RIM, Nokia respond to Apple's "Antennagate" press conference - Page 3

Please go away. You add little or nothing to any discussion. All you spew is negativity.

How can you live like this?! Don't you have happier/better/more productive ways to spend your time?

"For their part, RIM dismissed ..."
RIM is one corporation. RIM should be referred to as "it."

Note: Ignore List

Some newbie comes into their (the whole mobile hardware industry) market and gobbles up 80% of the industry profits in three years. They are collectively dying for an opportunity slow Apple down. Too bad, too late.

Sure, but question still stands. WHAT DO YOU SMOKE THAT GETS YOU SO HIGH?

The iPhone has the best reception of any cell phone, bar none, unless you hold it in the same way that makes every other cellphone lose signal.

Its that simple. Their design DOES make better reception then anybody.

I really wish Apple wouldn't have had to be the one's to point out similar problems with Nokia and RIM phones. It does make them look bad, but apparently the tech media doesn't have the integrity to do their jobs so someone had to point it out. Nokia and RIM don't have a leg to stand on with their complaints. Truth is an absolute defense.

If you don't want an iPhone don't buy one. If you bought one and don't like it, return it.

(Non-Apple sponsored) Scientific Evidence... Laboratory Results - Please?

That was my take on the situation, but do you have any evidence to back up your claim other than the AnandTech.com report?


Thing is the iPhone has a mark much like a scab, and people just cant help but "pick at it"

Yeah: So much talent in that industry, so many tens of thousands of smart people, so many billions of R&D dollars, and yet they have so little to show for it. Along comes a cute-sy computer/PMP maker, and their industry gets upended.

I'll bet they're still sitting around in the executive boardrooms and R&D labs in endless meetings, discussing what the heck happened during these past three years.

Generally, if you point to a competitor's product, you are identifying a product that the intended customer may want to investigate.

For example, if you say that your car has a glove compartment just as big as a BMW, then you have told the customer that BMW is a worthy competitor. And if the customer doesn't care about the Glove Box, the real stuff about the BMW might cause them to buy one.

So generally, it is uncommon for any company to give free advertising to their competition.

But Apple has no competition.

And where's yours when you make ridiculous assertions like [quote] "Screwed Up By Choosing Aesthetics Over Functionality"? [unquote]?

I hope so, I'm tired of people offering me feeds and speeds - I want utility, design, usability, factored in as well



well Nokia seem to be sitting around or reorganizing every 5 minutes

Where did you get this information? It holds on to the signal quite well but I'm not sure about it being the best cell phone in terms of reception at all.


Great. I'm happy that you have an opinion that's different from mine. I completely care that you do not agree with my post. And what stings? I don't even own a blackberry, but I see the assumption around here is if it's not pro-apple, you're pro-competition.

Anyway, clearly these Fandroids, RIMjobs, and NokiaNuts decrying the exposition of their pet technologies have gotten to you--who most likely self identify as an AppleAsshat. Sucks for you, posts on an online forum made by people who don't like your device really shouldn't bother you. You should calm down.

Also, the comparison was just a glazing over of the issue. As I've said before, "every phone has this issue, but ours results in a greater amount of signal loss than our previous model" doesn't sound too good. Thus, they just left it at the first part. Everyone knows that the bars mean little, and I'm sure apple does too. However they never got into the amount lost in dbm with their phone vs competing phones, data loss, phone quality and calls dropped, or anything scientific. Everyone decried how unscientific all the random videos online were and considered anandtech to be a credible source with their findings on the iphone 4, but when apple does something in the same vein the whole forum jumps on it. I like anandtechs testing of it better, showing how the 3 phones responded depending on how it was held in one's hand. Their review was excellent because they noted the issue, but also highlighted the positives of the antenna design. Seems like everyone feels too close to their phones. The brand loyalty in the phone industry is ridiculous.

[QUOTE=anantksundaram;1678091]And where's yours when you make ridiculous assertions like
Mine was merely an opinion, and presented as such, not (seemingly) a statement of fact.

Know The Difference -

Look no further than the Apple website. They now have pictures of their labs, which cost 100 Million Dollars.

Toyota never went out of their way to say that the stuck accelerator problem really wasn't a problem, then drag GM and Honda into the mix.

I find what Apple did, is sort of sketchy, they admitted a problem, but didn't own up to it. They didn't fix the problem, just put a band aid over it, then used the Chewbacca defense to give the cult something to divert their attention towards.

Seriously while other phones may lose bars when the phones are held in the 'death grip', ie normal handheld position, do any of them drop calls like the iPhone 4 can? Probably not. Not that it couldn't happen, but Apple is the one that uses hyperbole to describe everything they do, and there simply aren't a lot of other companies that can sell 3 million phones that quickly; Apple is one of the big boys, they have to be more forthcoming with mistakes.

[QUOTE=DaHarder;1678094]
DaHarder: Just earlier today, a global moderator told you the following: "Maybe if you don't come here with an axe to grind, you might not get flak for grinding your axe at every opportunity that you see. I realize that sometimes people come across as insufferable fanboys, but then, that doesn't justify coming across as an insufferable troll."

You should probably consider that a polite warning.

Steve quoted the ATT data. The iP4 has fewer dropped calls than any other phone except the 3GS, which is the second-best phone on the market. And compared to the 3GS, the difference was hardly worth mentioning, but Steve manned up to it anyways, in an abundance of honesty.

Any more questions?

Wait, where did he say that? I swore he only said it had more dropped calls than the 3GS, not fewer dropped calls than any phone on the market except the 3GS.

To mis-qoute Yoda:

"The answer you seek may be in the forum name. Yes, it is."

no Apple used examples to show that this ISN'T an apple specific problem. And all the other phones actually lost MORE bars then iPhone 4 when held in their so called "Death Grip"

Notice how none of these companies statements actually addressed how their phones showed the same results as iPhone 4 when gripped in a certain way. Despite the fact most of them poked at apple for this very reason. Did you expect Apple NOT to fight back??

And in all honestly Steve actually praised the quality of these phones when showing their videos. He specifically gave every other phone company a chance to join him and say "yes, this is a challenge for the entire industry" but instead they all immaturely denied everything. Funny, isn't that what every one was mad at Apple for these past few weeks?? Not addressing an issue??

So, your assertion is that the other phones drop bars, but only the iPhone 4 actually drops the calls? How do you know? Do you have one? Or are you just going by the word of the tech press? How does someone admit a problem without owning up to it? What is the time limit for full disclosure? If a company's metrics don't show a problematic trend are they supposed to just jump at the beck and call of the blogs begging and pleading to be forgiven for an egregious mistake?

I only know one person with an iPhone 4. I played around with it a couple of days after she got it before antennagate took off. I didn't speak with her again until last night when I jokingly asked how she likes her horrible iPhone 4. She said she gets better reception and can make calls in what were deadspots for her 3GS. We can nerd-rage about dBm and bars all we want, but in the end if the phone works there is no problem.

Are you retarded?? He clearly PROVED that this ISN'T just an apple issue!! Why would he "own up" and take responsibility to something that is just simple physics?? If you cover up a signal.. it will get weaker. period. It makes no difference what company you are or what product it is.

Thanks, on both points, for making me laugh so hard I blew hot tea through my nose.

My attorney will be it touch with you shortly....

[QUOTE=isaidso;1677994]
Kinda' pimped-out isn't it

Would you use a phone that looked like that in the presence of your mother (or anyone)?

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I cant make my Bold 9700 lose signal that bad. I tried holding it really really tight and i only lost one bar. On my sister's iphone 3G, it only loses like 1 or 2 bars.
I think it is a good stop for Apple to provide cases, but i think they should have done better admitting that there is something hardwarewise that needs to be addressed. I did the single finger tip on my friend's iphone 4 and lost signal and call was degraded. it never dropped the call, however.

If there was absolutely no problem, Apple would not concern themselves in giving away free cases, they would've just released a press statement, saying something to the effect, "It happens to all phones, we can't control physics.", nor would they want to give up on the profit made on the bumpers.

Can anyone find these pictures? Anyone?

Did you do all these test in the exact same spot.. at the same time of day to ensure you where the same distance from a tower and during a time when cell traffic was about the same??

Steve made it clear that all the test he was doing were in an area of relatively weak cell phone strength, as thats where all the issues with iPhone 4 are derived from.

I own a 3GS and my GF own's a Blackberry and I can achieve the same results on our phones as Steve got in his videos.

I have to wonder if it is more than a coincidence that the first time Apple has offered a case for a phone is also for a phone which needs a case to solve an antenna problem. (There *is* a problem, but it's minor and most people would never notice it.) Maybe Apple was thinking that the antenna would probably be fine, but just in case there's a problem we'll have a case available. On the other hand, the reason for the case may be just because the phone has glass on the front and the back.

It doesn't really matter though, because for whatever the reason Apple is providing free cases. I have a bumper for my iPhone 4, and I'm very satisfied with it. It does give the phone a different look, but it's still up to Apple's standards of attractive appearance. It doesn't interfere in any way with using the phone, and has the same metal buttons as on the phone itself for volume. There are varying opinions about how well the phone works without a bumper, but with it the iPhone 4 is definitely Apple's best phone ever, and arguably the best of all the smart phones.

True.

I agree that it isn't an iphone only issue. But that doesn't touch on whether the impact is greater on the iphone or not. It seems, at least compared to the 3gs, it is. I would've liked to see apple test this in their facility for better accuracy though.

What would have been useful was the amount lost in dbm for each phone. This would result in greater or smaller effect depending on the phone. This kind of test would have been much better as opposed to simply touching on using the death grip, which I doubt anyone would ever use. Also, the thresholds for the amount of bars for each phone would have been useful. Another thing to be noted is whether this is before or after apple updated their algorithm, since that makes a difference in how the bars appear to decrease.

Signal loss when holding the phone in a death grip happens everywhere, yes. But the iphone (affected ones at least) doesn't seem to have to be held in a death grip to lose signal. Apple never did a thorough test at all, just enough to support the claim that it happens to everyone. Let's face it, there were many important things regarding signal that they never touched on. I would've preferred they did something more like anandtech, giving us some values instead of simply bars-- which can vary from phone to phone.

I'm not sure if apple is right or wrong in their assertion. But everyone seems to be clinging onto this unscientific test as if its the holy grail, when just recently everyone thought the online videos were useless for being unscientific.

i Think apple is trying to deflect the actual issue here, yes death grip is real for every other phone, but because of death grip, call drop is only unique problem with iphone 4. more call drop is real problem with iphone 4,not just bar dancing.

Gee-- What a totally unreasonable, practical outlook!

/sarcasm

Wish I'd said that!

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What is the difference? The 3GS is the best phone out there except for the 4.

Yes they would. The only reason he did that all was to cool off the press. You and I BOTH know that the press has a fantastic history of exaggerating and mis-representing stories. And you and I both know there are enough people out that who actually make decisions based on what the story of the day tells them instead of just trying it for themselves.

Everyone said last week Apple was ignorant for NOT giving people free Bumpers if they know it makes the phones reception better.. now people are saying they are just masking the problem.

The phone is fine.. and from the sounds of it, has been proven better then any other phone in all areas INCLUDING reception, but like all phones can loss signal when held in a certain way in certain areas of already weak signal strength. But if that still isn't enough for you then actually go out and try it, instead of just buying all this at it's word??

On a personal note, sorry for calling you retarded in my last post man. It was pretty immature. This stuff just bugs me is all.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. They can't win. If they hand the PR in the normal fashion with uncaring press releases they look like jerks. If they give out free cases they look like they are admitting that the problem is actually as big as the tech press has made it out to be.

Just be honest and admit that what Apple haters want is for Apple to say they are horrible people and that they are going to refund every cent to any one that has ever bought an Apple product before they close their doors for good, but not before Steve Jobs commits suicide in his secret underground bunker.

I think people are mad at "Apple's Issue" because iPhones in the past still held onto their 3G signal when held lightly (normally). Yeah, I can grip my 3G really hard and make it drop dramatically, but you don't have to grip the iPhone 4 hard, you just have to have that black strip touching skin and the signal goes WAY down. THAT'S the difference between Apple's problem and other phones. THAT'S why people are mad. A phone shouldn't do that.

Perhaps after Sept. 30, Apple will start shipping the iPhone with a little sticker on the side that points to the line and says "Antenna - Do not touch ---->".

Either that or BUILD a case around the phone that you can't remove.

Could you take some call drop data on your iPhone 4 for a month or two to give us some real-world data so we can see what the actual drop rate is from an unbiased non-Apple tester? You do have an iPhone 4, right? You certainly speak as if you do.