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Apple engineer warned Steve Jobs about iPhone 4 reception last year - Page 3

post #81 of 124
7/15/10 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

Man, you never know how many trolls are in the place until someone lets off a stinkbomb; then they come crawling out of the woodwork like an infestation of cockroaches!

It's hard to admit it, but Apple ain't perfect.

DaHarder just got banned. Let's crack open the champagne.

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DaHarder just got banned. Let's crack open the champagne.

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post #82 of 124
7/15/10 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by acslater017 View Post

Wow. Mental math...11,000 posts....9 years....what is that, 3 or 4 posts per day?! I guess if anyone is a judge on a loss of objectivity...

But what do I know, I only have 113 posts.

Actually, you are right, what do you know about the posters here?

SDW has been here a long time (longer than the current join date would suggest) and is an Apple fan, but you could never call him an Apple apologist. He is very opinionated and I wouldn't necessarily call him objective about a lot of things, but I've never found his views to be coloured by his fanhood of Apple. He'll question Apple whenever he sees fit.

Besides, most of thousand and thousands (and thousands) of posts have been in PO and have nothing to do with Apple at all.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #83 of 124
7/15/10 at 10:19am
If you were an Apple employee who had probably violated an NDA to contact the press as a whistleblower, would you want to be outed? The source is not anonymous... as the Bloomberg story clearly states, the source asked not to be identified. You can bet your asses that Peter Burrows and Connie Guglielmo confirmed the identity of the person making the allegations and confirmed that this person was in a position to know such information before they would go to press.

And apologies to the fanbois/apologists, but when every mainstream media outlet is reporting this stuff as truth, and even Chuck Schumer (D-NY) is issuing statements calling for Apple to provide a substantive fix to the problem, this IS a legitimate issue.
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post #84 of 124
7/15/10 at 10:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stst0001 View Post

Obviously you see no relevance then to the Thread about the Antenna Engineer then?
Where is that "substantiated".100%? Yet it is surely true. Granted the circumstance somewhat gray as is life.

The previous engineer did what he could to get the camera to work given the Industrial Design was not to change - no matter what. The new engineer having the benefit of the previous work and the skills easily discerned the problem. Yet was to green to know that he was not giving them the answer they wanted.

Now lets look at the "receive signal strength" bull. We were "shocked" to find our algorithm was totally wrong. Really - gee - really. But doesn't the Transceiver which is an OEM component report the RSSI measurements? I think the Transceiver is from Infineon. But Apple said "their" algorithm for calculating the signal strength was wrong not anything with the measurement reports themselves. Now lets see 3GPP standards like TS27.007 and others...hmm...received signal strength indication values are documented. So what is this magical algorithm? a Range checker?

yes, believe me, I acknowledge there are problems. That doesn't mean any of the extraneous assertions you have made are true. Anymore than me saying I know for a fact that everything you posted is bullshit. Or how about I say it is a fact that Jobs fired the entire RF engineering team at Ives request, after Ives took offense to Caballero criticizing his design. Titillating, perhaps, but far from factual or supported.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stst0001 View Post

Oh well I will let developers and highly skilled engineers like yourself carry on this emotional thread. Last post. Least I be hunted down and persecuted.

not an engineer. I am a developer. But, I work in an engineering environment and have many acquaintances that are engineers at tech firms. Means nothing. But then, neither did you claims that only people in such an environment would understand your position.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #85 of 124
7/15/10 at 10:30am
Ok, so Steve shows the original iPhone 4 held with poor reception

Then takes the same iPhone 4, up-dates the software, and shows plenty of reception or

Steve eats crow, apologizes to the masses, and provide FREE cover or

Says they are working on a fix, and should have something within the next 2 weeks. For the next 2 weeks them both basters over-seas work around the clock, making NEW phone to gave everyone
or

They work around the clock, making a whole new antenna system and Apple replaces the current one, with the new one, and the iPhone now gets the BEST reception, of ANY cell phone on the market Apple is the hero?

Tomorrow will be an interesting day if the "Times & Life of Steve Jobs & Apple".
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post #86 of 124
7/15/10 at 10:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince_JT View Post

Ha.. you said it pal.

I want these reports to come to light everyday until iPhone 5 comes around just to give these Steve Jobs suck offs a heart attack.

lol you are probably one of those one hit wonders who creates an account, use it to troll for a few days and create another one.

But anyways....

There is a reason why none of those reviewers ever notice a problem with the antenna before launch. Because if you use it normally, under most situation no one will notice a thing.

also you can't discredit an anonymous source, anonymous doesn't have any credit to begin with.
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post #87 of 124
7/15/10 at 10:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

....naive worship of a corporation's products?

It's not that Apple is perfect. They are surely not. It's just all the other manufacturers are so god awful!

I love Apples SW and hardware and try not to buy any tech stuff unless Apple makes it.

Reluctantly, bought a flat screen TV and detest it's clunky interface. And the same goes with my cable box...what a piece of crap.

Won't buy a GPS unit. I will make do with the iPhone, won't buy another point and shoot camera...will make do with the iPhone 4's new camera with flash. No video camera, use iPhone. And so on.

Best.
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post #88 of 124
7/15/10 at 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

It's not that Apple is perfect. They are surely not. It's just all the other manufacturers are so god awful!

I love Apples SW and hardware and try not to buy any tech stuff unless Apple makes it.

Reluctantly, bought a flat screen TV and detest it's clunky interface. And the same goes with my cable box...what a piece of crap.

Won't buy a GPS unit. I will make do with the iPhone, won't buy another point and shoot camera...will make do with the iPhone 4's new camera with flash. No video camera, use iPhone. And so on.

Best.

Seriously? Apple is the only tech company that makes a good product?
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post #89 of 124
7/15/10 at 10:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihxo View Post

lol you are probably one of those one hit wonders who creates an account, use it to troll for a few days and create another one.

But anyways....

There is a reason why none of those reviewers ever notice a problem with the antenna before launch. Because if you use it normally, under most situation no one will notice a thing.

also you can't discredit an anonymous source, anonymous doesn't have any credit to begin with.

Are you saying that anonymous sources in general have no credibility?
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post #90 of 124
7/15/10 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manictosh View Post

Are you saying that anonymous sources in general have no credibility?

anonymous source with nothing physical (like a letter or something) to prove it's existence is simply anonymous... aka unknown.
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post #91 of 124
7/15/10 at 10:52am
This news doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
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post #92 of 124
7/15/10 at 10:53am
Actually, I think the reason this was missed was due to the secrecy Apple employees to hide products. Most likely everyone doing testing on and off the campus had it hidden in a case, therefore, never experience the problem.

I am very suspicious of this so call inside source who claim Jobs was warned and told about the issue. I think all of you can cite many examples of a product not being release of feature which we know were in early revisions did not materialize in the final release and many times it was because what we were all told was quality issues or concerns or it just did not work the way Steve wanted it to work.

Do you real think Steve would have said screw them all that do not know what they are talking about I shipping it anyway. If they truly knew the extent of this problem and it was too late to delay or redesign, don't you think apple would have included the $0.25 bumps, trust me the material cost is not much more then $0.25 there.
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post #93 of 124
7/15/10 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by winst View Post

I'm not surprised. As an engineer, I always voice my "concerns" to cover my ass. Anything could have happened after the initial "concerns": different material, different orientation, different design, different software.

Also a "visual feedback" sometimes causes more confusion than any actual problems. Will people still think there is a signal drop if the bars don't change?

Good points.
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post #94 of 124
7/15/10 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stst0001 View Post

So no camera on iPad, yet clearly there appears to be a "mount" for it from tear down photos.

There is no camera because they could not get it to function properly - at all.
Fired the engineer in charge of camera.

Brought in new Engineer who within 1 week said the problem was with the Industrial Design:
- the mounting needed to change
- the material coating was causing reflections in to camera and needed to change as well

Apparently that was not well received and he was almost fired as well.
But apparently they came to their senses and realized he was right.

Erm, thought the supposed mount point in the iPad was actually where the ambiend light sensor is fitted??!?
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post #95 of 124
7/15/10 at 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihxo View Post

anonymous source with nothing physical (like a letter or something) to prove it's existence is simply anonymous... aka unknown.

I bet you would have said (or maybe still think) that Watergate never occurred.
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post #96 of 124
7/15/10 at 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

Erm, thought the supposed mount point in the iPad was actually where the ambiend light sensor is fitted??!?

it was intended to house both
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post #97 of 124
7/15/10 at 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stst0001 View Post

it was intended to house both

Says you? Unlike with the iPod touch prototype no iPad prototype has been seen in the wild with a camera so we have no proof either way so you may as well stop with your bullcrap.

As noted by people who have disassembled the iPad it appears that the cutout was intended for the ambient light sensor and not a camera. The only people who suggested a camera were the rumour mongers.
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post #98 of 124
7/15/10 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

Says you? Unlike with the iPod touch prototype no iPad prototype has been seen in the wild with a camera so we have no proof either way so you may as well stop with your bullcrap.

whatever - anger mgmt treatment might help u
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post #99 of 124
7/15/10 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

I think all of you can cite many examples of a product not being release of feature which we know were in early revisions did not materialize in the final release and many times it was because what we were all told was quality issues or concerns or it just did not work the way Steve wanted it to work.



Exactly right.
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post #100 of 124
7/15/10 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

Indeed. Some of the people around here are scary. How in the world could they possibly maintain anything close to objectivity when you have a significant part of their life invested in the naive worship of a corporation's products?
You also have to love how this clown uses his post count as a means of suggesting forum "superiority".

Other than, of course, the fact that 'naive worship' doesn't exist except in the mind of the Apple-hating trolls.

You might, however, ask yourself what would cause someone to spend countless hours and thousands of posts bashing products that they don't own and would never even consider buying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VulpesRex View Post

If you were an Apple employee who had probably violated an NDA to contact the press as a whistleblower, would you want to be outed? The source is not anonymous... as the Bloomberg story clearly states, the source asked not to be identified. You can bet your asses that Peter Burrows and Connie Guglielmo confirmed the identity of the person making the allegations and confirmed that this person was in a position to know such information before they would go to press.

OH, right. All these Apple rumors over the last 3 years were 100% true. These journalists would never publish something without fully verifying it.

That's really good news. Now people can stop complaining about AT&T because the Verizon phone must be coming out this summer. After all, in your world, journalists always verify their facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VulpesRex;1675797And apologies to the fanbois/apologists, but when every mainstream media outlet is reporting this stuff as truth, and even Chuck Schumer (D-NY) is [URL="http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/15/us_sen_schumer_writes_letter_to_apple_ceo_over_iph one_4_antenna.html"

issuing statements[/URL] calling for Apple to provide a substantive fix to the problem, this IS a legitimate issue.

How does either of those statements prove anything? Journalism in this country died 10 years ago. Today, journalism involves nothing more than following the Internet blogs and repeating the same information over and over and over - until people start to believe it.

And Schumer is a grandstanding hot dog. What makes you think he knows anything about the topic? Furthermore, his position is inconsistent with the bloggers you cite. They say Apple will release a fix tomorrow. He says Apple needs to start working on a fix. They can't both be right.
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post #101 of 124
7/15/10 at 11:47am
It doesn't even matter what else is revealed at this point. Most meatbags have already drawn their conclusions (fact based or otherwise), and any further coverage is just affirming whatever you already believe. I'm just disappointed that the blogosphere, media, and even AI are all just one big echo chamber where signal to noise is so low, you can't tell fact from rehashed spin.

It's simple: if you aren't satisfied with your purchase, return it. That's how the free market works. It's a product on the market.
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #102 of 124
7/15/10 at 11:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

I wish Apple would just stop putting a signal strength icon on the iPhone. It is not accurate and it confuses the average user.

C'mon, Apple. The meter just clutters up the UI!

It's not clutter, it's vital information. The reality of wireless is that signal can change with small positional movements, even without antenna problems. In marginal areas, the user needs the feedback in order to find an area where the signal is relatively strong and stable. I'd rather "hunt for bars" for a couple of minutes instead of testing my reception with dropped calls. At one relative's house there is one spot about the size of a refrigerator where I can get a reasonable 3G signal. Signal strength icon helped me find it. I wish folks would stop extrapolating from the specific to the general. You don't find bars useful, but many do. What were you going to do with those few pixels?
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post #103 of 124
7/15/10 at 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

It doesn't even matter what else is revealed at this point. Most meatbags have already drawn their conclusions (fact based or otherwise), and any further coverage is just affirming whatever you already believe. I'm just disappointed that the blogosphere, media, and even AI are all just one big echo chamber where signal to noise is so low, you can't tell fact from rehashed spin.

It's simple: if you aren't satisfied with your purchase, return it. That's how the free market works. It's a product on the market.

They can return it, complain publicly, or to Apple, or file a lawsuit, etc. etc... That's how a free society works.
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post #104 of 124
7/15/10 at 12:05pm
Appleota iPhoneirius... \
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post #105 of 124
7/15/10 at 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

You might, however, ask yourself what would cause someone to spend countless hours and thousands of posts bashing products that they don't own and would never even consider buying.





Seriously.

I mean, you spend countless hours and thousands of posts defending the iPhone 4, but that is because you own it.
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post #106 of 124
7/15/10 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

Seriously.

I mean, you spend countless hours and thousands of posts defending the iPhone 4, but that is because you own it.

How much of a loser would one be to visit an Android forum and pretend to be the most over the top Android fan in order to try to belittle Android fans? What would be the cause? Not enough attention from mom? Too much attention from dad?

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #107 of 124
7/15/10 at 12:24pm
I'm revealed and encouraged that Apple had some awareness that this might be an issue. It means that they're not completely clueless when it comes to antenna design. A "concern" at an early phase of development often points to an "engineering challenge." Many issues can be overcome with a sufficient application of brilliance. When you succeed at overcoming a challenge, you're applauded.

Apple also has a penchant for form-over-function. Remember the round iMac mouse? The way Steve waxed rhapsodic about the way the iPhone 4 was like 'a fine Leica camera' shows how in love he is with the materials design (lack of plastic). This probably trumped other concerns. The signal drop-off issue didn't seem like a big deal. Anyone suggesting putting a plastic barrier over top of the metal band was taken out back and pummeled.

Hopefully, Apple will have a workable solution to this issue. Maybe a plastic coating, or free bumpers or something.
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post #108 of 124
7/15/10 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Other than, of course, the fact that 'naive worship' doesn't exist except in the mind of the Apple-hating trolls.

but see, it all depends on whose ox is gored. We have people (e.g., MS haters) on various threads claiming that the Xbox had a 100% failure rate, etc.

Unfortunately there are individuals on both sides who let there biases get in the way, and then they make absurd statement.
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post #109 of 124
7/15/10 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulk001 View Post

I have a number of phones on order and am just curious - when did you get your phone (on launch day or some time after that?). There has been some speculation that Apple may already have changed the materials used for the antenna so by the time my phones arrive, this may already be a non issue.

I got mine shipped out on July 2nd in the 2nd batch of pre-orders. It arrived July 6th or 7th. I do have the proximity sensor issue, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acslater017 View Post

Wow. Mental math...11,000 posts....9 years....what is that, 3 or 4 posts per day?! I guess if anyone is a judge on a loss of objectivity...

But what do I know, I only have 113 posts.

So...I've lost objectivity because I've been here for 9 years? Actually, I think it's more a lack of perspective on your part. You don't even realize that many of us have been here longer than the records show. There was a blackout back in 2001, I believe. I've actually been registered since January of 2000.
To save time, assume I know everything.
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To save time, assume I know everything.
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post #110 of 124
7/15/10 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Actually, you are right, what do you know about the posters here?

SDW has been here a long time (longer than the current join date would suggest) and is an Apple fan, but you could never call him an Apple apologist. He is very opinionated and I wouldn't necessarily call him objective about a lot of things, but I've never found his views to be coloured by his fanhood of Apple. He'll question Apple whenever he sees fit.

Besides, most of thousand and thousands (and thousands) of posts have been in PO and have nothing to do with Apple at all.

<me> Nods condescendingly towards Tulkas</me>

To save time, assume I know everything.
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To save time, assume I know everything.
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post #111 of 124
7/15/10 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

<me> Nods condescendingly towards Tulkas</me>


post count whore
(seriously, how the hell do you end up with 11K posts in the time I racked up <3k ?)

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #112 of 124
7/15/10 at 1:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stst0001 View Post

whatever - anger mgmt treatment might help u


Dude, people are asking you for your sources. You obviously didn't wake up magically with these ideas in your head.

Where did you hear that?

What did you see? What did you read?

Cough up the when and where and people might take you more seriously. Or they just might think you saw some photos and made up a story of whole cloth.

That didn't happen did it?

State your source or STFU.
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post #113 of 124
7/15/10 at 1:13pm
OK - so

Anonymous source - check

Attributed AND extrpolated commentary - check

COMPLETELY unimpeachable source (Bloomberg) - check

Inflammatory headline - check

Result: Golden Hit Whore Award for AI

Back when journalism pretended to have standards, the headline would have read: "Apple Engineer RUMORED to have warned Steve Jobs about iPhone 4 reception last year", and the liberal use of terms like "alleged", and "supposed" and other qualifiers where appropriate. But when you are caught up in the blog-site race to the bottom (which race is neck and neck with MSM), this must be reported as a certainty.

Because the dainty shell-likes of ardent hatebois demand conspiracy, calumny and rumor to stoke the fires of the apparently bottomless bitterness. Were this a blender, a television, a car, a refrigerator, the customers who were actually having issues would have already returned the problematic device and found something else, either a like replacement, the rougher and more hackable delights of an Android, or even the nostalgia of a Windows Mobile or Symbian Nokia and moved on.
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post #114 of 124
7/15/10 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eacumm View Post

You must be a Verizon person, Well then like my son you must say Fu**ing Verizon a lot, because Verizon Stinks compared to AT&T.

Uhh... not quite. In SoCal I can always tell when someone with AT&T service calls me. The call has that hollow echo sound like they are talking through a tin can sort of sound, every fifth or sixth word drops, and the volume of the call goes higher and lower throughout the length of the call.

The joys of AT&T... not.
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post #115 of 124
7/15/10 at 2:18pm
With all the controversy surrounding the iPhone 4 antenna issues and my sense that this device is providing me with unsatisfactory connectivity performance compared to my old iPhone3GS, I decided to conduct some comparative simple tests. Check out my data and let me know if you've seen similar results.

http://iphonecto.com/2010/07/15/ipho...d-heres-proof/
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post #116 of 124
7/15/10 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Yes, and someone with 166 posts, you are eminently qualified to judge who the apologists are here. Noob.

What does that have to do with anything? An Apple engineer could be on here with 166 posts and know more than you or anyone else, for that matter. That was a pretty stupid response...
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post #117 of 124
7/15/10 at 2:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eacumm View Post

You must be a Verizon person, Well then like my son you must say Fu**ing Verizon a lot, because Verizon Stinks compared to AT&T.

In what universe? I have Verizon and will not, for any reason, part with them. I'd rather continue to use my iPod Touch and a normal phone than switch to AT&T. I have friends that are on all kinds of different networks: T-Mobile, Sprint, AT&T, and even our hometown Cincinnati Bell network. They all suck compared to Verizon. Everywhere I go, even deep into the sticks in Indiana, I have signal. All the rest lose their signals, some of them even in-town.

My brother has both a Verizon account that he and his whole family are on, and an iPhone for business use on the AT&T network. He says that, hands down, Verizon makes AT&T look bad. I'm pretty sure that in just about every market there will be the same results.

I just simply don't understand why the competition doesn't invest more in their network and get some more towers built or, at least, leased from someone.
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post #118 of 124
7/15/10 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masteric View Post

Uhh... not quite. In SoCal I can always tell when someone with AT&T service calls me. The call has that hollow echo sound like they are talking through a tin can sort of sound, every fifth or sixth word drops, and the volume of the call goes higher and lower throughout the length of the call.

The joys of AT&T... not.

You know, one of my good friends has AT&T and when I talk to him, I get the same thing. I never even thought about it until I read your post. It's difficult to carry on a conversation with him sometimes.
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post #119 of 124
7/15/10 at 2:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfrench View Post

With all the controversy surrounding the iPhone 4 antenna issues and my sense that this device is providing me with unsatisfactory connectivity performance compared to my old iPhone3GS, I decided to conduct some comparative simple tests. Check out my data and let me know if you've seen similar results.

http://iphonecto.com/2010/07/15/ipho...d-heres-proof/

404 error... Fix the link, please.
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post #120 of 124
7/15/10 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 87vert View Post

So it looks like Apple will be looking for one more engineer after they fire this guy.

Yeah. Some quiet, obedient ones. Preferably with their tongue removed. Because others are just unfaithful troublemakers.
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