Every week Apple doesn't act on iPhone 4 antenna could cost $200M - Page 2

Well, yes, but you don't have any credibility left. You squandered what little you had long ago.

I share a cube with an Apple 3GS user. His phone was part of the reason that I made the switch from Verizon to AT&T. He can not only reliably make calls from my cube, he can surf the net at 3G speeds. Now, we both have about the same number of bars when the phones are lying on the desk - but when he picks his phone up, he doesn't lose service. I do.

There was nothing scientific about those tests. They are unreliable.

No Apple did when they lied annoyingmouse.

The 'Average User' would not dial the code required to pull it up. We are NOT talking about an App - we are talking about a 'secret' code that a person could type in. Who cares if the average user would never use it!?! The average user will never use the Dianostics Port on your car - shall we rip that out too?

The ONLY reason to remove a Diagnostic utility, is to make that data unavailable. Why would you intentionally hide data on how a phone is performing, unless you had data you did not want shared?

There it is right there. 100% proof that there is no design issue with the iPhone. Now if all the idiots with the conspiracy theories would shut the hell up maybe Apple will be able to figure out if its a production issue (will sort of embarrass the conspiracy nuts to find out this is all because one guy name Son Ge wasn't seating the antenna connectors right) or if its a software/network issue.

Hey axc51 could you try swapping around the sims in those phones and see if the problem ever follows the sim!

Yes, I know it must be annoying when it's pointed out that a) you don't know what you are talking about and b) don't care. Is there anyone who doesn't agree with you that hasn't lied?

Just about all the testing has shown so far that the addition of a case (or in the Consumer Reports' article, a simple piece of tape) has resolved the signal attenuation. AND you say that you have improved reception when you disable 3G. It sounds to me like the problem isn't with the phone itself, but rather AT&T's network.

I actually think the software upgrade will help you. If they do what they already said they'll do, which is tweak the calibration to report more closely to actual signal strength, you'll at least see that you probably have crappier reception at work than you thought. The not-as-advertised product here, if anything, is the 3G signal strength from AT&T. Hopefully future 700 MHz phones will help with this.

Please point out the error, fanboi. Why do you think modern equipment has an insulator around the antenna? Hmmm, please share some of your enlightenment on why it's a 'Good' thing to have an exposed antenna. Surely, if you knew anything of which you speak, you could give one reason. So, please share with the rest of us the benefits of exposing an antenna to human touch.

Feel free to use crayons, and maybe make a little constuction paper too. I'm sure Mommy has some safety scissors for you to use. Noob.

Extra credit. Why did Apple remove the Diagnostics Toolbox from iOS4? What is gained from removing a Diagnostics Utility that provides actual data measurements and parameters? Is there any reason to hide these numbers, other than to hide a design defect?

Somehow, I'll choose to believe Apple. They have never let us down.

There is no fine if you are not satisfied with the iPhone4, Apple will take it back and provide a full refund with no restocking charge. This has been well advertised. So I wonder who among these 2 really has purchased an iPhone??

Given Apple's offer as described, the real test of the scope of the problem [i.e., whether the antenna design is a deal breaker for actual users] will be how many iPhones are actually returned.

I agree there is a certain amount of 'tweaking' that can be done. For example, we have a new TriQuint chipset - are the drivers that were origionally releaseed optimized? Do we need to put the 3G to sleep during a phone call? Re-calibration of the face detect feature is almost a given.

But, the fact that the bar calculation has been used for EVERY generation of iPhone - and now, mysteriously this is the cause of all of the reception problems - that is utter BS. There are concessions made when you write firmware, I wonder if the firmware places greater emphsis on maintaining 3G than it does on voice. As I mentioned, since I disabled 3G the recpetion problem has been greatly improved. My data suggests a ~10-12dBA improvement.

I'm sick and tired of reading this crap. It is time for AI and the rest to move on from this stupid antenna thing.

If the product is a problem for you, take it back, don't buy it, or just shut up about it.

This whinning and stategerizing about what Apple does or doesn't do or it's effect on Apple is Apple's business.

Get a life. Move on. Buy something else and bitch about it's problems.

Rest assured that the software will be fixed long before that.

Have you gotten your $ 600 worth of bitching yet? As far as the antenna design you don't have a clue about Apple's RF design choices. Tell me why did the original cell phones use external antennas. Oh yes that's right to improve reception. And why did handset manufactures go with internal antennas, yes again to improve aesthetics. Apple has provided a design which meets both requirements performance and aesthetics but in the process may have overlooked the huge variation in human behavior. For example some people can't follow simple instructions like don't run red lights or keep your meaty palms off the antenna gap and therefore they believe the company owes them compensation. It has yet to be proven that the problem is actually the antenna design, it could just as likely be a problem in the receiver which occurs when you intentionally detune the antenna.

I bought my phone through AT&T - as the Apple website was broken for much of the release day, due to the high demand. AT&T states that they have a re-stocking fee of 10%, and the next phone is the phone I am stuck with for the remainder of my 2 yr contract. That's what I have been told.

My point is that Apple delivered a product that does not function as promised. I'm demanding that they fix the problem and deliver what they advertized. My standards are consistent - whether it's a car, a jacket, backpack, TV or a home. Apple was free to advertize any product in any manner - they set the rules, they set the standards. I'm telling them to deliver on what they promised. Nothing more, nothing less.

The iPhone is an appliance - not some geek toy.

I'm sure the data is available to a proper technician, like Apple's Geniuses. There is no need for any end user to see Apple's data.

yes, i do have an iphone 4, i was one of the idiots that reserved one and waited for 3hr 50min in line for it in the AZ heat. Fucking hot, 107* that day. Apple took care of us, food, ice cold water and lots of cheer.

The phone has been exceptional. Everywhere I use it.

There probably is a problem, but it isn't any bigger than the iMac 27" screen issues or any of the others through the years. If they recall (doubt it), so be it. I also bought the 'defective' iMac 27" and had zero issues.

Return it. If you pass the 30 days to return and have issues AND are still whining about it...you're the problem, not the device.

Apple has already found the issue, and is working on the software. We know this already.

Then please stop lying. Problem solved.


Exactly. It's a non-issue for the overwhelming majority of people.

That's not to say that there aren't a few truly defective iphones out there. Every device has some percentage that just don't work. If you have one of them, just exchange it.


Incorrect. There is no restocking fee for 30 days. If they try to charge you a restocking fee, talk to a manager.

Or, save Apple's press release stating that there will be no restocking fee and challenge the credit card charge.


The funny thing is that CR says that, even with the 'problem', the iPhone 4 is the best smart phone on the market.


The part you're completely ignoring is that for the overwhelming majority of people, the phone is great - as is. Most of the people who have a problem can get around that problem with a trivial change in how they use it.

Now, you may be so stubborn that you'd cut off your nose to spite your face. Any product has a few dissatisfied customers. The number for the iPhone is insignificant (spend some time at an Apple or AT&T store and see how many returns you see. If you're dissatisfied, just return it and buy something else. They're apparently never going to make you happy.

Of course, that assumes that you even own an iPhone. Given your posting history, it's far more likely that you've never bought one and never would, but you're simply doing what you're being paid by Google to do.

Well that is interesting. Unfortunately you are one of the few that has stated this in all the posts that I have read (granted I do not read all). Does anyone else have a similar experience?

Others have stated all ip4's would do it if in a similar location/situation etc. eg if they go into an apple store, all the ip4's would do it.

Would really like some independant verfication (one point does not a trend make) that its only 'certain' ph4's. I would hope Apple would be very interested in your situation.

It would also be nice to see 3GS and EVO etc in similar 'weak signal' situations (hard to do because of different cell systems). A lot testing could be done. $$ bet that Apple is doing their part. Unfortunately, it does take time to do it thoroughly. Then IF they re-design etc lot more time.

IMO - iphones in general don't work well in weak signal areas (ie why they call it weak signal), but there sure is alot of comments / antedotal test evidence its worse than 3GS- when touch on that seam.

Good advice. Now why not tell it to all of your fellow Apple-haters who are spewing FUD all over the planet over a device they don't even own?

This is a hardware issue that won't be solved with software updates.

It's ok to believe whoever you want to believe, but surely there's a part of you that understands they only mentioned the software update as a way to make people like you feel better...

BTW, Apple lets you down in many ways, but given that you believe them on this issue, it's easy to see why you don't take notice of it.

So someone has to own an iphone4 to be able to comment on Apple's handling of the situation?

Talk about logic fail. That's like saying I have to own a Toyota to be outraged over their vehicles taking off and killing people.

All anyone who doesn't own an iphone4 can do is this: Have an opinion on Apple's behavior, and have an opinion on the severity of the issue based on polls of people who do own ip4s. They can't rationally comment on how bad the issue from a personal experience standpoint, but then again, I haven't seen anyone say something like "If I owned one, I bet the signal would drop in my room." Know what I mean?

So no, you don't need to own an iphone 4 to be able to have an opinion and comment on this matter.

Exactly! Should you have to hold it a certain way? No. But in this case you do (no pun intended). If that's not acceptable to you then times a running out. Return it. If I were dropping calls and data I certainly wouldn't hesitate to do so (especially with the re-stocking fee waived). I wouldn't want to go through the hassle to do it and I would really want the iP4 but if it doesn't work what's the point of having it..... unless it's just to bitch about it.

If we assume the CR tests are correct, and since we know Apple insures that they have a strong signal in the stores, these results would point to one of 2 things:

1. They are not honest reports. For example, I've not been able to repeat this experiment in Apple stores, and, based on the CR and other tests, I ought not be able to since a 20dB signal drop would not cause signal loss in the store.

2. There is an issue, unrelated to the CR reported 20dB signal drop, that doesn't affect all phones, but only some, thus, phones in one store may be susceptible while others are not.

Yeah my wife is frequently annoyed by the proximity sensor problem. Unfortunately, she also has experienced dropped calls when out in the sticks. Hopefully most if not all of this will soon be addressed with a software update.

As to the issue of the antenna short problem... I still don't see why this is an issue? I bought a case for her iP4 the day I bought it and had it on the phone before I left the store. The simple fact of the matter is that there is no way I would consider not having some kind of protection on a $500 device that I carry around with me everywhere. My knee jerk reached is to tell people to just buy a case and problem solved. However, I think since this is indeed a design defect, Apple should provide the bumper cases free of charge (refund me my case price) or offer to apply some kind of coating to that area of the antennas.

And the man in the moon could come and greet earthlings. I really hate this type of story.

No way. That is too sensible!

To me, it's not normal. It may not be the same with every phone, but I know that I've never owned a phone that didn't have some weird method of viewing internal data. For instance, on the phone I own now, if I dial ##768# or something like that, it will tell me a ton of information on the phone.

Seems like something that isn't a big deal, but why wouldn't you want it instead of not want it? It's a minor feature Apple decided the user didn't need.

Ok, Noob ... the origional cell phones all had external antennas - yup they did. And those antennas had a RUBBER cover going the length of the antenna in the early phones, later phones used a carbon impregnated core with a plastic surround. The antenna NEVER served as the handle.

Apple opted to use the antenna as a handle, as it's impossible to hold the phone without touching the antenna. Apple could have opted for a poly clear-coat, or better yet, they could have applied an annodization layer to the exterior of the antenna. The annodization could be clear, or any color they could want to create. (Hint, poly and annodization can be an insulator).

However, this does not reduce the capacitive effect we humans introduce to the RF issue. Simply standing near an antenna changes the impedance of the system. Maybe you've noticed your radio works better, or worse if you touch the antenna, or simply tuning it to the station, then walking away changes the radio's ability to grab a channel. Cell phones are no different.

Your radio has a stainless steel telescoping antenna - but guess what? That antenna is specifically designed to NOT be a handle, and to NOT be held during normal use.

Your statement regarding re-tuning the receiver is flawed - I am unaware of a digitally tunable capacitor. Digitally controlled resistors, yup. But there just aren't digitally controlled energy storage media in a microchip format (inductors or capacitors). Thus, you 'tune' your receiver in hardware and use software filters to further re-fine the tuning - but if you detune the antenna system by adding a variable 10-40 pF (human) load - I don't see how Apple can overcome this in firmware.

Apple advertised, and Stevie stated that you can hold the iPhone anyway you want. ANY WAY means any way. Are we clear on that? Perhaps the stupidest statement that Jobs could have made - "You are holding it wrong". Utterly inane. We have photo's of the phone being held 'wrong' by Steve Jobs during his presentation, as well as their televised commercials. A wiser reply would be "We are aware of some issues, and are looking into them". No committment, no admission of fault, no timeline. It's better than calling your customers an idiot.

good one lol

Apple did not say this will resolve the dropped call issue that some experience when holding the phone "wrong." Please show where they did. It will simply provide a different calculation and display of signal strength. A call does not drop because the signal strength display tells it to.

And if you haven't noticed, Apple is quite a different company then they were a few years ago. And in some respects not in a good way. Unless, of course, you have fanboi blinders on.

Ha! Spot on. Said much the same in different words.

If I knew Apple haters, I WOULD tell them the same thing. However, I am NOT an Apple hater. I admire Apple and think they are doing an amazing job on most everything they do. My next PC will be a Mac.

However, love them or hate them - they screwed the pooch on this one, and need to make things right. I love my Toyotas, I've owned a few - but guess what? When Toyota screws up, they do a re-call and fix the problem; that's part of the reason we love them. Find a problem, fix the problem. You don't see them ignoring them, or telling their customers that they are idiots who are 'driving them wrong'.

A bit of patience is probably required. Wait to see what Apple does... If the past is any indication there will be resolution that is equitable.

Guys - in all honesty, NOBODY here knows the answer! We are all just guessing based on what others have said, personal experiences (good/bad) and personal feelings towards Apple (good/bad). Add money to the equation and it gets even more touchy. I personally will wait until the patch comes out before I pass any judgment.

Please stop this craziness - it's turning into a freaking middle school biatchfest. I'm not saying people aren't having issues - just no need to name call and flame. It's a discussion board, not a I DEMAND, or YOU"RE AND IDIOT board.

Sheesh!

I am in almost the same situation where a return is a catch-22 (no real point in going into details). Thankfully I still have my (jail-broken) 3GS that I am able to use with my new contract.

Shame on Apple. They are worse than BP, ethically speaking.

Emphasis mine!

It's rather convenient to ignore facts when they don't support your assertion.

Below are 2 links for Apple sites: the first is accessories for the iPod / iPhone -- since the iPod has not been updated to the iPhone 4 architecture, it represents accessories that were available for iPhones prior to the iPhone 4.

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/hom...mco=OTY2ODQwNw

Many of the accessories shown are Apple products and support prior generation(s) iPhones. So, your claim "Consider, for the first time ever ..... ever! Apple made an accessory for the iPhone" is patently false.


The second link is for iPhone accessories. As expected, it targets accessories that are for the new iPhone 4, with some targeted at last-years 3GS model (which is the current entry product). Support for prior generation iPhones may be mentioned, incidentally, but is not emphasized (as these products are no-longer available for sale).

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/hom...mco=OTY2ODQyNg

Many accessories, including the new bumper case are Apple products.


I chose to show the iPod accessories because it is not easy to retrieve the pages for the prior generation of iPhones, now that the iPhone 4 has been announced. The iPod accessories show several 3rd-party cases for the iPod.

I can't easily prove, but it is reasonable to assume that the iPhone accessory site, prior to iPhone 4, included similar 3rd-party cases for prior iPhones.

So, you made a false, overly broad statement: "Consider, for the first time ever ..... ever! Apple made an accessory for the iPhone", and seem to imply that, because it is a bumper case, it was offered to mitigate a design defect.

While your conclusion, could, possibly be true-- the "facts" you used to arrive at that conclusion are inconveniently false. But you just go ahead and state them as facts.

What other assertions have you made on this issue that are conveniently tailored to fit your point of view?

.

Digitally tuned capacitors have been used for ages. If I were you I would at least google around before impersonating as an engineer. Maybe it's time for you to go back to school?


But what if some of them are?