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NYT: iPhone 4 antenna problems a result of 'weakness' in software - Page 4

post #121 of 167
I don't know what to believe anymore.

Guess we'll find out at 1pm Eastern.
post #122 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by mi_sat View Post

Agree. Please post your diploma(s) from all schools attended. Offer up six references. Get a lie detector test.

All of this is critical to "street cred" on some message board.

Frankly, my sense is that if s/he did offer more detailed explanation, you (me, et. al.) wouldn't understand it anyway.

As it stands though, just stating something on the internet is practically useless. If it had any meaning I could demand you bow to me since I am the king of Siam. Of course none of that matters without something to back it up. Making assertions on the internet is useless when you can make up whatever you want.
post #123 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBR View Post

I am going to have to call you on this. An antenna is an antenna is an antenna. It does not know whether it is mobile, fixed or in outer space. It IS about antenna design.

And herein lies the repeated post of probably 10 million know-it-alls across the web, who of course and to no surprise, actually know precisely **** about antennas, engineering, or whats going on with the iPhone.

Thanks though, for making the last few weeks an example of why journalism and the internet, are definitely, 100%, not the same.
post #124 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by thespaz View Post

I don't know what to believe anymore.

Guess we'll find out at 1pm Eastern.

That's a shame. Perhaps try, not basing anything you believe on internet rumors written by morons, and this won't happen.
post #125 of 167
For what it's worth...

I was a late pre-orderer last month, so I just got my iPhone 4 this past Tuesday and I've had no signal issues or dropped calls. Of course, I've only been using my new phone for little over 3 days now, but reading these threads makes it seem like anyone can just walk up to an iPhone 4 and reproduce the problem.

So I'm not saying the problem doesn't exist, but now that I have my own device, I believe it's not nearly as wide-spread as people are making it out to be. Shocker.

* * *

Also, as a side note, I feel like my Wi-Fi signal strength is a lot stronger versus my old iPhone 3G. I can confirm this because I conducted highly-accurate, scientific tests. I promise.
post #126 of 167
So, if true this would mean the flack AT&T has been taking for iPhone dropped calls really should have fallen on the back of Apple. I'm sure that, if true, all the folks who had slagged on AT&T will now slag on Apple.

Nah.
post #127 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by dacloo View Post

You are not an antenna engineer, your mail sounds like you are a guy pretending to be one just to get your point across with some 'credibility'.

And this is not about 'basic antenna engineering', but 'complex mobile engineering'.

And your credentials are....?
post #128 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobility View Post

No you misunderstood the problem. If anything, it made AT&T's reception on the iPhone look good by showing 5 or 4 bars even when the signal strength dropped dramatically.

No, it made the iPhone look good and then placed blame on AT&T when dropped calls, that were attributed to a problem with AT&T's network, were really the fault of the phone.
post #129 of 167
wouldn't it be funny if there was some software developer at Apple who's been pushing for his version of the "communications software" he describes, so he leaked this bs to the press to get people demanding it from Apple

It would be great for someone's resume.
post #130 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by diddy View Post

As it stands though, just stating something on the internet is practically useless. If it had any meaning I could demand you bow to me since I am the king of Siam. Of course none of that matters without something to back it up. Making assertions on the internet is useless when you can make up whatever you want.

I agree with your comment on assertions. No one on an internet discussion board has any credibility.

It is just frustrating when, time-after-time, people are so rude to others just because they can hide behind the anonymity of a "handle" on the internet. I cannot imagine people would say the same things to others if face-to-face.

And, congrats on being King.
post #131 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Please tell me which of the bloggers is better qualified to diagnose and fix the problem than Apple. That's the real absurdity of the Apple-hater's position. You'd rather believe that some silly blogger knows more about the problem and how to fix it than Apple. It's just impossible to argue with such stupidity.

As for me, I haven't been playing the "I know the answer and here it is" game, so I don't know why you're including me - other than your usual inability to form a logical thought.

"Let's just wait for real data interpreted by people who know what they're talking about (which does not include bloggers or NYT journalists or CR 'testers', apparently)."

So you do believe you know who don't know the answer, which by extension means you actually are playing the "I know the answer" game (otherwise you wouldn't be in a positon to judge), despite your hollow protestations to the contrary.

I can tell you that the least likely to admit culpability is the perpetrator. So your propensity to take Apple's word as the truth in this matter, before you even hear what their explanation is, clearly positions you as having prejudged the issue. Apple apologist you certainly are.

You characterise me as an Apple hater when I am also clearly not. I readily confess to not being a mindless Apple suck-up such as yourself, however. And I'd believe the info from AnandTech and ConsumerReports over the sycophantic excuses you continually make for Apple any day. Your passion for Apple has clouded your judgement to the extent that you are spending way too much time 'defending' the indefensible.

Take a few days off this quixotic mission of yours and take a breath or two. The imaginary Apple hater windmills will still be there to tilt at for weeks to come, I'm sure.
post #132 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proximityeffect View Post

He works for (and I quote) "space business."

Is that like one of those mini-storage places?
post #133 of 167
Doesn't the NYT usually post some kind of early insider piece the morning before an Apple press conference?

So that this is more of a case of Apple PR intentionally leaking a few of the details of the press conference to see what the response is---giving them one last chance to tweak the exact content. Maybe?

If that is true, that says that apple will announce:
1. No recall.
2. No bumpers.
3. Software fix in Mid August. (within 30 days.)
post #134 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

If you were that concerned you think you would actually read the article.

Yet another blog genius without a clue.

I'm not sure whether OC4Theo could be considered a "blog genius" or not. I'm certainly willing to concede that PMZ may be much more intelligent than me because - for what may appear to be at least one reason - OC4Theo is willing to weigh options and decide whether to return the iPhone or not. Certainly insight, and the willingness to act upon it, is just one of the characteristics that separates someone like me from those who are mentioned in the annals of history.

For me, the choice seems a lot more difficult. It can almost be characterized in a humorous but sm*rt*ss fashion as thus:

"Hmmm - here is this amazing device (the iPhone 4) that does many wonderful and admirable things. However, there is one problem I've noticed - signal strength starts to fade when I hold the iPhone is a certain manner. Admittedly, this is not then a perfect device. I can choose to continue to be vexed by returning to the "death grip" configuration even though I can see that it compromises the iPhone's value, or I can simply re-grip it and avoid the problem altogether.

But - this is America, and while I do not expect perfection, I do want my hard earned money to make the best purchase possible, and it matters to me, on a personal level, how a company that has received my money responds after my purchase when alerted that their product is not perfect. I could also just go purchase a bumper that would erase the problem altogether, but this is America and I like the look of the iPhone without the bumper. In fact, had it come with the bumper, I for one might have had to stifle the urge to remove it from the iPhone so I could enjoy the look of the device unadorned with the bumper.

(Now here it comes - the part I've been building up to):

So now that I think about it, I am going to return my iPhone for a refund and get a (***** fill in the blank of a competing device). Even though I will have traded my iPhone 4 cellular experience for that of a device with what might be viewed as having its own set of problems in software design and/or manufacturing, at least I will no longer be bothered by the iPhone 4 antenna reception "death grip" issue. Ha!

Several months later:

I look at others who seem to be enjoying their iPhone 4 and wonder why they also didn't return theirs. By now I have become well acquainted with the problems inherent with my new (****** fill in the blank) phone but I am consigned to live with them and perhaps even overlook them. And I'm really steamed with Steve Jobs for waiting until after I returned my iPhone 4 to respond like he did to the "death grip" problem. He had all that time to find the problem before it was originally released - why didn't he hurry up and fix the problem before I returned it. I think I hate Apple. How can all these people around me, enjoying their iPhone 4, do so with the knowledge that Steve responded in the fashion he did?

I think I will show them by buying a PC next time the opportunity comes up - I'm sure Windows 7 will be just as good as OS X, and the company behind Windows 7 is not deceitful like Apple is. Nor does it seem to put out less than perfect products that have not been perfected.
"

(Back to me now)

I would like to apologize beforehand to anyone whose thought pattern this exactly lampoons, but - considering the alternatives - there's not an App for me that will fix the even bigger problem of jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

Thank you.
post #135 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plagen View Post

Wouldn't be great if Jobs would say : " Thank you for coming. Now go and f... yourself. I have more things to worry about than pity people with fat thumbs. Just stck them back to where they belong. And for those that cry for free bumpers - no soup for you. Thank you".

That kind of attitude is why Apple is having to hold a press conference today. Oh yea, that would be just great.


The bottom line is this....if an iPhone doesn't work for a customer, it should be returned within the 30 day period regardless of what Apple promises at any press conference. Folks, don't buy complicated, computerized electronic equipment on the promise that it will be made to work properly at a later date with a software fix. People have been making this error since the IBM XT. No kidding, take it back. You can always buy another one later.

If the iPhone works for you now, what are you doing here in the first place?
post #136 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliphord View Post

For what it's worth...

I was a late pre-orderer last month, so I just got my iPhone 4 this past Tuesday and I've had no signal issues or dropped calls. Of course, I've only been using my new phone for little over 3 days now, but reading these threads makes it seem like anyone can just walk up to an iPhone 4 and reproduce the problem.

So I'm not saying the problem doesn't exist, but now that I have my own device, I believe it's not nearly as wide-spread as people are making it out to be. Shocker.

* * *

Also, as a side note, I feel like my Wi-Fi signal strength is a lot stronger versus my old iPhone 3G. I can confirm this because I conducted highly-accurate, scientific tests. I promise.

i'm sorry to say that your experience and opinion is irrelevant here. only doomsday stories are creditable.
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post #137 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by mi_sat View Post

And, congrats on being King.

Thanks. Now KNEEL Before me!
post #138 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper View Post

"Let's just wait for real data interpreted by people who know what they're talking about (which does not include bloggers or NYT journalists or CR 'testers', apparently)."

So you do believe you know who don't know the answer, which by extension means you actually are playing the "I know the answer" game (otherwise you wouldn't be in a positon to judge), despite your hollow protestations to the contrary.

I can tell you that the least likely to admit culpability is the perpetrator. So your propensity to take Apple's word as the truth in this matter, before you even hear what their explanation is, clearly positions you as having prejudged the issue. Apple apologist you certainly are.

You characterise me as an Apple hater when I am also clearly not. I readily confess to not being a mindless Apple suck-up such as yourself, however. And I'd believe the info from AnandTech and ConsumerReports over the sycophantic excuses you continually make for Apple any day. Your passion for Apple has clouded your judgement to the extent that you are spending way too much time 'defending' the indefensible.

Take a few days off this quixotic mission of yours and take a breath or two. The imaginary Apple hater windmills will still be there to tilt at for weeks to come, I'm sure.

That's weird, convoluted logic - even for you.

I stated that the bloggers and NYT journalists don't know what they're talking about. That is obvious from the fact that there are 10,000 contradictory rumors flying around, none of them supported with any data. How in the world do you get from that statement to pretending that I claimed that I DO know what is going on? There is no such logical inference.

As for Apple, you're free to believe that they're a lying bunch of scumbags if you wish. I couldn't care less. But my statement is 100% accurate. NO ONE is going to have more factual information about the problem and its solution than Apple. It's absolutely insane to think otherwise.

Now, that doesn't mean that they'll necessarily tell the full truth, but it doesn't change the fact that they certainly know more about the problem than all the bloggers and anonymous posters here. As for telling the truth, Apple has a long history of admitting their errors and the best customer satisfaction of any computer or cell phone manufacturer. You don't get that by continuously lying to your customers, the press, the government, and so on. But go ahead and believe it if is somehow makes your feeble little life any better.
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post #139 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

Nope, not happening. Physics isn't currently up to be changed at will. At least not in my lifetime. (I'm 31)

Since the antenna is exposed, touching it with your hand causes attenuation. Well then, use it to your advantage - you now have a chance to improve reception by adding an external antenna like this dude
post #140 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

Nope, not happening. Physics isn't currently up to be changed at will. At least not in my lifetime. (I'm 31)

Off topic, perhaps not the basics physics that we see everyday, but I wouldn't be so sure about other stuff that may affect everyday technology items. Many things were discovered in the last few years that the physisists don't understand- Dark matter, dark energy to name a few. And lets face, quantum mechanics is just crazy stuff.

In any case, Apple may have made a mistake about a press conference (made the main stream news big time), rather than just a simple press release that said-

As of today we have sold over x million ip4's. We are humbled that so many customers agree with us that this is the best smart phone Apple has ever made.
We have identified some quality control and technical issues that may be a problem for some users in low signal areas. We believe we have corrected those issues with manufactureing and software updates.
Any one not happy with the ip4 can-
Return it within xxx days for a full refund.
Exchange it within xxx days with an appointment at the local apple store or xxx store.
All ip4 users will receive a $50 credit for use in the Apple store.

We sincerly apologize for an any inconvience this may have caused you
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post #141 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Nassour View Post

That kind of attitude is why Apple is having to hold a press conference today. Oh yea, that would be just great.


The bottom line is this....if an iPhone doesn't work for a customer, it should be returned within the 30 day period regardless of what Apple promises at any press conference. Folks, don't buy complicated, computerized electronic equipment on the promise that it will be made to work properly at a later date with a software fix. People have been making this error since the IBM XT. No kidding, take it back. You can always buy another one later.

If the iPhone works for you now, what are you doing here in the first place?

That's sound advice.

Apple has a very poor record of resolving hardware problems for customers. They may (or may not) resolve the hardware problem with subsequent production, but are extremely unlikely to offer a fix (free or otherwise) to customers with a hardware problem that is widespread.
post #142 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

And herein lies the repeated post of probably 10 million know-it-alls across the web, who of course and to no surprise, actually know precisely **** about antennas, engineering, or whats going on with the iPhone.

Thanks though, for making the last few weeks an example of why journalism and the internet, are definitely, 100%, not the same.

Take a look in the mirror, dude. You must have flunked science class, if you were in school long enough to get to one.

P.S. Are you on Apple's payroll. You certainly are an Apple apologist.
post #143 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

How in the world do you get from that statement to pretending that I claimed that I DO know what is going on? There is no such logical inference.

As for Apple, you're free to believe that they're a lying bunch of scumbags if you wish. I couldn't care less. But my statement is 100% accurate. NO ONE is going to have more factual information about the problem and its solution than Apple. It's absolutely insane to think otherwise.

Now, that doesn't mean that they'll necessarily tell the full truth, but it doesn't change the fact that they certainly know more about the problem than all the bloggers and anonymous posters here. As for telling the truth, Apple has a long history of admitting their errors and the best customer satisfaction of any computer or cell phone manufacturer. You don't get that by continuously lying to your customers, the press, the government, and so on. But go ahead and believe it if is somehow makes your feeble little life any better.

Your lack of cognitive connection is most assuredly not my problem.

However, if you go around stating...

"Let's just wait for real data interpreted by people who know what they're talking about (which does not include bloggers or NYT journalists or CR 'testers', apparently)."

then you really shouldn't be 'stunned' when you're called on your claim that "bloggers or NYT journalists or CR 'testers' " don't know what they're talking about, a judgement that could only be possible if you were possession of the facts. It's quite a simple concept really. That you don't understand the implications of the things you write is however tragic.

Here's a newsflash for you - I don't think Apple are scumbags, irrespective of your pathetic attempt to put those words in my mouth. I think they're a gigantic, successful multinational that will do whatever they can to mitigate the damage to their bottom line and their shareholders. And that includes whatever disingenuous PR stuff that suck-ups like you will let them get away with.

And you're right for a change - no matter that they have 100% knowledge of what the antenna issues are, they'll only release whatever they can't avoid disclosing. It's absolutely insane to think otherwise.

Continuous lying to its customers? Neat strawman argument there, but it doesn't need to be "continuous". If they're lying, they're lying. But that's your call.

How many posts have you expended defending this huge corporation jragosta? And how many months of your life does that add up to? Yet you have the cheek to criticise my "feeble little life"? You pathetic little sycophantic jerk.

And where are the links to all those criticisms of Apple "when they've deserved it" that you claimed in another thread, to have posted? We're still waiting.
post #144 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBR View Post

Apple has a very poor record of resolving hardware problems for customers. They may (or may not) resolve the hardware problem with subsequent production, but are extremely unlikely to offer a fix (free or otherwise) to customers with a hardware problem that is widespread.

Really? Apple is widely recognized as offering the BEST customer service in the industry and having the highest customer satisfaction rates. What evidence is there to support your claim?
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post #145 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

In any case, Apple may have made a mistake about a press conference (made the main stream news big time), rather than just a simple press release that said-

As of today we have sold over x million ip4's. We are humbled that so many customers agree with us that this is the best smart phone Apple has ever made.
We have identified some quality control and technical issues that may be a problem for some users in low signal areas. We believe we have corrected those issues with manufactureing and software updates.
Any one not happy with the ip4 can-
Return it within xxx days for a full refund.
Exchange it within xxx days with an appointment at the local apple store or xxx store.
All ip4 users will receive a $50 credit for use in the Apple store.

We sincerly apologize for an any inconvience this may have caused you

Hell yeah! Apple can buy me off. Doubt this will happen, though.
post #146 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

i'm sorry to say that your experience and opinion is irrelevant here. only doomsday stories are creditable.

I should have put my original post in CAPS. That would've added a little credibility.
post #147 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Really? Apple is widely recognized as offering the BEST customer service in the industry and having the highest customer satisfaction rates. What evidence is there to support your claim?

One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. The fact of the matter is that, when there has been a widespread hardware problem, Apple have frequently left the customer high and dry.

That has NOTHING to do with whether people are satisfied with the products which do work well.
post #148 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBR View Post

One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. The fact of the matter is that, when there has been a widespread hardware problem, Apple have frequently left the customer high and dry.

That has NOTHING to do with whether people are satisfied with the products which do work well.

I see. So people are always happy to be left high and dry with widespread hardware problems?

But go ahead and try to back up your claim. The iMac yellow screen problem is the most recent hardware problem on Apple products - and Apple replaced affected computers. Where's your evidence of those users affected by widespread problems being left high and dry.
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post #149 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBR View Post

Take a look in the mirror, dude. You must have flunked science class, if you were in school long enough to get to one.

P.S. Are you on Apple's payroll. You certainly are an Apple apologist.

Considering you're the one who posted this...>

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBR View Post

Apple has a very poor record of resolving hardware problems for customers. They may (or may not) resolve the hardware problem with subsequent production, but are extremely unlikely to offer a fix (free or otherwise) to customers with a hardware problem that is widespread.

...it's clear that you are speaking from nothing, no knowledge, experience, research, or reading.

In which case, you can help everyone by shutting the lid on the fountain of nothing.
post #150 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper View Post

"Let's just wait for real data interpreted by people who know what they're talking about (which does not include bloggers or NYT journalists or CR 'testers', apparently)."

So you do believe you know who don't know the answer, which by extension means you actually are playing the "I know the answer" game (otherwise you wouldn't be in a positon to judge), despite your hollow protestations to the contrary.

I can tell you that the least likely to admit culpability is the perpetrator. So your propensity to take Apple's word as the truth in this matter, before you even hear what their explanation is, clearly positions you as having prejudged the issue. Apple apologist you certainly are.

You characterise me as an Apple hater when I am also clearly not. I readily confess to not being a mindless Apple suck-up such as yourself, however. And I'd believe the info from AnandTech and ConsumerReports over the sycophantic excuses you continually make for Apple any day. Your passion for Apple has clouded your judgement to the extent that you are spending way too much time 'defending' the indefensible.

Take a few days off this quixotic mission of yours and take a breath or two. The imaginary Apple hater windmills will still be there to tilt at for weeks to come, I'm sure.

Proclaiming oneself as an enlightened critic with the available contributions you have made demonstrating otherwise is easily as much a sin as his. The least likely category is also going to be those whose stock in trade is generating as much churn (and page hits) and controversy as possible, and of course those for whom any issue which qualifies Apple's alleged dominance in this category is a good thing.

And actually for the record, while you disclaim that you are NOT an Apple hater (which claim I can easily believe), you insist on a stance which questions motivations and expertise on the part of Apple basing your opinion largely on rumor, innuendo and speculation - again based on the opinions you freely express in your postings. You in fact have no idea how widespread this issue is (no one is since no publically known reliable statistics exist)- relying on the ubiqutious "MANY" qualifier, and so on. Based on the soft foundation of these claims you layer on Anand's observations, and then you ignore when others apparently qualifed engineers challenge those findings independent of any commentary in these threads.

To claim you are an unbiased critic or observer under the demonstrated bias from so many of your postings is hardly grounds for being anything critical of anyone else who might decide to champion Apple in this case, jragosta or otherwise. You sir are damned by your own words if you will.

If on the other hand you had demonstrated a truly unbaised and objective stance you would well have a basis to call out any champion or detractor for excesses of enthusiasm or defensiveness. But you didn't, and since you give no quarter in your personal criticism of others you should not be offended when none is granted you.
post #151 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

As for Apple, you're free to believe that they're a lying bunch of scumbags if you wish. I couldn't care less. But my statement is 100% accurate. NO ONE is going to have more factual information about the problem and its solution than Apple. It's absolutely insane to think otherwise.

+1
Thank you.

It's staggering, embarrassing, and all together ridiculous how many people disagree with the above statement...of which there is no room in the physical, logical world, for disagreement. It's like saying it gets dark at night. There is no feasible argument against it. Other than to whine and cry and say, 'Nooo it doesn't! '

Apple has the best (and only) knowledge of what's actually going on. For the next hour, anyway.
post #152 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacSince1988 View Post

Many of these threads contain complaints about all of the different things that Apple might do to fix the antenna problem, blaming Apple for indecision and confusion about what to do. However, Apple has not had any sort of official comment recently, so these potential solutions are all other people's speculation. Before judging Apple's response (to be good or bad), can we please wait to see what they actually have to say tomorrow?

Heaven forfend, we wait to find out what they actually say and do. Not that what they actually say and do will stop the speculation and bitter griping.
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post #153 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

Considering you're the one who posted this...>



...it's clear that you are speaking from nothing, no knowledge, experience, research, or reading.

In which case, you can help everyone by shutting the lid on the fountain of nothing.

On the contrary. I am speaking from first hand knowledge and experience. You are obviously not at all knowledgeable. If you had been around the Mac platform for long you would know better than to be such a fool.
post #154 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBR View Post

That's sound advice.

Apple has a very poor record of resolving hardware problems for customers. They may (or may not) resolve the hardware problem with subsequent production, but are extremely unlikely to offer a fix (free or otherwise) to customers with a hardware problem that is widespread.

This is known as an hanging statement - run out in a forum like this with absolutely no supporting evidence. Only slightly worse are the "well everyone knows that..." and "it's common knowledge that..." danglies that get appended to the above.

Magically trollicious. Seriously. I am at a loss to explain why a person, who one assumes has much better things to do with the 60 or 70 odd years of existence available to them would waste such time and effort being a detractor in a site that obviously is a place where those who admire and use the devices in question come together. Other than there is relative safety in the anonymity of sitting behind a screen instead of face to face. In some ways its rather unfortunate that unlike the saloons of the Old West where everyone is virtually guaranteed to be wearing a sidearm, and equally able to deliver a pointed response to obvious stupidity, a more permanent response to such continuous trolling is not available.

Wait for it - we will now get the requisite disclaimer of - I've used Macs longer than all the rest of you, own more stock and am an expert in (name your field) - and therefore am qualified to spew forth my opinions at will.
post #155 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I see. So people are always happy to be left high and dry with widespread hardware problems?

But go ahead and try to back up your claim. The iMac yellow screen problem is the most recent hardware problem on Apple products - and Apple replaced affected computers. Where's your evidence of those users affected by widespread problems being left high and dry.

No, not at all. One should remember the nature of customer satisfaction surveys. Although Apple have a history of higher than industry standard customer satisfaction, that is not always saying much. (Have you ever dealt with Dell? May Michael Dell rot in hell.)

Even with an overall higher than industry standard for general satisfaction, Apple have nevertheless failed to deal with a number of problems on systems. I, for one, would not be encouraged that Apple would do whatever is necessary to "make right' an inherent hardware problem with an iPhone I had purchased. If there is a sample defect, and they are able to document it, I would have greater confidence in Apple taking care of the matter.

I will concede that Apple has gotten better about making right isolated problems. My experience with other systems has been that you are pretty much on your own.
post #156 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBR View Post

That's sound advice.

Apple has a very poor record of resolving hardware problems for customers. They may (or may not) resolve the hardware problem with subsequent production, but are extremely unlikely to offer a fix (free or otherwise) to customers with a hardware problem that is widespread.

Hmm, in january this year i got my 3GS replaced with a brand new unit after a 5 minute call to applecare and a 5 minute visit to the genius bar. it was a minor, almost cosmetic issue. my partner has had an ipod or two replaced without any trouble. my work mate had an ipod classic replaced, although as they didn't have the same model in stock, he could pay a small sum and get one with a larger capacity hard drive instead. on the other side, my friend's partner had trouble with Apple Japan getting a faulty iPod replaced, and of course on the net you read all sorts of horror stories. They're not perfect, but to say they have a poor record is, i dare say, unfair. do you have any evidence to back that up, because sales would point the other direction.
"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
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"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
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post #157 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

Hmm, in january this year i got my 3GS replaced with a brand new unit after a 5 minute call to applecare and a 5 minute visit to the genius bar. it was a minor, almost cosmetic issue. my partner has had an ipod or two replaced without any trouble. my work mate had an ipod classic replaced, although as they didn't have the same model in stock, he could pay a small sum and get one with a larger capacity hard drive instead. on the other side, my friend's partner had trouble with Apple Japan getting a faulty iPod replaced, and of course on the net you read all sorts of horror stories. They're not perfect, but to say they have a poor record is, i dare say, unfair. do you have any evidence to back that up, because sales would point the other direction.

I am pleased that you have had good experience with your hardware repairs/replacement. I have not been so fortunate. Roughly two years ago, I gave an iPhone back to Apple because it malfunctioned in almost every function. I had taken it in to the Genius Bar twice for a complete diagnostic. It simply was no good and so I bailed on it. With an earlier PowerMac, there were defective hard drive controllers, Firewire modules and out-of-spec (from the factory) RAM, that were common to the entire model. Not only was Apple of no assistance whatsoever, but they stonewalled everyone, leaving us to sort out what was wrong and figure out solutions.

I certainly hope that your favorable experience is more common than not today. Really, I do. I believe that the company stores with better trained personnel are probably a (positive) factor. There used to be an axiom with Apple products, "Never buy a Rev A". I am still inclined to never buy a first production run.

As far as sales go, bad customer experience does not always translate to declining sales...take Dell Computers, for example. Please take them! Dell has the most loathsome excuse for customer support imaginable. I once commented to someone that Dell's (outsourced) customer support personnel were functionally illiterate in English. He responded that, in his experience, I was being far too kind in my evaluation. Nevertheless, Dell sells a bunch of product.

You may take note that I am still using Apple products notwithstanding the fact that not all my experiences with Apple have been favorable. I suppose that says something or other. Those experiences make me leery of being in too big of a rush to buy the first run of any new Apple product.

As things relate to the iPhone 4, I am of the opinion that the reason(s) for such a difference in unit to unit performance have yet to be fully determined. I have personally held at least half a dozen different iPhone 4 units in all the "wrong" ways to test them. Some of them have an almost immediate plunge in displayed signal strength and some of them (at the same location with only a few seconds difference in time) would show no displayed signal loss at all. The ones which lost displayed signal strength would usually go from 5 bars to 3, then 2 and then none at all. I think there is something very odd going on in addition to the matters which have been reported. Additionally, I have spoken with a number of other people who have been using the iPhone 4 and a surprisingly large number of my admittedly small sample have experienced little trouble with dropped calls even without a case or bumper.

In a few minutes we should see what approach Apple has chosen to take. Let's hope they get out in front of it and commit to determining what problem(s) there may be and work to resolve them.
post #158 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by LewysBlackmore View Post

Proclaiming oneself as an enlightened critic with the available contributions you have made demonstrating otherwise is easily as much a sin as his. The least likely category is also going to be those whose stock in trade is generating as much churn (and page hits) and controversy as possible, and of course those for whom any issue which qualifies Apple's alleged dominance in this category is a good thing.

And actually for the record, while you disclaim that you are NOT an Apple hater (which claim I can easily believe), you insist on a stance which questions motivations and expertise on the part of Apple basing your opinion largely on rumor, innuendo and speculation - again based on the opinions you freely express in your postings. You in fact have no idea how widespread this issue is (no one is since no publically known reliable statistics exist)- relying on the ubiqutious "MANY" qualifier, and so on. Based on the soft foundation of these claims you layer on Anand's observations, and then you ignore when others apparently qualifed engineers challenge those findings independent of any commentary in these threads.

To claim you are an unbiased critic or observer under the demonstrated bias from so many of your postings is hardly grounds for being anything critical of anyone else who might decide to champion Apple in this case, jragosta or otherwise. You sir are damned by your own words if you will.

If on the other hand you had demonstrated a truly unbaised and objective stance you would well have a basis to call out any champion or detractor for excesses of enthusiasm or defensiveness. But you didn't, and since you give no quarter in your personal criticism of others you should not be offended when none is granted you.

A rather er... copious critique if I may say so.

I never proclaimed myself as an "enlightened critic". And my contributions, while not being to your taste apparently, have been hopefully coherent and more interesting than a lot of what is contributed here at AI. If I fail, then it's not for want of trying.

I freely admit to not having an insider's knowledge of what goes on within Apple, so my observations, opinions and hopes are based on the reports, hopes, rumors and fantasies of the blogosphere and the mainstream media. I feel I'm entitled to be a little sceptical of the corporate stance of the companies that produce the gadgets that interest me.

I appreciate that you find it in your heart to accept that I am not, as jragosta categorises me, an Apple hater.

There are many here who champion Apple, including (perhaps unbelievably considering the context of much of my posting here) myself. Few of those are the extreme, mindless attackers of those who question Apple, as personified by jragosta. If you admire his behaviour, then it's something we'll be forever disagreeing on. Unfortunately.

Note that I have attempted to avoid insults and for the most part have been successful in that, but there have been exceptions, and they are those occasions when I have been insulted first. Simply stated, if you treat me decently, then I will respond in kind.

As far as bias, I'd say that's in the eye of the beholder. Make you own mind up.
post #159 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzExige View Post

hey

Does anybody really care what the NYT thinks or
a some Democratic Senator?

No really guys and gals, I'd like to know if Americans give a rat's ass (have the same distrust as Aussies)
about The Media and Politicians?

Though my confidence in popular media outlets is also extremely low this is the wrong place. Lots of political forums you can discuss this kind of stuff, lets keep it tech here.
post #160 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by IsmOfAm View Post

Since the antenna is exposed, touching it with your hand causes attenuation. Well then, use it to your advantage - you now have a chance to improve reception by adding an external antenna like this dudeā€¦]

I think the issue actually lies in bridging the Cell and Wifi/Bluetooth antennae. Remember that the frame is in 3 parts, 2 of which are antennae.

You have a good point though, if I touch the rabbit ears for our TV the signal strength like doubles. Apple could use this to their advantage.
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