RIM, Nokia respond to Apple's "Antennagate" press conference - Page 2

Historically, Apple executes very well and when they do fall short, their competitors love to make a big deal out of it. Sometimes I think Apple's own customers need to take a pause and remember that Apple is comprised of human beings with human flaws. They will make mistakes from time to time.

Apple isn't perfect, but I have been far happier with their computers, mp3 players and phones than those made by other companies. If I have ever had an issue, they have always made things right.

RIM and NOKIA make good products, but like it or not some of their phones have the very same flaw. I know that they'd prefer no one point that out, but they do. Apple had no choice but to address this when the very same companies and the media are blowing this all out of proportion and making it sound like an iPhone 4 problem only.

Apple admitted that the iPhone 4 isn't perfect and that they are working hard to rectify the situation. But, in the meantime, here is a free bumper. We understand it is not a fix but a work-around, but it will alleviate the problem for the time being. If you are still unhappy, we'll refund your money.

Personally, I'm cool with that.

The iPhone 4 is the only phone that can go from 5 bars to 0 bars with the touch of a single finger at a small part of the case.

Apple is right to be criticized for this obvious design flaw. This is not standard attenuation.

I have made a petition in behalf of all the mistreated Blackberry customers:
http://www.change.org/petitions/view...d_9700_antenna

No doubt. but Nokia has issues of its own--

http://www.electronista.com/articles...to.stop.apple/

Making brick phones for 20 years. This had to to stop someday.

Bottom Line:

Apple Screwed Up By Choosing Aesthetics Over Functionality, They're Attempting To Appease The Masses Until They Can Re-Engineer A Real Solution, and Pointing Out (alleged) Issues With Competing Handsets Doesn't Help..

Note: Rubber Bandages To Cover Up The Flaw Is Not A Real Solution -

... That have nothing to do with the iPhone's design flaw.

This is all too funny. Apple's antenna design has inadvertently shown a problem with all cell phones that most people were unaware of, and so the other guys are all like "WHADAYA DOIN THAT FOOOR?"

Why is this the automatic assumption to anything not "pro-apple" here? I'm assuming you missed the anandtech review EVERYONE else on this forum saw

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/t...one-4-review/2

But a major topic was the effect on data, voice quality, etc. They didn't touch on that. If you're happy with a slight glazing over of the issue, that's you.

I spoke only of RIM. When did RIM say something? Seems like you were personally affected by this bad press on the iphone for some reason.

I'd say they solved it. It may not be the resolution expected, but I don't think this is their final solution for the iphone 4. I think the september 30th date was given for a reason, they're clearly still evaluating what to do. At the end of the day, putting a "band-aid" on a phone that otherwise is excellent to fix issues in fringe areas isn't a huge deal to me. If it were a crappy phone, I'd think otherwise.

That's a really simple way to fix their woes, however. The iphone seems to be more sensitive than the other phones. To say "all phones have signal loss when held, but our new model has more than our old model" doesn't sound so good. They still told the truth, just didn't bother to expand upon it. That said, it is impressive how it holds on to signal even in these fringe areas.

They actually claimed the drop call rate was higher than the 3gs. Not sure how accurate that is though, as either phone might have more or less since I'm pretty much positive most people don't report every dropped call. That would be a hassle.

They show similar behavior but to a less degree. Nobody noteworthy said it was just an apple issue, but many did note that when it does happen with the iphone 4 it is more substantial, even than the 3gs. Plus, they dodged the question about how it happens with a single touch at times and didn't test that either.

I'm talking about RIM. RIM has nothing to do with Motorola or Nokia's jabs. Did you read what I said?

Bottom line is that there would be even more whiners like you whining because design sucks and nobody would care that it can receive calls from jupiter.

First did not believe this, but then I tried losing reception on a Razr (not even a smartphone) and after gripping the chin (though I gotta say is not a very natural grip) I was able to drive it down from 5 to zero bars in about 20 seconds.

After holding iPhone 4 I have to say that my pinky and finger before it automatically lie on different sides of the antenna separation line so I don't think I would have any issues.

Also it's funny how nokia stated that they are "pioneers of internal antenna design". I was laughing pretty hard.

I'm not 'whining' in the least...the Situation Simply Is As it Stands, and only you and your' ilk appear to be all bent out of shape about it, even resorting to profanity/personal insults as you really have no logical/rational arguing platform -

If Nokia and RIM have, then correct me, but if not, Apple was right.

Hey, if you're gonna notify us about a personal attack, don't quote the damn thing in your own post.

Right. My heart bleeds.

I don't see any evidence to back up this assertion, and plenty of evidence that contradicts it. Near as I can tell, the iPhone 4 exhibits behavior that is essentially the same as what is observed on many other phones.

My point stands. Apple did the right thing by putting the rest of the industry on the defensive.

Damn straight ! - I know nothings perfect but Glass houses and stones .....

I liked the challenge to the whole industry, make antennas better. That's just one of the things the industry needs to do

Sometimes a reported post is quoted just in case the violator recognized the error and deleted the post.

Note: ...and wouldn't the courteous/professional thing to do have been to send a PM, or was it your intention to draw public attention to the individual who reported the violation?

Stop the rationalizing.

Demand Apple bring back Field Test Mode in the next iOS 4 update.


http://www.wpsantennas.com/pdf/testm...dTestModes.pdf

I thought that pretty much turned out to be driver error. Didn't the NHSTA report that the engine computer logs mostly show the accelerator was usually mashed and the brake pedal unpressed? ECMs record roughly a minute (or 30, 45 seconds, somewhere in there) of operational data during a crash, which is useful for forensic analysis.


No, but the former can result in the latter.


I think it's possible to fake that by raising a large RF reflecting panel behind the camera, point the camera away from the tower. However, it would be a very bad idea to do so, from a PR and legal liability perspective.

I had no idea that modern phones were so sensitive, my old feature phones didn't seem to do anything like that, they could get a signal through gaps in metal siding, little bits of flesh was nothing. One that I used for 6 years had an external extendable antenna though.


Nokia did, I don't remember Samsung or RIM doing it. I thought the presentation was very respectful, there were no aspersions cast as to the quality of the radio or antenna design. The only question mark for me was Steve pointing to the line and saying it was supposed to be an indicator of where NOT to touch, such a thing was not made known before the presentation. I did not find such a mention in the paperwork shipped with my iPhone 4. I also question the sensibility of designing the phone such that the weak spot is in an area commonly touched when holding the phone. That said, it wasn't a problem for me, and I live in a weak signal area.

Increased antenna performance design, but X marks the spot where you will decrease its superior performance if you bridge it. Small effort on the part of the user to avoid dropped calls in low bandwidth areas.

Don't do it! If you get one, there's only a 99.45% chance you'll be happy with it enough to keep it. And if you believe the flip-floppers over at Consumer Reports, you'll just be settling for the best smartphone on the market. You should demand more. Perhaps a cheap and clunky Nokia phone.


Don't you want a Nokia Hello Kitty phone? A plastic fantastic Dell Inspiron craptop loaded with shovelware?

Vaguely true, but definitely biased.

Apple made a trade off for aesthetics, battery life, and small form factor : both of which people want over the perceived small risk of antenna detuning. I say perceived small because this clearly does not happen for a lot of people I know who use an iP4 with no case and clearly doesn't happen for the Apple directors. That being said the problem is now widely known about . Which is different from widely experienced.

What Apple have done is bought themselves time to figure out a manufactured solution. Either an antenna inside the phone - may mean trading battery life and/or form factor or a protective coating. Apple said they'd look at the situation again at the end of Sept.



Really, what more do you want from them? They've done all they can now, and they're looking for other solutions/ fixes


From my perspective - using a case is tantamount to putting the antenna inside the phone anyway - because if that's the solution the phone wont look so good and you'd probably be less interested in having it anyway.
Remember the case is now free !

... or maybe declaring that 'Well Everyone Else Is Doing It' was their last resort ?

One would reason a company as 'innovative' as Apple would have found a viable solution to this 'attenuation problem' rather than choosing a design that actually exacerbates it.

What is wrong with pointing out deficiencies in other products? This is capitalism at its finest. Apple is simply pointing out that this is not a unique situation to iPhone 4.

The same Fandroids, RIMjobs, and NokiaNuts that are decrying the exposition of their pet technologies as being similarly deficient and that "competition is good" are the very same that are out flaming Apple on a minute-by-minute basis in a desperate attempt to keep this much ado about nothing in the limelight. Stings, doesn't it?

Sorry, but I find the comparison to other competing products ENTIRELY APPROPRIATE. Let me repeat that, in case you didn't hear:

ENTIRELY APPROPRIATE RESPONSE BY APPLE

I Agree Wholeheartedly... and (as I previously posted) feel strongly that there will be a redesign in the very near future.

First, most of these vendors already tried to take advantage of the problem - as long as they could pretend it was only Apple's phone affected. You don't think they (and/or their fans) helped stir up the anti-Apple nonsense? Saying that Apple is just bringing them in to distract people from Apple's problems is disingenuous, at best.

More importantly, it doesn't take much to predict that this will backfire on RIM. When Nokia tried blasting Apple, it didn't take more than a few hours for YouTube videos to appear showing that Nokia's phones had the same problem.

There are already videos showing RIM phones to have the same problem, this will step it up quite a bit.

Bottom line, if RIM had kept their mouths shut, the issue would have gone away. Now, they're simply focusing attention on themselves.

What happens if I claim that you are retarded?

Word and true.

Apple correctly pointed out that all cellphones are affected by your hand. the media had been ignoring that simple fact - including CR - in making a big deal about the iPhone 4's behavior. of course few will admit they have been overlooking anything, and will resent Apple even more for showing them up. so they will keep whining, starting with CR.

the only real difference is the extra vulnerability of the iPhone's external antenna gap. in weak signal areas it matters. which is what got noticed. the bumper or a case fixes that. and now they are a free option when you buy one, and refunds are going to earlier buyers. so yes, the design is not "perfect" - jobs started his remarks admitting that - but the problem is fixed in terms of actual use.

continued whining about this is simply gratuitous Apple bashing by the whiners and bashers - of which there are many here and elsewhere. of course Apple's generally arrogant attitude does invite such negativity. plus the Android fans and other rivals.

that said, a hardware fix is of course coming. maybe it is as simple as a clear insulation coating over the antenna gap - which could be instituted in a few months - or simply moving the gap to the bottom of the phone, instead of on its side, where it is unlikely to be touched - which would take longer with FCC review. i dunno. but to claim the whole external antenna concept is intrinsically flawed is wild overstatement at this point.

most people i know use a case on their phones anyway, and i suspect at least half of consumers do. for them there is no need to wait for a hardware fix and they should go ahead and buy an iPhone 4 without hesitation. but for folks who like their phones naked - i do - i would suggest they wait and see if a revised model comes out mid-cycle. if i were Apple i would not wait a full year cycle to fix an admitted weakness.

Exactly right. Every RIM and Nokia phone drops calls when you have it in your hand. That's why those Crackberrys use bluetooth headsets so much.

Excellent observations. +1.

Or a different product - semantics I know but the fix could just be a clear durable coating that hardly anyone notices. That would require a manufacturing change but not a design change.


As for fields test mode (FTM) - I don't want FTM back until it tells me what I need to know and it's comparable to FTM in other products.
So:

1 I want all smart phones to have FTM
2 I want them to use the same formula to detect signal strength, interference etc
3 I want the results to be accurate
4 I want the results to be comparable


I'm sure there are other things I'll need but that's it for now

I've seen custom-made Band-Aids that work too. Most iPhone 4 owners are having fun with this, but the media blew it all out of proportion.

Check the anandtech review, they show the decrease in dbm instead of the decrease in bars. I'm not just talking out of my ass, I have no reason to slight apple.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/t...one-4-review/2

The iphone 4 in a case performs extremely well, and outside of a case has the most signal loss in dbm of all 3 phones depending on how its held--including the 3GS. What's good about the design is it hangs on to calls better. The loss of signal from holding it in a fringe area would be the real issue. For everyone else with GOOD service it's a neat party trick.

I guess they care a lot more about the way it works rather than the way it looks. They have no taste at all. Apple has the right idea.

In fact, it bothered me that the media did not not pursue this angle of the story at all. One would have thought that it would have been a great start to the career of some investigative reporter to explore whether and which other cars had similar electronic hardware, similar Toyota-like design of accelerator, similar software, reports of 'automatic' speeding and brake failure, etc. and probe whether it was happening elsewhere. Whether the answer was 'yes' or 'no,' what an important story that would have been!

A similar opportunity existed with iPhone versus other smart-phones, on the issue of signal attenuation. Yet, all the hordes could do was to look over each others' shoulders and report the same thing that each other was reporting.

What an utterly lazy, uninformed industry it has become!

Every phone has exactly the same problem as the iPhone, but nobody except Apple is honest enough to admit it.

Bunch of WHINERS!!!

You smoke too much.

That is only when you have zero bars to begin with. The new software has fixed that particular "problem".

And every phone has a magic spot. Apple's only mistake was to put a contrasting black bar there, so everybody knows where it is.