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Growing attention on iPhone 4 signal issues presents risk for Apple - Page 2

post #41 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:31am
If Apple doesn't issue a convincing fix I think they'll be forced to recall. Oddly, my iP4 doesn't suffer "Death Grip" because I'm lefty. I hold the phone in my right hand and generally talk on speakerphone.

Buttttttt... the other night I held phone to ear and the Proximity sensor failed! Found out it's subject of longest thread on Apple's iP4 forum. A simple Reset fixes proximity sensor issue. I'm not sure fixing the reception issue will be as simple. \
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post #42 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmheim View Post

anyone else think Apple already knew about this long before they released the phone? because I don't remember Apple ever releasing a custom case on launch day

Do you remember Apple ever releasing a phone with a glass front AND back? Some people find conspiracies wherever they look. What a maroon!
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post #43 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by macdanboy View Post

I don't know of anyone who so far has been complaining about loss of signal because they don't clutch the phone with their entire hand. However, you have to wonder why Apple would create the "BUMPER" for the phone. As far as I can remember this is the first time they have created a case or semi-case for the iPhone or iPod Touch. It sorta looks like they thought it could be an issue and this was the quick fix.

No..I think that cases are a tremendous profit opportunity and Apple was tired of letting third parties capture it all. The retail price of cases is absurd, not only for the phone, but also for the iPad. $39 for an iPad case that is basically a small piece of sewn cloth? The manufacturing and labor cost on a bumper is probably well under a dollar.
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post #44 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

If Apple doesn't issue a convincing fix I think they'll be forced to recall.

And do what? Completely redesign the phone so the antenna is inside? Look, the antenna has BENEFITS as designed. That little factoid was never mentioned by Consumer Reports. It apparantly also has DRAWBACKS. That means some people will like it just like it is and other people won't. The solution: don't buy it if you don't like it, or take it back for a full refund if you bought it and found out you don't like it.

Otherwise STFU!
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post #45 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Th risk has already shown up in the price of the stock today: down over 5% on a market-adjusted basis (as I am writing this). The market cap is veering closer and closer to MSFT....

People at Apple had better take this very seriously. I am predicting shareholder lawsuits as well in the next couple of weeks, if Apple's Board does not address this, going over Steve Jobs's head if needed.

For once the drop the stock seems to be a direct result of bad news and not a market trend.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #46 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmheim View Post

anyone else think Apple already knew about this long before they released the phone? because I don't remember Apple ever releasing a custom case on launch day

The iPad, although they may not have been available on launch day, they were certainly announced well in advance.
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post #47 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

Johnny Ive is a maroon for making a cell phone out of glass!!

Yeah, right. Then don't buy one.
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post #48 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

So I guess all the independent tests are all 100% wrong. Prove your case that it's a non-issue for all i4 users. There may be some that it doesn't affect. However that is because they live in a place that has strong signal. We all know the bars are bunch of crap, especially how Apple calculates it. If you live in a stong area, your signal may drop from -63 to -91, which is still in the 5 bar threshold. However if you are at -88 and then drop to -110, you are down to 1 bar. For a lot of people, that's enough to drop the call or get worse voice quality. This is a real issue for a significant number of owners. Anyone who believes otherwise is ignorant.

Just because it doesn't affect a person individually doesn't mean it isn't real.

I think the degree of 'real-ness' of it can be easily measured by the return rate of the device. If it is a significant issue for enough people, enough people will return it.
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post #49 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

And do what? Completely redesign the phone so the antenna is inside? Look, the antenna has BENEFITS as designed. That little factoid was never mentioned by Consumer Reports. It apparantly also has DRAWBACKS. That means some people will like it just like it is and other people won't. The solution: don't buy it if you don't like it, or take it back for a full refund if you bought it and found out you don't like it.

Otherwise STFU!

Youd think people had never bought anything, much less a cellphone, before. There seems to be some sort of mental disconnect that Apple is forcing them to buy an iPhone 4 whether they want to or not.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #50 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

that says that a lot of people don't read tech sites or consumer reports or little blurbs on the today show. they buy the shiny new cool apple thing, and when they, too have reception problems the issue snowballs.

It also says people use the internet or watch TV news. The Apple iPhone reception story has been on all the internet as well as the major news and cable channels. It's hard to believe even the laziest consumer hasn't heard all the hoopla over Apple's iPhone 4.
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post #51 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plagen View Post

That's why there is no point of paying attention to it.

On a short-term (or even medium-term) basis, I agree. I pay very little attention to stock movements on a daily, weekly or even monthly term. On a longer-term basis, I think Apple's fumbling of this issue, if only as a matter of public relations, could hurt their reputation with consumers. Confidence, once lost, is very difficult to get back.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #52 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

So I guess all the independent tests are all 100% wrong. Prove your case that it's a non-issue for all i4 users. There may be some that it doesn't affect. However that is because they live in a place that has strong signal. We all know the bars are bunch of crap, especially how Apple calculates it. If you live in a stong area, your signal may drop from -63 to -91, which is still in the 5 bar threshold. However if you are at -88 and then drop to -110, you are down to 1 bar. For a lot of people, that's enough to drop the call or get worse voice quality. This is a real issue for a significant number of owners. Anyone who believes otherwise is ignorant.

Just because it doesn't affect a person individually doesn't mean it isn't real.

First of all, we don't know what CR tested because they published squat in the way of test results.

Second of all, ANY cell phone will drop a call if it's in a weak signal area. Period. Does this phone drop more calls? There's absolutely no proof of that. Does it hold a call better if you hold it a certain way? There's no proof of that either.

So what are the facts? Can't SOMEONE do a decent, objective job of testing and tell us what the facts are? Because CR sure as hell didn't!
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post #53 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:46am
Giving away those God Aweful Ugly rubber bumpers does NOT fix the problem, it just covers it up, and I feel there has been enough cover up on this defect already.

It is past time for a 100% Total Recall and for Apple and jobs to admit to the world and all their fanibois that the iPhone 4 is a broken product.

There has not been a cover up like this since Watergate.
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post #54 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

On a short-term (or even medium-term) basis, I agree. I pay very little attention to stock movements on a daily, weekly or even monthly term. On a longer-term basis, I think Apple's fumbling of this issue, if only as a matter of public relations, could hurt their reputation with consumers. Confidence, once lost, is very difficult to get back.

I doubt it. First, the "fix" hasn't been released yet. Second, a truly objective test of the pro's and con's of the antenna has yet to be done. CR's test didn't say word one about the improved reception when the phone is held properly. And the bit where they make fun of Apple with the duct-tape fix? Real professional, that.
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post #55 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stkorean View Post

Giving away those God Aweful Ugly rubber bumpers does NOT fix the problem, it just covers it up, and I feel there has been enough cover up on this defect already.

It is past time for a 100% Total Recall and for Apple and jobs to admit to the world and all their fanibois that the iPhone 4 is a broken product.

There has not been a cover up like this since Watergate.

What, do you work for Microsoft or something? What total BS!
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post #56 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

funny how the 40 or so people i know ALL have reception issues. We can ALL replicate the death grip - i can do it standing four feet in front of my microcell and drop to no signal in about two minutes.

So why don't you all just return the phones and shut up moaning?
Problem solved!
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post #57 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

We all know the bars are bunch of crap, especially how Apple calculates it.

The bars aren't crap, its user ignorance of what they mean that is the problem. How Apple was calculating it isn't "wrong" either... 5 bars meant "strong enough signal for a clear call", and that's it. Says nothing about it being strong enough if you held it differently, nor anything at all about cell or network loads.


As for how big an issue this actually is... sadly, it doesn't really matter, if there is a big enough stink about it. Its not clear to me what Apple can/should do about it, either. Giving away bumpers isn't an answer, really. Even admitting blindly that there is a problem isn't clearly the right thing as this opens the door for all sorts of actions and responses. I suspect it will take a bit more time for Apple to collect some statistics and study the situation a bit more so that they can come forward with a clear problem description and a well thought out solution to it. Knee jerk responses (which is pretty much what everyone is advocating) are a bigger source of trouble than just staying quiet. It hasn't even been a month yet since the device hit the market, and thus far its only officially in 1 country.
Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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post #58 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stkorean View Post

There has not been a cover up like this since Watergate.

There has not been such a dumb comment on AI since I can remember.
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post #59 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

I doubt it. First, the "fix" hasn't been released yet. Second, a truly objective test of the pro's and con's of the antenna has yet to be done. CR's test didn't say word one about the improved reception when the phone is held properly. And the bit where they make fun of Apple with the duct-tape fix? Real professional, that.

I'm not sure what part you are doubting. Erosion of confidence is a serious matter for a consumer products company. Despite what you or I may think of CR's testing, no question this is turning into a PR fiasco for Apple. No matter what the fix turns out to be, Apple needs to get on the ball, and they need to do it now, not next month, not next week -- right now. They are already way behind the curve.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #60 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by macdanboy View Post

I don't know of anyone who so far has been complaining about loss of signal because they don't clutch the phone with their entire hand. However, you have to wonder why Apple would create the "BUMPER" for the phone. As far as I can remember this is the first time they have created a case or semi-case for the iPhone or iPod Touch. It sorta looks like they thought it could be an issue and this was the quick fix.

Apple released cases before. I received my iPad case long before I got the iPad. They even sold socks for iPods.

I think that the conspiracy theory is unlikely. Far more likely is "look at those people spending $25 - 100 on a cell phone case. We want some of that!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

What, do you work for Microsoft or something? What total BS!

I'm guessing he works for Google.
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post #61 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

I doubt it. First, the "fix" hasn't been released yet. Second, a truly objective test of the pro's and con's of the antenna has yet to be done. CR's test didn't say word one about the improved reception when the phone is held properly. And the bit where they make fun of Apple with the duct-tape fix? Real professional, that.

It doesn't matter. The fact is that the media have run with this story, it's the sort of thing they love, and Apple hasn't done anything to take control of it. In fact, what they have done so far has just fueled the story. Apple really needs to realize that a bunker mentality is not going to work in this instance.
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post #62 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:55am
Oh stop it already. Is it really that difficult for people to not cover the 1 mm band on the lower left? Really?!? If you don't do that, it has the best reception of ANY phone. Even if you do, it won't drop or slow your reception unless you're in a low reception area to begin with.

So once again, what exactly is the problem? Are you so damn anal that you can see the forest for the trees?
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post #63 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

And do what? Completely redesign the phone so the antenna is inside? Look, the antenna has BENEFITS as designed. That little factoid was never mentioned by Consumer Reports. It apparantly also has DRAWBACKS. That means some people will like it just like it is and other people won't. The solution: don't buy it if you don't like it, or take it back for a full refund if you bought it and found out you don't like it.

Otherwise STFU!

I agree with you. But don't you think Apple should have been more proactive in addressing the "problem"? I'll bet Apple is kicking themselves for not offering free bumpers right after the complaints started. Now they are perceived as ignoring there is a reception issue. Whatever Apple does now won't be enough. Their silence is viewed at worst as an admission of wrongdoing or at best indifference to customer satisfaction.

It's both disappointing and frustrating that such a minor design flaw has caused such mass hysteria when the solution is so simple....either use a bumper or move your finger a mm or two.
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post #64 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plagen View Post

Mass hysteria over a non-issue.

It is now an issue that Apple must address.

As a publicly traded corporation, Apple's number one responsibility is to increase shareholder value. Apple's senior management team must find a way to make that happen.
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post #65 of 189
7/13/10 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A continued focus on antenna issues associated with the iPhone 4, following this week's update from Consumer Reports, could create a risk for Apple, one prominent Wall Street analyst believes. ...

Wow. These analysts just don't get paid enough. Brilliant analysis!

If the problems with the antenna persist, this could be perceived as a ... problem, which will make people think that Apple has ... problems. Hmmm....

Thanks Mr. Analyst! It might have taken me weeks to realise that without you.
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post #66 of 189
7/13/10 at 9:00am
... and in associated news: Deliberately Deceiving Your Customers Is Bad For Business
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #67 of 189
7/13/10 at 9:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by macdanboy View Post

I don't know of anyone who so far has been complaining about loss of signal because they don't clutch the phone with their entire hand. However, you have to wonder why Apple would create the "BUMPER" for the phone. As far as I can remember this is the first time they have created a case or semi-case for the iPhone or iPod Touch. It sorta looks like they thought it could be an issue and this was the quick fix.

At home where I normally have 2-3 bar signal my iPhone 4 drops calls 100% of the time when I hold it in what I consider to be a normal fashion in my left hand with the left lower corner pressed against my palm and my thumb on the volume buttons.

How do you hold it so that you can adjust the volume and type on the keypad without touching the left corner?

Prior to getting the iPhone 4 I had a 3G for a year followed by a 3GS for another year. So I have two years experience using iPhones at home. The 3G and 3GS never dropped a call at home.

On a different topic, my wife has so many problems with dropped calls because of the face touching problem that she is coping by using the phone in speaker (conference) mode. She had iPhones for two years before the iPhone 4 and didn't have this problem.

Apple's handling of this issue makes BP look like a responsible citizen. This is not a "non-issue", and it is ridiculous to tell cell phone customers that they can't hold the phone in their left hands or that they have to use speaker/conference mode to avoid touching their face. If any other cell phone that this problem the company would be forced to have a recall.

If Steve Jobs were running BP he would issue a press statement saying "The spill is a non-issue. All activity in the Gulf causes some shore disturbance. You just need to learn how to walk on the beach to avoid the oil. We have determined that less than 1% of the world's shorelines are affected by the spill, if you don't like the Gulf then vacation elsewhere."
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post #68 of 189
7/13/10 at 9:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonder View Post

So why don't you all just return the phones and shut up moaning?
Problem solved!

Ummm...because I'm a fan of Apple products, having owned a 3G, 3GS and now an Iphone4, I don't want to return it. But on the other hand, I've dropped more calls with my I4 in the last three weeks than I did with my 3GS in the last year. Again, this is my situation, not yours and as can be seen, everyone's experience will be different. Yes, I can simply return it which is about my only option I guess...Having used the I4 now for three weeks, going back to my 3GS will be a let down but at least I can count on it to make calls. I'll line up again for I4 v2 and even the I5 when it ships...Why? Like I said, I'm a fan of Apple products and design...it's just this time around, for me, the I4 isn't working out so well...
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post #69 of 189
7/13/10 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EWTHeckman View Post

iPhone, iPad, iPhone, iOS, iPhone…

That's about all I've been seeing for the past several months.

Isn't an update to the Mac Pro due soon?

Who Knows...
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #70 of 189
7/13/10 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Then buy. Otherwise shut up. (Feel free to vent in the many threads below that amply address the iPhone, not Apple's stock price).

So true. The bottom line is the investors ,you (I assume) and me, are not happy with the way this issue is going stock wise or for the image towards Apple. Granted it's a good time to buy but don't like taking a hit on my future. Not all eggs in this basket, but still eggs and they're fragile. Make like a Champ Apple and get this under control.
Mr. Scott
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Mr. Scott
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post #71 of 189
7/13/10 at 9:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by devin View Post

MEGA FAIL on Apple's part, but really.. it's not that big of a deal...

http://etc.etc

Groan. Someone self-promoting his blog in the middle of a serious discussion to drive up his hits......

Hey, devin, if you have something to contribute to AI's boards, please make the effort to provide a cogent summary here.
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post #72 of 189
7/13/10 at 9:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

On a short-term (or even medium-term) basis, I agree. I pay very little attention to stock movements on a daily, weekly or even monthly term. On a longer-term basis, I think Apple's fumbling of this issue, if only as a matter of public relations, could hurt their reputation with consumers. Confidence, once lost, is very difficult to get back.

Exactly!. Drop in the bucket. Look at Apple stock fluctuations over the last 3 month. Today's glitch doesn't even show up
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post #73 of 189
7/13/10 at 9:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

First of all, we don't know what CR tested because they published squat in the way of test results.

Second of all, ANY cell phone will drop a call if it's in a weak signal area. Period. Does this phone drop more calls? There's absolutely no proof of that. Does it hold a call better if you hold it a certain way? There's no proof of that either.

So what are the facts? Can't SOMEONE do a decent, objective job of testing and tell us what the facts are? Because CR sure as hell didn't!

My god.

1) CR did publish their data on their web site for subscribers, as they do with all their reports. Subscibe or buy the mag when it comes out, better still, visit the library.

2) Multiple parties (including CR, duh) have tested the iPhone 4 against other phones and experienced dropped calls where under the same conditions other phones did not. Not just signal bar drop, dropped calls. And standing in the same spot other phones did not.

3) Did you even look at how CR tested? No, right? You admitted that earlier when claiming the didn't publish the reults. Why are these results bogus (aside from the fact that don't like them becasue your devoted to Apple?) What should have been differently in a lab? I'm betting you loved CR and their earlier recommendation to buy. Unfortunate for you, huh, that CR decided to to more extensive tests when the reports of reception problems continued. Of course it wasn't objective testing, BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE THE RESULTS.
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post #74 of 189
7/13/10 at 9:08am
PR Experts Suggest iPhone 4 Recall 'Inevitable' as Antenna Issue Snowballs
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post #75 of 189
7/13/10 at 9:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

funny how the 40 or so people i know ALL have reception issues. We can ALL replicate the death grip - i can do it standing four feet in front of my microcell and drop to no signal in about two minutes.


Then sir, you have a problem completely different from the antenna issue been talked about. From all the testing conducted, touching the antenna causes between 25-20dbm of signal loss, hardly enough to drop the signal from full strength (-51dbm) to no signal (somewhere around -110).

There's only three explaination to your statement:
1. your microcell is not providing you with full strength signal at 4 feet distance
2. your phone has another issue that's causing it to lose another 50 or so db of signal
3. you aren't telling the whole truth.
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post #76 of 189
7/13/10 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plagen View Post

What's there to prove besides that my phone works everywhere I take it with me and makes calls from places that my 3Gs would start to stutter? People who complain are either dorks trapped in their parents basements or don't have an iphone at all.

It's amazing to me how you're insulting people who are claiming to have problems with the phone. I find it a little immature myself... Like something a "dork in their parent's basement" would do.

As far as the signal issue, I can occasionally recreate the problem, but it hasn't been a real issue though.
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post #77 of 189
7/13/10 at 9:10am
Today's share price drop is a sad commentary on the strength of Apple. The media can so easily start a panic in share selling even though the bottom line of Apple hasn't changed one bit. The iPhone is still in tremendous demand, as is the iPad. There are a lot of factions out there trying to bring down Apple. Apparently, they don't even have to try that hard to send the company reeling. I'm expecting analysts to start downgrading Apple, any day now.
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post #78 of 189
7/13/10 at 9:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

It doesn't matter. The fact is that the media have run with this story, it's the sort of thing they love, and Apple hasn't done anything to take control of it. In fact, what they have done so far has just fueled the story. Apple really needs to realize that a bunker mentality is not going to work in this instance.

WHAT 'bunker mentality"? They've acknowledged a problem, and they've said that a fix is on the way.

The "bunker mentality" is hype being created by those trying to build a mountain out of a mole-hill.

And in the long run, when Apple comes out with a fix, they'll have a TON of free publicity. They'll be back-ordered from now to Xmas!
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post #79 of 189
7/13/10 at 9:11am
I still think there is a chance for a software fix: For example, if the software can detect a signal drop due to the "death grip", then disable the WiFi antenna and re-process the 3G signal.
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post #80 of 189
7/13/10 at 9:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherrod View Post

At home where I normally have 2-3 bar signal my iPhone 4 drops calls 100% of the time when I hold it in what I consider to be a normal fashion in my left hand with the left lower corner pressed against my palm and my thumb on the volume buttons.

How do you hold it so that you can adjust the volume and type on the keypad without touching the left corner?

Prior to getting the iPhone 4 I had a 3G for a year followed by a 3GS for another year. So I have two years experience using iPhones at home. The 3G and 3GS never dropped a call at home.

On a different topic, my wife has so many problems with dropped calls because of the face touching problem that she is coping by using the phone in speaker (conference) mode. She had iPhones for two years before the iPhone 4 and didn't have this problem.

Apple's handling of this issue makes BP look like a responsible citizen. This is not a "non-issue", and it is ridiculous to tell cell phone customers that they can't hold the phone in their left hands or that they have to use speaker/conference mode to avoid touching their face. If any other cell phone that this problem the company would be forced to have a recall.

If Steve Jobs were running BP he would issue a press statement saying "The spill is a non-issue. All activity in the Gulf causes some shore disturbance. You just need to learn how to walk on the beach to avoid the oil. We have determined that less than 1% of the world's shorelines are affected by the spill, if you don't like the Gulf then vacation elsewhere."


Please tell me you went to bed late last night and just didn't get a good night's sleep. Comparing the BP oil spill catastrophe to the iPhone reception problem is maybe the dumbest analogy I've ever heard. But then I haven't heard all your analogies.
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