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RIM, Nokia respond to Apple's "Antennagate" press conference - Page 3

post #81 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Bottom Line:

Apple Screwed Up By Choosing Aesthetics Over Functionality, They're Attempting To Appease The Masses Until They Can Re-Engineer A Real Solution, and Pointing Out (alleged) Issues With Competing Handsets Doesn't Help..

Note: Rubber Bandages To Cover Up The Flaw Is Not A Real Solution -

Please go away. You add little or nothing to any discussion. All you spew is negativity.

How can you live like this?! Don't you have happier/better/more productive ways to spend your time?
post #82 of 543
"For their part, RIM dismissed ..."
RIM is one corporation. RIM should be referred to as "it."
http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp

Never argue with idiots, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. - a bumper sticker

Never quote idiots, they just clog up...
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http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp

Never argue with idiots, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. - a bumper sticker

Never quote idiots, they just clog up...
Reply
post #83 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Povilas View Post

You smoke too much.

Note: Ignore List
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #84 of 543
Some newbie comes into their (the whole mobile hardware industry) market and gobbles up 80% of the industry profits in three years. They are collectively dying for an opportunity slow Apple down. Too bad, too late.
post #85 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Note: Ignore List

Sure, but question still stands. WHAT DO YOU SMOKE THAT GETS YOU SO HIGH?

Which of us is the fisherman and which the trout?

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Which of us is the fisherman and which the trout?

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post #86 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post


One would reason a company as 'innovative' as Apple would have found a viable solution to this 'attenuation problem' rather than choosing a design that actually exacerbates it.


The iPhone has the best reception of any cell phone, bar none, unless you hold it in the same way that makes every other cellphone lose signal.

Its that simple. Their design DOES make better reception then anybody.
post #87 of 543
I really wish Apple wouldn't have had to be the one's to point out similar problems with Nokia and RIM phones. It does make them look bad, but apparently the tech media doesn't have the integrity to do their jobs so someone had to point it out. Nokia and RIM don't have a leg to stand on with their complaints. Truth is an absolute defense.
post #88 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Bottom Line:

Apple Screwed Up By Choosing Aesthetics Over Functionality, They're Attempting To Appease The Masses Until They Can Re-Engineer A Real Solution, and Pointing Out (alleged) Issues With Competing Handsets Doesn't Help..

Note: Rubber Bandages To Cover Up The Flaw Is Not A Real Solution -

If you don't want an iPhone don't buy one. If you bought one and don't like it, return it.
post #89 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

The iPhone has the best reception of any cell phone, bar none, unless you hold it in the same way that makes every other cellphone lose signal.

Its that simple. Their design DOES make better reception then anybody.

(Non-Apple sponsored) Scientific Evidence... Laboratory Results - Please?
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #90 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

The iPhone has the best reception of any cell phone, bar none, unless you hold it in the same way that makes every other cellphone lose signal.

Its that simple. Their design DOES make better reception then anybody.

That was my take on the situation, but do you have any evidence to back up your claim other than the AnandTech.com report?


Thing is the iPhone has a mark much like a scab, and people just cant help but "pick at it"
post #91 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasfxlt View Post

Some newbie comes into their (the whole mobile hardware industry) market and gobbles up 80% of the industry profits in three years. They are collectively dying for an opportunity slow Apple down. Too bad, too late.

Yeah: So much talent in that industry, so many tens of thousands of smart people, so many billions of R&D dollars, and yet they have so little to show for it. Along comes a cute-sy computer/PMP maker, and their industry gets upended.

I'll bet they're still sitting around in the executive boardrooms and R&D labs in endless meetings, discussing what the heck happened during these past three years.
post #92 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by SixPenceRicher View Post

What is wrong with pointing out deficiencies in other products?




ENTIRELY APPROPRIATE RESPONSE BY APPLE



Generally, if you point to a competitor's product, you are identifying a product that the intended customer may want to investigate.

For example, if you say that your car has a glove compartment just as big as a BMW, then you have told the customer that BMW is a worthy competitor. And if the customer doesn't care about the Glove Box, the real stuff about the BMW might cause them to buy one.

So generally, it is uncommon for any company to give free advertising to their competition.

But Apple has no competition.
post #93 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

(Non-Apple sponsored) Scientific Evidence... Laboratory Results - Please?

And where's yours when you make ridiculous assertions like [quote] "Screwed Up By Choosing Aesthetics Over Functionality"? [unquote]?
post #94 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasfxlt View Post

Some newbie comes into their (the whole mobile hardware industry) market and gobbles up 80% of the industry profits in three years. They are collectively dying for an opportunity slow Apple down. Too bad, too late.

I hope so, I'm tired of people offering me feeds and speeds - I want utility, design, usability, factored in as well


Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Yeah: So much talent in that industry, so many tens of thousands of smart people, so many billions of R&D dollars, and yet they have so little to show for it. Along comes a cute-sy computer/PMP maker, and their industry gets upended.

I'll bet they're still sitting around in the executive boardrooms and R&D labs in endless meetings, discussing what the heck happened during these past three years.

well Nokia seem to be sitting around or reorganizing every 5 minutes
post #95 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

The iPhone has the best reception of any cell phone, bar none, unless you hold it in the same way that makes every other cellphone lose signal.

Its that simple. Their design DOES make better reception then anybody.

Where did you get this information? It holds on to the signal quite well but I'm not sure about it being the best cell phone in terms of reception at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SixPenceRicher View Post

What is wrong with pointing out deficiencies in other products? This is capitalism at its finest. Apple is simply pointing out that this is not a unique situation to iPhone 4.

The same Fandroids, RIMjobs, and NokiaNuts that are decrying the exposition of their pet technologies as being similarly deficient and that "competition is good" are the very same that are out flaming Apple on a minute-by-minute basis in a desperate attempt to keep this much ado about nothing in the limelight. Stings, doesn't it?

Sorry, but I find the comparison to other competing products ENTIRELY APPROPRIATE. Let me repeat that, in case you didn't hear:

ENTIRELY APPROPRIATE RESPONSE BY APPLE

Great. I'm happy that you have an opinion that's different from mine. I completely care that you do not agree with my post. And what stings? I don't even own a blackberry, but I see the assumption around here is if it's not pro-apple, you're pro-competition.

Anyway, clearly these Fandroids, RIMjobs, and NokiaNuts decrying the exposition of their pet technologies have gotten to you--who most likely self identify as an AppleAsshat. Sucks for you, posts on an online forum made by people who don't like your device really shouldn't bother you. You should calm down.

Also, the comparison was just a glazing over of the issue. As I've said before, "every phone has this issue, but ours results in a greater amount of signal loss than our previous model" doesn't sound too good. Thus, they just left it at the first part. Everyone knows that the bars mean little, and I'm sure apple does too. However they never got into the amount lost in dbm with their phone vs competing phones, data loss, phone quality and calls dropped, or anything scientific. Everyone decried how unscientific all the random videos online were and considered anandtech to be a credible source with their findings on the iphone 4, but when apple does something in the same vein the whole forum jumps on it. I like anandtechs testing of it better, showing how the 3 phones responded depending on how it was held in one's hand. Their review was excellent because they noted the issue, but also highlighted the positives of the antenna design. Seems like everyone feels too close to their phones. The brand loyalty in the phone industry is ridiculous.
post #96 of 543
[QUOTE=anantksundaram;1678091]And where's yours when you make ridiculous assertions like
Quote:
"Screwed Up By Choosing Aesthetics Over Functionality"? [unquote]?

Mine was merely an opinion, and presented as such, not (seemingly) a statement of fact.

Know The Difference -
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
Reply
post #97 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

(Non-Apple sponsored) Scientific Evidence... Laboratory Results - Please?

Look no further than the Apple website. They now have pictures of their labs, which cost 100 Million Dollars.
post #98 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2oh1 View Post

I disagree that Apple was out of line in any way here.

Remember the Toyotas-won't-stop problem from a few months ago? If the issue wasn't a Toyota issue, but instead a problem that was universal to all cars (or all sedans, regardless of the carmaker), you're damn right that I'd have wanted Toyota to point that out.

Toyota never went out of their way to say that the stuck accelerator problem really wasn't a problem, then drag GM and Honda into the mix.

I find what Apple did, is sort of sketchy, they admitted a problem, but didn't own up to it. They didn't fix the problem, just put a band aid over it, then used the Chewbacca defense to give the cult something to divert their attention towards.

Seriously while other phones may lose bars when the phones are held in the 'death grip', ie normal handheld position, do any of them drop calls like the iPhone 4 can? Probably not. Not that it couldn't happen, but Apple is the one that uses hyperbole to describe everything they do, and there simply aren't a lot of other companies that can sell 3 million phones that quickly; Apple is one of the big boys, they have to be more forthcoming with mistakes.
post #99 of 543
[QUOTE=DaHarder;1678094]
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

And where's yours when you make ridiculous assertions like

Mine was merely an opinion, and presented as such, not (seemingly) a statement of fact.

Know The Difference -

DaHarder: Just earlier today, a global moderator told you the following: "Maybe if you don't come here with an axe to grind, you might not get flak for grinding your axe at every opportunity that you see. I realize that sometimes people come across as insufferable fanboys, but then, that doesn't justify coming across as an insufferable troll."

You should probably consider that a polite warning.
post #100 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic8Ball View Post

That was my take on the situation, but do you have any evidence to back up your claim other than the AnandTech.com report?



Steve quoted the ATT data. The iP4 has fewer dropped calls than any other phone except the 3GS, which is the second-best phone on the market. And compared to the 3GS, the difference was hardly worth mentioning, but Steve manned up to it anyways, in an abundance of honesty.

Any more questions?
post #101 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

Steve quoted the ATT data. The iP4 has fewer dropped calls than any other phone except the 3GS, which is the second-best phone on the market. And compared to the 3GS, the difference was hardly worth mentioning, but Steve manned up to it anyways, in an abundance of honesty.

Any more questions?

Wait, where did he say that? I swore he only said it had more dropped calls than the 3GS, not fewer dropped calls than any phone on the market except the 3GS.
post #102 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by st3v3 View Post

Why is this the automatic assumption to anything not "pro-apple" here?

To mis-qoute Yoda:

"The answer you seek may be in the forum name. Yes, it is."
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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post #103 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by st3v3 View Post

It is, but RIM was right in what they said. Apple used other examples to divert attention to their specific problem, which is signal decrease higher than the norm in terms of dbm. There was no need to draw them into this, especially if they weren't going to be thorough in the style of anandtech and show exactly how this counts in terms of dbm and how it affects the performance of the phones.

no Apple used examples to show that this ISN'T an apple specific problem. And all the other phones actually lost MORE bars then iPhone 4 when held in their so called "Death Grip"

Notice how none of these companies statements actually addressed how their phones showed the same results as iPhone 4 when gripped in a certain way. Despite the fact most of them poked at apple for this very reason. Did you expect Apple NOT to fight back??

And in all honestly Steve actually praised the quality of these phones when showing their videos. He specifically gave every other phone company a chance to join him and say "yes, this is a challenge for the entire industry" but instead they all immaturely denied everything. Funny, isn't that what every one was mad at Apple for these past few weeks?? Not addressing an issue??
post #104 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness View Post

Toyota never went out of their way to say that the stuck accelerator problem really wasn't a problem, then drag GM and Honda into the mix.

I find what Apple did, is sort of sketchy, they admitted a problem, but didn't own up to it. They didn't fix the problem, just put a band aid over it, then used the Chewbacca defense to give the cult something to divert their attention towards.

Seriously while other phones may lose bars when the phones are held in the 'death grip', ie normal handheld position, do any of them drop calls like the iPhone 4 can? Probably not. Not that it couldn't happen, but Apple is the one that uses hyperbole to describe everything they do, and there simply aren't a lot of other companies that can sell 3 million phones that quickly; Apple is one of the big boys, they have to be more forthcoming with mistakes.

So, your assertion is that the other phones drop bars, but only the iPhone 4 actually drops the calls? How do you know? Do you have one? Or are you just going by the word of the tech press? How does someone admit a problem without owning up to it? What is the time limit for full disclosure? If a company's metrics don't show a problematic trend are they supposed to just jump at the beck and call of the blogs begging and pleading to be forgiven for an egregious mistake?

I only know one person with an iPhone 4. I played around with it a couple of days after she got it before antennagate took off. I didn't speak with her again until last night when I jokingly asked how she likes her horrible iPhone 4. She said she gets better reception and can make calls in what were deadspots for her 3GS. We can nerd-rage about dBm and bars all we want, but in the end if the phone works there is no problem.
post #105 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness View Post

Toyota never went out of their way to say that the stuck accelerator problem really wasn't a problem, then drag GM and Honda into the mix.

I find what Apple did, is sort of sketchy, they admitted a problem, but didn't own up to it. They didn't fix the problem, just put a band aid over it, then used the Chewbacca defense to give the cult something to divert their attention towards.

Seriously while other phones may lose bars when the phones are held in the 'death grip', ie normal handheld position, do any of them drop calls like the iPhone 4 can? Probably not. Not that it couldn't happen, but Apple is the one that uses hyperbole to describe everything they do, and there simply aren't a lot of other companies that can sell 3 million phones that quickly; Apple is one of the big boys, they have to be more forthcoming with mistakes.

Are you retarded?? He clearly PROVED that this ISN'T just an apple issue!! Why would he "own up" and take responsibility to something that is just simple physics?? If you cover up a signal.. it will get weaker. period. It makes no difference what company you are or what product it is.
post #106 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Don't do it! If you get one, there's only a 99.45% chance you'll be happy with it enough to keep it. And if you believe the flip-floppers over at Consumer Reports, you'll just be settling for the best smartphone on the market. You should demand more. Perhaps a cheap and clunky Nokia phone.



Don't you want a Nokia Hello Kitty phone? A plastic fantastic Dell Inspiron craptop loaded with shovelware?

Thanks, on both points, for making me laugh so hard I blew hot tea through my nose.

My attorney will be it touch with you shortly....
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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post #107 of 543
[QUOTE=isaidso;1677994]
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillman View Post

That probably explains the Nokia X5 then:

Holy crap!
I actually had to google that phone model because I couldn't believe that was a real picture of a real phone! ...Unbelievable.

Kinda' pimped-out isn't it

Would you use a phone that looked like that in the presence of your mother (or anyone)?

.
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post #108 of 543
I cant make my Bold 9700 lose signal that bad. I tried holding it really really tight and i only lost one bar. On my sister's iphone 3G, it only loses like 1 or 2 bars.
I think it is a good stop for Apple to provide cases, but i think they should have done better admitting that there is something hardwarewise that needs to be addressed. I did the single finger tip on my friend's iphone 4 and lost signal and call was degraded. it never dropped the call, however.
post #109 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by rorybalmer View Post

Are you retarded?? He clearly PROVED that this ISN'T just an apple issue!! Why would he "own up" and take responsibility to something that is just simple physics?? If you cover up a signal.. it will get weaker. period. It makes no difference what company you are or what product it is.

If there was absolutely no problem, Apple would not concern themselves in giving away free cases, they would've just released a press statement, saying something to the effect, "It happens to all phones, we can't control physics.", nor would they want to give up on the profit made on the bumpers.
post #110 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jobs

You can go on the web and look at pictures of Nokia phones that ship with stickers on the back that say dont touch here

Can anyone find these pictures? Anyone?
post #111 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deeathholdd View Post

I cant make my Bold 9700 lose signal that bad. I tried holding it really really tight and i only lost one bar. On my sister's iphone 3G, it only loses like 1 or 2 bars.
I think it is a good stop for Apple to provide cases, but i think they should have done better admitting that there is something hardwarewise that needs to be addressed. I did the single finger tip on my friend's iphone 4 and lost signal and call was degraded. it never dropped the call, however.

Did you do all these test in the exact same spot.. at the same time of day to ensure you where the same distance from a tower and during a time when cell traffic was about the same??

Steve made it clear that all the test he was doing were in an area of relatively weak cell phone strength, as thats where all the issues with iPhone 4 are derived from.

I own a 3GS and my GF own's a Blackberry and I can achieve the same results on our phones as Steve got in his videos.
post #112 of 543
I have to wonder if it is more than a coincidence that the first time Apple has offered a case for a phone is also for a phone which needs a case to solve an antenna problem. (There *is* a problem, but it's minor and most people would never notice it.) Maybe Apple was thinking that the antenna would probably be fine, but just in case there's a problem we'll have a case available. On the other hand, the reason for the case may be just because the phone has glass on the front and the back.

It doesn't really matter though, because for whatever the reason Apple is providing free cases. I have a bumper for my iPhone 4, and I'm very satisfied with it. It does give the phone a different look, but it's still up to Apple's standards of attractive appearance. It doesn't interfere in any way with using the phone, and has the same metal buttons as on the phone itself for volume. There are varying opinions about how well the phone works without a bumper, but with it the iPhone 4 is definitely Apple's best phone ever, and arguably the best of all the smart phones.
post #113 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

To mis-qoute Yoda:

"The answer you seek may be in the forum name. Yes, it is."

True.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rorybalmer View Post

no Apple used examples to show that this ISN'T an apple specific problem. And all the other phones actually lost MORE bars then iPhone 4 when held in their so called "Death Grip"

Notice how none of these companies statements actually addressed how their phones showed the same results as iPhone 4 when gripped in a certain way. Despite the fact most of them poked at apple for this very reason. Did you expect Apple NOT to fight back??

And in all honestly Steve actually praised the quality of these phones when showing their videos. He specifically gave every other phone company a chance to join him and say "yes, this is a challenge for the entire industry" but instead they all immaturely denied everything. Funny, isn't that what every one was mad at Apple for these past few weeks?? Not addressing an issue??

I agree that it isn't an iphone only issue. But that doesn't touch on whether the impact is greater on the iphone or not. It seems, at least compared to the 3gs, it is. I would've liked to see apple test this in their facility for better accuracy though.

What would have been useful was the amount lost in dbm for each phone. This would result in greater or smaller effect depending on the phone. This kind of test would have been much better as opposed to simply touching on using the death grip, which I doubt anyone would ever use. Also, the thresholds for the amount of bars for each phone would have been useful. Another thing to be noted is whether this is before or after apple updated their algorithm, since that makes a difference in how the bars appear to decrease.

Signal loss when holding the phone in a death grip happens everywhere, yes. But the iphone (affected ones at least) doesn't seem to have to be held in a death grip to lose signal. Apple never did a thorough test at all, just enough to support the claim that it happens to everyone. Let's face it, there were many important things regarding signal that they never touched on. I would've preferred they did something more like anandtech, giving us some values instead of simply bars-- which can vary from phone to phone.

I'm not sure if apple is right or wrong in their assertion. But everyone seems to be clinging onto this unscientific test as if its the holy grail, when just recently everyone thought the online videos were useless for being unscientific.
post #114 of 543
i Think apple is trying to deflect the actual issue here, yes death grip is real for every other phone, but because of death grip, call drop is only unique problem with iphone 4. more call drop is real problem with iphone 4,not just bar dancing.
post #115 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo63 View Post

Historically, Apple executes very well and when they do fall short, their competitors love to make a big deal out of it. Sometimes I think Apple's own customers need to take a pause and remember that Apple is comprised of human beings with human flaws. They will make mistakes from time to time.

Apple isn't perfect, but I have been far happier with their computers, mp3 players and phones than those made by other companies. If I have ever had an issue, they have always made things right.

RIM and NOKIA make good products, but like it or not some of their phones have the very same flaw. I know that they'd prefer no one point that out, but they do. Apple had no choice but to address this when the very same companies and the media are blowing this all out of proportion and making it sound like an iPhone 4 problem only.

Apple admitted that the iPhone 4 isn't perfect and that they are working hard to rectify the situation. But, in the meantime, here is a free bumper. We understand it is not a fix but a work-around, but it will alleviate the problem for the time being. If you are still unhappy, we'll refund your money.

Personally, I'm cool with that.


Gee-- What a totally unreasonable, practical outlook!

/sarcasm

Wish I'd said that!

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post #116 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by st3v3 View Post

Wait, where did he say that? I swore he only said it had more dropped calls than the 3GS, not fewer dropped calls than any phone on the market except the 3GS.


What is the difference? The 3GS is the best phone out there except for the 4.
post #117 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness View Post

If there was absolutely no problem, Apple would not concern themselves in giving away free cases, they would've just released a press statement, saying something to the effect, "It happens to all phones, we can't control physics.", nor would they want to give up on the profit made on the bumpers.

Yes they would. The only reason he did that all was to cool off the press. You and I BOTH know that the press has a fantastic history of exaggerating and mis-representing stories. And you and I both know there are enough people out that who actually make decisions based on what the story of the day tells them instead of just trying it for themselves.

Everyone said last week Apple was ignorant for NOT giving people free Bumpers if they know it makes the phones reception better.. now people are saying they are just masking the problem.

The phone is fine.. and from the sounds of it, has been proven better then any other phone in all areas INCLUDING reception, but like all phones can loss signal when held in a certain way in certain areas of already weak signal strength. But if that still isn't enough for you then actually go out and try it, instead of just buying all this at it's word??

On a personal note, sorry for calling you retarded in my last post man. It was pretty immature. This stuff just bugs me is all.
post #118 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness View Post

If there was absolutely no problem, Apple would not concern themselves in giving away free cases, they would've just released a press statement, saying something to the effect, "It happens to all phones, we can't control physics.", nor would they want to give up on the profit made on the bumpers.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. They can't win. If they hand the PR in the normal fashion with uncaring press releases they look like jerks. If they give out free cases they look like they are admitting that the problem is actually as big as the tech press has made it out to be.

Just be honest and admit that what Apple haters want is for Apple to say they are horrible people and that they are going to refund every cent to any one that has ever bought an Apple product before they close their doors for good, but not before Steve Jobs commits suicide in his secret underground bunker.
post #119 of 543
I think people are mad at "Apple's Issue" because iPhones in the past still held onto their 3G signal when held lightly (normally). Yeah, I can grip my 3G really hard and make it drop dramatically, but you don't have to grip the iPhone 4 hard, you just have to have that black strip touching skin and the signal goes WAY down. THAT'S the difference between Apple's problem and other phones. THAT'S why people are mad. A phone shouldn't do that.

Perhaps after Sept. 30, Apple will start shipping the iPhone with a little sticker on the side that points to the line and says "Antenna - Do not touch ---->".

Either that or BUILD a case around the phone that you can't remove.
post #120 of 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky_ozone View Post

i Think apple is trying to deflect the actual issue here, yes death grip is real for every other phone, but because of death grip, call drop is only unique problem with iphone 4. more call drop is real problem with iphone 4,not just bar dancing.

Could you take some call drop data on your iPhone 4 for a month or two to give us some real-world data so we can see what the actual drop rate is from an unbiased non-Apple tester? You do have an iPhone 4, right? You certainly speak as if you do.
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