problem is just one of them. The thing that amazes me is that if I were to buy an iPhone 4 and use it to replace my Vonage phone my monthly bill would go from $30 to $104 minumum. Why is no one complaining about how much money to costs to use one of these phones. They may be smart phones, but the people using them are not real smart.

Kent can you make calls on that vonage phone from a 747 sitting on the runway, or from the concourse of an outdoor mall? Can you surf the web on it? How about store your music collection on it and listen whenever you want? What about Movies - can you rent them and watch at you leisure? Can you take pictures with it? How about video - can you use it to record your kids at the zoo or their silly antics in the backseat of the car? Can you get driving directions to your dentists office? Turn by turn instructions? Can you look up 'sushi' and get a precise list of every sushi restaurant within 1 mile, and also get precise driving directions from your current location? How about play a video game? Check your stocks? Check your blood sugar? Track your wife's pregnancy? Figure out which way is due east? Record your thoughts? Send and check email?

No?

Maybe there is more to these devices, and the 'not real smart' people who use them, than you initially thought.
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post #115 of 405
7/12/10 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

It's more of a software "fix", where Apple removes the false bars it had put there in 2008 because of the low bars the iphone was getting at that time. Screwing the customer and AT&T, but saving itself. Classic Apple behavior right there.

So they're screwing AT&T by using the formula that AT&T recommends. Indeed, your logic is irrefutable.
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post #116 of 405
7/12/10 at 10:00am
I love my iPhone 4. I don't use a case with it, and I don't have any reception issues at all. In fact, I get better reception then I did with my old iPhone.

Yes, I hold it sometimes with my left hand covering the bottom left corner. It doesn't cause any reception issues for me.
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post #117 of 405
7/12/10 at 10:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

It's more of a software "fix", where Apple removes the false bars it had put there in 2008 because of the low bars the iphone was getting at that time. Screwing the customer and AT&T, but saving itself. Classic Apple behavior right there.

How would using AT&T's own algorithm be 'screwing' AT&T?

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #118 of 405
7/12/10 at 10:01am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg
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post #119 of 405
7/12/10 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by iancass79 View Post

The case, although helpful, doesn't solve the issue like others say. I bought the "magic reception fix" bumper and it did help, but did not fix the issue.


Which is exactly why they told their people NOT to give away bumpers. The whole 'magic fix' thing is actually the creation of the various blogs. It's not an official stance. They are telling people "some users have reported that the use of a bumper helps" not "get a bumper it fixes everything"

If they had known there was a major design issue when they released the phone and the bumper was THE fix, they would have put one in the box. Having it right there, 90% of folks would use it without question and have no idea this horrible issue exists.
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post #120 of 405
7/12/10 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtDecoDalek View Post

So they're screwing AT&T by using the formula that AT&T recommends. Indeed, your logic is irrefutable.

They screwed AT&T in 2008 by falsely elevating the number of bars so that when customers had call drops at 5 bars, they were blaming AT&T for a poor network instead of Apple for displaying 5 bars instead of 0 bars.

They are screwing AT&T now when they software-drop 2-3 bars, so that "more bars in more places" will mean "fewer bars in more places".
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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