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Every week Apple doesn't act on iPhone 4 antenna could cost $200M - Page 5

post #161 of 221
7/14/10 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Yes, it's attenuation of the signal when touching the lower left corner. It's a design flaw, because that spot is commonly covered by people when they naturally hold the phone. Which causes the reception issue. That is why I doubt software will fix the issue, but it's possible. But Apple's statement said the software fix was only changing the display bars. Not trying to negate the issue of touching the lower left cornet.

If it were a design flaw then it would affect ALL of the iPhone 4s, It is not affecting all of them, Yes I agree a software fix won't fix this, my theory is a manufacturing defect and the appropriate amount of coating was not applied to the antenna to prevent the attenuation. I also have a theory that body chemistry may play a part in this, a reaction with the coating that is there. I know a few people that cannot wear anything with a battery because their body will kill the battery. It's weird, but explainable.
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post #162 of 221
7/14/10 at 10:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLBluesFan View Post

We can only hope. But those who are claiming that Apple has said they are releasing a fix for the dropped call issue, they are mistaken. They have said no such thing.

If they are working on that "additional fix" aas you suggest, and if they slip it in under the radar and without comment or admission that the problem really ever existed, well, that's a dishonest tact that I wouldn't have expected from Apple.

Well...yeah... mås o menos.

Consider:

-- this is a supercharged atmosphere
-- anything Apple says may have financial, legal, political and regulatory ramifications.
-- If Apple (or anyone) finds a mistake, they don't need to admit every mistake
-- like it or not there are people and organizations that have a vested interest in Apple failing

I suspect that Apple is using the "bars display" admission to buy some time, 2-4 weeks, to do a more thorough examination of other, related, issues-- that have, since, been reported. (There was very little press about dropped calls or the proximity detector when the bars issue was being hyped).

By saying as little as possible: "the bars issue", Apple gives itself room to identify (and possibly resolve) other issues.

On the contrary, if every time an issue were raised, Apple responded with a statement-- this would lead to a never-ending cycle. (Just what some people want).

I suspect that Apple will handle this in a very professional way, if there is a software fix to issues that Apple has not, yet, addressed publicly, e.g. dropped calls and the proximity detector.


They might release a fix and say something like this:

While determining the cause and solution for the improper bars display, we took the opportunity to do a thorough review of the telephony functions of the iPhone 4. We made several improvements to allow the iPhone 4 to use the strongest signal to enhance the user's "phone" experience.



That's typical corporate PR-speak for "we found some other issues and fixed them!".

This pacifies most users and investors, while keeping the politicians, lawyers and regulators at bay!

Nothing will satisfy those with a vested interest in Apple Failing!

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #163 of 221
7/14/10 at 10:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Uhhh, you need to stop making assumptions. Ski1 is the only user I have used on this forum. Just because you don't like my valid posts, is not reason to post wild accusations. You are the troll.

Well, no one expects you will admit to it.
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post #164 of 221
7/14/10 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by roehlstation View Post

If it were a design flaw then it would affect ALL of the iPhone 4s, It is not affecting all of them, Yes I agree a software fix won't fix this, my theory is a manufacturing defect and the appropriate amount of coating was not applied to the antenna to prevent the attenuation. I also have a theory that body chemistry may play a part in this, a reaction with the coating that is there. I know a few people that cannot wear anything with a battery because their body will kill the battery. It's weird, but explainable.

My opinion is that it does affect all iPhone 4s. But it might only affect one of the two frequency bands AT&T uses (850 or 1900). So only people using the affected frequency band, and with a signal less then optimal, will see the issue.
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post #165 of 221
7/14/10 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, no one expects you will admit to it.

Why not admit you are the troll ? And my valid posts rub you the wrong way. Sorry you can't deal with it.
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post #166 of 221
7/14/10 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

My opinion is that it does affect all iPhone 4s. But it might only affect one of the two frequency bands AT&T uses (850 or 1900). So only people using the affected frequency band, and with a single less then optimal, will see the issue.

That's a possibility as well. Are we getting more reports of the issue in certain areas?
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post #167 of 221
7/14/10 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Well...yeah... mås o menos.

Consider:

-- this is a supercharged atmosphere
-- anything Apple says may have financial, legal, political and regulatory ramifications.
-- If Apple (or anyone) finds a mistake, they don't need to admit every mistake
-- like it or not there are people and organizations that have a vested interest in Apple failing

I suspect that Apple is using the "bars display" admission to buy some time, 2-4 weeks, to do a more thorough examination of other, related, issues-- that have, since, been reported. (There was very little press about dropped calls or the proximity detector when the bars issue was being hyped).

By saying as little as possible: "the bars issue", Apple gives itself room to identify (and possibly resolve) other issues.

On the contrary, if every time an issue were raised, Apple responded with a statement-- this would lead to a never-ending cycle. (Just what some people want).

I suspect that Apple will handle this in a very professional way, if there is a software fix to issues that Apple has not, yet, addressed publicly, e.g. dropped calls and the proximity detector.


They might release a fix and say something like this:

While determining the cause and solution for the improper bars display, we took the opportunity to do a thorough review of the telephony functions of the iPhone 4. We made several improvements to allow the iPhone 4 to use the strongest signal to enhance the user's "phone" experience.



That's typical corporate PR-speak for "we found some other issues and fixed them!".

This pacifies most users and investors, while keeping the politicians, lawyers and regulators at bay!

Nothing will satisfy those with a vested interest in Apple Failing!

.

I liked this sane and rational reply
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post #168 of 221
7/14/10 at 10:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by roehlstation View Post

That's a possibility as well. Are we getting more reports of the issue in certain areas?

I think only Apple and AT&T has that data. And some areas use both frequency bands.
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post #169 of 221
7/14/10 at 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Why not admit you are the troll ? And my valid posts rub you the wrong way. Sorry you can't deal with it.

Should I just ignore your posts?
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post #170 of 221
7/14/10 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Should I just ignore your posts?

I don't care what you do. I have no problem debating you with valid points. That's what this forum is all about. But, don't be a troll and make accusations that aren't true about me.
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post #171 of 221
7/14/10 at 11:05am
Bullsh*t is bullsh*t, no matter who says it.
Get a job people, or get back to work.
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post #172 of 221
7/14/10 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

I think only Apple and AT&T has that data. And some areas use both frequency bands.

It'll be interesting to see the real issue, I'm going to stick with my 3GS (I have two of them) and the iOS4 is great on them, you can still love Apple and not have to own the latest stuff from them. I've done that for years, long enough to see missteps here and there, and long enough to know Apple is not ignoring the issue, they will take care of it just as they took care of the Titanium PowerBook G4 battery issues on the first generation...etc. They don't like to get public with these issues until they have a fix ready to implement, that is just how they've always done it.
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post #173 of 221
7/14/10 at 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodar View Post

Field testing is fine, it's a good thing to do. But, any RF Engineer knows that touching an antenna is NEVER a good thing - it introduces parasitical resistance (you can work with that) and a 10-40 pF capacitance (Very Bad). The capacitance issue is what will de-tune your antenna. This is why adding electical tape really has a minimal impact - you need distance between the antenna and your body - just a few millimeters is all it takes.

Apple opted for cosmetics over RF Antenna design. This is an intentional design flaw. A concesssion was made for function vs. pretty. It was a poor decision. You have probably seen the Diagnostics Toolbox in the earlier OS. Why was this removed? They had the software, and they intentionally removed it .... why?

Consider, for the first time ever ..... ever! Apple made an accessory for the iPhone, and what an amazing coincidence that the product doesn't work well without this accessory!! Why, it's almost beyond belief.

Well i find it difficult to argue with your point, coincidence i don't think so , although being a so called apple fanboy i would dearly like to think otherwise,..

I am still holding out , maybe foolishly, but still waiting for Apple to magically sort this out with a software fix,..
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post #174 of 221
7/14/10 at 11:20am
BS....get on amazon.com get a case for 5bucks or return it!!! i'm tired of all this BS...only in America!!!!
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post #175 of 221
7/14/10 at 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

Show us where Apple says this will fix the death grip problem.

Apple never said that software will fix the 'desth grip' problem. Apple has stated that you should hold the phone differently and/or get a case if it bothers you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roehlstation View Post

If it were a design flaw then it would affect ALL of the iPhone 4s,

I really wish people would stop re-stating fallacies. Something doesn't become true if repeated 10 million times (although the Android fanboys here are making a valiant effort).

It is possible to have a design flaw that only affects some people. For example, some of the earlier allegations were that the iphone 'flaw' affects left-handed people more than right handed. Then, that was modified to say that it affects those who hold the phone in their left hand. If that were true, the 'design flaw' would not affect people who held the phone in their right hand, so a 'design flaw' would not necessarily affect everyone.
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post #176 of 221
7/14/10 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

i don't care what you do. I have no problem debating you with valid points. That's what this forum is all about. But, don't be a troll and make accusations that aren't true about me.

...
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post #177 of 221
7/14/10 at 11:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

... It is possible to have a design flaw that only affects some people. For example, some of the earlier allegations were that the iphone 'flaw' affects left-handed people more than right handed. Then, that was modified to say that it affects those who hold the phone in their left hand. If that were true, the 'design flaw' would not affect people who held the phone in their right hand, so a 'design flaw' would not necessarily affect everyone.

So, you're arguing that it is a design flaw?

There seem to be more than a few reports that, at the same location, it will affect one phone, but not another, when people attempt to make it happen in the way that has been described as "always making it happen". There seems to be something going on that doesn't happen with all phones.

The thing that is going on with all phones, is, I think, a non-issue. But there does seem to be something going on that affects only a subset of iP4s, the size of which is unclear.
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post #178 of 221
7/14/10 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

So, you're arguing that it is a design flaw?

There seem to be more than a few reports that, at the same location, it will affect one phone, but not another, when people attempt to make it happen in the way that has been described as "always making it happen". There seems to be something going on that doesn't happen with all phones.

The thing that is going on with all phones, is, I think, a non-issue. But there does seem to be something going on that affects only a subset of iP4s, the size of which is unclear.

I can agree with this. I haven' had anything to compare mine against but the best I can do with mine is to get a bar or two to drop occsaionally when i try. I can't get it to searching no matter how strong a singal I start out with. Yesterday I tried when it was at one bar and the signal actually increased as I was holding it
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post #179 of 221
7/14/10 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

There seem to be more than a few reports that, at the same location, it will affect one phone, but not another, when people attempt to make it happen in the way that has been described as "always making it happen". There seems to be something going on that doesn't happen with all phones.

One possible reason for what you stated is because some areas are serviced by both 850 and 1900 frequency bands. For many various reasons, one of the phones might have been on the 850 band and the other one might have been on the 1900 band at the same location. And my theory is that this issue only affects one of the frequency bands. Thus why only one of the phones was affected.
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post #180 of 221
7/14/10 at 11:49am
Tentatively I am saying the signal attenuation problem is fixed for my iPhone 4. If Apple had maintained Field Test Mode in iOS 4, I'd know better if--or just how well--the situation has improved.

After reading these reports:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=955742
http://www.iphonehacks.com/2010/06/s...on-issues.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/13/iphone4_sim/

I examined how my SIM rests in its holder. It definitely has its electrical contacts overlapping the metal holder's frame. I laid a very thin slice of 3M satin tape along the top edge of the SIM on the contacts side (making sure a significant portion of the contacts was still exposed), reseated the SIM, and inserted it back in the phone.

Result: no more loss of bars when held "wrong". Unfortunately I'm away on business, so I can't test at my desk, where I routinely saw complete loss of signal (from 4-5 bars to "No Service") when held wrong. Where I'm currently at, a reduction in bars from 5 to 3 was previously seen when held wrong for 20 seconds.

Conclusion: variability in how SIMs are cut and seated might cause some phones to exhibit the problem and others not. If the electrical connection between SIM and SIM holder is intermittent, this might also cause some phones to exhibit the problem only some of the time. Finally, this particular issue for this particular phone appears to be a hardware problem, not software.

At least 3 other sites are already talking about it. AI seems a bit slow in picking up on this positive news.

Demand Apple bring back Field Test Mode in the next iOS 4 update.
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post #181 of 221
7/14/10 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyb0731 View Post

I can agree with this. I haven' had anything to compare mine against but the best I can do with mine is to get a bar or two to drop occsaionally when i try. I can't get it to searching no matter how strong a singal I start out with. Yesterday I tried when it was at one bar and the signal actually increased as I was holding it

Try downloading the speedtest app and check to see if your download/upload speeds are affected by touching the spot. On my iPhone 4, the signal bars only drop a bar or two at some locations, but the upload and/or the download speed is greatly affected.
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post #182 of 221
7/14/10 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

So, you're arguing that it is a design flaw?

No. I meant what I said.

The argument that something can't be a design flaw because only some people experience it is bad logic.

That is not the same as saying that it IS a design flaw. Simply saying that you can't tell if it's a design flaw simply based on the number of people who experience it.





On a separate note, the first return data is in:
http://fortunebrainstormtech.files.w...-54-22-am1.png

Out of 25 stores sampled, there were about 11 iPhones returned. So much for the claims that everyone's seeing the problem. Even if each store has only sold 40 phones, that's less than 1% return rate.
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post #183 of 221
7/14/10 at 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Their software fix has nothing to do with fixing the reception issue. It only deals with changing the bars that are displayed.

No... that's just what they TOLD us that they're doing. They may be doing way more than that, but they decided to give us the information that most people would easily understand. When I'm talking about computers to my Mom, I word things way differently than when I'm talking to another techie. Sometimes I even lie to her just because I know that it's all she needs to know and that telling her the truth would just confuse her. All people need to know is that Apple is working on a fix via a software update in a couple of weeks. Once it's out, and the problem still persists (except it's more likely that people who weren't previously experiencing the problem, will now experience the problem because the bars will be more accurate).

I can't tell you if the software update will solve the problem completely or just make it worse, but it's clear that Apple has a huge issue on their hands.

I have a feeling that the iPhone 4 is going to be remembered, but not in a good way. A few years down the road, people will be saying... "Hey, remember the iPhone 4? Oh yeah, truly revolutionary... if only it made phone calls when you held it normally... hehe"

I suggest we just wait to see exactly what the software fix does instead of taking Apple's exact words for it. Maybe they're just changing the bar display, but maybe they're changing a lot more than that... we won't know until it's out.

I hope I made some sense there.
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post #184 of 221
7/14/10 at 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Try downloading the speedtest app and check to see if your download/upload speeds are affected by touching the spot. On my iPhone 4, the signal bars only drop a bar or two at some locations, but the upload and/or the download speed is greatly affected.

Have and they've not. I rotinely get faster speeds than I had with my 3G and 3GS
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post #185 of 221
7/14/10 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Why should Apple be stunned now, when people were publicly harping on this 2 years ago?


Why doesn't enter into it. They said they were stunned. That is good enough for me.

Apple has never let us down. I don't think that they will let us down this time.
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post #186 of 221
7/14/10 at 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

On a separate note, the first return data is in:
http://fortunebrainstormtech.files.w...-54-22-am1.png

Out of 25 stores sampled, there were about 11 iPhones returned. So much for the claims that everyone's seeing the problem. Even if each store has only sold 40 phones, that's less than 1% return rate.

Where is the methodology of the source of this data. That chart means nothing without some background on exactly how they came up with those figures. Also it will be interesting to see how many people are just waiting through the 30-day trial period, hoping Apple will come up with a fix, before finally returning it.
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post #187 of 221
7/14/10 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyb0731 View Post

Have and they've not. I rotinely get faster speeds than I had with my 3G and 3GS

You might be using the frequency band that is not affected. Which is my theory why not all people see the issue.
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post #188 of 221
7/14/10 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

Why doesn't enter into it. They said they were stunned. That is good enough for me.

Apple has never let us down. I don't think that they will let us down this time.

Hah! Apple is so good manipulating the press that I presume Apple said they were "stunned" because that would cause the press and public to associate a change to the bars software with fixing the antenna issue, even though Apple said nothing of the sort.
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post #189 of 221
7/14/10 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Incorrect. There is no restocking fee for 30 days. If they try to charge you a restocking fee, talk to a manager.

.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagman View Post

I was not charged any restocking fee.


I may be wrong but I was specifically told by the ATT rep that I would be charged the restocking fee. I confirmed this by speaking with a customer service rep on the phone, but was put on hold when asked to speak with the manager and was eventually told that I would have to take the matter up with the person I dealt with at the "point of sale".

I didn't bother, however, my last billing cycle showed no charge.. So, either I will be billed next cycle or ATT waived the fee despite telling me the contrary, twice.
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post #190 of 221
7/14/10 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodar View Post

When Toyota screws up, they do a re-call and fix the problem; that's part of the reason we love them. Find a problem, fix the problem. You don't see them ignoring them, or telling their customers that they are idiots who are 'driving them wrong'.

Oh yeah? I don't know where you are looking, but it took an act of Congress to get Toyota to do anything. Ask Steve Wozniak, ask James Sikes, heck even ask the former in house Toyota attorney Demitrios Biller, he has tons of documents that proves Toyota knew of several problems and didn't act on them.

You need to use a better example than Toyota.
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post #191 of 221
7/14/10 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Where is the methodology of the source of this data. That chart means nothing without some background on exactly how they came up with those figures. Also it will be interesting to see how many people are just waiting through the 30-day trial period, hoping Apple will come up with a fix, before finally returning it.

Of course you're going to attack the data - you have nothing else.

I don't know how the data was collected. They said they talked to store management and reported the number of returns.

I suspect that store management has a pretty good idea of the number of phones returned. If you have other evidence that shows massive iPhone returns, feel free to present it.
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post #192 of 221
7/14/10 at 12:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

I may be wrong but I was specifically told by the ATT rep that I would be charged the restocking fee. I confirmed this by speaking with a customer service rep on the phone, but was put on hold when asked to speak with the manager and was eventually told that I would have to take the matter up with the person I dealt with at the "point of sale".

I didn't bother, however, my last billing cycle showed no charge.. So, either I will be billed next cycle or ATT waived the fee despite telling me the contrary, twice.

I wouldn't be intimidated by AT&T if you want to return your iPhone under suspect that it is defective. If you claim it's defective, there is NO WAY they can charge you a restocking fee. What can they restock, a defective phone? At this point, it's safe to say that AT&T can't be sure that their network is having some effect on the signal issues some people are experiencing. While there is no concrete proof, they can't rule it out. Stand firm and don't be intimidated by a phone monkey. If you can go to the store and return it, do it. If they give you trouble make a big stink right there in the store. I have always had better luck in the store than over the phone.
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post #193 of 221
7/14/10 at 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Of course you're going to attack the data - you have nothing else.

I don't know how the data was collected. They said they talked to store management and reported the number of returns.

I suspect that store management has a pretty good idea of the number of phones returned. If you have other evidence that shows massive iPhone returns, feel free to present it.

Bad data in = bad data out. Where is the methodology for this chart ? You are the one presenting data with no facts behind it. If you are going to present data, it's up to you to show some methodology behind it. Your link is just a chart. The chart doesn't even say exactly what it's charting and when this data was polled. Is it even the iPhone 4 ? And look at the source of this data. A financial company that has a buy rating for Apple. Hmmm.
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post #194 of 221
7/14/10 at 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodar View Post

Ok, Noob ... the origional cell phones all had external antennas - yup they did. And those antennas had a RUBBER cover going the length of the antenna in the early phones, later phones used a carbon impregnated core with a plastic surround. The antenna NEVER served as the handle.

Apple opted to use the antenna as a handle, as it's impossible to hold the phone without touching the antenna. Apple could have opted for a poly clear-coat, or better yet, they could have applied an annodization layer to the exterior of the antenna. The annodization could be clear, or any color they could want to create. (Hint, poly and annodization can be an insulator).

However, this does not reduce the capacitive effect we humans introduce to the RF issue. Simply standing near an antenna changes the impedance of the system. Maybe you've noticed your radio works better, or worse if you touch the antenna, or simply tuning it to the station, then walking away changes the radio's ability to grab a channel. Cell phones are no different.

Your radio has a stainless steel telescoping antenna - but guess what? That antenna is specifically designed to NOT be a handle, and to NOT be held during normal use.

Your statement regarding re-tuning the receiver is flawed - I am unaware of a digitally tunable capacitor. Digitally controlled resistors, yup. But there just aren't digitally controlled energy storage media in a microchip format (inductors or capacitors). Thus, you 'tune' your receiver in hardware and use software filters to further re-fine the tuning - but if you detune the antenna system by adding a variable 10-40 pF (human) load - I don't see how Apple can overcome this in firmware.

Apple advertised, and Stevie stated that you can hold the iPhone anyway you want. ANY WAY means any way. Are we clear on that? Perhaps the stupidest statement that Jobs could have made - "You are holding it wrong". Utterly inane. We have photo's of the phone being held 'wrong' by Steve Jobs during his presentation, as well as their televised commercials. A wiser reply would be "We are aware of some issues, and are looking into them". No committment, no admission of fault, no timeline. It's better than calling your customers an idiot.


Here I will point you to Digitally Tuned Capacitor
A digitally tuned capacitor is a type of chip-form variable capacitor patented by Peregrine Semiconductor in the form of DuNE™ technology using UltraCMOS™ process and HaRP™ design innovation.[1]. The DuNE digitally tunable capacitor (DTC) chip contains five capacitors switched by MOSFETs that operate from a serial input bus with a 5-bit code providing 32 possible capacitor values.
The capacitor values can range from 0.5 to 10 pF with typical tuning ratios of 3:1 to 6:1, or 10:1 in some cases. Typical switching speed is less than 5 µs. Capacitor Q's greater than 100 are possible. The frequency range is up to 3 GHz, and power handling is up to 40 dBm. The chip operates with a supply voltage of 2.4 to 3.0 V with current consumption in the 20- to 100-µA range, unlike other . The device comes in a 2- by 2-mm dual flat no-lead (DFN) 8L flip-chip or plastic package.
It is ideal for antenna impedance matching in multi-band GSM/WCDMA cellular handsets and mobile TV recivers that must operate over wide frequency ranges such as the European DVB-H and Japanese ISDB-T mobile TV systems, due to its small size, high Q factor, low voltage operation and current consumption.[2]

Or maybe from the chip supplier for Apple
http://www.skyworksinc.com/downloads...ech_052010.pdf

Like I said you can keep complaining, take the unit back or wait for the engineers but don't assume your the smartest RF guy on the web and know what Apple is doing with their antenna and receiver designs. I won't argue that folks can interrupt the signal path by putting their meaty palm around the antenna gap, but beyond that the rest is guesswork, and a ton of the problems can be fixed with software tuning so the whole recall thing is BS.
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post #195 of 221
7/14/10 at 12:49pm
if Apple and Jobz would just fix it and move on this would all be over but NOOOOOOOOOO they must lie, deceive, stall, insult.:grumbl e:
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post #196 of 221
7/14/10 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Of course you're going to attack the data - you have nothing else.

I don't know how the data was collected. They said they talked to store management and reported the number of returns.

I suspect that store management has a pretty good idea of the number of phones returned. If you have other evidence that shows massive iPhone returns, feel free to present it.

Put yourself in his position. If he presented a chart opposite to yours, you'd say the same exact thing.

So far your arguments have been very VERY weak.
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post #197 of 221
7/14/10 at 1:08pm
iPhone 4 issues can affect Apple's long term sales. It can hurt the brand. The halo effect cuts both ways. If consumers associate Apple with poorly working, defective products and that the company doesn't stand behind its products, it can have a lasting effect.

And I personally think Consumer reports is blatantly biased towards Apple. How they can rate the iPhone 4 better than the leading Android phones is a mystery. Android includes excellent turn by turn navigation built in, voice recognition anywhere you can type, a superior notification system, a better browsing experience because of support for Flash as well as better mechanism for reflowing text when zooming into web pages. Besides the fact that reception is usually better, have a choice of carriers, much higher data speeds are available with 4G on the EVO on Sprint
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post #198 of 221
7/14/10 at 1:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Put yourself in his position. If he presented a chart opposite to yours, you'd say the same exact thing.

So far your arguments have been very VERY weak.

I didn't say that it's the end of the story.

However, let's look at the two sides:

Yours:
The iPhone is a disaster (even though I don't have one). It's a fiasco. The phone doesn't work. No one wants one.

Mine:
There are minor problems, but they're mostly not that big a deal. As evidence, none of the AT&T or Apple stores I've seen have lines of people returning the phones. There are no reports of massive returns. And Fortune is reporting that in their (admittedly limited) survey, the number of returns is insignificant.

Why in the world would you think that your whining is more meaningful than the facts which ARE available?
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post #199 of 221
7/14/10 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I didn't say that it's the end of the story.

However, let's look at the two sides:

Yours:
The iPhone is a disaster (even though I don't have one). It's a fiasco. The phone doesn't work. No one wants one.

Mine:
There are minor problems, but they're mostly not that big a deal. As evidence, none of the AT&T or Apple stores I've seen have lines of people returning the phones. There are no reports of massive returns. And Fortune is reporting that in their (admittedly limited) survey, the number of returns is insignificant.

Why in the world would you think that your whining is more meaningful than the facts which ARE available?

Funny how you portray the 'Yours:" side so wildly extreme to foolishly attempt to prove your point. Why don't you more accurately state the 'yours' side ? I know why, because then it would sound too valid.
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post #200 of 221
7/14/10 at 1:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

Or people start returning them, as they are being advised to do in this forum.

As a stockholder, I am very worried. Everybody knows the AI forum steers public opinion of technology. I fear that...are you ready...wait for it....

The iPhone is DOOMED!

OK. So it's doomed already. 

When can I order my White one?  

Oct 3.2GHz 08 MP, 32GB, 512SSD, 15TB HDs
2.6GHz 6GB 17"HD LED MBP, Sony 52XBR6 HDTV
EyeTV 500, Hybrid 2G, EyeTV 3 HDTV Recorder
64 ATT iPhone 5, 64 ATT iPad 4, 64 Touch3G, 16 Nano6G

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Oct 3.2GHz 08 MP, 32GB, 512SSD, 15TB HDs
2.6GHz 6GB 17"HD LED MBP, Sony 52XBR6 HDTV
EyeTV 500, Hybrid 2G, EyeTV 3 HDTV Recorder
64 ATT iPhone 5, 64 ATT iPad 4, 64 Touch3G, 16 Nano6G

Reply
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