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Report: Apple's iPad to copy iPhone in eating up lion's share of profits

post #1 of 43
Thread Starter 
Financial analysts at Goldman Sachs report in graphic detail that Apple has inhaled the bulk of profits of the global mobile phone business with iPhone, and now appears poised to do the same in tablets with the iPad.

Despite selling a small 3% minority of the world's mobile phones, Apple has surpassed the earnings of RIM, Motorola, Nokia, HTC and Sony Ericsson combined, and is estimated to widen its lead in the future, according to Goldman Sachs research cited by the Financial Times (presented below).

The details of Apple's rapid and furious assault on mobile phone competitors were presented as the setting of what Apple is now doing with the iPad, which has wildly succeeded in a market that nobody has been able to do well in before.

Sharing the same App Store as iPhone and iPod touch, iPad offers a strong market for software that attracts consumers while also creating a vibrant market for developers, the report notes. That's something no other smartphone platform has done well, not even Google's Android Market, where there are now tens of thousands of apps but where most apps are freeware, there's no real oversight governing quality, malware or production values, and there's not even a paid software business model outside of a few countries. Even platform advocates note that Android versions of smartphone apps lag behind the features and updates of iPhone titles, and that isn't likely to change as long as the market feels like a hobbyist experiment rather than a real store like iTunes.



The research also highlighted the "instant on" functionality and all day battery life of iPad, features that can make it more attractive to businesses than notebooks. "This is in sharp contrast to existing PCs," Goldman wrote, "which typically take 15-60 seconds to resume from a standby or sleep state."

When the firm asked 90 hedge fund chief technology officers about their plans to replace notebooks with tablets, nearly a third replied that they expected to ditch more than 25% of their notebooks over the next two years and adopt tablets, while more than two thirds reported being sure about plans to transition at least some number of notebooks.

Winners and losers

The firm wrote that Apple appeared to be the primary company benefitting from the interest in tablets, given its strong leadership position. Other companies that were likely to cash in on the vibrant interest in tablets include mobile processor designer ARM and other iPad component vendors, including Samsung, Infineon, Broadcom, and Linear.

The research note also identified a series of companies aversely affected by the boom in tablets currently being eaten up by Apple's iPad. First on the list is Microsoft, "given the impact of lost Windows sales and its lack of a competitive tablet response." Intel and AMD are also cited as losing out as ARM-based mobile devices replace conventional x86 PC-based notebooks and netbooks. Additionally, hard disk drive makers were expected to lose out as tablets like iPad shift toward solid state storage.

Other losers in the tablet market included RAM maker Micron (as tablets require less memory), netbook manufactures like Acer and ASUSTeK (as interest in mini-notebooks rapidly declines), and vendors that sell ebook readers, netbooks, and consumer notebooks, including Barnes & Noble, RadioShack, and Best Buy.
post #2 of 43
The irony is that with all the effort and money Google is putting into Android, no one is making money off it.

The only people who are making money off Android are:

1) A few developers
2) HTC
3) Microsoft (HTC pays them to use Android to avoid patent issues)

Google will probably end up losing more money since Android users were probably going to buy phones which used Google search otherwise anyways (Blackberry, iPhone) and they have encouraged Apple, which sells the most popular mobile smartphone in the world, to start looking outside the Google world. Hence the addition of Bing as an option (won't be too long before Bing or Yahoo becomes the default) and purchase of multiple Map vendors, etc.

Apple, on the other hand, has created a vibrant ecosystem where a lot of developers, and accessory makers are being able to make a good sustainable living.

Finally, I find developers' stances on Android Marketplace vs. the App Store quite interesting. They keep hating on the App Store, while ignoring the fact that its Apple's tight control (although, admittedly, inconsistent, something they need to fix) that allows them to be compensated for their efforts. On Android, OTOH, its very easy for someone to rip off their ideasand createa copycat app. While this also happens on the App Store, its not as prevalent. Worse, however, is the ease and frequency with which Android users pirate apps. The only way you can do this on the iPhone is through jailbreaking, which form a very minor proportion of users.
post #3 of 43
I own an iPad and it is the most awesome thing that I own right now. Unfortunately for AAPL though, the Tablet market won't be close to the smartphone market in the near future if ever. While it's a nice revenue driver for the product, the long-term impact on bottom line for Apple won't be much.

iPad2 16 GB
iPhone 5 32 GB

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iPad2 16 GB
iPhone 5 32 GB

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post #4 of 43
This is hardly surprising. No one else is selling tablets, not in any volume at least.
post #5 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel001 View Post

This is hardly surprising. No one else is selling tablets, not in any volume at least.

Yeah? Remember those things called 'netbooks'?
post #6 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddych View Post

I own an iPad and it is the most awesome thing that I own right now. Unfortunately for AAPL though, the Tablet market won't be close to the smartphone market in the near future if ever. While it's a nice revenue driver for the product, the long-term impact on bottom line for Apple won't be much.

Not today, but five years from now -- God only knows what it would look/feel like and what its functionality will be -- it could be a very different story.

Today's iPad is simply a placeholder for what's to come.
post #7 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Not today, but five years from now -- God only knows what it would look/feel like and what its functionality will be -- it could be a very different story.

Today's iPad is simply a placeholder for what's to come.

Agreed. But for the time being, what a helluva placeholder it is!

I admit to being a Fanatical Moderate. I Disdain the Inane. Vyizderzominymororzizazizdenderizorziz?

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I admit to being a Fanatical Moderate. I Disdain the Inane. Vyizderzominymororzizazizdenderizorziz?

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post #8 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Yeah? Remember those things called 'netbooks'?

Tablets = Netbooks? Since when?
post #9 of 43
Others still don't know what hit them. MS still think they can sell Windows 7 as a tablet OS and Google still deciding what to copy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Yeah? Remember those things called 'netbooks'?

post #10 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel001 View Post

This is hardly surprising. No one else is selling tablets, not in any volume at least.

+1

That said, I actually think the gap is bigger on the tablet side than the phone side. I own a Nexus One. But if I do get a tablet any time soon, it'll be an iPad. The advantage of Apple's app ecosystem is far more apparent on the iPad, imho.

And the restrictions seem to matter much less. I can accept restrictions on what's essentially an entertainment device. I am a lot more picky on restrictions on a device that's supposed to be an essential productivity tool.

I am still eager to see what the competition comes up with and how Apple improves the iPad. I am holding off till next year (till I can see how Android responds), thought I might get the girlfriend an iPad this year.
post #11 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Tablets = Netbooks? Since when?

Since the time the actual numbers will come out, let's say at the end of 2010.
post #12 of 43
Maybe after the iPad drops to a price point more palatable to the masses... say >US 300.00 to start.
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #13 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Tablets = Netbooks? Since when?

Not Even Close...

I truly enjoy my iPad, but few (if any) widget/apps come remotely close to matching the power/flexibility of actual applications running on a full-fledged operating system like Window or Linux.
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #14 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Maybe after the iPad drops to a price point more palatable to the masses... say >US 300.00 to start.

Yeah.. Apple is having difficult time selling them
post #15 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Maybe after the iPad drops to a price point more palatable to the masses... say >US 300.00 to start.

$300 isn't very much these days. They have a plausible price. The price will stay the same while the iPad continues to get more memory, resolution, and features. Don't expect there to be a price drop. Apple has never done that to any significant extent before. They definitely will not do it for a product that hasn't matured yet.

I'd say the price isn't a barrier. Enterprise customers and consumers are buying these like crazy.
post #16 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

$300 isn't very much these days. They have a plausible price. The price will stay the same while the iPad continues to get more memory, resolution, and features. Don't expect there to be a price drop. Apple has never done that to any significant extent before. They definitely will not do it for a product that hasn't matured yet.

I'd say the price isn't a barrier. Enterprise customers and consumers are buying these like crazy.

Nonsense... The iPhone and the iPod Touch's price dropped precipitously (for the same capacities) after the first generation, as will the iPad.

In the 'real world' US 500.00 for a device of such paltry capacity (16gb), and that can't really function as an autonomous computing device (as all netbooks and bargain notebooks can) is a highly questionable investment.
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #17 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Yeah.. Apple is having difficult time selling them

Not to the 'Apple faithful', but hardly to the average consumer who can easily get a real computer/netbook (complete with large hard drive, multiple USB ports, web camera, media card reader, a library of millions of Windows applications, et al) for half-the price of a 16gb iPad.
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #18 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Not to the 'Apple faithful', but hardly to the average consumer who can easily get a real computer/netbook (complete with large hard drive, multiple USB ports, web camera, media card reader, a library of millions of Windows applications, et al) for half-the price of a 16gb iPad.


Can you supply me with data that proves that people are purchasing netbooks at the volume and rate that the iPad seems to be slip-sliding out of the brick and mortar stores and from the e-tailers worldwide (as far as Apple has released the iPad)?

Stats please..

I have yet to find a 7 to 10 day wait, much less 2 weeks for a "real computer/netbook". Maybe it is because there is so much stock available - for some reason.

Just the facts, please.
post #19 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Not to the 'Apple faithful', but hardly to the average consumer who can easily get a real computer/netbook (complete with large hard drive, multiple USB ports, web camera, media card reader, a library of millions of Windows applications, et al) for half-the price of a 16gb iPad.

I see we are exactly on schedule. Stage two already.
post #20 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by MizuInOz View Post

Can you supply me with data that proves that people are purchasing netbooks at the volume and rate that the iPad seems to be slip-sliding out of the brick and mortar stores and from the e-tailers worldwide (as far as Apple has released the iPad)?

Stats please..

I have yet to find a 7 to 10 day wait, much less 2 weeks for a "real computer/netbook". Maybe it is because there is so much stock available - for some reason.

Just the facts, please.

I haven't the desire nor the inclination to provide you with anything as both the omissions as well as the attributes of Apple's iPad have been documented ad nauseum, and given the fact that there is but one manufacturer of Apple iPads as opposed to some 100 netbook manufacturers, it stands to reason that there would always be plenty of them on offer.

If you want specifics... look them up yourself.
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #21 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

That's just a list of specs. iPad does everything better than a netbook.

- Like video conference = NOT

- Like provide built-in media card reading = NOT

- Like muti-tasking = NOT

- Like store 100s of GBs of media/data/etc = NOT

- Like host other devices like iPods etc. = NOT

- Like run any number of millions of applications (as well as widgets/apps) = NOT

Note: I own/enjoy an iPad 64/WiFi/3g, and there are two others in my household, so save the fanatical rhetoric.
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #22 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

I haven't the desire nor the inclination to provide you with anything as both the omissions as well as the attributes of Apple's iPad have been documented ad nauseum, and given the fact that there is but one manufacturer of Apple iPads as opposed to some 100 netbook manufacturers, it stands to reason that there would always be plenty of them on offer.

If you want specifics... look them up yourself.

You make claims and spout generalities but when asked to validate your claims, you do as many cyber-factoiders do - run and hide. Typical from the world of cyber-ville.

I make no specific claims in my comments, otherwise I would support them.

But I do find your logic incongruous.

Apple does not claim to be a replacement for either a "real" computer or notebook. It claims to be a uniquely different device to an MP3 player, mobile phone, computer or netbook. Yet, your argument is based on what the iPad is not. Does that make any logical sense to you?

If it does, please enlighten me.

And, for your information, since we are spouting gadget ownership:
every iPod model ever produced (I am a collector), 3 iMacs in the house, 2 Apple TVs , MacPro with 2 - 30" monitors, 20 TBytes of storage, 3 (yes count them) windows machines that are NOT connected to the net (I use them to drive certain lab equipment), an original iPhone, iPhone 3 and 3GS (iPhone 4 hasn't arrived in Oz yet - to much smoke behind the curtain, I guess. - and the list actually goes on. Mmmm oh yeah, 2 iPads - 64 WiFi and 64 WiFi/3G

I am not a fanboy, I believe in using tools that do the best job for me. Don't really care what other people think or use. That is their choice.

(I could care less if you own 50 iPads, your logic is still flawed) .
post #23 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

- Note: I own/enjoy an iPad 64/WiFi/3g, and there are two others in my household...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MizuInOz View Post

And, for your information, since we are spouting gadget ownership:
every iPod model ever produced (I am a collector), 3 iMacs in the house, 2 Apple TVs , MacPro with 2 - 30" monitors, 20 TBytes of storage, 3 (yes count them) windows machines that are NOT connected to the net (I use them to drive certain lab equipment), an original iPhone, iPhone 3 and 3GS (iPhone 4 hasn't arrived in Oz yet - to much smoke behind the curtain, I guess. - and the list actually goes on. Mmmm oh yeah, 2 iPads - 64 WiFi and 64 WiFi/3G

I am not a fanboy, I believe in using tools that do the best job for me. Don't really care what other people think or use. That is their choice.

maybe the two of you should get rulers out and compare those measurements too!
Seriously, can we have a vacation from writing the spec's of our penises, I mean, computers and hardware. Nobody cares how much stuff you own. and to call it out by name and specification is just plain smug!
post #24 of 43
You told me that you like her
But she doesn't wanna know
You tried so much to take her
But there's no way to go
I know that kind of feeling
Knocking on someone's door
I know the endless crying
When you don't know what you're living for

Write a letter (what's the matter)
You'll feel better (write a letter)
You'll feel better when it's done

There is one way to show
What you feel for the girl
Write her a lovely letter
Tell her what you're looking for

Don't think it's old fashion
To take one's heart (when it's true)
You gotta take it as a man
When you can't win her in this game

Write a letter (what's the matter)
You'll feel better (write a letter)
You'll feel better when it's done

There are losers and winners
Just like you and me
Losers and winners - just like you and me

You should give me the letter
I'll use it for my own (ha ha)
Maybe she wants to take me
Before she stays alone

Could be my destination
To pick up broken heart
Why don't you take it easy
And screw the girl who's next to you

Write a letter (what's the matter)
You'll feel better (write a letter)
You'll feel better when it's done

There are losers and winners
Just like you and me
Losers and winners
Just like you and me

Losers and winners
post #25 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

The irony is that with all the effort and money Google is putting into Android, no one is making money off it.

The only people who are making money off Android are:

1) A few developers
2) HTC
3) Microsoft (HTC pays them to use Android to avoid patent issues)

Google will probably end up losing more money since Android users were probably going to buy phones which used Google search otherwise anyways (Blackberry, iPhone) and they have encouraged Apple, which sells the most popular mobile smartphone in the world, to start looking outside the Google world. Hence the addition of Bing as an option (won't be too long before Bing or Yahoo becomes the default) and purchase of multiple Map vendors, etc.

Apple, on the other hand, has created a vibrant ecosystem where a lot of developers, and accessory makers are being able to make a good sustainable living.

Finally, I find developers' stances on Android Marketplace vs. the App Store quite interesting. They keep hating on the App Store, while ignoring the fact that its Apple's tight control (although, admittedly, inconsistent, something they need to fix) that allows them to be compensated for their efforts. On Android, OTOH, its very easy for someone to rip off their ideasand createa copycat app. While this also happens on the App Store, its not as prevalent. Worse, however, is the ease and frequency with which Android users pirate apps. The only way you can do this on the iPhone is through jailbreaking, which form a very minor proportion of users.


I suspect the carriers make a healthy profit as well.
post #26 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Nonsense... The iPhone and the iPod Touch's price dropped precipitously (for the same capacities) after the first generation, as will the iPad.

In the 'real world' US 500.00 for a device of such paltry capacity (16gb), and that can't really function as an autonomous computing device (as all netbooks and bargain notebooks can) is a highly questionable investment.

For the iPhone at least, any price drops were probably due strictly to carrier subisidizing. We as consumers may pay less for the current iPhone than the first generation, but that doesn't mean Apple gets paid any less.
post #27 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

That's just a list of specs. iPad does everything better than a netbook.

No, it doesn't. For starters, even with the smaller keyboard on netbooks, typing is going to be much easier than on the iPad's virtual keyboard. This is somewhat mitigated by wireless keyboards, etc., but adding one makes it much less portable. Now your'e carring two devices.

And let's not get into Adobe's Flash support. If Flash is important to you, netbooks can display it. The iPad can't/won't.

That said, I own an iPad, not a netbook.
post #28 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

And yet they claim that the iPhone has Doomed Apple!

That's most likely why the concerted effort to have the general populous believe iPhone 4 is a failure. Every person with a vested interest in another make is blogging about the reception issues even if they never touched an iPhone. They are in desperation mode and these numbers show why.
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
Google Motto "You're not the customer. You're the product."
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From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
Google Motto "You're not the customer. You're the product."
Reply
post #29 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by MizuInOz View Post

You make claims and spout generalities but when asked to validate your claims, you do as many cyber-factoiders do - run and hide. Typical from the world of cyber-ville.

I make no specific claims in my comments, otherwise I would support them.

But I do find your logic incongruous.

Apple does not claim to be a replacement for either a "real" computer or notebook. It claims to be a uniquely different device to an MP3 player, mobile phone, computer or netbook. Yet, your argument is based on what the iPad is not. Does that make any logical sense to you?

If it does, please enlighten me.

And, for your information, since we are spouting gadget ownership:
every iPod model ever produced (I am a collector), 3 iMacs in the house, 2 Apple TVs , MacPro with 2 - 30" monitors, 20 TBytes of storage, 3 (yes count them) windows machines that are NOT connected to the net (I use them to drive certain lab equipment), an original iPhone, iPhone 3 and 3GS (iPhone 4 hasn't arrived in Oz yet - to much smoke behind the curtain, I guess. - and the list actually goes on. Mmmm oh yeah, 2 iPads - 64 WiFi and 64 WiFi/3G

I am not a fanboy, I believe in using tools that do the best job for me. Don't really care what other people think or use. That is their choice.

(I could care less if you own 50 iPads, your logic is still flawed) .


I think what's important is not how Apple positions their product - iPad being a completely different device than any other, but how we as users perceive their products. To many, yes, the iPad competes directly with netbooks, etc.
post #30 of 43
iphone 4 problem still not solved: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK37dysPPzU
post #31 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddych View Post

I own an iPad and it is the most awesome thing that I own right now. Unfortunately for AAPL though, the Tablet market won't be close to the smartphone market in the near future if ever. While it's a nice revenue driver for the product, the long-term impact on bottom line for Apple won't be much.

That's a non sequitor. Apple have about 3% of the phone market and about 100% of the tablet market. At current price points, Apple can sell about 1M Macs per month and about 2M iPads. I'm guessing that in the current fiscal quarter, the iPad will generate more than 10% of Apple's profits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Maybe after the iPad drops to a price point more palatable to the masses... say >US 300.00 to start.

Hmmm. Apple can sell 2M iPads per month at $500 and make a profit of about $125 each. Alternatively, Apple can sell perhaps 3M per month at $300 and make a loss of about $75 each.
Mac user since August 1983.
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Mac user since August 1983.
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post #32 of 43
There's one massive flaw with the losers sections of this article in that it suggests you will buy an iPad over a netbook. A lot of people buy netbooks because there cheap and that's all they can afford. To get the iPad they still need to buy the Netbook as well, as an iPad on it's owns useless. You still need a computer to go with it to put anything on it! If anything it will boost Netbooks as once you've spent £400 on an iPad your not going to spend another £1000 on a Mab Book, just go for the £200 Netbook.

I would love an iPad but it does come down to that issue that as much as I want it to be a computer it's still not a computer. It's a restricted device that I will still need to attach to a computer.
post #33 of 43
The profit on a HP netbook is about $15 per unit.
The profit on an iPad is about $200 per unit.

In terms of earnings, consumers have to buy more than ten netbooks to match a single iPad purchase.

C.
post #34 of 43
An iPad with the right applications does not need a computer for anything other than making backups with iTunes.
You do back up your digital devices, don't you?

Apps can download data directly from the Internet and sync the results back if needed. If you read the news, you will see that Apple is readying two more smaller iPads which will obviously be cheaper too. I think they will drop these as soon as a few iPad wannabes are released by Microsoft or Android vendors. That should kill these competitors before they even have a chance to recoup their investment.

The premise of the main article I think is exceptionally accurate. I would not bet against Apple at this time.
post #35 of 43
you are so right on here.. great analysis..!
post #36 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

The profit on a HP netbook is about $15 per unit.
The profit on an iPad is about $200 per unit.

And you pulled these numbers from where? That's what I thought, your ass. I could just as easily say the iPad has a $100 or $150 profit margin, vs. HP's is $50. But that would be too logical for Apple to only have a reasonable 2x or 3x the profit of HP.
post #37 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

There's one massive flaw with the losers sections of this article in that it suggests you will buy an iPad over a netbook. A lot of people buy netbooks because there cheap and that's all they can afford. To get the iPad they still need to buy the Netbook as well, as an iPad on it's owns useless. You still need a computer to go with it to put anything on it! If anything it will boost Netbooks as once you've spent £400 on an iPad your not going to spend another £1000 on a Mab Book, just go for the £200 Netbook.

I would love an iPad but it does come down to that issue that as much as I want it to be a computer it's still not a computer. It's a restricted device that I will still need to attach to a computer.

Not so. I rarely connect my iPad to my Mac. Once a week, at most, and I use it every day.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #38 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

- Like video conference = NOT

- Like provide built-in media card reading = NOT

- Like muti-tasking = NOT

- Like store 100s of GBs of media/data/etc = NOT

- Like host other devices like iPods etc. = NOT

- Like run any number of millions of applications (as well as widgets/apps) = NOT

Note: I own/enjoy an iPad 64/WiFi/3g, and there are two others in my household, so save the fanatical rhetoric.

Yes, netbooks do those things. And for the most part does them poorly or slowly. Netbook sales have fallen off a cliff this year, that is a multiply reported fact in business news. Why if it's so good a platform?

My unscientific guess is that those very cheap netbooks were exactly that. Cheap. In the fully pejorative sense of the word. Friends and family got tired of them because they ended up being wastes of money for the vast majority of consumers. I have tried them and found the form factor useless for anything resembling work, the rest my phone can do. I haven't bought an iPad yet, but most of my reservations should be addressed when iOS 4 ships for iPad. Zero chance that there is an OS or any kind of software update that will fix my reservations with netbooks.
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post #39 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

And you pulled these numbers from where? That's what I thought, your ass. I could just as easily say the iPad has a $100 or $150 profit margin, vs. HP's is $50. But that would be too logical for Apple to only have a reasonable 2x or 3x the profit of HP.

The numbers are published by analysts and available on the open internet for anyone with a whit of ability to pick keywords. And while investment analysts absolutely suck at projecting business trends, they hire really good engineers to rip products apart and price the components. You can take it to the bank those estimates are within 10 percent of actual.
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post #40 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

And you pulled these numbers from where? That's what I thought, your ass. I could just as easily say the iPad has a $100 or $150 profit margin, vs. HP's is $50. But that would be too logical for Apple to only have a reasonable 2x or 3x the profit of HP.

Nope, he is from Britian so he would have pulled them from his arse
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