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RIM, Nokia respond to Apple's "Antennagate" press conference - Page 9

post #321 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

99.45% is simply astounding - way to go Apple.


Seriously. Most consumer products have a MUCH higher return rate than that.
post #322 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

I mostly blame Google.

I actually blame websites like Gizmodo that hunt for iPhone's etc in the wild - during the field testing. Forcing Apple engineers to disguise phones in covers.

Then I think Apple's rivals smelled blood and went for it. Thing is now Apple know their in a guerrilla war rather than a fair fight and will hopefully do something about it. Ironically Apple turned out to be right. This DOES change everything again.
post #323 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

Nokia is just plain pathetic. They should just sell everything and return the money to the stockholders.

How old are you? 13?
post #324 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsherly View Post


http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/17/h...ntage-pew-pew/

"Whereas Apple claimed over 0.55 percent of customers called AppleCare with reception-related complaints, HTC's Eric Lin told Pocket-lint the Droid Eris technical support rate was 0.016 percent, nearly thirty-four times lower"


Do they even stop to think? Just for a half a moment?

The iP4 has sold MORE than 34 TIMES that of the stupid droid. Of course they have more complaints.
post #325 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

How did "My iPhone drops calls when I hold it in my left hand" evolve into this DEATH GRIP debacle?

Surely DEATH GRIP isn't the the reason for people's original complaints? Why do people go on about DEATH GRIP so much when it obviously isn't the source of the hysteria.

Apple has done well to deflect attention away from the real issue.

And so have the diehard fanboys around here. Lets ignore the fact that the issue is far more exaggerated in the iphone4 than other devices, and instead point out how when you squeeze ANY phone the signal degrades, this way Apple can be let off the hook entirely.

If I get an iphone4, I'll just buy a case with it. I'm not going to ignore the phone's issues because a bunch of stock holders on AppleInsider told me to. I know what's up, and I now know what to expect. For those who have the phone right now and are complaining about the issue, get a case, return the phone, or STFU.

The iphone4 has reception issues, deal with it people.
post #326 of 543
This thread is doing it for the iLulz!




Quote:
Originally Posted by spiced View Post

Did anyone is as sensitive as I'm when using cell phones? My head gets heated up after good 5 minutes of use....

This is (ironically?) all in your head.
post #327 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

Do they even stop to think? Just for a half a moment?

The iP4 has sold MORE than 34 TIMES that of the stupid droid. Of course they have more complaints.

if you can prove the iP4 has outsold the HTC phone by 34 times you should go viral with it - at worse it implies Apple has the same complaint rate as HTC
post #328 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

... Lets ignore the fact that the issue is far more exaggerated in the iphone4 than other devices ...

Why ignore it, that's the whole point. The problem has been exaggerated far more by the die-hard trolls and those with a vested interest.
post #329 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

Many studies have shown that about 52% of the American population is so staggeringly stupid, they can't pick out their own home state on a map.


And THAT is why Apple makes products that are drop-dead simple to use.

They are the smartphone for the rest of us. Apple products can be picked up by pretty much anybody, and they already know how to use them, no owner's manual required.

Apple makes stuff that anybody can use and that everybody loves.
post #330 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

This issue doesn't occur in the same was as Apple claims on all smartphones. I have tried serveral phones to replicate in a similar manner as Apple claimed and to replicate I would have to grab firmly around the screen to effect the siginal, and that would be pointless since I would have trouble seeing the screen. Apple designed the phone so you had no choice but to grab the antenna when holding it, do you have trouble with this "fact"




So are you saying the 0.55% figure Jobs stated was US only, it doesn't include the people in Europe that also purchase the iPhone 4?



Maybe Apple should have kept their mouths shut and not dragged others into their issue, after all it is the iPhone 4 that the iPhone users are having the issue with, not the other brands.

Jfanning : I have blackberry bold 9700 and replicated that effect a number of times in normal use, I never made an issue because it never made me drop calls. Please put your common sense hat on and stop pushing garage arguments, if you do not like Apple say so.

I did not know that entire Europe had launched the iPhone4 as yet ?
post #331 of 543
The more I hear people complaining about death grip, the more I am convinced that these are mostly from people who want their calls to fail.

Seriously, if I am in a low signal area I would try all means to boost the signal rather than grabbing the phone in a death grip to make it fail !! It just doesn't make sense!!

The statistics have shown that very few people are facing serious enough issues to call for help or return the phone (say about 2%). So it is clear that the ones who are making all the videos and the noise are deliberately seeking out weak coverage spots to make the videos and pictures and spread FUD. Period.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/images/smilies/1mad.gif
post #332 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

Do they even stop to think? Just for a half a moment?

The iP4 has sold MORE than 34 TIMES that of the stupid droid. Of course they have more complaints.

I see you are confused what the word "percentage" means. It does not matter how many more units Apple has sold vs HTC. They didn't say X number of units where being returned. They gave a percentage. I suggest you look up the meaning of percentage. The fact remains, HTC has a much lower return rate.
post #333 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

And THAT is why Apple makes products that are drop-dead simple to use.

They are the smartphone for the rest of us. Apple products can be picked up by pretty much anybody, and they already know how to use them, no owner's manual required.

Apple makes stuff that anybody can use and that everybody loves.

Apple: Doing it for the dummies since '76
"Even if you do occasionally forget to put on pants, it still just works!"

post #334 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

And so have the diehard fanboys around here. Lets ignore the fact that the issue is far more exaggerated in the iphone4 than other devices, and instead point out how when you squeeze ANY phone the signal degrades, this way Apple can be let off the hook entirely.

If I get an iphone4, I'll just buy a case with it. I'm not going to ignore the phone's issues because a bunch of stock holders on AppleInsider told me to. I know what's up, and I now know what to expect. For those who have the phone right now and are complaining about the issue, get a case, return the phone, or STFU.

The iphone4 has reception issues, deal with it people.

You're on appleinsider, of course there will be fanboys who will defend apple to the death. There are pretty much 3 major types of people on this forum.

1) Diehard fanboys. Their opinion changes along with every press release apple makes. They believe there is NOTHING wrong with the phone and the iphone has the EXACT SAME issues as any other phone. Their arguments consist of regurgitating everything Steve Jobs has said about the issue. These people don't seem to grasp the difference between the effect on the iphone from a touch vs squeezing the life out of competing phones.

2) Rational iPhone owners/prospective buyers. These people recognize that the iPhone is more sensitive to touch than other phones, but since the issue is fixed by a case and many are unaffected, they don't care about it. If an otherwise excellent phone is fixed by a case for those affected, its up to the user if a case is a dealbreaker vs ownership of the phone.

3) Irrational trolls. These people endlessly aim to convince people this issue is massive, and seek out confirmation from Apple users to reaffirm their dislike for apple. These people can be seen endlessly posting only the negative aspects of the iphone or rejoicing whenever there's a news report or article with negativity about the iphone. These people don't seem to grasp that while there is an issue, most people DON'T CARE and as long as it can be easily remedied its fine with most.
post #335 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsherly View Post

Something that just caught my eye when browsing engadget:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/17/h...ntage-pew-pew/

"Whereas Apple claimed over 0.55 percent of customers called AppleCare with reception-related complaints, HTC's Eric Lin told Pocket-lint the Droid Eris technical support rate was 0.016 percent, nearly thirty-four times lower"

Perhaps .55% is nothing to crow about? Just putting it out there. A number by itself may sound impressive but put into context and it takes on a different meaning altogether. I know nothing of the general or accepted rate of reception related issues but these two data points are quite disparate.

Firstly not going to say to you that 0.016% is BS, let you use that inaccurate rate, but what is the total number of iPhone 4 vs. Droid Eris.

Understand data before you use it in argument, it is not good to play native!
post #336 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

Firstly not going to say to you that 0.016% is BS, let you use that inaccurate rate, but what is the total number of iPhone 4 vs. Droid Eris.

Understand data before you use it in argument, it is not good to play native!

The iphone has likely sold more, which would leave it with a higher amount of devices for a given percentage.
post #337 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by st3v3 View Post

You're on appleinsider, of course there will be fanboys who will defend apple to the death. There are pretty much 3 major types of people on this forum.

<snip excellent post>

We have a winner.

Mods: You can close this thread now.
post #338 of 543
So I have both phones. My iPhone 4 drops very quickly when I put my fingers on the death spot. However, on my Blackberry Bold 9700, no matter how I grip it or where I grip it or even as suggested I grip it like that for 2 minutes, I cannot duplicate the problem. I love my iPhone, but I will say my Blackberry has a much better signal. I agree this problem is overblown, but Apple needs to focus on their products instead of blaming everyone else. I would love to see all the companies get together and work to solve this problem, but that will never happen.
post #339 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by st3v3 View Post

You're on appleinsider, of course there will be fanboys who will defend apple to the death. There are pretty much 3 major types of people on this forum.

Think that sums it up quite well for every discussion on this site.

Personally I'm type 4. Don't really care if there is or isn't an issue as I don't want the phone (already have an iPhone would just be buying the same thing again but slightly different), but do find it quite amusing after years of Apple pointing out bad things in other peoples products they've now got a news story about them that they can't kill.

Also find the argument that it's fixed with case highly amusing. Really what's the point buying one of the most expensive phones that looks awesome to then cover it up?
post #340 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmac25 View Post

So I have both phones. My iPhone 4 drops very quickly when I put my fingers on the death spot. However, on my Blackberry Bold 9700, no matter how I grip it or where I grip it or even as suggested I grip it like that for 2 minutes, I cannot duplicate the problem. I love my iPhone, but I will say my Blackberry has a much better signal. I agree this problem is overblown, but Apple needs to focus on their products instead of blaming everyone else. I would love to see all the companies get together and work to solve this problem, but that will never happen.

I have had access to several 9700 and they do go down as shown in this non-Apple test in the link below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TG3njXcrg0


ciao
post #341 of 543
Lowered expectations may explain some of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

Do they even stop to think? Just for a half a moment?

The iP4 has sold MORE than 34 TIMES that of the stupid droid. Of course they have more complaints.
post #342 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmac25 View Post

So I have both phones. My iPhone 4 drops very quickly when I put my fingers on the death spot. However, on my Blackberry Bold 9700, no matter how I grip it or where I grip it or even as suggested I grip it like that for 2 minutes, I cannot duplicate the problem. I love my iPhone, but I will say my Blackberry has a much better signal. I agree this problem is overblown, but Apple needs to focus on their products instead of blaming everyone else. I would love to see all the companies get together and work to solve this problem, but that will never happen.

i have both phones and I can tell you both phones drops bars but they BOTH continue to be able to make phone calls.
post #343 of 543
What network is the Bold on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmac25 View Post

So I have both phones. My iPhone 4 drops very quickly when I put my fingers on the death spot. However, on my Blackberry Bold 9700, no matter how I grip it or where I grip it or even as suggested I grip it like that for 2 minutes, I cannot duplicate the problem. I love my iPhone, but I will say my Blackberry has a much better signal. I agree this problem is overblown, but Apple needs to focus on their products instead of blaming everyone else. I would love to see all the companies get together and work to solve this problem, but that will never happen.
post #344 of 543
I've been watching this thread for a bit trying to get a flavor of what people are thinking regarding this antenna issue. As an American that has lived around the world and have experience quite a few networks, I have come to the conclusion that there is an unprecedented amount of whining going on. Phones, ALL PHONES, drop calls. It is a fact of cellular technology. Maybe it's because the US has been the hind end of cellular usage for some time or maybe most people simply do not understand the technology involved. Who knows? Having friends that work at Nokia has confirmed the fact that Apple did nothing wrong in their design (Nokia had similar issues but now puts a coating on some of their antenna designs to prevent the grounding) and it is by far one of the most innovative out there. This is almost a non-issue. If this had not been Apple, with the way Jobs answered things initially, and a few other missteps, the news would not have bothered to report it.
post #345 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Are you making fun of my nickname or the picture?

Not your name. The photo just reminded me of the old joke about the Oakland A's, former known as the Oakland Athletics.

So, if you were a supporter of the A's, then you obviously were an Athletics supporter!

BTW: I once had a client by the name of Richard Wacker. He insisted on being called "Dick". Go figure!
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post #346 of 543
.

I found this story:

The Death Grip Drama Queens

http://jimlynch.com/index.php/2010/0...-drama-queens/


and it has an interesting link:

Apple Becomes Enemy of the State

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/dai...108.guest.html

It is rather long and contains a bit of bluster-- though, not so much as some the antennagate diatribes!

If you take the time to read through the article you will find an interesting perspective,

.
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post #347 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Click the link:

http://androidforums.com/

Begin posting.

Game.
Set.
Match!
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post #348 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

As I said, i don't own any Android devices, so why would I post there? I do own several Apple devices though, hence why I am here.

Right.

Now go be a good boy and follow the nice soldier's advice about having a nice cup of STFU.
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post #349 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by st3v3 View Post

You're on appleinsider, of course there will be fanboys who will defend apple to the death. There are pretty much 3 major types of people on this forum.

1) Diehard fanboys. Their opinion changes along with every press release apple makes. They believe there is NOTHING wrong with the phone and the iphone has the EXACT SAME issues as any other phone. Their arguments consist of regurgitating everything Steve Jobs has said about the issue. These people don't seem to grasp the difference between the effect on the iphone from a touch vs squeezing the life out of competing phones.

2) Rational iPhone owners/prospective buyers. These people recognize that the iPhone is more sensitive to touch than other phones, but since the issue is fixed by a case and many are unaffected, they don't care about it. If an otherwise excellent phone is fixed by a case for those affected, its up to the user if a case is a dealbreaker vs ownership of the phone.

3) Irrational trolls. These people endlessly aim to convince people this issue is massive, and seek out confirmation from Apple users to reaffirm their dislike for apple. These people can be seen endlessly posting only the negative aspects of the iphone or rejoicing whenever there's a news report or article with negativity about the iphone. These people don't seem to grasp that while there is an issue, most people DON'T CARE and as long as it can be easily remedied its fine with most.


Kind of forgot the Mac users didn't you? I have been on this site for long time before Apple created the first true smart phone. Many of us are here mainly because of Mac OS X and Macs in general. Although obviously we tend to appreciate other Apple products too.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #350 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Fixed.

Bing!
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post #351 of 543
This spat between Apple and the other smartphone makers is going to get worse. Especially when the iPhone appears on Verizon (and maybe Sprint).

Even though I think the situation is solved as giving a bumper/cover is effectively a redesign in the field - with the benefit of allowing users to select their color

Apple are going to have to:

1 - Coat the antenna with a clear durable insulator spray - so the issue is not reproducible on a phone without a cover/bumper

2 - Redesign and move the antenna inside the phone thus reducing aesthetics and forcing other compromises. Of course this is what the FanDroids and other Smartphone makers want. It also allows the "told you so" moment. I aslo feel this is why the debate is raging on. People - HTC, Google, Motorola, RIM, Nokia, Fandroids want their "Ha Ha" told you so moment.

3- Buy a company like Zagg with their clear sheilds and include them in the product when shipped

http://www.zagg.com/invisibleshield/...ns-shields.php

Even though the free bumpers are technically enough, Apple will have to do one of the above to really kill this IMO.
post #352 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by st3v3 View Post

You're on appleinsider, of course there will be fanboys who will defend apple to the death. There are pretty much 3 major types of people on this forum.

1) Diehard fanboys. Their opinion changes along with every press release apple makes. They believe there is NOTHING wrong with the phone and the iphone has the EXACT SAME issues as any other phone. Their arguments consist of regurgitating everything Steve Jobs has said about the issue. These people don't seem to grasp the difference between the effect on the iphone from a touch vs squeezing the life out of competing phones.

2) Rational iPhone owners/prospective buyers. These people recognize that the iPhone is more sensitive to touch than other phones, but since the issue is fixed by a case and many are unaffected, they don't care about it. If an otherwise excellent phone is fixed by a case for those affected, its up to the user if a case is a dealbreaker vs ownership of the phone.

3) Irrational trolls. These people endlessly aim to convince people this issue is massive, and seek out confirmation from Apple users to reaffirm their dislike for apple. These people can be seen endlessly posting only the negative aspects of the iphone or rejoicing whenever there's a news report or article with negativity about the iphone. These people don't seem to grasp that while there is an issue, most people DON'T CARE and as long as it can be easily remedied its fine with most.

You missed the most obvious category:

4) Posters who ACTUALLY OWN AN iPhone 4, who know for a fact how overblown this baseless and useless FUD is, and have not had any issues whatsoever.
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post #353 of 543
Two companies come to mind:

1, Blackberry would love to bring iPhone 4 down as corporations are starting to buy them.


2. Gizmodo: Stolen property traders extraordinaire who got into trouble for buying stolen iPhone 4 prototype.

Companies can go to great lengths to make trouble for their competitors when they really feel threaten. It's interesting how Steve mentioned that "they" were trying to bring Google down as well in the Q & A. Google is a big challenge to RIMM in the consumer market.


Time will tell.
post #354 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by st3v3 View Post

It is, but RIM was right in what they said. Apple used other examples to divert attention to their specific problem, which is signal decrease higher than the norm in terms of dbm. There was no need to draw them into this, especially if they weren't going to be thorough in the style of anandtech and show exactly how this counts in terms of dbm and how it affects the performance of the phones.

I was under the impression is that if you were in a lawsuit where someone accused you of making an antenna that lost signal, it would be expected that your defense lawyer would try to show that signal loss is not unique to your antenna. If you are not the only one whose antenna obeys the laws of physics and degrades then there is no good reason for someone to single you out. You can bet Apple's lawyers checked out what Jobs had to say and that they were not opening themselves up. Nokia and RIM are just pissed that they are getting called in to the boxing ring when they were happy to jab from the stands.

This is getting pretty boring. The simple fact is that Apple has offered people their money back if they are not happy and those people should take that offer and go buy an Android, a Crackberry or a Nokia. Or, they could be like me and have a Tracfone! Just $100 a year for all the service I ever use! And I get roll-over minutes if I renew before my card expires.
post #355 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

I've been watching this thread for a bit trying to get a flavor of what people are thinking regarding this antenna issue. As an American that has lived around the world and have experience quite a few networks, I have come to the conclusion that there is an unprecedented amount of whining going on. Phones, ALL PHONES, drop calls. It is a fact of cellular technology. Maybe it's because the US has been the hind end of cellular usage for some time or maybe most people simply do not understand the technology involved. Who knows? Having friends that work at Nokia has confirmed the fact that Apple did nothing wrong in their design (Nokia had similar issues but now puts a coating on some of their antenna designs to prevent the grounding) and it is by far one of the most innovative out there. This is almost a non-issue. If this had not been Apple, with the way Jobs answered things initially, and a few other missteps, the news would not have bothered to report it.


A customer is seated in a crowed restaurant at the peak of dinner hour.

-- The waiter approaches: "Good Evening, Sir-- what may I get get for you?"
-- The customer replies: "The same as last time!"


Sadly, I don't think it is so much a technology issue-- or even one of facts. Rather, it is an issue of entitlement-- it goes something like this:

-- I am entitled to have everything I want
-- I am perfect, therefore the things I use must be perfect, too
-- I do not need to adapt to the way something works to exploit it, rather, the thing needs to adapt to me
-- My standards are the highest, therefore I get to decide how and what others must do meet them
-- I am looking out for the good of mankind, etc, therefore I am entitled to criticize others on their motives, performance, etc.
-- Though I have no intention of using a product, I am entitled to decide what is acceptable to others, for their own good.
-- I need not explain my reasoning, nor supply supporting facts, I am entitled to my opinion and others must accept it, prima facie.
-- I am aware that others are not as enlightened as me, so I will assume the burden of educating them
-- I am a speaker of truth and you must follow and remember everything I say


I suspect, that Americans exhibit the "entitlement mentality" more than citizens of other countries. We've always had it pretty good in America-- it is easy to fall into the trap that we are "entitled" to have the best of everything. The welfare society, journalism, and advertising do a lot to support that attitude.


Reading through these threads for the past 3 weeks, you see a lot of posts that exhibit one or more of the above "entitlement" characteristics.

Humans, being what we are, are all guilty, to some extent, of an entitlement mentality-- I know that I am!

But, if you follow, the content and logic of some who post here, you will often find a hidden agenda with an "entitlement mentality" in that their offerings are above reproach-- If you don't get it, it is because you just haven't been paying attention to the truths they've offered. But, fear not, they will deign to repeat their truths for as long as it takes to bring us to a state of enlightenment,


Again, sadly, this only adds cruft, and detracts from, nay, overwhelms the reasoned discussion of problems or their solution.

.
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post #356 of 543
I hope Consumer Reports subjects new phones from Nokia and RIM to the same rigorous testing they did to the iPhone. All of these competitors of Apple who fanned the flames need to be careful because now their equipment will be scrutinized under a microscope just like Steve Jobs had his equipment inspected and dissected by the media.

Payback is a bitch.
post #357 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

I see you are confused what the word "percentage" means. It does not matter how many more units Apple has sold vs HTC. They didn't say X number of units where being returned. They gave a percentage. I suggest you look up the meaning of percentage. The fact remains, HTC has a much lower return rate.

Leave it to you to report a meaningless number.

Even if HTC is telling the truth about the HTC call frequency, let's look at the facts. The HTC phone is sold through Verizon and Verizon does all tech support. Even if you call HTC, you are referred to Verizon. So, any figure provided by HTC is going to be only a tiny fraction of the actual number.

For Apple, anyone buying an iPhone through an Apple Store calls AppleCare. Even if you buy the phone from AT&T, you can call AppleCare if there's a problem.

Basically, HTC's claim is like your Honda lawn mower dealer saying that Honda cars never need repairs because they never get any phone calls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

Think that sums it up quite well for every discussion on this site.

Personally I'm type 4. Don't really care if there is or isn't an issue as I don't want the phone (already have an iPhone would just be buying the same thing again but slightly different), but do find it quite amusing after years of Apple pointing out bad things in other peoples products they've now got a news story about them that they can't kill.

Also find the argument that it's fixed with case highly amusing. Really what's the point buying one of the most expensive phones that looks awesome to then cover it up?

It's funny - most iPhone users don't care if they have to buy a case. It's the critics who are so upset that iPhone users might want (or need) a case. But then, in the very next breath, they'll criticize Apple fans for choosing form over function. Can you say 'hypocrite'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic8Ball View Post

This spat between Apple and the other smartphone makers is going to get worse. Especially when the iPhone appears on Verizon (and maybe Sprint).

Even though I think the situation is solved as giving a bumper/cover is effectively a redesign in the field - with the benefit of allowing users to select their color

Apple are going to have to:

1 - Coat the antenna with a clear durable insulator spray - so the issue is not reproducible on a phone without a cover/bumper

I really wish people would stop making recommendations without knowing what they're talking about.

This would almost certainly not solve the problem. The 'detuning' issue is caused by a change in impedance of the antenna caused by the capacitance changes from your hand being in proxmity of the antenna. A thin coating would not prevent that. It might lessen it slightly, but it would not eliminate it - your hand would still change the impedance (those of you old enough to remember TV rabbit ears will remember that the signal changed if you even got close to the antenna). You need to separate your hand from the sensitive area - either by moving your fingers a few mm or using a case.
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post #358 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

I hope Consumer Reports subjects new phones from Nokia and RIM to the same rigorous testing they did to the iPhone. All of these competitors of Apple who fanned the flames need to be careful because now their equipment will be scrutinized under a microscope just like Steve Jobs had his equipment inspected and dissected by the media.

Payback is a bitch.

CR won't do that. They've made their position clear.

1. They report that the iPhone has better reception than any other smart phone - even with the problem. They gave it their highest rating.

2. They said that even the minor glitch could be resolved with use of a bumper.

3. They said that they couldn't give the phone their 'recommended' rating unless Apple provided a free bumper or other solution.

4. Apple gave away a free bumper for a fixed time and said that they will evaluate things at the end of that time. CR still refused to give the 'recommended' rating - alleging that since they don't know what Apple will do in the future, they can't give a recommendation today.

Note, of course, the inanity of that position. If I look for their review of a Corvette today, it is based on their information as of today. No one expects that the information will always apply. GM could double the price tomorrow. GM could suddenly have their engine plant start producing crappy engines. The tires on the Corvette might no longer be available in a few months. Yet CR has no problem giving a 'recommended' rating for other devices, even though the future is unknown.

At WORST, they should have said 'recommended, as long as you get the free bumper from Apple' or something to that effect. Or add $30 to the price and recommend it with the bumper. But they didn't do that - they simply went back on their position and supported all the critics who expect perfection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

A customer is seated in a crowed restaurant at the peak of dinner hour.

-- The waiter approaches: "Good Evening, Sir-- what may I get get for you?"
-- The customer replies: "The same as last time!"


Sadly, I don't think it is so much a technology issue-- or even one of facts. Rather, it is an issue of entitlement-- it goes something like this:

-- I am entitled to have everything I want
-- I am perfect, therefore the things I use must be perfect, too
-- I do not need to adapt to the way something works to exploit it, rather, the thing needs to adapt to me
-- My standards are the highest, therefore I get to decide how and what others must do meet them
-- I am looking out for the good of mankind, etc, therefore I am entitled to criticize others on their motives, performance, etc.
-- Though I have no intention of using a product, I am entitled to decide what is acceptable to others, for their own good.
-- I need not explain my reasoning, nor supply supporting facts, I am entitled to my opinion and others must accept it, prima facie.
-- I am aware that others are not as enlightened as me, so I will assume the burden of educating them
-- I am a speaker of truth and you must follow and remember everything I say


I suspect, that Americans exhibit the "entitlement mentality" more than citizens of other countries. We've always had it pretty good in America-- it is easy to fall into the trap that we are "entitled" to have the best of everything. The welfare society, journalism, and advertising do a lot to support that attitude.


Reading through these threads for the past 3 weeks, you see a lot of posts that exhibit one or more of the above "entitlement" characteristics.

Humans, being what we are, are all guilty, to some extent, of an entitlement mentality-- I know that I am!

But, if you follow, the content and logic of some who post here, you will often find a hidden agenda with an "entitlement mentality" in that their offerings are above reproach-- If you don't get it, it is because you just haven't been paying attention to the truths they've offered. But, fear not, they will deign to repeat their truths for as long as it takes to bring us to a state of enlightenment,


Again, sadly, this only adds cruft, and detracts from, nay, overwhelms the reasoned discussion of problems or their solution.

.

QFT.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #359 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

Not your name. The photo just reminded me of the old joke about the Oakland A's, former known as the Oakland Athletics.

So, if you were a supporter of the A's, then you obviously were an Athletics supporter!

BTW: I once had a client by the name of Richard Wacker. He insisted on being called "Dick". Go figure!


I am old enough to have assumed the nickname "Dick" before it became reference to a penis. In those days, you can see it in some old Humphrey Bogart films (Maltese Falcon, etc.) it was used to describe a detective-- "My name is Sam Spade, and I'm a private dick."

Over the years the meaning has changed, but I am too stubborn (lazy) to change!

Besides, what would I call myself: Dick Smith? Ricardo Manzanabaum? Rich, Ritch, Richie, Ritchie? Rick, Ricky? My paternal grandfather's name was Maurice Applebaum... Maybe I should just change my name to Moses, and be done with it.


P.S. I an an A's fan, but don't follow/support them much.

Dick

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"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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post #360 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Leave it to you to report a meaningless number.



I really wish people would stop making recommendations without knowing what they're talking about.

This would almost certainly not solve the problem. The 'detuning' issue is caused by a change in impedance of the antenna caused by the capacitance changes from your hand being in proxmity of the antenna. A thin coating would not prevent that. It might lessen it slightly, but it would not eliminate it - your hand would still change the impedance (those of you old enough to remember TV rabbit ears will remember that the signal changed if you even got close to the antenna). You need to separate your hand from the sensitive area - either by moving your fingers a few mm or using a case.

I suggested 3 options for the manufacturer - it's funny how you ignore the other 2 options. also clear coating is capable of working as evidenced by people removing the problem when they coat the area in nail polish.

You should instead be suggesting that the coating is most likely not durable. On that we would agree ( given what I know at this moment). However as we're not materials experts I think we can still include it as an option.
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