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Iranian Scientist Tortured and Kidnapped by the US - Page 2

post #41 of 47
7/20/10 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I'm surprised you are still playing that old card.... It's obvious you have to resort to it as there's nothing else in the locker but I think you should at least add some more ammo. It can be overplayed and it makes you look like you can't come up with any other answer and sound like a parrot.

Timing and subtlety are everything!

Your answer, was not one. Your post had a few questionable portions that I sought to clarify. You evaded and point at me and say, oh look, too stupid to understand. You get called on it and now want to pretend this is some sort of ploy on my part. Transparent, and weak on your part.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #42 of 47
7/20/10 at 2:21pm
Thread Starter 
It's a strange phenomena but of all the threads about torture there have ever been here - and there has been a lot of torture to discuss - the actual torture never seems to bother anyone. Maybe that's because of the Right-wing infestation I suppose.

But it is chilling... tacit acceptance in the main and even glee in some extreme cases.

But generally just ignored....It's almost like Primo Levi observed 'once you have de-humanized a race or people then nothing that happens to any individual member of that group warrants consideration'.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #43 of 47
7/20/10 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

It's a strange phenomena but of all the threads about torture there have ever been here - and there has been a lot of torture to discuss - the actual torture never seems to bother anyone.

I think you might be making an assumption here. I, for one, abhor it.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #44 of 47
7/20/10 at 3:10pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I think you might be making an assumption here. I, for one, abhor it.

Ok..I retract it. It was a rather foolish statement.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #45 of 47
7/20/10 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Ok..I retract it. It was a rather foolish statement.

Don't get me wrong. I know there are people that seem to be okay with it. This troubles me greatly.

I also agree with you that the first steps, always, are to essentially dehumanize the people this kind of thing is done to. That is nearly the exact approach taken not just by the Nazis in the past but just about every other genocide since that time. The Nazis weren't killing "people" they were killing Jews...which they had dehumanized through their propaganda machinery. Same basic story in Cambodia and Rwanda. We ought to see it as a major red flag when we start hearing terminology and seeing attitudes that basically dehumanize others. This can only lead to bad things.

The scary part is, in the US, I see this happening with Iraqis, Iranians, Pakistanis, Afghans, Mexicans, Chinese, etc. All to one degree or another.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #46 of 47
7/20/10 at 4:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

It's a strange phenomena but of all the threads about torture there have ever been here - and there has been a lot of torture to discuss - the actual torture never seems to bother anyone. Maybe that's because of the Right-wing infestation I suppose.

But it is chilling... tacit acceptance in the main and even glee in some extreme cases.

But generally just ignored....It's almost like Primo Levi observed 'once you have de-humanized a race or people then nothing that happens to any individual member of that group warrants consideration'.

While I am happy to see you revert back to the original topic you continue to obfuscate and make assertions that are not backed by facts.

Torture is not ok, and in this case, does not have a great likelihood of actually having happened. If it did that is unacceptable.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #47 of 47
7/21/10 at 6:28am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Don't get me wrong. I know there are people that seem to be okay with it. This troubles me greatly.

I also agree with you that the first steps, always, are to essentially dehumanize the people this kind of thing is done to. That is nearly the exact approach taken not just by the Nazis in the past but just about every other genocide since that time. The Nazis weren't killing "people" they were killing Jews...which they had dehumanized through their propaganda machinery. Same basic story in Cambodia and Rwanda. We ought to see it as a major red flag when we start hearing terminology and seeing attitudes that basically dehumanize others. This can only lead to bad things.

The scary part is, in the US, I see this happening with Iraqis, Iranians, Pakistanis, Afghans, Mexicans, Chinese, etc. All to one degree or another.

Hopefully there are enough sane people in the US to outweigh the obvious lunatics.

It's possible that the new-atheist movement might act as a break on these stereotypes you list as the hate and dehumanizing does seem to be linked strongly to US conservative Xianity.

In this the atheist movement might play an important role and should be supported (well, except Sam Harris - he stands for MORE right-wing killing and torture) up to a point.

We are indeed at a very worrying point.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
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