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Blu-ray chairman disagrees with Apple chief's assessment of format

post #1 of 219
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The Blu-ray Disc Association chairman said this week that adoption of the high-definition disc format is on par with that of DVD, countering an argument from Apple chief executive Steve Jobs that the format is a fad whose days are numbered.

Italian Mac website sette B.it asked chairman Andy Parsons to respond to an alleged email from Jobs comparing the Blu-ray format with failed "high-quality audio formats" that were supposed to come after CDs. In reply, Parsons quoted statistics that put Â*Blu-ray adoption at the same market penetration rate as that of DVD after an equivalent time on the market.

Although he acknowledged the increasing importance of streaming and downloadable content, Parsons predicted that "Blu-ray Disc will continue to dominate for many years," citing several factors such as ease of use and durability.

Parsons remarks come in response to an unconfirmed email sent by Steve Jobs to one customer.

"Bluray is looking more and more like one of the high end audio formats that appeared as the successor to the CD - like it will be beaten by Internet downloadable formats," Jobs allegedly wrote. When pressed further, the Apple co-founder purportedly said that "free, instant gratification and convenience (likely in that order)" were the main reasons for the adoption of the MP3 format, rather than the lack of DRM. The email added that "the downloadable movie business is rapidly moving to free (Hulu) or rental (iTunes)" and predicted a "fast broad move to streamed free and rental content" of at least 720p.

A spokeswoman for the Blu-ray Disc Association pointed out that Apple had not confirmed the emails were actually sent from Jobs. Â*She also noted that Apple had recently denied that Jobs had authored emails that were posted online, presumably the emails about iPhone 4 reception issues that were published on a popular mobile blog several weeks ago.

Still, Jobs has gone on record at least once to discredit Blu-ray as a viable platform for his company's Mac computer line, calling it "a bag of hurt."

"I donÂt mean from the consumer point of view," Jobs said at a company event back in October of 2008. "ItÂs great to watch movies, but the licensing is so complex. WeÂre waiting until things settle down, and waiting until Blu-ray takes off before we burden our customers with the cost of licensing."

A year later, Jobs and Co. reportedly gave Blu-ray another go during the development of the latest 21- and 27-inch iMacs. People familiar with the matter had said that the high-def drives were to ship in the high-end model and be available across the rest of the product family as build-to-order options.

But in the weeks leading up to the October launch of the new all-in-one desktops, all signs of Blu-ray were scrapped from evaluation units (and other Macs under development) due to lingering problems.

One issue, according to people familiar with the matter, was that Apple management -- including Jobs -- felt Blu-ray licensing fees were still too steep for the length of time they believed the technology would remain relevant in the market place. There were also reportedly both software and hardware related issues that would have demanded too much engineer effort to overcome.

Currently, none of Apple's hardware offerings support the Blu-ray format, although some of their software allows the burning of Blu-ray discs through an external drive.
post #2 of 219
Well, I'm stunned to find that he thinks Blu-ray will be a huge success.
post #3 of 219
lol how many years did it take for America to switch from VCR to DVD?

It's safe to say that DVD's not going anywhere soon.
post #4 of 219
I hate optical drives with a passion.
Their days be numbered and thats that.
I will give blue raymond 2 years max before it begins to fizzle out rapidly.
post #5 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

I hate optical drives with a passion.
Their days be numbered and thats that.

Uh-oh. Don't say that. You know how many idiots are going to be upset they can't watch Transformers 2 in "HD" on their Macs? They've got nothing else to live for!
post #6 of 219
...It would be news if he *did* agree.
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post #7 of 219
Quote:
There were also reportedly both software and hardware related issues that would have demanded too much engineer effort to overcome.

I can't believe this is still the case. As for licensing, build it into the cost of an add-on BR option and let customers make the decision.

It would be one thing if most Macs didn't already have an optical drive of some sort, and Apple was hesitant to add something entirely new. But instead they added a SD card slot into the latest Mini while still including the standard DVD drive. Just add it as an option and see if customers are willing to pay for the upgrade. There's almost no risk for Apple to do so (especially on the already-expensive Mac Pro, which offers a second optical drive and other esoteric options such as a fibre-channel card!)
post #8 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

I hate optical drives with a passion.
Their days be numbered and thats that.
I will give blue raymond 2 years max before it begins to fizzle out rapidly.

I hope not. I have an optical drive with each of my computers and a optical drive is connected to each of my TV's. And the optical drive is the way I rip movies for my AppleTV.
post #9 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by oxygenhose View Post

Uh-oh. Don't say that. You know how many idiots are going to be upset they can't watch Transformers 2 in "HD" on their Macs? They've got nothing else to live for!

"Transformers 2 " yeah that would be about right
post #10 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123 View Post

I hope not. I have an optical drive with each of my computers and a optical drive is connected to each of my TV's. And the optical drive is the way I rip movies for my AppleTV.

It's inevitable. I'm sure you will get reasonable mileage out of your kit. Nobody is going to stop supporting it overnight. But the number of people buying blue ray will peak pretty soonish.
post #11 of 219
BDs days ARE numbered.

But its nice big number BD support would be welcome (at least as an option).

And if BD isnt in that much demand, then its not something Apple need fear will compete too much with the Internet-video future.
post #12 of 219
How well are Blue-Ray discs going in comparison to iTunes movies
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post #13 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

But the number of people buying blue ray will peak pretty soonish.

I'll mark that on my calendar then.
post #14 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

I hate optical drives with a passion.
Their days be numbered and thats that.
I will give blue raymond 2 years max before it begins to fizzle out rapidly.

Bluray is good for one thing and one thing only: 1080p MKV rips. No DRM, no BS on cutting down the audio or bit rate or resolution, just h.264 HQ rips.

Long live Thepiratebay.org!
post #15 of 219
Yes, Steve Jobs, BluRay licensing costs are "too high" for you, but you're more than happy to raise prices for everyone else.

Blimey hypocrite.
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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post #16 of 219
Steve Jobs is correct and Andy Parsons is an idiot. They rushed an incomplete format (Blu-ray) to market and it shows. There is no similarity between the introduction of DVDs and of Blu-ray. DVD video was a unified format and everyone got behind it. The reason it took a while to grow was that they didn't have much manufacturing capacity for DVDs and the failure rate was high in the beginning. Blu-ray and HD-DVD fought it ought in the marketplace, but it wasn't a real fight. Sony paid off movie studios to drop the HD-DVD format. It's really more of a repeat of the introduction of SACD and DVD-Audio. Both formats fought it out and like a movie cliche, killed each other at the end of the duel. There wasn't much advantage to consumers either: Music that couldn't be burned to an iPod, somewhat better audio quality, and surround sound mixes that were often completely unnatural.

If there will be another physical media for video, it will probably be a storage medium with no moving parts, holographic or flash memory-based. There might be some use for an Apple Blu-ray drive, but I'm not sure what it would be. 50 GB of slow optical storage doesn't get you very far as a backup medium. Good bye Blu-ray and good riddance.
post #17 of 219
I've come to terms with not getting Blu-ray on my Mac. Personally I really only wanted it for HD content delivery, not for watching movies on my iMac. I'll probably buy an external BR drive just for burning BR discs for HD content. However, for home viewing of movies, BR is still the best way to go. It's a complete myth that you need a huge screen to see the benefit. iTunes crappy 720p is nowhere near a viable option and the selection still sucks. I love my Apple products, but I don't agree with Apple on this one. BR is already much more successful than DVD-Audio/SACD ever was so that wasn't really an accurate comparison.
post #18 of 219
I am of the humble opinion, optical drives are history. Computers will loose them eventually. I would not want a Blu Ray drive in my computer, not even for the 50 GB it holds. I almost never use my optical drive. Only thing is backing up my iTunes library. Apple needs to fix that, so I can backup to another source. The future will bring the end to both CDs for music and DVDs for video. Having a device to hook up with the TV and stereo is one thing, but never would I want a Blu Ray drive on a computer. Someday, we will be using something like the SD cards for everything. Apple has gone state of the art with SD and the mini. Not that I always agree with Steve Jobs, but this time he is totally on the money.
post #19 of 219

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Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
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post #20 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonro View Post

Steve Jobs is correct and Andy Parsons is an idiot. They rushed an incomplete format (Blu-ray) to market and it shows. There is no similarity between the introduction of DVDs and of Blu-ray. DVD video was a unified format and everyone got behind it. The reason it took a while to grow was that they didn't have much manufacturing capacity for DVDs and the failure rate was high in the beginning. Blu-ray and HD-DVD fought it ought in the marketplace, but it wasn't a real fight. Sony paid off movie studios to drop the HD-DVD format. It's really more of a repeat of the introduction of SACD and DVD-Audio. Both formats fought it out and like a movie cliche, killed each other at the end of the duel. There wasn't much advantage to consumers either: Music that couldn't be burned to an iPod, somewhat better audio quality, and surround sound mixes that were often completely unnatural.

If there will be another physical media for video, it will probably be a storage medium with no moving parts, holographic or flash memory-based. There might be some use for an Apple Blu-ray drive, but I'm not sure what it would be. 50 GB of slow optical storage doesn't get you very far as a backup medium. Good bye Blu-ray and good riddance.

Did you buy into HD-DVD? Your rhetoric rings of the bitterness of a former HD-DVD supporter. Or not, whatever. Give me Blu-ray audio/video quality I can download in an hour or less and I'll switch.
post #21 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonro View Post

Steve Jobs is correct and Andy Parsons is an idiot.


Parsons can deny that it is bag of hurt as many times as he wants to.

It doesn't change the fact that BluRay is a bag of hurt.
post #22 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

How well are Blue-Ray discs going in comparison to iTunes movies

Blu-ray releases sales figures; iTunes movie sales are so poor Apple won't release them. Needless to say, iTunes movie sales don't even come close to blu-ray sales, which is what makes Steve's comments all the more absurd. 40% of Avatar's physical media sales were on blu-ray. I didn't hear Apple crowing about how many copies they sold.
post #23 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

Did you buy into HD-DVD? Your rhetoric rings of the bitterness of a former HD-DVD supporter. Or not, whatever.

I still own my HD-DVD player and plenty of movies, and yes that was a rather unpleasant fight.

That said, Blu-ray is not going anywhere soon, in spite of what SJ may say. At the current time, and for the foreseeable future, the infrastructure is not there to support the streaming of BR quality films, and there is a market for the quality offered by BR. Besides, I do not want streaming movies, as I do not want to be at the mercy of my internet provider in determining whether I can watch a movie or not.

In addition, the stats do support the idea that BR is on a similar track as DVD.

I am not sure why one would want BR on a computer for movies, as the benefits on a smallish screen and headphones are minimal. I could certainly see it for storage, but that is a different issue.
post #24 of 219
The only reason Apple doesn't want to support blu-ray is so people will buy their shitty quality movies, music, et. from itunes. Apple is not supporting blu-ray because they want to make money, period! Also who's business is it how people want to use their computers? Seriously, if people want to watch blu-ray movies on their macbook, that makes them an idiot, really? And don't kid yourself into thinking that movies are all that blu-rays are good for either. Blu-rays can do everything a DVD can do better, If DVDs aren't going anywhere than you better believe blu-rays aren't either. It's funny how Apple likes to label themselves has making high end notebooks and yet think they can get away with crap like this. What's really pathetic is they are, thank you fanboys (sarcasm). Also, just because apple made a notebook (Macbook Air) without an optical drive does not mean it's a good idea to get rid of them all together. If they do I guarantee you they will lose not only my business but I'm sure millions of others as well! The idiots supporting this are probably the same people who bought crap like the iPad. While optical drives will be obsolete one day, the day is not now. Emphasis on now, I don't live in the future I live in the present. And in this present time myself and many other people would enjoy having blu-ray support.

I love many of Apples products, etc. but at the same time they are really starting to piss me off!
post #25 of 219
At this point, I don't care if Apple ever releases a Mac with Blu-Ray and Blu-Ray playback software, I just wished that they would publicly state that it will never happen so that companies (like Cyberlink who make PowerDVD/BD) could at least try to jump in and fill the gap for this niche. Instead, they hold back because they're afraid that Apple will suddenly pull an iTunes BD playing edition out of their ass at any moment...
post #26 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post

er... fascinating.

Why aren't you reporting on this though?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...-replace-fault

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...r-supplies.ars

Check AI front page first. It was the first story today.
post #27 of 219
This is what happens when your device manufacturer gets into the content distribution business; they start not supporting other methods of enjoying content and tell you they know best. Steve says we don't need blu-ray because we're all going to watch movies for free on Hulu and Netflix Streaming; apparently he hasn't browsed the HD steaming options on those sites; I challenge him to find six movies on either site he'd actually care to watch, or a single new release.
post #28 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Bluray is good for one thing and one thing only: 1080p MKV rips. No DRM, no BS on cutting down the audio or bit rate or resolution, just h.264 HQ rips.

Long live Thepiratebay.org!

Glad legitimate buyers of bluray movies are subsidising this practice ...

P.S. Sorry for derailing the topic but the post rubbed me the wrong way.
post #29 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonro View Post

Steve Jobs is correct and Andy Parsons is an idiot. They rushed an incomplete format (Blu-ray) to market and it shows. There is no similarity between the introduction of DVDs and of Blu-ray. DVD video was a unified format and everyone got behind it. The reason it took a while to grow was that they didn't have much manufacturing capacity for DVDs and the failure rate was high in the beginning. Blu-ray and HD-DVD fought it ought in the marketplace, but it wasn't a real fight. Sony paid off movie studios to drop the HD-DVD format. It's really more of a repeat of the introduction of SACD and DVD-Audio. Both formats fought it out and like a movie cliche, killed each other at the end of the duel. There wasn't much advantage to consumers either: Music that couldn't be burned to an iPod, somewhat better audio quality, and surround sound mixes that were often completely unnatural.

If there will be another physical media for video, it will probably be a storage medium with no moving parts, holographic or flash memory-based. There might be some use for an Apple Blu-ray drive, but I'm not sure what it would be. 50 GB of slow optical storage doesn't get you very far as a backup medium. Good bye Blu-ray and good riddance.

Well they had to because hd dvd was already released, most of the features hd dvd had blu ray was originally suppose to have when it first came out, but because of hd dvd coming out so soon they were forced to release blu ray incomplete or else they would have lost the format battle.

Which studios would those be? And Toshiba didn't try do the same thing either with attempting to bribe studios to release on hd dvd?

The truth of the matter is that more blu ray movies/discs were being sold then hd dvd movies/discs. That is the primary reason why warner bros went blu ray exclusive.

Blu ray basically won fair and square when you factor in that it was selling more movies then hd dvd equivalents and most of the blu ray players, excluding the ps3, were sold at a profit unlike hd dvd players which were sold at a loss.
post #30 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Blu-ray releases sales figures; iTunes movie sales are so poor Apple won't release them. Needless to say, iTunes movie sales don't even come close to blu-ray sales, which is what makes Steve's comments all the more absurd. 40% of Avatar's physical media sales were on blu-ray. I didn't hear Apple crowing about how many copies they sold.

And, like I've said before, why would I want to buy a crap iTunes copy (of Avatar for example) for $14.99 when I could get the Blu-ray/DVD combo pack for $19.99. More often than not, the Blu-ray version offers a better buy than the iTunes digital copy.
post #31 of 219
Back on topic. Having purchased several movies off of iTunes, I am dismayed by the quality of "HD" movies. (The Playstation Store rents out true HD movies.) I am not alone in saying that Apple has the gaul to charge at a premium for movies that are substandard encodes and without extra features.
post #32 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

And, like I've said before, why would I want to buy a crap iTunes copy (of Avatar for example) for $14.99 when I could get the Blu-ray/DVD combo pack for $19.99. More often than not, the Blu-ray version offers a better buy than the iTunes digital copy.

This.
post #33 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

This is what happens when your device manufacturer gets into the content distribution business; they start not supporting other methods of enjoying content and tell you they know best.

You mean it is time to split Apple up? I think so! SJ claims Apple has three independent profit centers. Time to unbundle the "triple-play" company. The only "i" product I have ever owned, and plan to keep it that way, is the iMac. The rest of this iCrap is getting on my nerves.
post #34 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

And, like I've said before, why would I want to buy a crap iTunes copy (of Avatar for example) for $14.99 when I could get the Blu-ray/DVD combo pack for $19.99. More often than not, the Blu-ray version offers a better buy than the iTunes digital copy.

Exactly. And often times the blu-ray also includes an SD digital copy for your iPhone/iPad. Some people just love to feel like they're living in the future by paying the same price for a version that's a fraction of the quality and only plays on Apple hardware.
post #35 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noliving View Post

Well they had to because hd dvd was already released, most of the features hd dvd had blu ray was originally suppose to have when it first came out, but because of hd dvd coming out so soon they were forced to release blu ray incomplete or else they would have lost the format battle.

Which studios would those be? And Toshiba didn't try do the same thing either with attempting to bribe studios to release on hd dvd?

The truth of the matter is that more blu ray movies/discs were being sold then hd dvd movies/discs. That is the primary reason why warner bros went blu ray exclusive.

Blu ray basically won fair and square when you factor in that it was selling more movies then hd dvd equivalents and most of the blu ray players, excluding the ps3, were sold at a profit unlike hd dvd players which were sold at a loss.

With all due respect, we do not need to dredge up that history. It was nasty and unpleasant, and far worse that what gets posted here. BR won, for whatever reasons, and we should leave it at that.
post #36 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

I still own my HD-DVD player and plenty of movies, and yes that was a rather unpleasant fight.

That said, Blu-ray is not going anywhere soon, in spite of what SJ may say. At the current time, and for the foreseeable future, the infrastructure is not there to support the streaming of BR quality films, and there is a market for the quality offered by BR. Besides, I do not want streaming movies, as I do not want to be at the mercy of my internet provider in determining whether I can watch a movie or not.

In addition, the stats do support the idea that BR is on a similar track as DVD.

Agreed. I'm a big movie buff and have been enjoying 1080p movies at home on both Blu-ray and HD-DVD since late 2006. SJ is just bitter because very few want to buy Apple's HD-Lite movies. You know the selection must stink when the HD movies area of iTunes is featuring "Wanted", "The Proposal", "Zoolander", "Good Luck Chuck" etc...
post #37 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalpel View Post

This.

Did I miss something?
post #38 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

With all due respect, we do not need to dredge up that history. It was nasty and unpleasant, and far worse that what gets posted here. BR won, for whatever reasons, and we should leave it at that.

Yes, it was downright ugly on the BR and HD-DVD forums over at AVS, and wherever else it was debated. But to get back on topic, I'd buy a blu-ray equipped Mac in a second, but I'm not holding my breath. And on that note, good night to all.
post #39 of 219
I only use my optical drive to install new versions of OS X. That's precisely one time on my current Mac. I may never use it again. I'm sure there are many others like me.
post #40 of 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by WPLJ42 View Post

You mean it is time to split Apple up? I think so! SJ claims Apple has three independent profit centers. Time to unbundle the "triple-play" company. The only "i" product I have ever owned, and plan to keep it that way, is the iMac. The rest of this iCrap is getting on my nerves.

As an AAPL shareholder, I see no constructive benefit to splitting up the company. As a matter of fact, the vertical integration (hardware, software, services) would be greatly damaged by dividing up the company into different pieces.

From a software development standpoint, it makes zero sense. iOS and Mac OS X share common code and are deeply intertwined.

Nay, the massive increase in shareholder value is heavily tied to Apple's well-focused business plan. Things like the iPhone and iPad never would have enjoyed the same success if they had been products from other companies.
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