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HTC, Samsung also take issue with Apple's antenna claims - Page 5

post #161 of 239
7/19/10 at 10:56am
Before the Chief Financial Officer of HTC makes a stupid comment, maybe he should read the manual to their own product next time.

No one gives a damn about Motorola, HTC, LG, Samsung, etc...that is why this has never been raised before. Apple has more success than the others so they'll do anything to knock them down a peg. What doesn't make sense is that the same thing happens with the original iPhone. That big piece of black plastic on the lower half is where the antenna is. Smother it and the bars go down. Same thing with an iPod Touch. The little piece of black plastic is where the Wi-Fi antenna is. Smother that and you will reduce the antenna's efficiency. So many people lack common sense.
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post #162 of 239
7/19/10 at 10:58am
the only objective way to compare the effect of the human hand on various brands of smartphones would be carefully controlled lab tests using identical "hands" and transmitters (not really any person's) - which as far as i know, no one has performed. certainly not Consumer Reports. so we don't have that objective data.

in the outside real world, ad hoc phone reception is affected by many variables. the power of the local transmitter, the version of that transmitter, how far you are from it, possible interference, if you are inside a building (especially concrete), the number of simultaneous users on that cell site, and you - how big is your hand (male/female difference here)? how fat/skinny? all of which is why different people report different experience with the iPhone and other brands.

but anyone insisting here or elsewhere their ad hoc experience is somehow the whole true story about this is flat out crazy.
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post #163 of 239
7/19/10 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

... It's amazing how people like you and anonymouse think this whole thing is some sort of gotcha game, where by admitting there's a design flaw in the iphone 4, you've lost!

For you, it certainly seems to be a gotcha game. But, the evidence contradicts your assertion that there is a "design flaw" in the iP4, any more than all these other phones have similar "design flaws". If we consider it a design flaw, then, apparently all of these phones are flawed, which makes the concept of a flaw trivial to the point of not being a point.

What you are really trying to argue, by mixing up timelines and facts, is that the iP4 is unique in this particular "flaw". Yet, the available evidence contradicts your assertions, especially when the web of misrepresentation you attempt to weave is untangled.

Quote:
Get over yourself. If you really thought I was a troll rather than someone who brings a decent discussion to the table, I'd be on your ignore list.

No, some of us believe that people like you ought not be ignored so that the FUD you attempt to spread can be countered. I'm sure you would prefer if we did ignore you, so you could just go on misrepresenting facts without being called on it.
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post #164 of 239
7/19/10 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Then keep reading, because the person he's talking about had already said he never experienced these issues with their previous iphones. You'll see that a few posts back.

I did start reading the back and forth after I posted my comment.

From what I can tell the EVO user compared the iPhone 3G/3GS to the iP4 and reported that the iP4 dropped calls while the 3G/3GS did not. What he didn't report was if the signal strength was "weak". It does seem like the iP4 has a more sensitive weak spot than the 3G/3GS. But I also know that networks make a difference. The fact that his EVO worked better than the iP4 is due more to the network than the phone. But that's just my opinion. Let's face it....for every good reception iP4 story there is a bad reception iP4 story. However, that doesn't mean the good vs bad split is 50/50.
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post #165 of 239
7/19/10 at 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

LOL! So you think they developed the touch because the iphone was about to come out? Do you have any concept at all the amount of time it takes for a phone to go from a concept on paper to a manufactured product?

Ugh, this is so stupid. We're arguing over what an alternate reality might hold.

You think what you want, I'll think what I want, but lets stick to the topic here in this thread.

Well, yes, it is stupid. I don't know why you started that particular conversation in the first place, unfounded as your assertion was. I guess you thought it wouldn't be refutable?

And yes, that is pretty much the MO of HTC, to copy whatever seems to be popular at the time, and not to innovate on their own. For the cheap quality phones they produce, it probably doesn't take long at all, especially since that's exactly their business model.
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post #166 of 239
7/19/10 at 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, fine, it was your experience and you switched to EVO based on it. But what relevance does that have to the discussion? What does it add to the understanding of the issues?

I would say it doesn't add anything meaningful, in and of itself.

lol...you don't get it and you probably won't because you have asuch a negative posture when ti comes to defending Apple no matter what.....
Thats fine...at least I understand what your conext is. I did not test in a lab with all kinds of expensive machines. I did not have people with degrees and all kinds of acronyms after their names run the tests. MY test were real world with 4 phones...and 2 differnt networks only one had signal loss and dropped calls based on how it was held. So how does the avergae person test these things then? How do you judge your experiences if not from real world from actually what happened to you? You can point to what Apple says is real. You can find all kinds of articles and blogs from people to give differing opinions. Experts weigh in and give technical dat to prove one opinion or they other....but at the end of the day you have to go with what you can actually prove and what actually happened to you......thats what i did.....
What tests did you do on YOUR own?

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post #167 of 239
7/19/10 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

For you, it certainly seems to be a gotcha game. But, the evidence contradicts your assertion that there is a "design flaw" in the iP4, any more than all these other phones have similar "design flaws". If we consider it a design flaw, then, apparently all of these phones are flawed, which makes the concept of a flaw trivial to the point of not being a point.

What you are really trying to argue, by mixing up timelines and facts, is that the iP4 is unique in this particular "flaw". Yet, the available evidence contradicts your assertions, especially when the web of misrepresentation you attempt to weave is untangled.



No, some of us believe that people like you ought not be ignored so that the FUD you attempt to spread can be countered. I'm sure you would prefer if we did ignore you, so you could just go on misrepresenting facts without being called on it.

Right, that's why by pressing a single finger on that bar, the signal changes. That's a little different than wrapping your hand around a phone and squeezing it. That's a design flaw that software won't fix. It can help to mask it, but it won't fix it. The best solution is a case, which Apple has offered for free to those who need it, and I applaud them for that.

What you're choosing to ignore is the severity of the issue and how it differs from the other phones in this way. I can't think of another phone where a single finger can disrupt the signal, no matter how your bars are represented. You keep bringing up the 4.01 update as if that changes the very fact that attenuation can happen so easily.

Your deluded logic is basically to tell people who have a genuine issue, that there IS NO issue, and if there is, it's present in all phones so get over it. Case? Who needs a case, there's no issue. Apple is wasting money giving away cases. Jeesh.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, yes, it is stupid. I don't know why you started that particular conversation in the first place, unfounded as your assertion was. I guess you thought it wouldn't be refutable?

And yes, that is pretty much the MO of HTC, to copy whatever seems to be popular at the time, and not to innovate on their own. For the cheap quality phones they produce, it probably doesn't take long at all, especially since that's exactly their business model.

I knew you'd say this, but if you actually followed how it got brought up, you'd see it wasn't me who started that particular conversation. Way to go.

As far as your other statements, I know it's crap coming from someone with an obvious bias. Having that discussion with you is pointless, because you're absolutely confident in your incorrect assertion that phones wouldn't be anything like what they are today without Apple.
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post #168 of 239
7/19/10 at 11:08am
.

I posted this to yesterday's thread... but today, everyone is here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hezetation View Post

I keep looking at the antenna design on the iPhone 4 and wondering why they didn't reverse the framing so that the bottom antenna for wifi was up at the top where few people grab the phone. It is like they put it in the worst possible spot for how people grab it.

Maybe I'm misguided on which pieces serve as what antenna, just was under the impression that the bottom piece of the frame was wifi and left piece was cell, thus bridging them causes an issue. Anyone know more about this?

Though it looks like there are 3 segments, the black line on the lower right (apparently) is for cosmetic reasons.

I can't really answer which is which, but I have a picture and some possible ways Apple could modify future antennas to mitigate the problem:

Edit: I suspect that the right antenna, Antenna B, is the cell antenna because the SIM card is located on the right side???




Which antenna is used for what?

3G
Edge
WiFi
BlueTooth
possible NFC/RFID?

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #169 of 239
7/19/10 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

They released a phone to the public that would drop your call if you touched it, literally. This is not something that other companies have done, and the only "problem" that other phones suffered from came from those death grip scenarios.



What's going on is the connection is bridged when you touch the black band. Changing how the bars are represented doesn't solve this. Just because their single bar is now at -121 instead of -113, it doesn't mean they have solved the issue. It's the equivalent of getting a bigger tub instead of going on a diet when a fat person displaces all the water.

Again, this software update along with a bumper is all that was needed. Dragging other companies in to bash them, and capitalizing on the public's ignorance about attenuation was just unnecessary and makes Apple look bad (in my eyes anyway.)

Pretty much this. I'll just paste my reply from the other thread:

Of course there's going to be a drop in signal when you block the antenna. The difference is that RIM\\Nokia antennas are generally placed at the top/bottom of the phone, where it's less likely to be blocked, as opposed to the Steve-spot where it's natural to place your palm/fingers.

I thought the original problem was that for some people touching the Steve spot on the 4 bridged the two antennas together, causing them to stop working altogether. So it's actually a twofold issue for the 4, blocking the antenna (which is for the most part neutralized by the stronger reception by being external) and some peoples chemistries shorting the antenna, whereas the majority of phones only have to deal with the former, which is minimized by smart placement and an adequate radio.

RIM's statement is spot on, it really is down to Apple's design choices. Have to hand it to SJ though, I didn't think his reasoning would change opinion so sharply, as it seemed rather weak to me. Though forfeiting the "magical" quality and saying they're on level with other phones have to face may have been too high a price.
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post #170 of 239
7/19/10 at 11:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

lol...you don't get it and you probably won't because you have asuch a negative posture when ti comes to defending Apple no matter what.....
Thats fine...at least I understand what your conext is. I did not test in a lab with all kinds of expensive machines. I did not have people with degrees and all kinds of acronyms after their names run the tests. MY test were real world with 4 phones...and 2 differnt networks only one had signal loss and dropped calls based on how it was held. So how does the avergae person test these things then? How do you judge your experiences if not from real world from actually what happened to you? You can point to what Apple says is real. You can find all kinds of articles and blogs from people to give differing opinions. Experts weigh in and give technical dat to prove one opinion or they other....but at the end of the day you have to go with what you can actually prove and what actually happened to you......thats what i did.....
What tests did you do on YOUR own?

It's very simple, really. I would trust the more rigorous testing over your "real world" experience, which contains few data points, was carried out under uncontrolled conditions, and is subject to a huge range of possible factors of which I have no knowledge. My own testing would carry more weight for me. I would not expect my testing to carry any weight for you. You ought not expect your testing to be of any importance to anyone else, besides, perhaps, being an interesting tale.
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post #171 of 239
7/19/10 at 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaim2 View Post

Pretty much this. I'll just paste my reply from the other thread:

Of course there's going to be a drop in signal when you block the antenna. The difference is that RIM\\Nokia antennas are generally placed at the top/bottom of the phone, where it's less likely to be blocked, as opposed to the Steve-spot where it's natural to place your palm/fingers.

I thought the original problem was that for some people touching the Steve spot on the 4 bridged the two antennas together, causing them to stop working altogether. So it's actually a twofold issue for the 4, blocking the antenna (which is for the most part neutralized by the stronger reception by being external) and some peoples chemistries shorting the antenna, whereas the majority of phones only have to deal with the former, which is minimized by smart placement and an adequate radio.

RIM's statement is spot on, it really is down to Apple's design choices. Have to hand it to SJ though, I didn't think his reasoning would change opinion so sharply, as it seemed rather weak to me. Though forfeiting the "magical" quality and saying they're on level with other phones have to face may have been too high a price.

The thing about Steve Jobs is he's so friggin smart, it's hard not to believe everything he says. He doesn't come off as some money-hungry corporatist douche, so it's easy to trust him.

At the end of the day though, he's a salesman who is trying to push a particular product. One must always keep that in mind.

I think I'm judging Apple very fairly on this. If I was Consumer Reports, I don't necessarily think I'd have the same opinion about whether or not to recommend the phone though. If I were them, I would have said something like "We recommend this phone, but with caution to those in low signal areas."
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post #172 of 239
7/19/10 at 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

It's very simple, really. I would trust the more rigorous testing over your "real world" experience, which contains few data points, was carried out under uncontrolled conditions, and is subject to a huge range of possible factors of which I have no knowledge. My own testing would carry more weight for me. I would not expect my testing to carry any weight for you. You ought not expect your testing to be of any importance to anyone else, besides, perhaps, being an interesting tale.

It has some bearing when trying to get an idea of how severe the issue is for people who are in low signal areas, or in the ideal conditions for this sort of thing to occur.

Even Apple has taken reports seriously, sending out their own people to interview and gather information from those who reported it. Remember?
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post #173 of 239
7/19/10 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Right, that's why by pressing a single finger on that bar, the signal changes. That's a little different than wrapping your hand around a phone and squeezing it. That's a design flaw that software won't fix. It can help to mask it, but it won't fix it. The best solution is a case, which Apple has offered for free to those who need it, and I applaud them for that.

What you're choosing to ignore is the severity of the issue and how it differs from the other phones in this way. I can't think of another phone where a single finger can disrupt the signal, no matter how your bars are represented. You keep bringing up the 4.01 update as if that changes the very fact that attenuation can happen so easily.

Apple's offer of a case is a fine solution that effectively eliminates the issue. But that doesn't mean it's "more severe" than on other phones. What's their solution? Oh, a case?

The main difference, as has been pointed out is that with the iP4, it's pretty obvious how to avoid the problem if you don't have a case. It's not so obvious with the other phones, even though they suffer from the same issue

Quote:
Your deluded logic is basically to tell people who have a genuine issue, that there IS NO issue, and if there is, it's present in all phones so get over it. Case? Who needs a case, there's no issue. Apple is wasting money giving away cases. Jeesh.

There you go again, misrepresenting what I've said. I mean, I know you don't have a real argument, and that misrepresentation is habitual with you, but people reading this thread can easily see that you're doing it.

Quote:
I knew you'd say this, but if you actually followed how it got brought up, you'd see it wasn't me who started that particular conversation. Way to go.

As far as your other statements, I know it's crap coming from someone with an obvious bias. Having that discussion with you is pointless, because you're absolutely confident in your incorrect assertion that phones wouldn't be anything like what they are today without Apple.

Was it not you who claimed that, if Apple had not announced and released the iPhone in 2007, phones today would still look like iPhones, despite the fact that they were, up to that point, evolving in a completely different direction.

Now I think you are even misrepresenting what you have said.
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post #174 of 239
7/19/10 at 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

.

I posted this to yesterday's thread... but today, everyone is here.



Though it looks like there are 3 segments, the black line on the lower right (apparently) is for cosmetic reasons.

I can't really answer which is which, but I have a picture and some possible ways Apple could modify future antennas to mitigate the problem:

Edit: I suspect that the right antenna, Antenna B, is the cell antenna because the SIM card is located on the right side???




Which antenna is used for what?

3G
Edge
WiFi
BlueTooth
possible NFC/RFID?

.



Please send Apple your resume. They need antenna engineers just like you. Not.
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post #175 of 239
7/19/10 at 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

It has some bearing when trying to get an idea of how severe the issue is for people who are in low signal areas, or in the ideal conditions for this sort of thing to occur.

Even Apple has taken reports seriously, sending out their own people to interview and gather information from those who reported it. Remember?

No, someone else's report of their "experience" under casual circumstances, of which we have no knowledge and which is not repeatable by others has absolutely no value in evaluating the issue.
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post #176 of 239
7/19/10 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

While I do agree with you on most of what you said......I just don't a lot peopel complaining about dropped calls and signal loss on the other phones makers. thats doesn't mean they don't exist. I would even agree with the premise that ALL smartphones have some signal loss depending on how you hold them. BUT I have NEVER had a dropped call or signal loss with my iPhone 3G or 3GS or anyother phone I have had becasue of the way I held it. I have had a lot of phones over the years and from different carriers and nerver had theis happen until the 4G......That is just my experience......

I am one of the fortunate people who hasve no problems with my iP4.

I am trying to understand the issue. You've posted on AI, and have a reputation for honest reasoned posts. I would like to hear your opinion!

Did you have dropped calls with your iP4?

Some have said they were able to make calls in weak signal areas on the iP4 and not on the 3G or 3GS-- I think some of the tech reviews had similar findings.

Some have said that the weak signal calls completed normally on the iP4, and were not possible on the 3G or 3GS.

Others have said that they dropped the call on the iP4, but it wasn't unexpected, because only the iP4 could make the call.

What is your experience?

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #177 of 239
7/19/10 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Apple's offer of a case is a fine solution that effectively eliminates the issue. But that doesn't mean it's "more severe" than on other phones. What's their solution? Oh, a case?

The main difference, as has been pointed out is that with the iP4, it's pretty obvious how to avoid the problem if you don't have a case. It's not so obvious with the other phones, even though they suffer from the same issue



There you go again, misrepresenting what I've said. I mean, I know you don't have a real argument, and that misrepresentation is habitual with you, but people reading this thread can easily see that you're doing it.



Was it not you who claimed that, if Apple had not announced and released the iPhone in 2007, phones today would still look like iPhones, despite the fact that they were, up to that point, evolving in a completely different direction.

Now I think you are even misrepresenting what you have said.

Have you decided to dumb down your comments in an attempt to at least be annoying if anything else than wrong?

First off, stop ignoring that there's a difference between the light touch of a finger, and the firm grip of a hand.

Secondly, as far as your deluded logic, look how you tried to make geekdad feel like his story doesn't matter in this discussion, when in fact it does.

Finally, read how that little topic came up and who brought it up when replying to me. You decided to pounce on it and try to turn it into a discussion, now you're claiming I brought it up. Is it really so hard to stop trying to discuss it? Even when faced with the truth, you'll find a way to twist it. You fanatics remind me of the far right fringe in politics.
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post #178 of 239
7/19/10 at 11:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

No, someone else's report of their "experience" under casual circumstances, of which we have no knowledge and which is not repeatable by others has absolutely no value in evaluating the issue.

See, now you're going to argue with me on THIS. Again, you remind me of the lunatic far right fringe who will argue with anyone they even THINK is liberal. I could tell you the sky is blue, and you'd come back arguing it's only blue sometimes, and even then it's not technically blue according to some kind of color chart

How about this: Instead of arguing over what we disagree on, why don't we find what we agree on and end it. So what do we agree on? That Apple's move to give cases to those who needed it was a good one, and that anyone with this issue who continues to complain past their 30 day mark shouldn't, since they had a chance to get out.
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post #179 of 239
7/19/10 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Before the Chief Financial Officer of HTC makes a stupid comment, maybe he should read the manual to their own product next time.

No one gives a damn about Motorola, HTC, LG, Samsung, etc...that is why this has never been raised before. Apple has more success than the others so they'll do anything to knock them down a peg. What doesn't make sense is that the same thing happens with the original iPhone. That big piece of black plastic on the lower half is where the antenna is. Smother it and the bars go down. Same thing with an iPod Touch. The little piece of black plastic is where the Wi-Fi antenna is. Smother that and you will reduce the antenna's efficiency. So many people lack common sense.



Come on, you gotta feel good after letting that one go! whoo-weee! Clear the room, y'all!
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post #180 of 239
7/19/10 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I am one of the fortunate people who hasve no problems with my iP4.

I am trying to understand the issue. You've posted on AI, and have a reputation for honest reasoned posts. I would like to hear your opinion!

Did you have dropped calls with your iP4?

Some have said they were able to make calls in weak signal areas on the iP4 and not on the 3G or 3GS-- I think some of the tech reviews had similar findings.

Some have said that the weak signal calls completed normally on the iP4, and were not possible on the 3G or 3GS.

Others have said that they dropped the call on the iP4, but it wasn't unexpected, because only the iP4 could make the call.

What is your experience?

.

I tested 4 phones in the same locations and the same locations while making and recieving a simple phone call. ONLY the iPhone 4G(iP4) would drop calls based on how it was held. That is my real world expeiences and that is why I switched to the EVO.
I tested iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS and the iP4 and for conext around all smartphones have this issue I tested a HTC EVO.
I test them at my home and around my town (Mesa, Arizona). I could re produce the signal loss issue for the Apple store manager (Chad) near my home. BUT the iP4 was ther only phone tested that would drop call no matter how many bars were displayed or what the signal strength was at the time the test was done. The iP4 was the only one to drop call or lose signal strength. That was my experience based on my normal real world experiences. Now I am not bashing Apple..... I love Apple products and will continue to buy them........

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"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

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"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

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post #181 of 239
7/19/10 at 11:41am
Quote:

So, is the slot on the right side only there for aesthetic symmetry? It doesn't completely bisect the metal.
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post #182 of 239
7/19/10 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

That doesn't answer my question, does it?

But yes, I do retain both the mental and physical capacity. I can even do it with my right and left hands-- I'm just so fucking ambidextrous like that, man.

Let's ask the more appropriate question: Should you or I or anyone else have to hold the phone a certain way in order to use it?

But, you, admittedly don't have the iPhone 4.

So, you have no issues with the iPhone 4 because you can't hold it all!


What you seem to be attempting to do is:

-- take the occasion to denigrate Apple

-- protect us from ourselves, so we don't buy a phone that you feel to be inferior

The first is gratuitous, and the second is condescending-- both are resented as they add cruft that attempts to drown out reasonable discussion of the facts.

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #183 of 239
7/19/10 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Have you decided to dumb down your comments in an attempt to at least be annoying if anything else than wrong?

First off, stop ignoring that there's a difference between the light touch of a finger, and the firm grip of a hand.

Secondly, as far as your deluded logic, look how you tried to make geekdad feel like his story doesn't matter in this discussion, when in fact it does.

Finally, read how that little topic came up and who brought it up when replying to me. You decided to pounce on it and try to turn it into a discussion, now you're claiming I brought it up. Is it really so hard to stop trying to discuss it? Even when faced with the truth, you'll find a way to twist it. You fanatics remind me of the far right fringe in politics.

What about the far-left lunatic fringe in politics? If you are taking comparisons in that direction, how about being fair and balanced.
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post #184 of 239
7/19/10 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartBuzz View Post

What about the far-left lunatic fringe in politics? If you are taking comparisons in that direction, how about being fair and balanced.

When you're in the center, you look like you're a big liberal compared to the far right.

The far left in this situation would be the people trying to make this sound like as soon as you pick up an iphone4 you can't make a phone call, no matter what the signal strength is, and so Apple should recall all of them lol
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post #185 of 239
7/19/10 at 12:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

But, you, admittedly don't have the iPhone 4.

So, you have no issues with the iPhone 4 because you can't hold it all!


What you seem to be attempting to do is:

-- take the occasion to denigrate Apple

-- protect us from ourselves, so we don't buy a phone that you feel to be inferior

The first is gratuitous, and the second is condescending-- both are resented as they add cruft that attempts to drown out reasonable discussion of the facts.

.

I did own it for two days before I returned it, which I have stated numerous times in previous posts. I reviewed the unit, testing it's reception broadly throughout 3 of the 5 boroughs of New York City; Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Queens.

I've also exclaimed in those posts that I felt the device was outstanding with the exception of the ... it's been said too many times, has it not?

So there you have it, dick.
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post #186 of 239
7/19/10 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

The reason I can acknowledge that and still say that the antenna is no more problematic that other phones is because the key word is "may". It also may not, and testing indicates that an iP4 may also hold on to signal and calls in low signals areas better than these other phones. So, which phone has the antenna problem? Or is it that they all have issues, some different, some similar, and that the line of the iP4 antenna being particularly problematic simply isn't true. They are all problematic in various circumstances. The only difference is that with the iP4, customers know exactly what those circumstances are, whereas with the others it remains somewhat murky.

What testing indicates an iP4 may hold low signal calls better?

And as to your last sentence, talk about murky.
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post #187 of 239
7/19/10 at 12:09pm
Please Steve, My Droid Incredible works everywhere, any place all the time. My iPhone didn't, It's not how I held it. It's the truth simply stated.
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post #188 of 239
7/19/10 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Have you decided to dumb down your comments in an attempt to at least be annoying if anything else than wrong?

First off, stop ignoring that there's a difference between the light touch of a finger, and the firm grip of a hand.

I'm not ignoring it, nor dumbing down my comments in any way. You're the one trying to exaggerate it by saying, based on the original bar display, that the phone loses all signal. In fact, it loses a predictable amount of signal, which only matters in areas of very weak signal.

This is what this entire discussion is about: your continued attempts to misrepresent the facts in regard to this.

Quote:
Secondly, as far as your deluded logic, look how you tried to make geekdad feel like his story doesn't matter in this discussion, when in fact it does.

In terms of determining the severity of the issue in relation to other phones, no it doesn't, and I've already given sound reasons why.

Quote:
Finally, read how that little topic came up and who brought it up when replying to me. You decided to pounce on it and try to turn it into a discussion, now you're claiming I brought it up. Is it really so hard to stop trying to discuss it? Even when faced with the truth, you'll find a way to twist it. You fanatics remind me of the far right fringe in politics.

Are you not the one who made the specific assertion I referenced? If not, I am mistaken. If so, you are dodging the question and trying to obfuscate it in your response.
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post #189 of 239
7/19/10 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLBluesFan View Post

What testing indicates an iP4 may hold low signal calls better?

For one, the AnandTech testing.
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post #190 of 239
7/19/10 at 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Well I'm sorry, I simply can't believe it. Clearly I have to believe anonymouse when he says there is no issue, and anyone who had an issue only had one because it was pre 4.01.

You're a liar!


(just kidding )


He wasn't kidding-- he was trying to irritate you, the OP-- or both!


For all who are new to AI forums (or haven't visited recently), @Chronster has an agenda! It appears that he wants to clog the thread with posts, irritating as many people as possible. He will alternately take every side of every issue so that he can challenge and offend more people.

If you care, just click on his alias and you can review his posting pattern,

He does not own an iPhone 4-- so what he offers are unsubstantiated [by him] opinions, or parroted opinions of others that suit his need of the moment.

Once this issue passes, @Chronster will return to the shadows to ready himself for the next attack.

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #191 of 239
7/19/10 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by plovell View Post

If you read the press releases etc from the other phone makers, none of them - not one - denies the claims made by Apple.

A very misleading piece of Legal/Marketing work

Yep, your clasic "non denial, denial'.
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post #192 of 239
7/19/10 at 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I'm not ignoring it, nor dumbing down my comments in any way. You're the one trying to exaggerate it by saying, based on the original bar display, that the phone loses all signal. In fact, it loses a predictable amount of signal, which only matters in areas of very weak signal.

This is what this entire discussion is about: your continued attempts to misrepresent the facts in regard to this.



In terms of determining the severity of the issue in relation to other phones, no it doesn't, and I've already given sound reasons why.



Are you not the one who made the specific assertion I referenced? If not, I am mistaken. If so, you are dodging the question and trying to obfuscate it in your response.

We're going in circles, and of course it's because of your inability to follow along. You're like one of those water filled stress balls, where when squeezed, you'll always find a crevasse or opening in the hand to pop out. Once I've squashed one absurd thing you say, you bring something else up. And if I squash that, you return to the other thing.

The 4.01 update will still suffer from the unique attenuation found in the ip4 because of the antenna design, not just how the bars are represented. If you can cause some form of signal loss by lightly pressing the bar with your finger, then it will remain present even after the signal bar algorithm changes. This is where the bumper or case comes in, and where I say the issue ends.

As far as determining the severity compared to other phones, you and others have repeatedly said other phones suffer from the same exact thing, when the reality is it's not exactly the same. Other phones suffer from attenuation, but each is unique in the antenna placement, and how you need to hold it to see the most dramatic results. With the Galaxy S, the antenna was around the bottom. With the Evo, the antenna is up by the in-call speaker, and to show signal degradation, that's where you need to hold it. Unfortunately for the ip4, since the antenna wraps around the whole thing, it's almost impossible not to bridge the connection, and in doing so, if you don't have much signal to begin with, it's enough to push you over the edge into no service.


As to your final comment: No, I didn't make that assertion. I never said they would get to where they are today even though they weren't evolving in any way in that direction. What I in fact did say, and have backed up with evidence, is that manufacturers had touch screen phones with the same kinds of goals in mind (regarding PDA functionality) and therefore from THAT we can assert they would have evolved to where they are today. I'm definitely willing to admit Apple gave the other companies a reason to wake up and get moving a little quicker though.
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post #193 of 239
7/19/10 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

He wasn't kidding-- he was trying to irritate you, the OP-- or both!


For all who are new to AI forums (or haven't visited recently), @Chronster has an agenda! It appears that he wants to clog the thread with posts, irritating as many people as possible. He will alternately take every side of every issue so that he can challenge and offend more people.

If you care, just click on his alias and you can review his posting pattern,

He does not own an iPhone 4-- so what he offers are unsubstantiated [by him] opinions, or parroted opinions of others that suit his need of the moment.

Once this issue passes, @Chronster will return to the shadows to ready himself for the next attack.

.

I'm pretty sure, don't quote me on it though, that, he also hates kittens.
What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
Reply
post #194 of 239
7/19/10 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

He wasn't kidding-- he was trying to irritate you, the OP-- or both!


For all who are new to AI forums (or haven't visited recently), @Chronster has an agenda! It appears that he wants to clog the thread with posts, irritating as many people as possible. He will alternately take every side of every issue so that he can challenge and offend more people.

If you care, just click on his alias and you can review his posting pattern,

He does not own an iPhone 4-- so what he offers are unsubstantiated [by him] opinions, or parroted opinions of others that suit his need of the moment.

Once this issue passes, @Chronster will return to the shadows to ready himself for the next attack.

.

Yes, I invite everyone to review my posting pattern. What you call taking every side with this discussion is in fact taking the rational center road.

So what am I being irrational about? Because it's not enough to say the phone is best with a case for people in low signal? I have to say the issue isn't real, and nobody needs a case?

Reall, Dick, what are you trying to say here? I'm a troll for not taking one extreme position in this discussion?
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post #195 of 239
7/19/10 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

I'm pretty sure, don't quote me on it though, that, he also hates kittens.

I love kittens. Especially with a little rosemary and tarragon mixed in butter. Delicious.
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post #196 of 239
7/19/10 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

We're going in circles, and of course it's because of your inability to follow along. You're like one of those water filled stress balls, where when squeezed, you'll always find a crevasse or opening in the hand to pop out. Once I've squashed one absurd thing you say, you bring something else up. And if I squash that, you return to the other thing.

The 4.01 update will still suffer from the unique attenuation found in the ip4 because of the antenna design, not just how the bars are represented. If you can cause some form of signal loss by lightly pressing the bar with your finger, then it will remain present even after the signal bar algorithm changes. This is where the bumper or case comes in, and where I say the issue ends.

As far as determining the severity compared to other phones, you and others have repeatedly said other phones suffer from the same exact thing, when the reality is it's not exactly the same. Other phones suffer from attenuation, but each is unique in the antenna placement, and how you need to hold it to see the most dramatic results. With the Galaxy S, the antenna was around the bottom. With the Evo, the antenna is up by the in-call speaker, and to show signal degradation, that's where you need to hold it. Unfortunately for the ip4, since the antenna wraps around the whole thing, it's almost impossible not to bridge the connection, and in doing so, if you don't have much signal to begin with, it's enough to push you over the edge into no service.


As to your final comment: No, I didn't make that assertion. I never said they would get to where they are today even though they weren't evolving in any way in that direction. What I in fact did say, and have backed up with evidence, is that manufacturers had touch screen phones with the same kinds of goals in mind (regarding PDA functionality) and therefore from THAT we can assert they would have evolved to where they are today. I'm definitely willing to admit Apple gave the other companies a reason to wake up and get moving a little quicker though.

My reply to this is that I won't even dignify it with a reply, other than to say you have misrepresented all the particulars of every point you have touched on. Sometimes, the best response to bullshit is to simply point out that it's bullshit.
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post #197 of 239
7/19/10 at 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

My reply to this is that I won't even dignify it with a reply, other than to say you have misrepresented all the particulars of every point you have touched on. Sometimes, the best response to bullshit is to simply point out that it's bullshit.

Which I have done for each of your bullshit comments.

Maybe I really am crazy, and my perception of a rational position is wrong, in which case it's out of my control and I'll always be irrational.

Either way, I think I could have taken a far more extreme stance on this issue and you would have treated me in the same regard since it simply is different than yours. Doesn't matter how different, my point of view is just different.
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post #198 of 239
7/19/10 at 12:47pm
....but I just can't resist.

@chronster AND @anonymouse

CAT FIGHT! CAT FIGHT!

Really guys...enough already. Blogging is not supposed to be a contact sport!
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post #199 of 239
7/19/10 at 12:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Do you really think carriers would be charging any less for their plans if they weren't subsidizing phones? The phone subsidies and models of phones they offer are the sole area where they actually compete. They're still going to get as much on the plans as they think the market will bear.

Actually, this is exactly what T-Mobile does. You can choose a subsidized phone plan and pay more per month on a 2-year contract, or choose to pay less per month and have no contract, but you buy your phone unlocked for full price.

I personally like buying the phone outright, unlocked, and not being locked into a contract. With a subsidized plan, the only realistic way to get your money out of it is to always buy the most expensive phone available every two years, whether you want it or not, and sell it on Ebay. You're essentially paying for that most expensive phone with your monthly bill anyway, so you had better get your money's worth.
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post #200 of 239
7/19/10 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

I tested 4 phones in the same locations and the same locations while making and recieving a simple phone call. ONLY the iPhone 4G(iP4) would drop calls based on how it was held. That is my real world expeiences and that is why I switched to the EVO.
I tested iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS and the iP4 and for conext around all smartphones have this issue I tested a HTC EVO.
I test them at my home and around my town (Mesa, Arizona). I could re produce the signal loss issue for the Apple store manager (Chad) near my home. BUT the iP4 was ther only phone tested that would drop call no matter how many bars were displayed or what the signal strength was at the time the test was done. The iP4 was the only one to drop call or lose signal strength. That was my experience based on my normal real world experiences. Now I am not bashing Apple..... I love Apple products and will continue to buy them........

Thanks for answering my post! Though, it was unnecessary, as you answered it several times while being raked over the coals. You get the "AttaBoy" for sticking your guns (and facts) while maintaining your temper.

The "DumbShit" goes to...

The one other thing I will add is that there were a few posts where users had a 3G or 3GS side-by-side with an iP4, in a marginal signal area. One user said he would make the call on the 3GS and the bars would drop, then the 3GS would switch Edge.

He would make a similar call on the iP4 and the bars would drop, and to paraphrase: "the iP4 would really, really try to hold onto the 3G signal! It would never switch to Edge but would drop the call."

It was repeatable!


That sounds to me like a bug in the software that: analyzes signal strength; determines when to handoff from 3G to Edge (or vice versa); actually switches radio signals.

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
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