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Growing attention on iPhone 4 signal issues presents risk for Apple - Page 4

post #121 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I'm not sure what part you are doubting. Erosion of confidence is a serious matter for a consumer products company. Despite what you or I may think of CR's testing, no question this is turning into a PR fiasco for Apple. No matter what the fix turns out to be, Apple needs to get on the ball, and they need to do it now, not next month, not next week -- right now. They are already way behind the curve.

Shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #122 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scafe2 View Post

I agree and i wish people would stop promoting the idea of Apple giving away free bumpers as a solution, have you seen the bumpers, they look pants,,.. !
Come on Apple sort this out

They're waiting until 30 days after release day to come out with their "fix" so the early adopters won't be able to return their phones when the fix doesn't solve the problem.
Sorry, I couldn't resist. I do love my iPhone 4 though.
post #123 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

No need to shout. Just call your friends on the phone and tell them. If you can keep a signal long enough.

Check out this thread for more of his insight:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...=966572&page=3
post #124 of 189
Received iphone 4 last Friday. Immediately obvious that hand contact on the forbidden line drained all bars. Figured this is a "bad one". Then started to use the phone in my home office. 3gs was impossible to use, resulting in regular complaints to ATT with good responses, but no improvement in service. The i4 works perfectly--no difficulty making a call; no calls dropped. Only problem now is that the poor quality of the other party's phone is a distraction.
post #125 of 189
I like my iPhone better with the bumper (in black) in place. It feels better in my hand and looks cooler as well. I wish the powers that be would just bite the bullet and give the bumpers out for free to squash the reception issue. Apple is kickin' ass so well in the marketplace that it could only be good PR longterm.
post #126 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders.

Sigh. I don't know what a response like this is supposed to mean, even as humor. This is the first time in many years that Apple has been faced with a major PR issue. So far, as both an Apple fan and stockholder, I have to say I am unimpressed by they way they are handling it. A combination of silence and denial just is not going to cut it. Shades of Toyota.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #127 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Sigh. I don't know what a response like this is supposed to mean, even as humor. This is the first time in many years that Apple has been faced with a major PR issue. So far, as both an Apple fan and stockholder, I have to say I am unimpressed by they way they are handling it. A combination of silence and denial just is not going to cut it. Shades of Toyota.

Is a little funny. It's a quote from Michael Dell from way back. I was actually working at Dell then and at home had my faithful Quadra 605 w/13" display/8Mg/160Gb
post #128 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by barton springs View Post

Is a little funny. It's a quote from Michael Dell from way back. ...

Yeah, we all know what it is, but it's not really funny, even in the current context. The only thing funny about that quote is comparing the companies' respective fortunes since then.
post #129 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by barton springs View Post

Is a little funny. It's a quote from Michael Dell from way back. I was actually working at Dell then and at home had my faithful Quadra 605 w/13" display/8Mg/160Gb

Is anyone unfamiliar with this quote? Sorry, I don't mean to be overly harsh, but the often flippant dismissals of Apple's poor handling of this issue are becoming annoying. A lot of us would like to think that Apple is no longer the same company that Michael Dell thought was ready for dissolving.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #130 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

Maybe you and I don't go the same areas. I live in Houston and can reproduce it every now and then, depending on conditions at that precise location I am at. At my apt, I can reproduce it to go down to no bars. The funny part is when I can do the same exact thing 10 minutes later in the same spot and the signal goes up 1 bar.

The problem is real.

Then what's the problem?
post #131 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

and your point? What difference does it make to have owned and experienced a problem that obviously many people are having.

Because it's not "obviously many people are having". Apparently, 99% of those reports are based on Internet parroting and rumor spreading.
post #132 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

So I guess all the independent tests are all 100% wrong. Prove your case that it's a non-issue for all i4 users. There may be some that it doesn't affect. However that is because they live in a place that has strong signal. We all know the bars are bunch of crap, especially how Apple calculates it. If you live in a stong area, your signal may drop from -63 to -91, which is still in the 5 bar threshold. However if you are at -88 and then drop to -110, you are down to 1 bar. For a lot of people, that's enough to drop the call or get worse voice quality. This is a real issue for a significant number of owners. Anyone who believes otherwise is ignorant.

Just because it doesn't affect a person individually doesn't mean it isn't real.

So ALL the anecdotal evidence from people like me or others here that have NO PROBLEMS at all is BS? Why is it that this "problem" is so easily "reproduced" in the labratory yet for folks like me in Los Angeles, I don't have this issue at all.

If in fact it is an issue with SOME phones or SOME AREAS OF ATT Service area which I CLEARLY think it is, it will be fixed...

The insane, distrustful thing about CON-SUMER REPORTS is that first they said it was a non-issue, then they said they can't recommend it, only to later "release a report saying the iphone is the top smartphone on the market". WTF!!!

post #133 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Mass hysteria without a shadow of doubt. Fuelled by Apples competitors and the headline hungry press.

My advice: If you are having reception issues.. stop holding it like a jerk.


"look ma, the toaster burns mah fingies when I put mah hand in it"


Really? "Like a jerk"?
post #134 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoeinla View Post

So ALL the anecdotal evidence from people like me or others here that have NO PROBLEMS at all is BS? Why is it that this "problem" is so easily "reproduced" in the labratory yet for folks like me in Los Angeles, I don't have this issue at all.

If in fact it is an issue with SOME phones or SOME AREAS OF ATT Service area which I CLEARLY think it is, it will be fixed...

The insane, distrustful thing about CON-SUMER REPORTS is that first they said it was a non-issue, then they said they can't recommend it, only to later "release a report saying the iphone is the top smartphone on the market". WTF!!!


That is really interesting. Did you recently get your phone, or is this one of the early ones?

I ask because I was able to cause serious attenuation in the store with just a fingertip, but here you have photographic evidence that you aren't seeing it even when cupping the phone. How long did you hold it that way before you took the picture?

This sort of thing makes me wonder what really is going on here - I wonder if it really does affect only some phones, or id it may actually have to do with differences in electrical conductivity of skin, etc. Very odd.

Thanks for sharing!
post #135 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Really? "Like a jerk"?

Yea - What company out there stands behind it's product BETTER than Apple? HP? Dell-Hell? I just SOLD LAST YEARS IPHONE FOR MORE THAN I PAID FOR IT -- ONE YEAR AGO.

Apple is a good company with great customer service. In fact always rated highest.

People like you want to make believe they suck, they are the worst for not doing "something" about a product that, now that it's out in the wild, may or may not be performing perfectly.

Apple will make those cry baby's whole again today or tomorrow. I am certain they will respond in due time to the fact that first CON-SUMER Reports said this attenna issue was a NON ONE, then, next they said they can't recommend it, then they said right after the iphone 4 is the best smartphone on the market.

I mean, what the hell is that about?

I could care less that CON-SUMER Reports claims to be not for profit. But, let's ALL FACE IT, they signed up a SHITLOAD of new subs yesterday and today. The planet had forgot who the hell they were till they found GOLD in bashing the iphone. When's the last time you even heard the media quoting CON-SUMER Reports about anything? before yesterday that is.
post #136 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by tt92618 View Post

That is really interesting. Did you recently get your phone, or is this one of the early ones?

I ask because I was able to cause serious attenuation in the store with just a fingertip, but here you have photographic evidence that you aren't seeing it even when cupping the phone. How long did you hold it that way before you took the picture?

This sort of thing makes me wonder what really is going on here - I wonder if it really does affect only some phones, or id it may actually have to do with differences in electrical conductivity of skin, etc. Very odd.

Thanks for sharing!

I pressed and pressed and pressed again HARD to try as HARD as I could to get it to drop the bars, a call, etc. I couldn't do it. Me and a roommate both bought our phones on DAY ONE at The Apple Store in Los Angeles' Grove Shopping Mall. Both of our phones and about 10 other friends who were there with us DON'T HAVE THE ISSUE, at least not here in our area. Man, ATT is more behind this mess than anything, who else? There are still parts of Los Angeles, like here in Hollywood that HAVE NO ATT SERVICE AT ALL, hard to believe but in fact true...

AND... I want to hear from someone that JAILBROKE their iphone 4 and it's STILL doing this signal drop ON ANOTHER NETWORK... Did CON-SUMER Reports try ANOTHER NETWORK? Get real people. ATT Sucks and when things with Apple go south it's almost always related to At&t
post #137 of 189
So we have...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

Don't buy it if you don't like it, or take it back for a full refund if you bought it and found out you don't like it.

Otherwise STFU!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

Can't SOMEONE do a decent, objective job of testing and tell us what the facts are? Because CR sure as hell didn't!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

What, do you work for Microsoft or something? What total BS!

And then we have...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

I suggest you take a couple of deep breaths and calm down.

Must be the pot calling the kettle black.
post #138 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

They're waiting until 30 days after release day to come out with their "fix" so the early adopters won't be able to return their phones when the fix doesn't solve the problem.
Sorry, I couldn't resist. I do love my iPhone 4 though.

Actually, I believe they are waiting on the "software non-fix" until just after earnings report on July 20th. Because the testers will then be able to really lambast ATT and Apple for, respectively: deceiving the owners as to the true bar strength, and that software won't fix the reception problem at all.

Just remember, in the stock market: it is the reaction to the news that counts, not the news itself.

Apple is nothing if not a shrewd PR machine (however, this time they should have immediately cut off debate by fixing the problem, or doing a recall). My guess is that some folks in PR have watched their heads roll out the door, not to mention some in the antenna design skunkworks division.
post #139 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

Here here.

Funny how everyone I know with an iPhone 4 has ZERO issues/problems with it. Must be magic air in Japan here.

That is like to say: "I earn 500 dollar per hour, jut like my friends does, I don't know why you people are complaining about your salary"
post #140 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plagen View Post

Then get out of your mom's basement and use the phone.

Plagen, The best service I get is when I'm in YOUR mom's basement.
post #141 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLBluesFan View Post

Did you even look at how CR tested? No, right? You admitted that earlier when claiming they didn't publish the results. Why are these results bogus (aside from the fact that you don't like them because you're devoted to Apple)? What should have been done differently in the lab? I'm betting you loved CR and their earlier recommendation to buy. Unfortunate for you, huh, that CR decided to do more extensive tests when the reports of reception problems continued. Of course it wasn't objective testing, BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE THE RESULTS.

Spot on. +1.
post #142 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoeinla View Post

When's the last time you even heard the media quoting CON-SUMER Reports about anything? before yesterday that is.


...and I bet thats precisely why they did it. Slagging off Apple is like $1,000,000 of marketing and publicity for free, all at once.
post #143 of 189
i think his point was that if you have iphone 4 and are experiencing the death grip issue and you can not live with the issue, then just return the phone. apple told this to every one since day one. returning it is the best way to show your anger to a bad product made by apple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

and your point? What difference does it make to have owned and experienced a problem that obviously many people are having. We don't know how many but it seems to be a lot, since it's being reported on a reputable source like CR.

I'm so tired of hearing this statement on the blogs, this is a known hardware issue that many people are experiencing. The point post-ers are trying to make is that Apple (at this point) needs to address this issue, and not simply with a band-aid (aka, buy a case). Whether someone personally experience the problem is mute.
post #144 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagman View Post

Actually, I believe they are waiting on the "software non-fix" until just after earnings report on July 20th. Because the testers will then be able to really lambast ATT and Apple for, respectively: deceiving the owners as to the true bar strength, and that software won't fix the reception problem at all.

Just remember, in the stock market: it is the reaction to the news that counts, not the news itself.

Apple is nothing if not a shrewd PR machine (however, this time they should have immediately cut off debate by fixing the problem, or doing a recall). My guess is that some folks in PR have watched their heads roll out the door, not to mention some in the antenna design skunkworks division.

Still don't understand why people are all hyped up about Apple needing to issue a recall. Recall are for products that you can't return, like cars where there's no return policy, or products way pass the return period. This problem is well known enough that most if not all buyers should know about it already, and since its still well within 30 day return period, anybody disatisfied should simply return it. No need for Apple to do anything other than waive the restocking fee if it exist.

Really people, this antenna issue is over hyped to the nth degree. Some phone gets better range and some phone gets worse range, it's as normal as there are cars with different mileage. You don't see people clamoring for recalling a car because it gets worse mileage when loaded to capacity, do you?
post #145 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoeinla View Post

So ALL the anecdotal evidence from people like me or others here that have NO PROBLEMS at all is BS? Why is it that this "problem" is so easily "reproduced" in the labratory yet for folks like me in Los Angeles, I don't have this issue at all.

If in fact it is an issue with SOME phones or SOME AREAS OF ATT Service area which I CLEARLY think it is, it will be fixed...

The insane, distrustful thing about CON-SUMER REPORTS is that first they said it was a non-issue, then they said they can't recommend it, only to later "release a report saying the iphone is the top smartphone on the market". WTF!!!


Here's the thing - look at those pictures. Now, explain how you're going to use a phone with it held in your hand like that. Unless you have a bend in the middle of your humerus, your elbow is bent into the middle of your stomach.

Yes, it is possible to reproduce the problem in weak signal areas on some phones. But in most cases, you have to go out of your way to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scafe2 View Post

I agree and i wish people would stop promoting the idea of Apple giving away free bumpers as a solution, have you seen the bumpers, they look pants,,.. !
Come on Apple sort this out

Sorry, but anyone saying "they look pants" is unlikely to have either the technical or business experience to even understand the issue, much less the solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

Too late. I already did.{bought an iPhone} You know why? Because all the Kool Aid drinking fanbois here said there was no problem with the antenna.

Thanks a lot.

Actually I have darn near everything Apple Inc makes, so I had no reason to think they would screw up the forth incarnation of a hit product.

Then take the phone back. You can get a 100% refund and have your old plan reinstated. Problem solved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doxxic View Post

Exactly.

I know a person who worked for Vodafone 2 yrs ago and spreading bad rumors was his daytime job for 3 months when iPhone 3G came out exclusively on the competing carrier.

As a result, the iPhone 3G's "reception problems" broke the national daily news then.

It was a real hype then and by now everyone has totally forgotten it..

Yes, the more I hear, the more I'm convinced that Verizon, Google, HTC, RIM, and others are behind this.
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post #146 of 189
it is highly unlikely, because they have to keep quiet otherwise it is going to bite them later. apple is just shouldering something for them now. if apple somehow pulls it off and "resolve" it, it will be onerous for verizon/google/htc/rim/nokia to 'fix' the issue on their platforms, which will be disaster for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Yes, the more I hear, the more I'm convinced that Verizon, Google, HTC, RIM, and others are behind this.
post #147 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post

Doesn't a simple coating on the pieces in question fix the problem? They need to fix it and recall the ones that are already out in the wild. Steve's obsession for denouncing any limitations or flaws in Apple's products is growing old...

Coating of any sort will come off easily. They need to put there some kind of plastic band.
post #148 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Here's the thing - look at those pictures. Now, explain how you're going to use a phone with it held in your hand like that. ...

Well, first of all, he was posting to say he didn't lose signal.

Then, to answer your question, on speakerphone. Or, not making a call and just using 3G data. Or both.
post #149 of 189
post #150 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGuessSo View Post

To me, the worst part of this whole story is this:

"Upon investigation, we were stunned to find that the formula we use to calculate how many bars of signal strength to display is totally wrong."

Quote:
Originally Posted by BartBuzz View Post

If that's worst part to you, then you really shouldn't have any complaints.

It's not a complaint. It's an expression of disappointment in what seems to me to be at best a disingenuous excuse for what's happening.

They were "stunned"? With all the amazing software engineering Apple has done in the last decade or more, they were "stunned" to find that a simple arithmetic problem had been "totally wrong" for three years?

I don't buy it, and to me that's the worst part of this whole story. Their credibility has taken a big hit. I hope they hire a good outside crisis management consultant, because their inside advice is causing them more harm than the problem itself.
post #151 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Here's the thing - look at those pictures. Now, explain how you're going to use a phone with it held in your hand like that. Unless you have a bend in the middle of your humerus, your elbow is bent into the middle of your stomach.

Yes, it is possible to reproduce the problem in weak signal areas on some phones. But in most cases, you have to go out of your way to do it.

It's a SMARTPHONE! You know, it's not just used for making phone calls. A lot of people hold the phone like then when ohh, let's say, browsing the internet, checking email, or doing just about anything else on the phone other than using it to make calls.

You hold it in the palm of your left hand and use your left thumb to navigate. When your thumb can't reach everything, you use your right pointer (left handed folks) to enter information.

For many, holding it in that position results in internet download/upload speeds dropping to nearly nothing.
post #152 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGuessSo View Post

It's not a complaint. It's an expression of disappointment in what seems to me to be at best a disingenuous excuse for what's happening.

They were "stunned"? With all the amazing software engineering Apple has done in the last decade or more, they were "stunned" to find that a simple arithmetic problem had been "totally wrong" for three years?

I don't buy it, and to me that's the worst part of this whole story. Their credibility has taken a big hit. I hope they hire a good outside crisis management consultant, because their inside advice is causing them more harm than the problem itself.

The biggest hit to their credibility in that case is that by claiming to be surprised and stunned, they are being openly dishonest. Prior to iPhone OS 2.1, people complained about their iPhones showing low bars when other phones showed high bars. Apple included in the 2.1 update "Improved accuracy of the 3G signal strength display". At the time of the update, people tested and found that all they did was change the display to show 5 bars where this might have previously shown fewer. Examples here and here. Apple support discussions at the time here.

If they are going to put out carefully crafted responses, they could at least do so in a manner that is honest.

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post #153 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, first of all, he was posting to say he didn't lose signal.

Then, to answer your question, on speakerphone. Or, not making a call and just using 3G data. Or both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

It's a SMARTPHONE! You know, it's not just used for making phone calls. A lot of people hold the phone like then when ohh, let's say, browsing the internet, checking email, or doing just about anything else on the phone other than using it to make calls.

You hold it in the palm of your left hand and use your left thumb to navigate. When your thumb can't reach everything, you use your right pointer (left handed folks) to enter information.

For many, holding it in that position results in internet download/upload speeds dropping to nearly nothing.

Even using it to access the Internet, that grip is extremely inconvenient. The way it was held, it's hard to get your finger to the screen. A much more natural hold is to hold the phone farther up on the case.

In any event, even if you really do want to hold it in a grip like your life depends on it, it's trivial to hold it farther up on the case, so people are spending a huge amount of time whining about what is, at worst, a trivial inconvenience.
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post #154 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongDukDong View Post

[IMG]

return the phone.
post #155 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGuessSo View Post

It's not a complaint. It's an expression of disappointment in what seems to me to be at best a disingenuous excuse for what's happening.

They were "stunned"? With all the amazing software engineering Apple has done in the last decade or more, they were "stunned" to find that a simple arithmetic problem had been "totally wrong" for three years?

I don't buy it, and to me that's the worst part of this whole story. Their credibility has taken a big hit. I hope they hire a good outside crisis management consultant, because their inside advice is causing them more harm than the problem itself.

PR spin like this happens all the time from companies everywhere. The rhetoric is aimed at appeasing people who don't really know anything, and don't care about details. If you aren't one of the typical target audience you'll find something in the PR release to pick apart and find fault with. You don't like that they were stunned? Personally I think that is probably not far from the truth... i.e. the non-technical types in the PR department are stunned that they are having this issue with their flagship product. To me it is the "totally wrong" part that is nonsense... it isn't totally wrong, and its arguably more sensible than the newly recommended algorithm from AT&T. I don't much care though as the PR release isn't there to try and explain the technical details to me, it exists to tell the un-savvy masses that they are going to change how it works so that they don't see big drops in the bars when they hold it differently.

PR is PR. You're better off ignoring it.
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post #156 of 189
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post #157 of 189
Mass hysteria over absolutely nothing. People are idiots. Especially those at Consumer Report.

Get over it. Move on.
post #158 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherrod View Post

At home where I normally have 2-3 bar signal my iPhone 4 drops calls 100% of the time when I hold it in what I consider to be a normal fashion in my left hand with the left lower corner pressed against my palm and my thumb on the volume buttons.

How do you hold it so that you can adjust the volume and type on the keypad without touching the left corner?...

I don't believe this.

You're either making a call, or your not. The worst case scenario is putting a large amount of meat in contact with the cell antenna which causes attenuation, so holding it in your hand as described is the only time when you should see the problem. The kicker is though, that you are indeed "holding it wrong" if you are making a call that way.

It's very very *hard* to hold the phone cupping it that way when you are making a call. The easier more natural way is to only grip the top half of the phone lightly and this is what most people do.

I think most people doing the complaining are mixing up "making a call" with "using the phone (for anything)" and mixing up which antenna is doing what at the time. All those joke posts about "holding it wrong" that show pictures from Apple merchandising are completely misleading in that no one in those pictures is actually making a phone call.

It's mostly only when you make a phone call that you might be using the cell antenna to the degree that this issue would matter at all (dropping the call), and when you do that, you don't hold the phone that way (or at least most normal people don't).

I've been reading about this for days, commenting on forums like this (and others) and talking to dozens of my techie friends daily since the phone came out and at the end of the day, Apple's statement on the matter is the only sensible statement out there.

1) All phone signals attenuate when you place a large piece of meat in close proximity to the handset.

2) When you are in a low signal situation, this attenuation can sometimes cause a call drop.

So ...

3) careful how you hold the phone

4) consider getting a case if you don't like number 3 or live in a bad signal area
post #159 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by tt92618 View Post

That is really interesting. Did you recently get your phone, or is this one of the early ones?

I ask because I was able to cause serious attenuation in the store with just a fingertip, but here you have photographic evidence that you aren't seeing it even when cupping the phone. How long did you hold it that way before you took the picture?

This sort of thing makes me wonder what really is going on here - I wonder if it really does affect only some phones, or id it may actually have to do with differences in electrical conductivity of skin, etc. Very odd.

Thanks for sharing!

Its not odd at all. The picture is of every ******* iPhone 4 in the country...those in places with service enough to make a call. None of them have any **** issue at all, other than being in the unfortunate hands of morons, in sparse service areas, of which there are many.
post #160 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Even using it to access the Internet, that grip is extremely inconvenient. The way it was held, it's hard to get your finger to the screen. A much more natural hold is to hold the phone farther up on the case.

If I'm using my iPhone 2-handed (one hand to hold, the other to operate) on speaker and/or accessing the internet, that is exactly the way I hold it, naturally, and I think that's the case with a lot, if not most, people.
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