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Apple admits iPhone 4 drops more calls per 100 than iPhone 3GS

post #1 of 41
Thread Starter 
Apple on Friday shared a summary of dropped call data it received from wireless partner AT&T, which revealed that the iPhone 4 experiences more dropped calls than the iPhone 3GS, but at a rate less than one per 100 greater.

"It's very hard, when we look at this data, not to conclude that there is a problem," Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs said Friday. "But it's a problem affecting a small percentage of users."

Jobs, speaking at the iPhone 4 antenna issue press conference, posited a theory: the new shape of the iPhone 4 had inadvertently lead to issues seen by customers. He said that when the iPhone 3GS came out, it was the same shape as the iPhone 3G, so existing customers could use their old cases.

Even new customers could buy old cases, as well, which were readily available in stores, because the shape of the phone had not changed.

But with the iPhone 4, fewer customers are using cases because they are not yet widely available for the new form factor of the iPhone 4. Jobs said that's just his theory on the matter, and the company is looking further into it.

The theory falls in line with what was told to The New York Times, which reported on Thursday that the iPhone 4 antenna issue is a longstanding problem involving both hardware and software.
post #2 of 41
LOL and AAPL is green again.
post #3 of 41
I wonder how many calls other smart phones drop.

btw: i've never ever heard anyone compalin to me here in Switzerland about dropped calls. Maybe AT &T's network is just bad?
post #4 of 41
Free bumpers is the mimum they could to do deflect the bad PR.

Atleast they admitted to the proximity sensor issue ..
post #5 of 41
You left out the part that said it is less than one call per 100. Hardly a significant rise in dropped call rate.
post #6 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by bspears View Post

You left out the part that said it is less than one call per 100. Hardly a significant rise in dropped call rate.

But, they did say it is an increased amount from the previous iPhone.

I am glad they said it was a noted increase. They admitted it was a problem so all of the people on here that said anyone affected were just whiners can hush up now.

I think apple did the right with the bumpers.
post #7 of 41
I bet most of the increase in dropped calls over those experienced with the 3GS can be attributed to people intentionally trying to re-create the call dropping they read about on the Internet by pressing hard on the antenna gap with their sweaty hands.
post #8 of 41
what about this, was he faking this info for some reason?
http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/25/t...ng-less-calls/
post #9 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrogusto View Post

I bet most of the increase in dropped calls over those experienced with the 3GS can be attributed to people intentionally trying to re-create the call dropping they read about on the Internet by pressing hard on the antenna gap with their sweaty hands.

What's hilarious is that the "less than 1 call per 100" more than the 3GS will be deemed absolutely no big deal and yet . . .

When dropped call ratings came out a few months back and AT&T was skewered by nearly all for the results, the difference in dropped call rate between Verizon and AT&T was "less than 1 call per 100." As I recall it was 3 more per 1,000, or for the fractionally impaired less then 1/3 per 100.

I posted the link to the info back then, I'll try to dig it up again.
post #10 of 41
Your headline is incorrect. It does not "drop more calls per 100", it drops "less than 1 more call per 100". Also, it's more of a disclosure than an "admission".
post #11 of 41
I've been watching people lately in how they use their phones. i don't see anybody using that full fisted death grip. Everybody seems to hold their phones in their finger tips. At least while they're talking on the phone. The full grip would mean that the butt of your palm rests on your face. Who would put up with that?
post #12 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtDecoDalek View Post

Your headline is incorrect. It does not "drop more calls per 100", it drops "less than 1 more call per 100". Also, it's more of a disclosure than an "admission".

LOL, seriously?

3.5 calls per 100 is more than 3.0 calls per 100. "Drops more calls per 100" is perfectly valid, and the specifics are within the article. A bit too anal methinks.
post #13 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by bspears View Post

You left out the part that said it is less than one call per 100. Hardly a significant rise in dropped call rate.

Not to mention that this could easily be explained because iPhone4 users are buying 4x fewer cases!
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post #14 of 41
To add some numbers: apparently 80% of iPhone users use cases (though I also read 75% from some non-Apple source recently). Except for the iPhone 4: 20%. And cases help just about any smartphone’s version of this problem.

Any smartphone where people are going caseless 4x as often ought to see a sizable increase in dropped calls. And yet the iPhone 4 has seen essentially no increase (less than 1%). That sure makes it sound like the 4’s antenna is indeed BETTER, and will have a really excellent dropped-call rate once case usage has time to return to normal.

Also, I’d be interested to see how much that dropped-call rate fluctuates randomly, or seasonally. Maybe more than 1%, making this less-than-1% difference statistically meaningless? Just curious—I’m sure AT&T won’t give us graphs.

Meanwhile, I’ve been tightly death-gripping my iPhone 4 on purpose since I got it, to try to push the limits:

* It never drops a call

* Quality never lessens

* I never lose data performance—even during a call

* I never drop from 3G down to E (not from holding it any rate)

* But I do see big changes in the bars at certain random times/places (but with 4.01 that scary fluctyation should settle down)

Eventually I’ll gladly take a free case But I like my phone small and naked, and it’s working great that way. I’m loving it.

Gotta like Apple’s response “there is no problem—and here is the undeniable proof—but we’ll STILL give freebies to millions.” That makes the iPhone 4 that much better... it comes with a choice of free case! (And might do so even after September—Steve said they’re just taking until then to re-evaluate options/fixes.)
post #15 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meriana View Post

I wonder how many calls other smart phones drop.

btw: i've never ever heard anyone compalin to me here in Switzerland about dropped calls. Maybe AT &T's network is just bad?



Yep, we still need to blame it on AT&T right...
post #16 of 41
Apple wants people to blame AT&T for signal issues in the US. But Apple is the one refusing to make the iPhone available through other carriers in the US. Who is forcing Apple to stay exclusive with AT&T? Is AT&T holding a gun to Steve Jobs' head? As long as Apple chooses to remain exclusive with AT&T, even though other carriers are available, shouldn't Apple share the blame?
post #17 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by bspears View Post

You left out the part that said it is less than one call per 100. Hardly a significant rise in dropped call rate.

Whoopi Goldberg thought her one dropped call was significant.
If enough dropped calls are observed, even a 0.1% rise is significant.
post #18 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Whoopi Goldberg thought her one dropped call was significant.
If enough dropped calls are observed, even a 0.1% rise is significant.

Of course. Every dropped call is important to someone.

The point, though, is that Apple is limited by the laws of physics, available technology, and network limitations. Expecting 0.00000% dropped calls is completely unreasonable. All you can expect is that the number be comparable to (or, hopefully, better than) other phones on the market at the same time.
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post #19 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by bspears View Post

You left out the part that said it is less than one call per 100. Hardly a significant rise in dropped call rate.

You sure about that? Let's assume the 3GS is already horrible with dropped calls and drops 1 in 25. If the iPhone 4 drops nearly 1 in 100 *more* than the 3GS, that would mean it drops 25% *more* calls. That's horrible! If the 3GS isn't so horrible and only drops 1 out of 100 now, that would mean iPhone 4 drops nearly *twice* the number of calls!
post #20 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Apple wants people to blame AT&T for signal issues in the US. But Apple is the one refusing to make the iPhone available through other carriers in the US. Who is forcing Apple to stay exclusive with AT&T? Is AT&T holding a gun to Steve Jobs' head? As long as Apple chooses to remain exclusive with AT&T, even though other carriers are available, shouldn't Apple share the blame?

Huh?!?! Is this an argument to something? How about the fact that Apple is still under exclusivity contract with ATT? That may not be your proverbial gun to the head, but it is certainly a valid reason. There are also other factors like Visual Voice Mail that requires work on the part of the carrier for a proper implementation. Plus there are not many big providers in the US who's network is compatible with the current iPhone.

Suffice to say, it's a LOT more involved than just shipping phones to T Mobile, Sprint, Verizon or whoever to providing a second carrier in the US. That doesn't mean that it's not possible or OVERLY difficult, just that you make it seem that all Apple needs to do is start sending out phones to carrier X.
post #21 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by bspears View Post

You left out the part that said it is less than one call per 100. Hardly a significant rise in dropped call rate.

We don't know how many calls the 3GS drops so we cannot say if this is a significant increase or not. For example, if the 3GS only drops 1 in 1000 this would be a 10 fold increase which is a significant rise.
post #22 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

We don't know how many calls the 3GS drops so we cannot say if this is a significant increase or not. For example, if the 3GS only drops 1 in 1000 this would be a 10 fold increase which is a significant rise.

Bingo.

One additional dropped call per 100 calls could be many times more.

Found this where AT&T claims "the percentage of dropped calls throughout the network has fallen from 1.41% to 1.05% between December '08 and December '09."

Taking a completely unscientific approach, the average might be about 1.23% of calls get dropped. Assuming the 3GS is about average (maybe it is better), then the iPhone 4 having 1 more dropped call per 100 is almost a doubling of that rate.

Somehow people take Jobs statement that it is 'only' 1 more dropped call (maybe a little less) than the 3GS is an indicator of something positive? really?

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post #23 of 41
Are you really worried about that? I can understand if iPhone dropped half of calls and now he drops even more, but I never heard of such an issue on 3G. For average person, "1 of 100 calls" means "once a few weeks" nothings special about it, I think.
post #24 of 41
AAAHAAAAA!!!!!! Apple ADMITS the iP4 drops more calls than the 3GS!!!! They finally were forced came clean about the real truth surrounding horrendous dropped call rate they had tried so deparately to conceal lo these many weeks!

The Appleinsider headliners are laughable. Sensationalism for effect. Yellow Journalism.

Ya'll need to grow up.
post #25 of 41
Don't you know Fox News - and I'll assume other, Fox is just the one I happened to see - mentioned and had a graphic that the iPhone 4 dropped more calls then the 3GS, but didn't mention or notate the rate.
Whole story folks, less spin.
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post #26 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Bingo.

One additional dropped call per 100 calls could be many times more.

Found this where AT&T claims "the percentage of dropped calls throughout the network has fallen from 1.41% to 1.05% between December '08 and December '09."

Taking a completely unscientific approach, the average might be about 1.23% of calls get dropped. Assuming the 3GS is about average (maybe it is better), then the iPhone 4 having 1 more dropped call per 100 is almost a doubling of that rate.

Somehow people take Jobs statement that it is 'only' 1 more dropped call (maybe a little less) than the 3GS is an indicator of something positive? really?

You're still only talking about 1 out of 100 calls dropped. That isn't much, and given the number of comments I've seen about the iPhone4 being able to make calls where the 3GS simply can't even try I can believe that these extra drops are entirely where the older phone couldn't have been calling at all in the first place. So you're still making a mountain out of a molehill. If this failure rate is really a problem for you, return it, get a bumper, use the headphones and put it in your pocket, or hold it differently.

And as for the objections people have to being told it to hold it differently... wtf? We're told to hold all sorts of things differently all the time and I don't hear all the bellyaching about that. Hold your steering wheel at 10&2. Don't hold the hot end of the tool. Don't hold the barrel of the gun. If its a problem for you, return it or buy a bumper.
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post #27 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by iancass79 View Post

But, they did say it is an increased amount from the previous iPhone.

I am glad they said it was a noted increase. They admitted it was a problem so all of the people on here that said anyone affected were just whiners can hush up now.

I think apple did the right with the bumpers.

Because you ARE whiners.

Steve explained your problems, that they were statistically insignificant, and to keep you 'happy' you get a free piece of rubber to choke on. You're not getting a case because there's any outstanding problem with your phone... It's only your boo-boo feelings. Exactly what I and others have been saying from the beginning of this.


So STFU & go live your life. But somehow i expect you'll still be here looking for little things to bitch about. At least rubber is a good sound insulator.
post #28 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Programmer View Post

You're still only talking about 1 out of 100 calls dropped. ... So you're still making a mountain out of a molehill.

Remember that is an average figure. Some people don't experience any dropped calls. Others experience much more than this.
post #29 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by bspears View Post

You left out the part that said it is less than one call per 100. Hardly a significant rise in dropped call rate.

As other said, you can't make a statement about it's significance unless you know what you are comparing it to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iancass79 View Post

But, they did say it is an increased amount from the previous iPhone.

I am glad they said it was a noted increase. They admitted it was a problem so all of the people on here that said anyone affected were just whiners can hush up now.

I think apple did the right with the bumpers.

And even if it is only an insignificant increase, it's an increase, which is in contrast with Apple's PR that says the iPhone 4 antenna is superior than previous iPhones. It's kinda what I expected, the pros of the new antenna are negated by the cons. It's a wash. The unfortunate thing is Apple could have probably easily mitigated the con and truly achieved a phone with better overall reception.
post #30 of 41
Steve Jobs was 100% correct in saying that Nobody, No Company, Nothing is perfect. He couldn't say it, but I can: "Their a lot closer than most"

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post #31 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLBluesFan View Post

LOL, seriously?

3.5 calls per 100 is more than 3.0 calls per 100. "Drops more calls per 100" is perfectly valid, and the specifics are within the article. A bit too anal methinks.

Yes, but 3.5 per 100 is WAY too high. ATT averages, for all phones, about 1 or 2 percent dropped calls.

And the comparison Steve made was to the 3GS, which has WAY better performance than the "average" ATT phone. I bet the 3GS gets closer to .7 dropped calls per 100.

So adding 1% shows that it is still very low. 1.7%? No big deal.
post #32 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajv View Post

You sure about that? Let's assume the 3GS is already horrible with dropped calls and drops 1 in 25. If the iPhone 4 drops nearly 1 in 100 *more* than the 3GS, that would mean it drops 25% *more* calls. That's horrible! If the 3GS isn't so horrible and only drops 1 out of 100 now, that would mean iPhone 4 drops nearly *twice* the number of calls!

The 3GS probably drops very few calls - much less than 1%. So the total is still less than most phones.
post #33 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsm View Post

AAAHAAAAA!!!!!! Apple ADMITS the iP4 drops more calls than the 3GS!!!! They finally were forced came clean about the real truth surrounding horrendous dropped call rate they had tried so deparately to conceal lo these many weeks!

Yes, but the 3GS hardly drops any calls. So the 4 hardly drops any calls too.
post #34 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by P L View Post

He couldn't say it, but I can: "Their a lot closer than most"

That should be Apple's new Logo!
post #35 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by iancass79 View Post

But, they did say it is an increased amount from the previous iPhone.

I am glad they said it was a noted increase. They admitted it was a problem so all of the people on here that said anyone affected were just whiners can hush up now.

I think apple did the right with the bumpers.

This simply doesn't change the fact that there were and are a HUGE number of whiners and trolls - just that some of those commenting here were recognized by Apple has actually having issues - and were justifiably upset. And the number of commenters here that said

Quote:
anyone affected were just whiners

are by count, in the single to low double digits - those that said that those who are whining about it without actually experiencing it or do not even own the device should STFU were much higher, and perhaps justified in that comment line. Not that they were actually heeded, nor that they were able to stem the flow of diatribe and generalized (or specific) Apple hatred and calumny. Mr. Jobs freely admitted to Apple making mistakes.
post #36 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsm View Post

AAAHAAAAA!!!!!! Apple ADMITS the iP4 drops more calls than the 3GS!!!! They finally were forced came clean about the real truth surrounding horrendous dropped call rate they had tried so deparately to conceal lo these many weeks!

The Appleinsider headliners are laughable. Sensationalism for effect. Yellow Journalism.

Ya'll need to grow up.

Back atcha trollarama.
post #37 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihxo View Post

LOL and AAPL is green again.

Wait a minute. They say it's all bull then they admit the iphone4 drops more calls than iPhone 3 and now free cases until the 30th of September. Well that's a krock. So what about after September 30th, will they have a new rev 2???
post #38 of 41
The new antenna design was said to help against dropped calls but now it got even (slightly) worse. So I guess the new antenna placed at the outside of the device was only put there to get more space for a larger battery.
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post #39 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by bspears View Post

You left out the part that said it is less than one call per 100. Hardly a significant rise in dropped call rate.

sorry I realized my comment was old news - deleted
post #40 of 41
Quote:
Jason Snell: AT&T will compare iPhone 3GS drops versus iPhone 4. Additional calls dropped per 100 calls compared to iPhone 3GS. Even though we think the iPhone 4's antenna is superior, I must report to you that the iPhone 4 drops more calls per 100 than the iPhone 3GS. That's what the data says.
10:24
Jason Snell: But it's less than 1 call per 100 than the 3GS.

The above is the quote from the Macworld live feed from the event. The increase is less than one percent of the overall dropped call rate for the 3GS. Could it be statistically significant when looking at the rate of increase? Yes but we need more numbers to find out. Is it in any way realistically significant at less than a one percent increase in overall rate? NFW.
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