Apple posts videos of press conference, antenna performance, test chambers - Page 4

Except it's on the outside of the phone coming into contact with the skin. I really hate fanboys. They are their own worst enemy. They defend Apple even when in the wrong and as a result Apple tries to get away with more and more. Be a fan not a fanboy.

• Apple said they aren’t perfect. That destroys the trolls who think Apple should be.They tested it against other phones with different OSes. But will that be enough for the haters?
• The mentioned that there is no standard for bars. This is one area I’d like the FCC to be involved. Either make it standard. Or get rid of them altogether, instead list the best connection type.
• I like that he also stated they may be too liberal with their algorithm
• I found it funny that he took at a jab at Android OS battery efficiency being shite.
• I wonder what the return rate is for other phones if the average is above 6% and I (anecdotally) know a lot more people that have hated Palm and Android phones and returned them than people that have returned iPhones. ⅓ the return rates of the 3GS? Really? But I thought everyone was returning them. I wonder where the trolls are today.
• <1 additional cal per 100. New chips, no case, and huge upsurge in sales saturating AT&T’s network? I would think that number will be fairly lower than the 3GS numbers by the iPhone 5 comes out.
• I was wrong about them giving away cases in lieu of gift certificates, but since they are also including 3rd-party case makers that satisfied my theory that there would be backlash from case makers if they simply gave away Bumpers and only Bumpers.
• Reevaluate the free Bumper option in September? Interesting. If this was a “design flaw” they would have offered it up immediately for all iPhone 4s regardless of timeframe. The fact that they have cut off tells me they are doing this for “dramage” control to appease consumers. That’s it. Sure, they are working on a solution to reduce the attenuation to something more in line with (say) the Nexus One’s max 17dB, so long as it’s transparent, but that is what all decent companies do: tweak their products.

They aren’t meaningless. They are what every iPhone 4 user will be calling if they call Apple support. It starts immediately. Furthermore, you can call AppleCare to ask questions or express concerns even if you don’t own an Apple product.

•

http://www.apple.com/support/products/iphone.html

1) I guess youve conveniently chosen to ignore the reports that signal strength actually went up when touched at times, that its better than the 3GS or other phones in maintaining a signal, that phones encased in plastic or rubber still have a weak spot, or anything else that debunks your metal on skin is bad statement.

2) Have you noticed that the entire frame of the iPhone 4 is metal, yet its only certain situations in a certain area that is causing the issue. If your metal on skin is bad theory is correct it should cause it to fail touching it anywhere on the antenna.

You don't understand my point. Many people are aware of this issue. Many of these same people know Apple is aware of the issue. So why would the customer who is experiencing this issue call Applecare to report it, if they know Apple is already aware of it and is working on it. What good would it do ? So you really think every customer who has this issue is reporting it to Applecare ? So you think even 5% of the customers who have the issue are wasting their time calling Applecare about it ? Why would they call ? Apple knows about the issue, they have no fix at the time, and the customer knows Apple is aware of the issue. That's why stating the Applecare data is misleading. It makes it appear like only 0.55% of their customers have this issue. Which is probably very far from the true percentage. If this was an issue that wasn't in the media, or already acknowledged by Apple, then yes, the customer would call Applecare, because most customers would believe their phone is unique and has an issue.

Mmm... yours is one of the opinions that I am really interested in. By your prior discussion, here, you have gone the extra mile (and then some). Today, Apple didn't resolve, or even address your problem. You have gone through the replacement route at least 2 times (that you have posted here). You have, ultimately, returned your iPhone 4 and received credit for restocking fees, ETFs, and even an AppleCare purchase from AT&T.

What do you plan to do now?

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Gotcha, I thought you were saying AppleCare doesnt start right away. I have read that in other posts. Yeah, I said something similar in another thread. Surely they chose the best stat to make them look good, as they should, but its all marketing. We have to separate the meaningful data from the marketing spin, as usual. This isnt unique to Apple or unethical, Apple is simply better at it than most.

... what can I say?

I can make the same claim for Verizon-- only because I've never used them,


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... from one who wrote the book on trolling!

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At the very least Verizon has placed a cell tower on Apple property (as they do wherever they need a tower) and paid for the privilege!

Could mean more than that or not!

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Quite. I think the bumper option was a shrewd move. It will silence a lot of the critics. By August end if there are still people whining they'll have a harder time getting heard - 'Oh Shut up - get a free bumper / case'. If they need to they can extend the option but I think there will be no need. I think the whiners will have withered. Who knows, maybe they are planning a revision which they hope will be in place by then.

I think Apple did a pretty good job at restoring its image. A call back was a ridiculous option as is the feeble cry for them to apologise that pops up from time to time. Even though I thought they pumped the 'We Love Our Customers sooooo Much! but I do believe they care. And not just for the sake of the bottom line.

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You've been outmaneuvered by Steve Jobs. He has furnished the press/blogs/customers/investors with factual information that can be quantified, proved and believed.


Also, he has given anyone who has iPhone 4 issues two viable alternatives to resolve the issue: return/replace or encase-- both at no charge.

That solves the bulk of the user issues-- not all, but the bulk.

So, unless you can refute Steve's facts and acts, nobody is gonna' waste time listening to you (or me challenging you).

The feeding frenzy is mort-- checkmate!

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Not true. From a different article on this web site: "Apple on Friday shared a summary of dropped call data it received from wireless partner AT&T, which revealed that the iPhone 4 experiences more dropped calls than the iPhone 3GS, but at a rate less than one per 100 greater."


True.


Not true. Go back to the "Signal Attenuation Comparison in dB - Lower is Better" chart on anandtech.com. The iPhone 4 had the worst reception (compared to the 3GS and the Nexus One).


Again from Anandtech: " The Antenna is Improved

From my day of testing, I've determined that the iPhone 4 performs much better than the 3GS in situations where signal is very low, at -113 dBm (1 bar). Previously, dropping this low all but guaranteed that calls would drop, fail to be placed, and data would no longer be transacted at all. I can honestly say that I've never held onto so many calls and data simultaneously on 1 bar at -113 dBm as I have with the iPhone 4, so it's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS. The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use."

This is only a comparison between the iPhone 4 and 3GS - not "other smartphones."


Okay.


It is not true that the antenna is "performing better than all the other antennas out there." Reread anandtech again, this time a little more carefully.

I didn't write the book, dick

you're not taking into account people who are only experiencing it slightly, and not really seeing dropped calls like others are. Not to mention all the people who are lying. Also, don't forget to ignore people who bought fake iphones, so they aren't even allowed to complain about it.

Really, when you think of it like that, the number is probably less than a few dozen.

1) "Best reception" doesn’t equate to the "least attenuation with a death grip”.

2) Why don’t you post the part that shows it’s worse in all areas. I recall reading that it did perform better in certain areas than all the others they tested.

3) The iPhone 4 clearly has some benefits from the antenna design used. Even AnandTech listed they even got the bars to go up with WiFi and with cellular by gripping it, and noted that RF is a strange beast (or something to that effect). The result is there is good and bad, but it’s mostly good for most people most of the time.

4) To quote Gruber, “the iPhone 4 antenna is better overall, but has a worse weakness”.

Only with a bumper on, and only compared to the iPhone 3GS. Go back and reread the test. There is no doubt the iPhone 4 antenna has advantages over the 3GS antenna. But only if properly shielded (bumper) from the human hand.

Did you read my post? Here's what I wrote: "From a different article on this web site: 'Apple on Friday shared a summary of dropped call data it received from wireless partner AT&T, which revealed that the iPhone 4 experiences more dropped calls than the iPhone 3GS, but at a rate less than one per 100 greater.'"




I also had this in my post: "'The Antenna is Improved - From my day of testing, I've determined that the iPhone 4 performs much better than the 3GS in situations where signal is very low, at -113 dBm (1 bar). Previously, dropping this low all but guaranteed that calls would drop, fail to be placed, and data would no longer be transacted at all. I can honestly say that I've never held onto so many calls and data simultaneously on 1 bar at -113 dBm as I have with the iPhone 4, so it's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS. The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.'"

It did sometimes perform better than the 3GS. My point was that the original poster asserted that this was a comparison between "other smartphones." That is not the case. This was only a comparison between the iPhone 4 and the iPhone 3GS. The Droid Incredible, the Nexus One, and a host of other smartphones were not part of this comparison.


Here's the quote from anandtech: "With my bumper case on, I made it further into dead zones than ever before, and into marginal areas that would always drop calls without any problems at all. It's amazing really to experience the difference in sensitivity the iPhone 4 brings compared to the 3GS, and issues from holding the phone aside, reception is absolutely definitely improved. I felt like I was going places no iPhone had ever gone before. There's no doubt in my mind this iPhone gets the best cellular reception yet, even though measured signal is lower than the 3GS."

You're right it is better with the qualification that he had a bumper case on. Without, I can't say. Again, my main problem with the original poster was that he was characterizing these claims as compared to all smartphones. That is not the case.

Okay, name an app that provides the raw signal strength information that Field Test Mode does in every version of iPhone OS previous to iOS 4 and in competing Android OS phones.
You're right, from Apple's perspective, the "average user" no longer needs this information, because it would expose the iPhone 4's extreme signal attenuation behavior to a wide audience--beyond the AnandTech and Consumer Reports labs and into the hands of anyone anywhere any time. I'm confident Apple won't restore Field Test Mode to iOS 4 because the results would be totally embarrassing and shareholders would get upset. Honesty and openness only go so far, you know? Nevertheless, this unwillingness of Apple to completely own up to its design decisions makes me sick.

I’m only going to reply to the first section because your posts are tedious and basically cover the same thing.


He made a comment on reception, which AnandTech (and many others) also noted with the iPhone 4, but you replied with a quote about dropped call data, thus implying that more dropped calls means the reception is worse. Do you not see how these things are not necessarily related or that you can’t drop a call unless you can first connect to a call?

Thats not remotely true. There are plenty of tech writers and bloggers who say that the iPhone 4 gets them reception where they previously had none, with no case.

Yes, true. If they avoid touching the seam. The issue, the flaw. The seam that is easily touched by naturally holding the phone.

Ah, but how was the phone being held?

[QUOTE=Bagman;1677216]Spin control - Jobs is good at it. He said nothing that anyone hadn't already known, except to deny any prior knowledge of the problem, and promised nothing other than they were going to continue working to make the antenna issue less of an issue - and you get a free case (sorry, we can't take a hit on our bumper gross margins), so you get a nifty 50 cent case for your trouble.

They are obviously working on version 2 of the iP4, and I will wait until there is a hint of when it will arrive, because I got tired of dropping downloads all the time, which didn't happen in my 3G - ever. Yes, you infantile posters may label me a whiner, but I haven't had that argument since I was in 6th grade, so save your breath. I own a large amount of Apple stock, so it does me no good to continue to look on Jobs with a bit of skepticism, but he is, after all, a master, and you have to tip your cap to him, even if you can read between the lines just fine.[/QUOTE


Please sell your stock...

My posts cover the same thing because posters on this forum keep making the same false claims about the iPhone 4 antenna. If you think they are tedious, you can skip them.

On the 2nd part of your post, there is a relationship between reception and dropped calls. By definition, dropping a call means you lost reception. The anandtech claim that reception was better with the iPhone 4 was only true if he had a bumper on. As I said before, he did not say how good his reception was without the bumper. Since I do not own an iPhone 4, I cannot test that either.

Unless you have something significant to add to this discussion, I suggest we end it here.

I have great reception with the iphone 4 works in several dead spots that the 3gs and 3g would not work. also works in my office building where vzw had to install special equipment for bb to work..

So yes I love the phone ..

Media needs to sell papers and Apple is taking papers away with smart phones and eazy access to websites ..

Then quote those other "tech writers." That may very well be true. But the discussion was about what anandtech said. You and plenty of others on this forum like to selectively quote from the review when it suits you. Here (for like the 5th time) is what that review said:

With my bumper case on, I made it further into dead zones than ever before, and into marginal areas that would always drop calls without any problems at all.

What ski1 wrote was exactly true. Either quote the review correctly or find someone else who agrees with you that you can parrot.

Spot on. There are two types of whiners; those that were put up to it or had a motive to FUD AAPL and those that now feel stupid and won't let go.

These bloggers should be ashamed of themselves. How do they sleep at night?

But how hard is it to work around that? The issue, the flaw. It seems so trivial. Not ideal from a new 'masterpiece' but if that is what it is and you (as in one) love it seems like such a non issue to beat. I hate cases and bumpers but I still intend to shield the 'offending area' if it proves troublesome. But I sure as hell wont blog about or even denounce Apple on these forums. That'll just take too long. Fixing is trivial, isn't it?

They used ATT's brand new recommendations. Steve told us that in his open letter.

No. They said that they were stunned to discover it. I believe it - it would have stunned me too!

Keep your shirt on and stop being so nasty.

All I meant was that the average user has no need for a "field test mode" for their phone, it's patently obvious that this is true. It's a scale in "decibels" (which even a smart person will get confused with sound decibels), and it's in negative numbers. The average person has no idea about negative numbers. Shocking but true. They wouldn't understand that -51 is larger than -121, and basically wouldn't "get" what they are looking at.

I actually agree that field test mode is handy and that it would be nice if you could flip it on with a setting switch, but Apple generally "doesn't do settings." At least they don't like to give people a lot of confusing options.

Field test mode is something geeks who comment on forums want. It's not something that the average user wants. If they return it to the iPhone it will just be as a sop to al the complaining going on right now. It serves no useful purpose to have it there when 99% or more of the customers won't use it or understand it.

Those guys are totally nuts. That makes no sense at all. They can't recommend it because they don't know what will happen at some tome in the future? Then they can't recommend ANYTHING!!!!

Hypocrites!

Yep. All other phones drop more bars.

And we all know that the other phones do NOT have accurate bars like the iPhone, so those other phones probably have even worse reception!

Seems awfully coincidental that Apple removed the field test mode at the same time of the iPhone 4 release. After 3 years. Too coincidental in my opinion.

Well, almost. It drops a tiny bit more than the 3GS. So the real cat is that it drops less calls than any other phone ever has in all of history, (except for one).

Actually, that is Apple's proprietary information. Consumers should not have access to it. Unlikely that there will be any app for it.

No offence but I find all this tiresome.

I don't have the energy to respond to this nonsense so I'll just say ...

- "dropped calls" is not the same as reception

- I think you're being overly pedantic about your response to my claims. Yes the comparison was to the 3Gs but the 3Gs is better than the rest already.

In any case this whole debate is just so incredibly stupid that I can't stand it any more.

Bottom line: iPhone 4 is the best phone on the market today by a huge margin in almost every way success and superiority can be measured. This is just a fact no matter what anyone says. The antenna is fantastic, it gets and keeps calls at lower signal readings than any other phone. As long as you keep your fingers off the antenna, it drops less calls than any other phone. The reception is better, and the range at which it operates is larger than the other phones.

I can't wait to get one.

=============

On another note (not in reply to the quote above):

People should just get used to the fact that Apple won this round and get on with their lives. Those that believe that Apple is somehow lying or dissembling about the facts they presented today are basically nutcases. One has to believe that they all got up there and lied, and that's just not credible at all. The CEO and all the top guys (who have a lawsuit against them on the issue no less), are going to get up on stage and lie about this stuff? Seriously?

I like this quote from Jobs to a reporter after the conference, I think it really illustrates what happened here:

(talking about the tech bloggers) ... "In search of eyeballs, people dont care what they leave in their wake. in 34 years havent we earned trust and get benefit of the doubt? I am not saying we are not at fault. We are not just innocents in this."

This really sums it up for me. Apple has almost never done the kind of nefarious junk that other companies do every day, yet they get pilloried in the press over and over again. How many times does the tech press have to ascribe nasty motives to Apple and Jobs and be proven totally wrong, before they actually give these guys the benefit of the doubt once or twice?

Apple has always been a great company IMO. Why do we always (well not me but most folks), seem to assume they are lying, conniving, money-grubbing egomaniacs? There has never been any evidence that Apple is like that or that Steve jobs is like that. So why do all the tech bloggers seem to jump to that conclusion? Why do half the posters on this forum immediately look to the dark side of every comment out of Cupertino?

I say we should give these hard-working geniuses the benefit of the doubt and enjoy the wonderful phone that three years ago you wouldn't even have dreamed of. Maybe (shock!) even send Steve Jobs a thank you card once in a while.

I have a case on my iPhone 4. The first case I bought for a phone. Because I had many dropped calls on my iPhone 4. I had more dropped calls on my iPhone 4 in a few days then I had in 2 years of owning a iPhone 3G & 3GS. And I don't want to consciously always have to think about how to hold the phone differently then what comes naturally. I also used the speedtest.app and was shocked to see how dramatic the download/upload speed changes if I touched the seam in less then idea reception areas. The case fixes the issue, no doubt. And actually I don't mind the case now. I just don't like the way Apple is spinning and dancing around the issue. I think they should be more forthcoming of the issue, and stop pointing fingers at other phones. Because other phones do not have the issue as bad as the iPhone 4. Nor do the other phones have the critical spot in an area so easily touched by naturally holding the phone.

Apple bragged about how much testing they used when developing the iPhone 4. I'm surprised they didn't see this issue a long time ago with all that testing. Seems like they try to have it both ways. They say they do extensive testing in high tech labs, but yet they say they didn't see this issue.

Wow ..... did any one realize Apple not only teaching us all about radio antenna this website certainly teaches all webbies how good new HTML5 can out shine FLASH is a flash ..... well done Apple!

Dawn of the old web standards and usher in the new great 5....

Cheers

Cheers


Cheers