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Apple posts videos of press conference, antenna performance, test chambers - Page 5

post #161 of 284
7/16/10 at 8:42pm
Well I'm glad Steve Jobs mentioned the July 30 release for Australia but with 13 days to go still no announcement on the local price. I wonder if Apple Australia will factor in the cost of a bumper. We'll never know.
Many years ago I worked at Sydney TV broadcaster; TCN Channel 9. I remember talking to an engineer who said that beyond the science, dealing with radio frequencies is an art. I totally agree with the view that "mobile" phones are not perfectly reliable; it's just what level of reliability is important to the individual. My (now sold) old iPhone 3G was very satisfactory on the connectivity side and fantastic otherwise. I love it!
The problem as I understand it (please correct me if I'm wrong here) is not due to the obstructing effect of a hand as demonstrated with the other brand phones, but the electrical short that occurs when the "beautiful" gap between antennas is bridged. If it's a shorting problem then it's an amazing outcome considering all those 18 PhD engineers Apple has.
One thing I'm unclear on is the 30 day return policy. Is it 30 days from today or more likely 30 days from original purchase? If it's from original purchase it doesnt leave much time for you early adopters and how long will the policy be in force?
Apple has done the correct thing in offering the cases and full refunds. It was the least they could do and the most they should do. I still intend to get my black iPhone 4, on day one if possible, because I love the design and functionality. The only thing that may make me buy the likes of the Samsung Galaxy S or even the iPhone 3Gs would be a further release delay or excessive price. The local price put me off the iPad by AU$100 and I really-really wanted one too!
Finally, thanks to all you other contributors to these forums. As a low income earner it's a big and important purchase for me and the discussion helps in making an informed decision.
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post #162 of 284
7/16/10 at 8:45pm
Well I won't bother you anymore, professor. Thank you for deigning to answer me in the first place. BTW, lucky you have solipsism there to tell you what to say, huh?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

No offence but I find all this tiresome.

I don't have the energy to respond to this nonsense so I'll just say ...

- "dropped calls" is not the same as reception

- I think you're being overly pedantic about your response to my claims. Yes the comparison was to the 3Gs but the 3Gs is better than the rest already.

In any case this whole debate is just so incredibly stupid that I can't stand it any more.

Bottom line: iPhone 4 is the best phone on the market today by a huge margin in almost every way success and superiority can be measured. This is just a fact no matter what anyone says. The antenna is fantastic, it gets and keeps calls at lower signal readings than any other phone. As long as you keep your fingers off the antenna, it drops less calls than any other phone. The reception is better, and the range at which it operates is larger than the other phones.

I can't wait to get one.

=============

On another note (not in reply to the quote above):

People should just get used to the fact that Apple won this round and get on with their lives. Those that believe that Apple is somehow lying or dissembling about the facts they presented today are basically nutcases. One has to believe that they all got up there and lied, and that's just not credible at all. The CEO and all the top guys (who have a lawsuit against them on the issue no less), are going to get up on stage and lie about this stuff? Seriously?

I like this quote from Jobs to a reporter after the conference, I think it really illustrates what happened here:

(talking about the tech bloggers) ... "In search of eyeballs, people dont care what they leave in their wake. in 34 years havent we earned trust and get benefit of the doubt? I am not saying we are not at fault. We are not just innocents in this."

This really sums it up for me. Apple has almost never done the kind of nefarious junk that other companies do every day, yet they get pilloried in the press over and over again. How many times does the tech press have to ascribe nasty motives to Apple and Jobs and be proven totally wrong, before they actually give these guys the benefit of the doubt once or twice?

Apple has always been a great company IMO. Why do we always (well not me but most folks), seem to assume they are lying, conniving, money-grubbing egomaniacs? There has never been any evidence that Apple is like that or that Steve jobs is like that. So why do all the tech bloggers seem to jump to that conclusion? Why do half the posters on this forum immediately look to the dark side of every comment out of Cupertino?

I say we should give these hard-working geniuses the benefit of the doubt and enjoy the wonderful phone that three years ago you wouldn't even have dreamed of. Maybe (shock!) even send Steve Jobs a thank you card once in a while.
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post #163 of 284
7/16/10 at 8:46pm
Apple gave the simplest and best answers they could:

1) We acknowledge a problem.
2) We offer you something that solves it -- free bumper
3) Still not satisfied with 1 or 2? Return for full refund. Go find yourself something you like.

So the complainers should do just that: not happy with their solution get something else and be happy.

I love iPhone 4 and wouldn't trade it in for nothing.
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post #164 of 284
7/16/10 at 8:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

The conference if far from a slam dunk because the only press Apple is getting on the iPhone at this point is negative press. I am very good with logic.

Really? The press I'm seeing, from reputable outlets at least, is either swinging slightly positive or at least neutral (while they try to save some face by at least not pulling an abrupt reverse CR maneuver, Even CR is trying to avoid another immediate flip flop).

I think the irrational madness is essentially over, and only the rabid anti-Apple fanatics (Gizmodo and some other anti-Apple blogs, the fandroids and other trolls on AI and elsewhere) will be beating the drum on this, trying desperately to keep it alive, within a day or two. And, even they will soon realize that they've lost all credibility and will crawl back into their basements.
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post #165 of 284
7/16/10 at 9:01pm
You can tell Steve is slightly peeved about this whole thing. And rightly so when you look at the data. The press have been reporting things out of context. Reporters have an undeserved reputation for intelligence, and there's not enough editorial oversight on some of these web sites.
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post #166 of 284
7/16/10 at 9:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by battlescarred1 View Post

1 dropped call per 100. ...

<1

For those who aren't mathematically inclined, that little wedge shaped thing in front of the 1 means "less than", less than 1, which in this case may be any number between 0 and 1, not inclusive, so maybe 0.99999, or maybe 0.00001, or maybe somewhere in between.

So, for the sake of accuracy, that's <1 additional dropped call per 100 than the 3GS at this period following its release, with no data available to compare to other smartphones, some of which might do better, some worse.
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post #167 of 284
7/16/10 at 9:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

I have a case on my iPhone 4. The first case I bought for a phone. Because I had many dropped calls on my iPhone 4. I had more dropped calls on my iPhone 4 in a few days then I had in 2 years of owning a iPhone 3G & 3GS. And I don't want to consciously always have to think about how to hold the phone differently then what comes naturally. I also used the speedtest.app and was shocked to see how dramatic the download/upload speed changes if I touched the seam in less then idea reception areas. The case fixes the issue, no doubt. And actually I don't mind the case now. I just don't like the way Apple is spinning and dancing around the issue. I think they should be more forthcoming of the issue, and stop pointing fingers at other phones. Because other phones do not have the issue as bad as the iPhone 4. Nor do the other phones have the critical spot in an area so easily touched by naturally holding the phone.

The only spinning and dancing going on is by people like you who hope to be able to continue to spin this against Apple. They laid out the facts and the mainstream press realize they were played like fools by a bunch of bloggers and people like you who want to make this a big thing, even though it isn't.

Quote:
Apple bragged about how much testing they used when developing the iPhone 4. I'm surprised they didn't see this issue a long time ago with all that testing. Seems like they try to have it both ways. They say they do extensive testing in high tech labs, but yet they say they didn't see this issue.

You must never have been involved in the development and testing of anything if this somehow seems contradictory to you.
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post #168 of 284
7/16/10 at 9:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

The only spinning and dancing going on is by people like you who hope to be able to continue to spin this against Apple. They laid out the facts and the mainstream press realize they were played like fools by a bunch of bloggers and people like you who want to make this a big thing, even though it isn't.

Well, that's you opinion. In my opinion, there was a lot of spinning, finger pointing, and whining from Apple. We will see how this plays out in the media and by Apple's customers. Your opinion is not a fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

You must never have been involved in the development and testing of anything if this somehow seems contradictory to you.

I'm a software developer so I'm familiar with development and testing. But I don't go around bragging and patting myself on the back on how much thorough high tech testing we do, in the same breath I'm admitting what I (and many people) consider a pretty big flaw. Then downplay the flaw, and produce numbers that don't accurately reflect the true amount of people affected by the flaw.
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post #169 of 284
7/16/10 at 9:20pm
APPLE offered a solution.(a FREE CASE)
APPLE offered a refund for those not happy with the solution

Everyone now has 2 alternatives. For those that are still not satisfied the story is history.
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post #170 of 284
7/16/10 at 9:37pm
Samsung Vibrant And Captivate Suffer 'Death Grip' Too

The Samsung Vibrant recently launched on T-Mobile's network. Guess what, it (and its Captivate cousin) suffer from the same "death grip" issue the iPhone 4 does.

By Eric Zeman, InformationWeek
July 16, 2010
URL: http://www.informationweek.com/story...leID=225900042

Samsung held a huge launch event for its Galaxy S line of Android handsets in New York City a few weeks ago. During the event, Samsung's media relations staff was sure to take some pot shots at the iPhone 4, and told me, "You can hold the Galaxy S any way you want."

Um, not true.

I have both a Samsung Vibrant and Captivate on hand for testing purposes. In both phones, the internal antenna is apparently located on the back of the phone, towards the very bottom edge. When gripped around the bottom of the phone (with either hand) the signal strength drops almost immediately. The Vibrant went from three bars to zero bars in about five seconds, and the Captivate went from four bars to zero bars in about six seconds. When I let go, the signal returns immediately.

I replicated a similar signal drop with the Microsoft KIN devices a couple of weeks ago. I turned the KIN on, waited for it to connect to Verizon's network and register four bars of service. I then covered it up with both hands. Guess what happened? The signal dropped to two bars.

I don't hear KIN and Samsung Vibrant customers screaming about the "death grip" problem.

What these examples illustrate is how silly and overblown the reaction to the iPhone 4's "death grip" antenna problem really is. Many of the phones I review come with stickers on them. Those stickers often warn users of certain things. One of the stickers I've seen on many phones is one which warns users to avoid touching certain parts of the cell phone in order to not block the antenna. Covering the antenna of just about any cell phone made can result in a drop in signal strength.

Even when the Vibrant and Captivate lost signal strength, neither phone dropped a call, and I was still able to send text messages and surf the mobile web. With the iPhone 4, I never dropped a call or lost a data connection when it was suffering from the "death grip" phenomenon, either.

What's the bottom line here? Cell phones are complicated and complex devices. They have lots of radios (cellular, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, GPS), lots of antennas, and rely on innumerable external factors to work correctly. How far away is the nearest cell tower, is it over a hill, what's standing in the way, are you in a building, are you in an area with overlapping coverage, are you in a moving vehicle, and (yes) how are you holding it? Expecting perfect performance and service 100% of the time is simply not realistic.

I am in no way excusing Apple's behavior and response to this particular issue (so far). I am simply pointing out that Apple isn't the only company on earth to make a phone that experiences signal attenuation when the antenna is obscured.

Hopefully Apple will set everything straight this afternoon so we can all forget about it and move on.

(By the way, Samsung, I have some crow for you to eat.)
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post #171 of 284
7/16/10 at 10:55pm
I just saw a headline in a major newspaper where I live "Apple CEO admits screw up, offers free cases." That is absolutely not what happened, he pointed out it was an industry-wide problem.

So we have information presented out of context, in a deliberately misleading way, for dramatic effect, in a major paper.

In going for these dramatic effects over the truth, the media these days is nothing more than another branch of the entertainment industry, not something separate and serious.
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post #172 of 284
7/16/10 at 11:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I just saw a headline in a major newspaper where I live "Apple CEO admits screw up, offers free cases." That is absolutely not what happened, he pointed out it was an industry-wide problem.

So we have information presented out of context, in a deliberately misleading way, for dramatic effect, in a major paper.

In going for these dramatic effects over the truth, the media these days is nothing more than another branch of the entertainment industry, not something separate and serious.

That Was Exactly What Happened!

“We do this because we love our users, and if we screw up, we pick ourselves up and we try harder,” Jobs said...

As very clearly expressed by RIM's CEOs, there really was no need to draw other smartphone manufacturers into to a situation of Apple's own making:

"Apple's attempt to draw RIM into Apple's self-made debacle is unacceptable. Apple's claims about RIM products appear to be deliberate attempts to distort the public's understanding of an antenna design issue and to deflect attention from Apple's difficult situation. RIM is a global leader in antenna design and has been successfully designing industry-leading wireless data products with efficient and effective radio performance for over 20 years. During that time, RIM has avoided designs like the one Apple used in the iPhone 4 and instead has used innovative designs which reduce the risk for dropped calls, especially in areas of lower coverage. One thing is for certain, RIM's customers don't need to use a case for their BlackBerry smartphone to maintain proper connectivity. Apple clearly made certain design decisions and it should take responsibility for these decisions rather than trying to draw RIM and others into a situation that relates specifically to Apple." - Mike Lazaridis and Jim Balsillie
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #173 of 284
7/17/10 at 12:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Looks like the boys have a lot of fun with those facilities.

All we consumers need for our own testing is to have Field Test Mode restored in the next iOS 4 update.

I second that.
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post #174 of 284
7/17/10 at 12:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Keep your shirt on and stop being so nasty.

Nasty is as nasty does, and Apple is being so very nasty these days. Removing Field Test Mode is part of it. If 99% of users don't need it, why did Apple include FTM in every previous version of iPhone OS?

Quote:
All I meant was that the average user has no need for a "field test mode" for their phone, it's patently obvious that this is true.

The average user actually does need FTM, because everyone wants the best for their money. FTM helps people discover what's best, even if the knowledge comes indirectly from others who know how to use FTM. FTM costs Apple next to nothing to include. Field Test Mode in iOS4 would help quantify signal strength and attenuation so easily under a wide variety of conditions. Why wouldn't the average user want that capability to be available?
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post #175 of 284
7/17/10 at 12:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Mmm... yours is one of the opinions that I am really interested in. By your prior discussion, here, you have gone the extra mile (and then some). Today, Apple didn't resolve, or even address your problem. You have gone through the replacement route at least 2 times (that you have posted here). You have, ultimately, returned your iPhone 4 and received credit for restocking fees, ETFs, and even an AppleCare purchase from AT&T.

What do you plan to do now?

.

Thanks for your comments. I have grown tired of other infantile comments that I haven't heard since my playground days many decades ago.

First of all, for anyone who may be interested, I have virtually all my IRA and individual account money in Apple stock, so show me anyone else who is making critical comments against Apple, as I am, and I would believe their thoughts over anyone who professes to have no financial interest - why in God's name would I take the time to make the comments I've made against this phone, when I loved every aspect of it immensely, except for the reception issue, which was an ultimate deal-breaker for me, when my portfolio stood to drop so much (no, I'm not shorting or leveraged at all - am strictly long). I don't like the feel of bumpers or cases, and never had to use them before on my 3G or 3GS, so don't tell me this is a fix - this sidesteps the issue.

After getting my iP4 on June 23rd, and immediately activating it on ATT, I began to notice the problem, as I always hold the phone in my left hand, to better type on the screen with my right. I got tired of watching my downloads stop completely, so many times, in so many different areas of the city, that I went down to Apple to ask why. The Apple guy blew me off, said he couldn't replicate the issue, so I was out of luck, and sent me back to ATT. Going one block away from the Apple store was all it took to replicate the problem again, getting it to drop data downloading again. This indicated to me that you won't see anyone complaining about dropped data or calls in an Apple store (signal repeaters take care of that, so I'm told) and in returning to the ATT store, I had the self same experience, but only had to go 50 yards away from the ATT store to get it to drop signal integrity again. The folks at ATT had already heard of the problem, as many had already dropped in to complain (this was in the first week after introduction).

So, I have to take issue with anyone who says that, since only .55% of Apple Care complaints have been filed, it is a small problem - this is utter and spurious nonsense. I have been involved with University research for over 20 years, am published, and know how controlled studies are tested and reported. This nonsensical "factoid" from Jobs says nothing about the true rate of the problem, and doesn't even approach non-parametric statistical testing standards (for small samples). I would surmise this was the only data he could lay his hands on, and doubt my encounter at Apple was even recorded, since I didn't have an appointment at the Genius Bar. ATT certainly would be getting the most complaints, but I suppose they don't keep track either, or, at least, Jobs was told to say nothing about ATT's experience by his lawyers.

My own little experiments (non-statistical of course) with 2 other iP4 phones (owned by my patients) gave me identical attenuation results and stopped downloading each time it was tried (at least in my office, which showed a relatively strong cell tower strength of 5 bars of strength with 4.0 software with each iP4 phone, and shows 4 bars now with my 3Gs on 4.0.1 software under the new algorithms. Only had to touch the dreaded "3G spot" lightly in all cases, to get each iP4 phone to stop downloading; the dreaded death grip wasn't necessary.

I had a lengthy discussion with a fellow passenger on the plane to Denver July 2nd. He was, by sheer coincidence, the head sales representative of Bayer International film and coatings division. He has been in the business for over 10 years. He agreed with me that maybe one of their urethane industrial coatings may solve the problem - it is one of the toughest polymer coatings available, and is likely to provide protection and insulation properties - just what you would want. I told him he probably should send an email to Jobs, but I suspect that Apple engineers have already deduced this as a potential option.

Anyhow, after much deliberation, I decided that, while I LOVE the iP4 phone in every way possible, I chose not to tolerate the reception issue, which was never a problem compared to my 3G and 3GS, I decided that the engineers must be working on a fix that involves the antenna (Jobs even let a phrase slip that they may decide to solve the problem by moving the problem out of the way - or words to that effect). This suggest to me that, if I wait a little longer to re-purchase the phone, they will make an antenna adjustment, perhaps move the area of maximum attenuation to the middle of the bottom of the phone (just guessing, since they can't move it to the side or top, so I'm told, due to FCC requirements). I honestly don't believe this is solvable with a software fix, unless you can somehow shift sensitivity to other areas of the antenna to compensate, utilizing software alone (wild-ass guess here). Anyhow, that's my hope for a fix I can live with.

Yes, I went through a lot of trouble getting the iP4, selling my 3G on ebay, returning my iP4, and buying a 3Gs on ebay. Did I do the right thing - for me YES, and let the folks who disagree with my decision respect my right to make my own decision. I tried to approach the problem first with disbelief, then with studied analysis, I believe I have approached it in a reasoned, methodical manner, and, even though I love the phone, I will not be repurchasing this first version of the iP4 unless I give up hope that Apple will provide a hardware fix (once again folks, save the ranting about me being a whiner, crybaby, or whatever, and save your sanctimonious preaching about me using a bumper or case to solve the problem. While I agree that the iP4 may indeed be a better phone all around than the 3G and 3GS, for my type of activity, it didn't quite fill the bill, and the 3Gs is OK (I will miss the screen sharpness, the photo and video capabilities, but most of my activities on the iPhone involve internet surfing, plane vanilla data downloading, and I will not use a bumper or case for a variety of reasons - I loved the Rolex example someone gave earlier - why would I put a beautiful Rolex in a plastic or rubber bumper?

Do I love Apple's products - you bet! do I recommend all of their products - blindly and without reservation - no way. Each to their own, and I respect the ability of us all to agree to disagree on many things. I respect the rational dialogue and discourse, but am intolerant of personal affronts and attacks on my integrity. I am neither a troll nor a fanboi, and will remain as objective as I can on all matters related to my association with Apple products and management.

So.... I don't perceive that I have a problem that should give anyone heartburn, but I do have the facts before me that prompted my decision - please save the recriminations, life it too short, and this is not the forum for schoolyard intolerance.
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post #176 of 284
7/17/10 at 12:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

That Was Exactly What Happened!

No, it's a case of taking a single quote of out context. The *overall message* he was delivering was that it is an industry-wide problem, and tests with other high quality phones, and helpdesk statistics, and call-drop statistics prove the iPhone 4 is just like any other phone.
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post #177 of 284
7/17/10 at 2:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by battlescarred1 View Post

1 dropped call per 100. There are billions of calls a day. That's a lot of dropped calls! \

Its not that. Its actually less then one MORE dropped call per 100 than the 3GS. They didn't publish how many dropped call per 100 the 3GS has. It could be 1 or it could be 50. I don't know if this figure has been published anywhere before.

So it could be anywhere from 1% of calls up to 99% of calls are dropped but I guess we will never know. We also have no way of comparing this to the AT & T average on dropped calls.

The whole point was that the iPhone 4 is barely worse than the 3GS for dropping calls.
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post #178 of 284
7/17/10 at 2:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagman View Post

Thanks for your comments. I have grown tired of other infantile comments that I haven't heard since my playground days many decades ago.

First of all, for anyone who may be interested, I have virtually all my IRA and individual account money in Apple stock, so show me anyone else who is making critical comments against Apple, as I am, and I would believe their thoughts over anyone who professes to have no financial interest - why in God's name would I take the time to make the comments I've made against this phone, when I loved every aspect of it immensely, except for the reception issue, which was an ultimate deal-breaker for me, when my portfolio stood to drop so much (no, I'm not shorting or leveraged at all - am strictly long). I don't like the feel of bumpers or cases, and never had to use them before on my 3G or 3GS, so don't tell me this is a fix - this sidesteps the issue.

After getting my iP4 on June 23rd, and immediately activating it on ATT, I began to notice the problem, as I always hold the phone in my left hand, to better type on the screen with my right. I got tired of watching my downloads stop completely, so many times, in so many different areas of the city, that I went down to Apple to ask why. The Apple guy blew me off, said he couldn't replicate the issue, so I was out of luck, and sent me back to ATT. Going one block away from the Apple store was all it took to replicate the problem again, getting it to drop data downloading again. This indicated to me that you won't see anyone complaining about dropped data or calls in an Apple store (signal repeaters take care of that, so I'm told) and in returning to the ATT store, I had the self same experience, but only had to go 50 yards away from the ATT store to get it to drop signal integrity again. The folks at ATT had already heard of the problem, as many had already dropped in to complain (this was in the first week after introduction).

So, I have to take issue with anyone who says that, since only .55% of Apple Care complaints have been filed, it is a small problem - this is utter and spurious nonsense. I have been involved with University research for over 20 years, am published, and know how controlled studies are tested and reported. This nonsensical "factoid" from Jobs says nothing about the true rate of the problem, and doesn't even approach non-parametric statistical testing standards (for small samples). I would surmise this was the only data he could lay his hands on, and doubt my encounter at Apple was even recorded, since I didn't have an appointment at the Genius Bar. ATT certainly would be getting the most complaints, but I suppose they don't keep track either, or, at least, Jobs was told to say nothing about ATT's experience by his lawyers.

My own little experiments (non-statistical of course) with 2 other iP4 phones (owned by my patients) gave me identical attenuation results and stopped downloading each time it was tried (at least in my office, which showed a relatively strong cell tower strength of 5 bars of strength with 4.0 software with each iP4 phone, and shows 4 bars now with my 3Gs on 4.0.1 software under the new algorithms. Only had to touch the dreaded "3G spot" lightly in all cases, to get each iP4 phone to stop downloading; the dreaded death grip wasn't necessary.

I had a lengthy discussion with a fellow passenger on the plane to Denver July 2nd. He was, by sheer coincidence, the head sales representative of Bayer International film and coatings division. He has been in the business for over 10 years. He agreed with me that maybe one of their urethane industrial coatings may solve the problem - it is one of the toughest polymer coatings available, and is likely to provide protection and insulation properties - just what you would want. I told him he probably should send an email to Jobs, but I suspect that Apple engineers have already deduced this as a potential option.

Anyhow, after much deliberation, I decided that, while I LOVE the iP4 phone in every way possible, I chose not to tolerate the reception issue, which was never a problem compared to my 3G and 3GS, I decided that the engineers must be working on a fix that involves the antenna (Jobs even let a phrase slip that they may decide to solve the problem by moving the problem out of the way - or words to that effect). This suggest to me that, if I wait a little longer to re-purchase the phone, they will make an antenna adjustment, perhaps move the area of maximum attenuation to the middle of the bottom of the phone (just guessing, since they can't move it to the side or top, so I'm told, due to FCC requirements). I honestly don't believe this is solvable with a software fix, unless you can somehow shift sensitivity to other areas of the antenna to compensate, utilizing software alone (wild-ass guess here). Anyhow, that's my hope for a fix I can live with.

Yes, I went through a lot of trouble getting the iP4, selling my 3G on ebay, returning my iP4, and buying a 3Gs on ebay. Did I do the right thing - for me YES, and let the folks who disagree with my decision respect my right to make my own decision. I tried to approach the problem first with disbelief, then with studied analysis, I believe I have approached it in a reasoned, methodical manner, and, even though I love the phone, I will not be repurchasing this first version of the iP4 unless I give up hope that Apple will provide a hardware fix (once again folks, save the ranting about me being a whiner, crybaby, or whatever, and save your sanctimonious preaching about me using a bumper or case to solve the problem. While I agree that the iP4 may indeed be a better phone all around than the 3G and 3GS, for my type of activity, it didn't quite fill the bill, and the 3Gs is OK (I will miss the screen sharpness, the photo and video capabilities, but most of my activities on the iPhone involve internet surfing, plane vanilla data downloading, and I will not use a bumper or case for a variety of reasons - I loved the Rolex example someone gave earlier - why would I put a beautiful Rolex in a plastic or rubber bumper?

Do I love Apple's products - you bet! do I recommend all of their products - blindly and without reservation - no way. Each to their own, and I respect the ability of us all to agree to disagree on many things. I respect the rational dialogue and discourse, but am intolerant of personal affronts and attacks on my integrity. I am neither a troll nor a fanboi, and will remain as objective as I can on all matters related to my association with Apple products and management.

So.... I don't perceive that I have a problem that should give anyone heartburn, but I do have the facts before me that prompted my decision - please save the recriminations, life it too short, and this is not the forum for schoolyard intolerance.

Wow, hope you feel better after getting that off your chest. You took it back, I am sure that statement would have done. Thanks for posting.
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post #179 of 284
7/17/10 at 2:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Part of the issue is the spin Apple had on the problem. They made it appear most phones have just as bad of a reception issue. False. They only offered a free fix until the end of Sep. They made no mention of attempting to fix the issue by other means. And btw, it's not just the first batch. If that was the case, Apple would have stated that fact. It's great you don't have the issue. But my theory is that the issue only affects one of the two bands (850 or 1900) AT&T uses. You might be serviced by the unaffected band.

Steve said more than once that they are investigating other solutions..Not exactly no mention. It is amazing how many people just tune things out that don't fit their world view.
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post #180 of 284
7/17/10 at 3:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

First, Apple is offering a free fix TODAY. Why aren't they recommending it today?


They are not offering a fix, they are offering a work around, big difference.
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post #181 of 284
7/17/10 at 4:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


On another note (not in reply to the quote above):

People should just get used to the fact that Apple won this round and get on with their lives. Those that believe that Apple is somehow lying or dissembling about the facts they presented today are basically nutcases. One has to believe that they all got up there and lied, and that's just not credible at all. The CEO and all the top guys (who have a lawsuit against them on the issue no less), are going to get up on stage and lie about this stuff? Seriously?

I like this quote from Jobs to a reporter after the conference, I think it really illustrates what happened here:

(talking about the tech bloggers) ... "In search of eyeballs, people don’t care what they leave in their wake. … in 34 years haven’t we earned trust and get benefit of the doubt? I am not saying we are not at fault. We are not just innocents in this."

This really sums it up for me. Apple has almost never done the kind of nefarious junk that other companies do every day, yet they get pilloried in the press over and over again. How many times does the tech press have to ascribe nasty motives to Apple and Jobs and be proven totally wrong, before they actually give these guys the benefit of the doubt once or twice?

Apple has always been a great company IMO. Why do we always (well not me but most folks), seem to assume they are lying, conniving, money-grubbing egomaniacs? There has never been any evidence that Apple is like that or that Steve jobs is like that. So why do all the tech bloggers seem to jump to that conclusion? Why do half the posters on this forum immediately look to the dark side of every comment out of Cupertino?

I say we should give these hard-working geniuses the benefit of the doubt and enjoy the wonderful phone that three years ago you wouldn't even have dreamed of. Maybe (shock!) even send Steve Jobs a thank you card once in a while.

To answer your "Why" question: Envy!


I think you just did (send Steve Jobs a thank you card).


Let me add mine!

Over a span of 32 years, I have had dealings with Apple as:

-- a customer / end user of Apple products and services
-- an Apple dealer / reseller of Apple products and services
-- a presenter of Apple solutions at trade shows
-- a vendor, selling products and services to Apple
-- a co-developer with Apple on a software project
-- an investor in AAPL stock
-- an independent developer of apps for iOS devices.
-- an observer of Apple as a corporate citizen
-- a bit of a wag or outspoken commenter on "things Apple"

I've seen Apple make mistakes-- a few major ones, and many so minor as to elude memory.

When we had the computer stores in Silicon Valley, we prided ourselves on being the "best Apple stores"-- anywhere.

We were fortunate to hire (part time) some Apple employees to supplement our staff.

We were honored when our top employees, who had outgrown us, went to work for Apple-- it was a great recruiting tool.

I have been involved in tough dealings with Apple and some that did not turn out the way I would have preferred.

In every case (in all the roles above), we/I were treated professionally and fairly.


In 1978, I left a great (well paying and secure) job at IBM to enter the exciting world of microcomputers.

... It was July 1978, and I had been looking ay various microcomputers and decided that I wanted an Apple ][. My wife, Lucy, said we could buy one for my upcoming birthday. On a Saturday, we set out to buy one. There were only 4 (known) Computer Stores in Silicon Valley-- a few so new that they weren't listed in the telephone directory. After driving around for several hours, hot, totally frustrated (computer stores weren't open on weekends, back then) we headed for home. Lucy said that she had read in the local paper that Apple was building its headquarters in Cupertino and she thought she could find it. What the hell, it was worth a try! After a bit of sleuthing, over dirt roads and construction sites, we arrived at Bandley Drive-- no road signs, street numbers just a small paper sign on the building that said Apple.

We opened the door and found ourselves in a room about 80' x 60'. It was chaos! People in business suits, casual dress, some scruffy people sitting on the floor with an Apple ][ doing something. A young woman at kind of a counter, who would wait on people-- then disappear into the back room. Everyone talking excitedly, loudly, laughing. We were hot, tired and frustrated and we had walked into this snake pit. The atmosphere wasn't only electric-- it sizzled. They were wheeling and dealing, jockeying for position, talking and laughing... laughing... laughing!

Lucy and I looked at each other-- what ever they were breathing, we wanted some.

I didn't get my Apple ][ until a few months later (Apple production couldn't keep up with demand, back then).

Things moved fast, and by December, Lucy, my two partners and I opened the 5th computer store in Silicon valley (less than a mile from Apple HQ on Bandley).

Our corporate goals:

1) Provide a return (profit) to our investors

2) To provide the best available products and services to our customers

3) To have fun


The first 2 were based on our background at IBM.

Number 3 was inspired by that day of chaos at Bandly.

It was a hell of a ride and we never [well almost never] regretted it.


The Apple of 2010 reminds me a lot of the Apple of 1978-- its still exciting and it's still fun!


People could claim I am biased, an Apple Fan Boy, love Apple products, have a vested interest as an AAPL shareholder...

... My answer to them:

Damn straight I am!

Do you expect me to buy a Compaq or a Sony just to prove I'm objective.

Should i wander the bowels of an arcane smartphone menu system to prove I'm having fun?

Should I invest in Dell or Microsoft to provide for my family's future?


I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid!


Apple provides the best products, services and support for my needs!

AAPL provides a sound investment for growth and security.

I am watching you, Apple-- and I like what you are doing!

It is still exciting and I am still having fun!


Why look elsewhere?


Thanks Apple! Thanks Steve!

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #182 of 284
7/17/10 at 4:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by battlescarred1 View Post

1 dropped call per 100. There are billions of calls a day. That's a lot of dropped calls! \

99% of billions of successful calls per day. That's a lot of successful calls!

(See how that works?)

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #183 of 284
7/17/10 at 4:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Yes, true. If they avoid touching the seam. The issue, the flaw. The seam that is easily touched by naturally holding the phone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Ah, but how was the phone being held?

You guys are absurd!


You have a new Beemer! Down the block is a pothole, speed bump, 2 by 4, whatever.

You see it, know it will damage your car, but continue to drive over it because you think it's a flaw that shouldn't be there.

If you feel so strongly, why don't you sue Apple and force them to fix the "flaw".

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #184 of 284
7/17/10 at 4:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

You guys are absurd!


You have a new Beemer! Down the block is a pothole, speed bump, 2 by 4, whatever.

You see it, know it will damage your car, but continue to drive over it because you think it's a flaw that shouldn't be there.

If you feel so strongly, why don't you sue Apple and force them to fix the "flaw".

.



Not only are most of them absurd most of them don't own an iPhone.
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
Reply
post #185 of 284
7/17/10 at 5:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagman View Post

Thanks for your comments. I have grown tired of other infantile comments that I haven't heard since my playground days many decades ago.

First of all, for anyone who may be interested, I have virtually all my IRA and individual account money in Apple stock, so show me anyone else who is making critical comments against Apple, as I am, and I would believe their thoughts over anyone who professes to have no financial interest - why in God's name would I take the time to make the comments I've made against this phone, when I loved every aspect of it immensely, except for the reception issue, which was an ultimate deal-breaker for me, when my portfolio stood to drop so much (no, I'm not shorting or leveraged at all - am strictly long). I don't like the feel of bumpers or cases, and never had to use them before on my 3G or 3GS, so don't tell me this is a fix - this sidesteps the issue.

After getting my iP4 on June 23rd, and immediately activating it on ATT, I began to notice the problem, as I always hold the phone in my left hand, to better type on the screen with my right. I got tired of watching my downloads stop completely, so many times, in so many different areas of the city, that I went down to Apple to ask why. The Apple guy blew me off, said he couldn't replicate the issue, so I was out of luck, and sent me back to ATT. Going one block away from the Apple store was all it took to replicate the problem again, getting it to drop data downloading again. This indicated to me that you won't see anyone complaining about dropped data or calls in an Apple store (signal repeaters take care of that, so I'm told) and in returning to the ATT store, I had the self same experience, but only had to go 50 yards away from the ATT store to get it to drop signal integrity again. The folks at ATT had already heard of the problem, as many had already dropped in to complain (this was in the first week after introduction).

So, I have to take issue with anyone who says that, since only .55% of Apple Care complaints have been filed, it is a small problem - this is utter and spurious nonsense. I have been involved with University research for over 20 years, am published, and know how controlled studies are tested and reported. This nonsensical "factoid" from Jobs says nothing about the true rate of the problem, and doesn't even approach non-parametric statistical testing standards (for small samples). I would surmise this was the only data he could lay his hands on, and doubt my encounter at Apple was even recorded, since I didn't have an appointment at the Genius Bar. ATT certainly would be getting the most complaints, but I suppose they don't keep track either, or, at least, Jobs was told to say nothing about ATT's experience by his lawyers.

My own little experiments (non-statistical of course) with 2 other iP4 phones (owned by my patients) gave me identical attenuation results and stopped downloading each time it was tried (at least in my office, which showed a relatively strong cell tower strength of 5 bars of strength with 4.0 software with each iP4 phone, and shows 4 bars now with my 3Gs on 4.0.1 software under the new algorithms. Only had to touch the dreaded "3G spot" lightly in all cases, to get each iP4 phone to stop downloading; the dreaded death grip wasn't necessary.

I had a lengthy discussion with a fellow passenger on the plane to Denver July 2nd. He was, by sheer coincidence, the head sales representative of Bayer International film and coatings division. He has been in the business for over 10 years. He agreed with me that maybe one of their urethane industrial coatings may solve the problem - it is one of the toughest polymer coatings available, and is likely to provide protection and insulation properties - just what you would want. I told him he probably should send an email to Jobs, but I suspect that Apple engineers have already deduced this as a potential option.

Anyhow, after much deliberation, I decided that, while I LOVE the iP4 phone in every way possible, I chose not to tolerate the reception issue, which was never a problem compared to my 3G and 3GS, I decided that the engineers must be working on a fix that involves the antenna (Jobs even let a phrase slip that they may decide to solve the problem by moving the problem out of the way - or words to that effect). This suggest to me that, if I wait a little longer to re-purchase the phone, they will make an antenna adjustment, perhaps move the area of maximum attenuation to the middle of the bottom of the phone (just guessing, since they can't move it to the side or top, so I'm told, due to FCC requirements). I honestly don't believe this is solvable with a software fix, unless you can somehow shift sensitivity to other areas of the antenna to compensate, utilizing software alone (wild-ass guess here). Anyhow, that's my hope for a fix I can live with.

Yes, I went through a lot of trouble getting the iP4, selling my 3G on ebay, returning my iP4, and buying a 3Gs on ebay. Did I do the right thing - for me YES, and let the folks who disagree with my decision respect my right to make my own decision. I tried to approach the problem first with disbelief, then with studied analysis, I believe I have approached it in a reasoned, methodical manner, and, even though I love the phone, I will not be repurchasing this first version of the iP4 unless I give up hope that Apple will provide a hardware fix (once again folks, save the ranting about me being a whiner, crybaby, or whatever, and save your sanctimonious preaching about me using a bumper or case to solve the problem. While I agree that the iP4 may indeed be a better phone all around than the 3G and 3GS, for my type of activity, it didn't quite fill the bill, and the 3Gs is OK (I will miss the screen sharpness, the photo and video capabilities, but most of my activities on the iPhone involve internet surfing, plane vanilla data downloading, and I will not use a bumper or case for a variety of reasons - I loved the Rolex example someone gave earlier - why would I put a beautiful Rolex in a plastic or rubber bumper?

Do I love Apple's products - you bet! do I recommend all of their products - blindly and without reservation - no way. Each to their own, and I respect the ability of us all to agree to disagree on many things. I respect the rational dialogue and discourse, but am intolerant of personal affronts and attacks on my integrity. I am neither a troll nor a fanboi, and will remain as objective as I can on all matters related to my association with Apple products and management.

So.... I don't perceive that I have a problem that should give anyone heartburn, but I do have the facts before me that prompted my decision - please save the recriminations, life it too short, and this is not the forum for schoolyard intolerance.

Well said and well done!

Thanks for taking the time to post that!


I admire those who stand up for their principles and back them with action! You've done so with class!

As an admitted Apple fan and shareholder, I hope that Apple will, soon, provide a solution that meets your needs-- it really is a wonderful phone.


"Well done is better than well said."
- Benjamin Franklin -

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #186 of 284
7/17/10 at 5:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

You guys are absurd!


You have a new Beemer! Down the block is a pothole, speed bump, 2 by 4, whatever.

You see it, know it will damage your car, but continue to drive over it because you think it's a flaw that shouldn't be there.

If you feel so strongly, why don't you sue Apple and force them to fix the "flaw".

.


Nice scenario that has no similarities to the real issue. !! LOL. How about a scenario thats more similar to the issue.

You have a new Beemer. But, the steering wheel will only turn if you have your hands on the top and the bottom of the steering wheel. If you put your hands on the sides (where most people natural hold one), the steering wheel will not work. But if you decide to put on gloves, then you can turn the steering in that natural position.
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post #187 of 284
7/17/10 at 5:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Nice scenario that has no similarities to the real issue. !! LOL. How about a scenario thats more similar to the issue.

You have a new Beemer. But, the steering wheel will only turn if you have your hands on the top and the bottom of the steering wheel. If you put your hands on the sides (where most people natural hold one), the steering wheel not work. But if you decide to put on gloves, then you can turn the steering in that natural position.

I rest my case!

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #188 of 284
7/17/10 at 5:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I rest my case!

.

LOL, thanks for agreeing !!! LOL My scenario is a lot more similar to the real iPhone 4 issue then your crazy scenario. lol
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post #189 of 284
7/17/10 at 6:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post


I almost bought a house with a cracked foundation. I kept telling myself it would be worth it to pay and have it fixed, but in the end, my Dad needed to step in and show me how silly I sounded.

So you're saying that the iPhone 4 is like a house with a cracked foundation?
- very good simile
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post #190 of 284
7/17/10 at 6:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

The whole argument can be wrapped up in a single sentence: If you have this issue and a case isn't good enough, return it before 30 days, otherwise you can't complain because it's now known Apple won't replace it, or change the way it's made.

Very good point
- you have been warned!

- no more class action after this date


And the 30-day return means that they avoid class-actions from current owners (who've had it for less than 30 days)
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post #191 of 284
7/17/10 at 6:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by erpx View Post

I love iPhone 4 and wouldn't trade it in for nothing.

I wouldn't trade mine for nothing, either. But if someone offers me SOMETHING, I would consider it-depending on what the something is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Really? The press I'm seeing, from reputable outlets at least, is either swinging slightly positive or at least neutral (while they try to save some face by at least not pulling an abrupt reverse CR maneuver, Even CR is trying to avoid another immediate flip flop).

Actually, CR's response is getting them in even more hot water. In their blog, they acknowledged that Apple had provided the free fixes they had requested, but since Apple said that they'll reevaluate at the end of September, CR STILL won't give the 'Recommended' rating. So Apple did what they requested and they're still whining. If I buy a phone before Sept 30, it comes with a free bumper which CR says solves the problem - why should I care whether someone who plans to buy next year might not get a bumper? At worst, CR should have said "recommended - if you get the bumper".

Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

I'm a software developer so I'm familiar with development and testing. But I don't go around bragging and patting myself on the back on how much thorough high tech testing we do, in the same breath I'm admitting what I (and many people) consider a pretty big flaw. Then downplay the flaw, and produce numbers that don't accurately reflect the true amount of people affected by the flaw.

So you have numbers that are more accurate than Apple's numbers?

This is why you trolls get such a bad name. First, someone claims that they've seen the queue of people asking for free bumpers and it includes the people on this site - which is, of course, absolute nonsense.

Now, you're claiming that you have better data than Apple.

Look, if you're going to troll, at least try to present something plausible, OK?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagman View Post

First of all, for anyone who may be interested, I have virtually all my IRA and individual account money in Apple stock,

Sorry, you lost me there and I didn't read your long screed. Anyone who is foolish enough to put all of their investments in one stock doesn't have the brains to be offering advice to others.

[QUOTE=ski1;1677710Apple bragged about how much testing they used when developing the iPhone 4. I'm surprised they didn't see this issue a long time ago with all that testing. Seems like they try to have it both ways. They say they do extensive testing in high tech labs, but yet they say they didn't see this issue.[/QUOTE]

So?

If you've ever really done testing (your posts are so full of BS that it's hard to believe anything you say), you know that some things don't appear even in field trials and only appear after product launch. The best product testing still fails to catch some flaws.

In this case, the flaw is subtle. First, it's a problem experienced by all phones, so we're looking for an increase in an effect that everything else has. And the increase compared to the 3GS is relatively modest, so it probably fell within the statistical error. So you've got lab tests that saythe reception is incredible. You have field tests that don't show a major problem. It's not surprising that they launched.
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post #192 of 284
7/17/10 at 6:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagman View Post

First of all, for anyone who may be interested, I have virtually all my IRA and individual account money in Apple stock

That is an incredibly bad idea...I recommend diversifying away even though APPL has really been awesome. Enron stock was amazing too...for a while. Not that APPL is likely to go the route of Enron but Jobs cant live forever.
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post #193 of 284
7/17/10 at 6:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RYOSAEBAXYZ View Post

Hello People Out there,

I'm usually part of those who keep their mouths shut when it's not necessary to open it ; but watching the bull that just delivred to us Steve Jobs (whom I admire otherwise) led me to think that we should all participate to something that may make him go 360 on what he said :
How about we all take 2 min of our time and call APPLECARE and tell them how bad the Antenna is ... just so that their know the real number of unsatisfied people..

what do you say ? shall we all do it throughout the world ?

I think we all should if we all had the iPhone 4.

Fortunately 99.45% of the assholes complaining the most here don't own an iPhone 4 and perusing through some of their previous postings, most hit this sight and dis everything Apple at the drop of the hat.

Interesting these same idiots complained about Apple not responding and now that they have, it is all lies to them. And one wonders why its best to not try to clean up others' piles of shit.
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post #194 of 284
7/17/10 at 6:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

So you have numbers that are more accurate than Apple's numbers?

This is why you trolls get such a bad name. First, someone claims that they've seen the queue of people asking for free bumpers and it includes the people on this site - which is, of course, absolute nonsense.

Now, you're claiming that you have better data than Apple.

Look, if you're going to troll, at least try to present something plausible, OK?

LOl. You are the troll that has a bad name around here. How old are you anyway ? Anyway, I'll stop stooping to your childish level and name call. I never said I had better data then Apple, Strawman !!! Lol. I said Apple's data does not realistically show the true number of people experiencing this issue. Sorry you are so closed minded to understand why. It's sad that Apple had to spin the story, point fingers at other phones, and whine.
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post #195 of 284
7/17/10 at 6:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

In this case, the flaw is subtle. First, it's a problem experienced by all phones, so we're looking for an increase in an effect that everything else has. And the increase compared to the 3GS is relatively modest, so it probably fell within the statistical error. So you've got lab tests that saythe reception is incredible. You have field tests that don't show a major problem. It's not surprising that they launched.

Am I the only one who thought 'ooooohhh' when SJ showed that the outer band of the phone was the Antenna?
- my first thought was that at a naive level, it could be problematic
- but then when SJ explained how great it was, and how clever Apple were to think of it, I kinda assumed that they had designed out the obvious problem of signal loss when the antenna was touched!

Note to self: I guess, my initial naive reaction was correct!
\

Was anyone else perplexed when Apple started advertising jobs for Antenna experts *after* the iPhone4 release?
- you'd think they would hire the experts before, right?
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post #196 of 284
7/17/10 at 6:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

So?

If you've ever really done testing (your posts are so full of BS that it's hard to believe anything you say), you know that some things don't appear even in field trials and only appear after product launch. The best product testing still fails to catch some flaws.

In this case, the flaw is subtle. First, it's a problem experienced by all phones, so we're looking for an increase in an effect that everything else has. And the increase compared to the 3GS is relatively modest, so it probably fell within the statistical error. So you've got lab tests that saythe reception is incredible. You have field tests that don't show a major problem. It's not surprising that they launched.

Your posts are the ones full of BS and spins. Anyway, this issue was first reported less then 24 hours after launch. Point being, this is an obvious flaw that quickly came to light. So why is Apple bragging about their thorough hi-tech testing, when they missed such an obvious flaw. And why is Apple patting themselves on the back with their testing, and proudly showing their labs, when they missed such an obvious flaw ? And why is Apple trying to coverup the true number of people that are experiencing this issue by throwing out statistics that do not accurately represent the true numbers ? Spin, spin, spin.

Btw, sorry you are so blinded by the spin that you believe the iPhone 4's issue is similar to other phones. Most independent experts disagree.
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post #197 of 284
7/17/10 at 7:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

The average user actually does need FTM,



The average user needs FTM as much as they need HDMI: Not at all.
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post #198 of 284
7/17/10 at 7:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

I'm a software developer so I'm familiar with development and testing. But I don't go around bragging and patting myself on the back on how much thorough high tech testing we do, in the same breath I'm admitting what I (and many people) consider a pretty big flaw. Then downplay the flaw, and produce numbers that don't accurately reflect the true amount of people affected by the flaw.

They aren't bragging and patting themselves on the back. One of the stupid criticisms leveled at them was that they, "obviously didn't test the new iPhone. Obviously they did. Obviously if you are a developer none of this is as mysterious to you as you pretend. Obviously it's really not the problem it's been made out to be. And, obviously, you'd like us to believe their numbers are misleading, but just as obviously your assertions are based on nothing at all.
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post #199 of 284
7/17/10 at 7:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

sorry you are so blinded by the spin that you believe the iPhone 4's issue is similar to other phones. Most independent experts disagree.

Do they? Did someone survey independent experts to find out what they think about this? Oh, you just made that up, didn't you.
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post #200 of 284
7/17/10 at 7:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

And, obviously, you'd like us to believe their numbers are misleading, but just as obviously your assertions are based on nothing at all.

Really ? So you believe that since Applecare only had 0.55% of the customers call in on the problem, this must accurately represent the actual number of people experiencing this issue ? Many people are aware of this issue. Many of these same people know Apple is aware of the issue. So why would the customer who is experiencing this issue call Applecare to report it, if they know Apple is already aware of it and is working on it. What good would it do ? So you really think every customer who has this issue is reporting it to Applecare ? Do you think even 5% of the customers who have the issue are wasting their time calling Applecare about it ? Why would they call ? Apple knows about the issue, they have no fix at the time, and the customer knows Apple is aware of the issue. That's why stating the Applecare data is very misleading. It makes it appear like only 0.55% of their customers have this issue. Which is probably very far from the true percentage. If this was an issue that wasn't in the media, or already acknowledged by Apple, then yes, the customer would call Applecare, because those customers would believe their phone has a unique issue.
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